Support NeoGAF

[Violater]

No? Explain how my comment lead to that deduction.

After you explain how someone bolding and formatting their opinion becomes a PR statement.


On topic I was still holding out hope against all we have heard that there would be some way to achieve BC. I guess I will have to make sure I clear up my backlog before my PS3 craps out.

 

[DeuceGamer]

GPU and CPU seem okish considering it's been 7 years, but the memory configuration for both are fantastic! Sony especially.

Can't wait to see what developers can do with these specs as baseline! Also, what that'll mean for the PC.


Also interesting to note that Durango and Wii U share a similar setup (with Durango being more of everything). Wonder how ports (if any) will hold up?

Anyone want to make an educated guess?

Kinda curious about this as well. I was starting to pick up some parts for a new PC (case, HD, PSU) but think I'm going to wait a bit now. Definitely need to do some more research as my guess is Dev will be taking advantage of more CPU cores now? (hopefully someone with knowledge can explain)

At any rate, I've had a blast with my Wii U and will continue to, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't fully hyped to get either PS4 or Nextbox. I've still not decided which one I'll get, but I'm leaning towards PS4 especially if it has backwards compatibility (even with an add-on which I think was rumored at one point) since I've missed some of the best PS3 games this gen.

 

[KillerTravis]

A lot of posters on GAF have had to endure a very tough generation. They deserve a little excitement for once.

Endure? Why would the next generation be any better? We are already hearing things like preventing used game sales.

 

[R1CHO]

Time to finally buy a 7870/GTX660 i guess.

I like the specs, not monster next gen, but good enough and it should be around that 399€ mark.

 

[sTeLioSco]

It's what they did in that article, they did list the advantages of a console though.

not on the benchmark. they said expect better

 

[SlowRevolution]

No way the PS4 ends up $499, right?

 

[Pistolero]

Going by the rumors, the difference in favor of the upcoming 720 would not be that big, so Sony would not suffer lagging far behind. I'm thinking Xbox-GC difference...

 

[AgentP]

2008 pc gpus already came with gddr5... (though it is nice that there is a whole 4GB of it!)

Ps4 is looking to be equivalent to a mid range 2011 pc, nothing monster about it.
Don't get me wrong, 7970m is a great laptop card, shame they had to gimp and underclock it though.

7970m = ~7850 desktop part.

It could have been a lot worse I suppose, still rather dissapointing to me.
Not nearly powerful enough for even crysis 2 with the dx11 patch at 60 fps.
Seems like we'll get a big enough leap to get out of the resolution and framerate and crappy shadows and lighting ghetto, but not much more than that.

So either we'll get graphics similar to current console ports with pc settings graphics, or we get a graphics leap and are right back at 720 p 20 fps and horribly agressive LOD.

For the "gimped" 7970M (800Mhz and 18CU) vs RSX

RSX 13GT/s
7970M 57GT/s (4.3x)

RSX 4.4GP/s
7970M 23GP/s (5.2x)

PS3 GDDR3 22GB/s
PS4 GDDR5 150GB/s-192GB/s (6.8-8.7x)

Also the APU design means the CPU cores can share data with the GPU much faster. So is this enough for 1080P@60fps?

Well 720P->1080P is 2.25x the number of pixels. 30->60fps is another 2x, so 4.5x the pixles to render in a given amount of time. Seems like Sony is at least aiming for 1080P @ 60fps, maybe 30fps with 3D?

 

[Coolwhip]

Still better than Wii U in any case. If they do end up being for $399 compared to the Wii U's price, it's not going to be good for Nintendo.

Indeed. That's why Nintendo will have to drop the price, but the controller makes that rough.

 

[phosphor112]

It's what they did in that article, they did list the advantages of a console though.

Yes, advantages that aren't realized in BF3 on a laptop (mind you, laptops run less power as well). Hell, the laptop got 60fps 1080p on BF3 with 2gigs of GDDR5 while dealing with the windows overhead.

You should easily expect more on the console front.

 

[spwolf]

PS4 specs aren't pricey at all. It's incredibly well-balanced if they can get decent yields on GDDR5. I'd expect it to retail for around $300-350 for the low end version if true (possibly could cost more if the touch screen controller rumor is true).

then how much should PS3 retail at, $99? $49?

As much as I see, PS3 is $199 for low end specs, so add another $100 and we get all this? Really?

 

[Curufinwe]

No way the PS4 ends up $499, right?

I expect a $399 SKU and a $499 SKU.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

GPU and CPU seem okish considering it's been 7 years, but the memory configuration for both are fantastic! Sony especially.

Can't wait to see what developers can do with these specs as baseline! Also, what that'll mean for the PC.


Also interesting to note that Durango and Wii U share a similar setup (with Durango being more of everything). Wonder how ports (if any) will hold up?

Anyone want to make an educated guess?

That would really depend on how much effort is lavished on them. I don't think the Dreamcast > Xbox idea noted in this thread is a million miles away from what we have. I'd need certain specifics that I'm not privy to in order to know whether it's a bigger, smaller, or possibly closer to a PS2 > Xbox sized gap. It's never required an unbreeakable grip on reality to know that it's nothing like the crazy gap seen this time around.

In real terms, a lot rests on the market; how these two are embraced (or not) and how high Nintendo hitches its skirt. Xbox was seldom really exploited, because there was no reason for it to be the main concern. If Sega decided to downport, say, PDO, there'd have been more than a little bit of corner cutting in order...

 

[Pistolero]

No way the PS4 ends up $499, right?

399$, 449$ for the higher SKU...

Beaten!

 

[FrankT]

I expect a $399 SKU and a $499 SKU.

Same. Though I think costs to produce per unit will be a bit higher than what folks are throwing around.

 

[Azure J]

To think ten or so months ago, these were the kind of specs, RAM amount (2GB GDDR5 instead of 4GB GDDR5) and GPU generation aside (expected 5770 ~ 7770), that I expected from Wii U. :lol

PS4 is looking to be a monster, absurdly affordable, and extremely approachable. Hype justified.

 

[Orayn]

No way the PS4 ends up $499, right?

The base model at that price would be both disastrous and unlikely, but I can see a $500 premium model with a bigger hard drive and maybe a different color scheme or finish to differentiate it.

 

[Baki]

seems like a sensibly designed system but still beastly. so hyped right niw!

 

[King_Moc]

Quoted!!!!!


A million times over, quoted, again and again. This person speaks the truth!!!


This is the EXACT and SINGLE MOST reason anyone who games mostly (or soley) on PC should be super duper excited for new consoles.


The bar will be raised for PC games, finally, after 4-5 long long years of crappy ports.

It's also why any PC gamer with sense wants them to target 720P/30FPS. It'll allow them to create better assets, then PC gamers can run it juiced up to the max.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I expect a $399 SKU and a $499 SKU.

either this or 399/449

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Makes sense... and yet, here we are. What uses up so much RAM?

It's the same reason why Windows 7 requires a GPU and previous versions don't. Visual fidelity and multitasking is a key for next-gen. No one wants to exit a game to access music, audio chat, video chat, browser, skype, background downloads, downloading DLC, etc etc.

Do remember one thing, If developers want additional RAM, OS can be optimized. It has been done in the past, it will be done again. Leaving 512MB is a perfect testing ground to see how many apps will be released and how many can run or will run. Once the maximum consumption rate has been figured out after a few years of great app releases, RAM can be reduced for OS.

I hate when PS3 OS takes so much time doing shit. I hate when it hangs up. I hate that running a dynamic theme slows shit down. I hate that in-game chat was removed not because of Microsoft but because EA wanted Harry Potter to be the next big thing and that OS had to be gimped to ensure a shitty and unoptimized game runs.

 

[Insane Metal]

I'm calling it: 2 Cores + 1 - 1.5GB of RAM for the Durango OS.

On topic: the cpu sounds a little underwhelming, but I'm surprised they are actually using a high end (mobile, but high end) gpu. That GPU + GDDR5 should be able to do MIRACLES on a console. Just wait for it.

 

[Piercedveil]

This is pretty much what I expected. I think $399 could be a good price. Can't wait for the new consoles!

 

[Ding]

So, B3D -> GAF -> B3D -> GAF -> Eurogamer -> GAF, huh? Disappointing. I'm surprised they didn't manage to work the "blitter" speculation in there too.

 

[JonathanPower]

512MB for OS when WiiU has 1GB and Durango will have 3GB?

I don't know why Sony wouldn't add 2-3GBs of slower DDR3 RAM for the OS and keep the 4GB DDR5 RAM open to developers.

Realistically I think we can expect the PS4 to use around 64-128MB for the OS, even less considering the PS3 OS is around 50MB.

 

[Ashes]

I don't know about the controller, but that sku looks £299 to me.

 

[Moosichu]

The 'Weeks' until reveal get me most excited. The hardware means nothing without some software. Lets see what Yosp and the rest of Worldwide Studios have been cooking for the past 2 years.

 

[AgentP]

I expect a $399 SKU and a $499 SKU.

Sounds right. With the PS3 attacking the low end at $199/$249.

 

[Backfoggen]

Time to finally buy a 7870/GTX660 i guess.

I like the specs, not monster next gen, but good enough and it should be around that 399€ mark.

Why not wait till the next gen of graphics cards come out. Sure you'd be able to run next-gen games with those cards but not at 1080p60 with everything maxed out + nice anti-aliasing like you'd expect from a PC game.

 

[Orayn]

Endure? Why would the next generation be any better? We are already hearing things like preventing used game sales.

The things you should be excited about are on the digital side. Developer-friendly hardware, sane licensing, flexible pricing, free updates, and a store that doesn't shove indie games into a ghetto would mean amazing things for both systems.

 

[grimshawish]

Still better than Wii U in any case. If they do end up being for $399 compared to the Wii U's price, it's not going to be good for Nintendo.

Meh 360 got outsold by the Wii in France last year and probably by WiiU in December.

Its not that clear cut, we've known that for a long time now.
We can't know much till these things are shown and their games.

 

[lherre]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

 

[BlackJace]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

Is this one of the inaccuracies?

 

[TriGen]

I read it.


I liked what I read.

.

 

[Spongebob]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

Jeff_Rigby?

 

[Quicksilver4648]

The only thing I can't figure out is why does Durango need 3GB for the OS? I fully understand that when the user is at the dashboard apps and etc. will need the full 8GB to expand and run properly. But, when I am playing Halo 5 I don't need to have Netflix and Internet Explorer running in the background. I only need party voice chat, messages, friends list, and the ability to stream music to be happy. Also, if the rumors are true that the next Kinect will have its own dedicated processor in the hardware then that should mean less drag on the Durango hardware itself. If the Wii U has 1GB of RAM dedicated to the OS and Orbis has 512MB to 1GB I just can't figure out where the other 2GB are coming from.

There are three scenarios I can possible think of:
1. This limit is set early on so that Microsoft has room to breathe for future developments. That leaked PDF from last year might be real and that special VR/AR stuff is a RAM hog or something.
2. Microsoft really likes multitasking. Durango can run the full OS at all times regardless if a console game is even being played. Possible marketing speak: "In less than two seconds the user can switch from playing a game to looking at the Netflix library."
3. This could be something of a soft limit. Meaning, that if you are developing some super powerful game without any Kinect (or whatever) support then you can ask Microsoft for access to an additional 1+GB of RAM. Ex. Call of Duty 12 needs the extra 1GB of RAM to allow for an additional 100 NPC enemies to attack you on the screen. But, the average XBLA developer doesn't exactly need that when developing the next puzzle game.
4. This limit is in place now but could be altered later in the console's life cycle. Microsoft could be playing it safe by mandating that 3GB will dedicated to the OS in 2013 but in 2016 when developers are constantly complaining of restrictions, and the OS ends up never takes up more than 2GB, then Microsoft might push out a major update allocating an additional 1GB for development. After all, it is always possible to give out an additional GB of RAM but not taking an additional GB of RAM back.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Major changes to the OS halfway in the console's lifecycle is unlikely. We also have to take into account that they will be optimizing it with each firmware update so maybe they'll find a way to fit it in. I would be happy with 1GB GDDR5 reserved for the OS, but that really sounds like a waste due to how expensive the memory is. For basic functionalities 512MB is enough in my opinion.

Not saying major changes. But social interactivity might be totally different in 3 years, and if there´s no RAM to keep up with it, Durango will leave it in the dust functionally.

 

[DeuceGamer]

No way the PS4 ends up $499, right?

My guess is it's still up in the air. Especially depending on what comes packed with the console. We also had rumors of a redesigned controller that possibly featured an LCD Touchscreen, BioSensors, etc... Obviously that's going to add to the cost....

My guess is they will have one SKU targeted at ~$400, but we'll see.

 

[Can Crusher]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

I knew it!

 

[Ashes]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

That's what's in the eurogamer article.

edit: You're my last hope iherre.

 

[jett]

If this is the price for either then my mind will be blown.

Unless Sony wants to sudoku again they won't charge more than that.

 

[Baconsammy]

3gb reserved for the os in durango seems unnecessarily excessive. I wonder what it will be used for.

is it too much to hope for that some of that will be used for recording gameplay and uploading clips to youtube?

Doubt they'd use Youtube. Seems like recording video and saving it to their own service would be more beneficial, and controllable for them. And would be another feature to use to sell XBL. Along with the inevitable Skype implementation.

 

[RedSwirl]

I haven't read all 13 pages of this thread, so where does this sit in modern desktop terms?

 

[DodgerSan]

Baseball fan?

WiiU: Miami Marlins
Durango: Los Angeles Dodgers
Orbis: Washington Nationals

Lol, even less of a clue!

 

[FrankT]

I'm calling it: 2 Cores + 1 - 1.5GB of RAM for the Durango OS.

On topic: the cpu sounds a little underwhelming, but I'm surprised they are actually using a high end (mobile, but high end) gpu. That GPU + GDDR5 should be able to do MIRACLES on a console. Just wait for it.

I'll say 1 core and 2GB. We shall see.

 

[BlackJace]

I haven't read all 13 pages of this thread, so where does this sit in modern desktop terms?

A 7970M sits with a 7850-70 apparently.

 

[SneakyStephan]

7900 GT: Pretty much the GPU of PS3 and high end GPU of its time

Geforce 680GTX: Modern high end GPU

There is your answer why we don't get high end GPUs anymore in consoles.

There is a middleground you know.
7970m = 65W peak power
gtx 680 = 170W peak power

They underclocked it and got rid of a bunch of transistors too.

A 100W part would have been more than reasonable.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Oh shit here we go boys.

Fucking MONSTER machines.

I wouldn`t call them monster machines. They are more modest machines.

 

[Radec]

Why are people talking about a mobile gpu?

Dude, where do you work for?

Im curious.

 

[kinggroin]

That would really depend on how much effort is lavished on them. I don't think the Dreamcast > Xbox idea noted in this thread is a million miles away from what we have. I'd need certain specifics that I'm not privy to in order to know whether it's a bigger, smaller, or possibly closer to a PS2 > Xbox sized gap. It's never required an unbreeakable grip on reality to know that it's nothing like the crazy gap seen this time around.

In real terms, a lot rests on the market; how these two are embraced (or not) and how high Nintendo hitches its skirt. Xbox was seldom really exploited, because there was no reason for it to be the main concern. If Sega decided to downport, say, PDO, there'd have been more than a little bit of corner cutting in order...

Thank you for the reply.

It'd be nice if we see situation where a game is developed to the full strengths of each, just to get a better understanding of real world differences.

I'm also starting to feel comfortable staying with my 670 for another year or so.