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[Sblargh]

It's like how leveling on Dark Souls 2 forces you to fast travel to Majula.

On Dark Souls you could level ip at every single bonfire. They removed that on Dark Souls 2.
On Dark Souls 2 you have the option to fast travel to town on every single bonfire. Once there, you speak to an NPC, listen/skip a dialogue, and *then* you level up.

It's exactly the same thing on both games, except on DS2, you waste more time and sit through more loading screens.

Bethesda games already let you carry everything, again, all that stuff on the ground it's yours. There is no enemy guarding it, there is no downside to going back and picking it up. It's already the same game as if you had unlimited inventory, except you waste more time and sit through more loading screens.

 

[Kamina777]

Ugh, this is so depressing. If developers want people to spend more time with their game, they should make the games more fun, not add busy work to keep your play time artificially high.

How is a limit on carrying a vast oart of the game world on your person busy work?

You are constantly asked to make choices in any good rpg, why is it so hard for you to accept that you can't take every suit and weapon you found in the wasteland with you for every single possible situation because its not only defeating the purpose of preparing for battle but it also breaks the game.

 

[Wasp]

So who does companion carry limit work? By overall weight like the player or by number of items?

 

[Stallion Dan]

The game doesn't encourage you to collect any more extra shit than you need. :/ This is obvious given the options you're given when sorting through said shit.

Hoarding crafting items is a player problem, not a game problem. You can't blame the game for such an attitude.

What you need requires too much weight.

It's the same system from FO3/NV, except now you're expected to carry lots of other things too, with no changes to the system to account and help manage this. Of course it isn't gonna work right.

 

[buy teh haloz]

That's a fine opinion to have but the developers of Witcher 3 disagree, and I tend to agree with them.

If you're going to place value on junk materials, players are going to want to collect them. It's the exact same issue Witcher 3 had.

Every item has value, even the shitty amour and guns that Raiders use. Doesn't mean you should pick it up.

 

[MMaRsu]

I don't mind it. I like the rhythm of doing missions/exploring in dangerous territory, then coming back to base for a breather, hang out in one of my settlements, maybe build a bit, tinker with weapons and armor, see if there's any new settlers for me to dress up - and of course unload junk and manage my inventory. I've got dedicated containers where I store potentially useful armor and weapons I don't want to carry around.

With companions there to take stuff when I do get encumbered, it hasn't really been an issue for me since I like returning to base periodically anyway. I've taken the heavy back perks and have a couple pieces of pocketed armor, so I can carry a fair amount before I need to worry about it.

I do find myself in Pipboy menus more than I would like sometimes. The interface in general could definitely be better.

Wait you can dress up settlers?

*heads back to red rocket*

 

[Wickerbasket]

Every item has value, even the shitty amour and guns that Raiders use. Doesn't mean you should pick it up.

Let's put it in simpler terms.

We're using the same system as previous games, except now you're expected to loot and carry more.

Some people are obviously going to have issues with this.

 

[three_muffins]

My rubric for judging game mechanics, applied to encumbrance:

1. Is it challenging? No
2. Is it interesting? No
3. Is it fun? Hell no

1. Yes it is challenging. Thinking about what to pick up, what i need and what could be useful makes the games more challenging to me. Because i have to prioritize.

2. Micromanagement, collecting is interesting. Expecially with the fact that everything can be useful.

2. Yes it is to me. I even like to prioritize the weapons i take with me. Packing a fatman, minigun and hording tons of inventory really breaks immersion for me and being in a fight without the right weapons forces me to improvise. To me that is fun.

 

[dity]

That's a fine opinion to have but the developers of Witcher 3 disagree, and I tend to agree with them.

If you're going to place value on junk materials, players are going to want to collect them. It's the exact same issue Witcher 3 had.

That just means said players are a bunch of impulsive digital hoarders, not that it's any kind of bad game design. It sounds more oike the devs of Witcher 3 gave their players a crutch, they didn't "fix" the situation. It sounds like they made the players go cold turkey on their impluses.

 

[Glass Shark]

It is intended to be like this to add meaningful choice to looting items.

It's a complete illusion. You never have to actually choose. You just have to decide what to carry with you now and what to carry on your second or third fast travel trip back to base.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Honestly the whole encumbrance thing is just a symptom of a larger problem with Fallout and games like it. There are so many systems in place designed to limit what you can do. It's almost like open world games these days are saying "We want you to have fun, but not so fast! You need to unlock all the fun first." But then by the time you make your way through the progression, you've already made it through most of the game and you get less of a chance to use that fun stuff.

I got so frustrated with the game within the first 2 hours that I just opened the console and made myself level 250 so I had full SPECIAL and every perk fully leveled. Then I gave myself a practically unlimited amount of every crafting material so I could make cool guns and armor. Now I'm having way more fun with the game.

I do not understand this at all

Thank you for your insightful rebuttal.

About as insightful as yours. No point in engaging in a circular argument of "at some point you will run out of ammo".

 

[buy teh haloz]

Let's put it in simpler terms.

We're using the same system as previous games, except now you're expected to loot and carry more.

Some people are obviously going to have issues with this.

That is true, they could have tweaked the numbers a bit

 

[Easton Dark]

It's not a player's job to force themselves to play a game in a way they don't enjoy. A good developer can create a game that allows players to play the way the player wants to play it.

In Fallout 4, if you like to carry everything under the sun for no purpose, there are actually perks to help with that. With strong back's max perk, you have almost no downside to carrying everything in the world.

They've given you the ability to play the way you want while not giving you straight up cheats.

What you need requires too much weight.

What do you need so much?

 

[Wickerbasket]

That just means said players are a bunch of impulsive digital hoarders, not that it's any kind of bad game design. It sounds more oike the devs of Witcher 3 gave their players a crutch, they didn't "fix" the situation. It sounds like they made the players go cold turkey on their impluses.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

Their system has stayed the same as previous games, except now you have to carry and loot more stuff, which I think has caused issues for some players.

 

[Garlador]

How is a limit on carrying a vast oart of the game world on your person busy work?

Because more often than not, you have to pause the game, sort through your inventory, travel to a secure location, going through multiple lengthy loading screens, dump what you have, go back, through many loading screens again, just to pick up more useful stuff. It can artificially pad on several extra, boring, unfun, unenjoyable, dull, thoughtless, mundane minutes for no other reason than to waste your time.

There might be some situations where it suddenly matters, but 95% of my time in Bethesda games with encumbrance was annoyance, and I never once felt rewarded or clever for managing my junk in those games. It just wasted my time.

You are constantly asked to make choices in any good rpg, why is it so hard for you to accept that you can't take every suit and weapon you found in the wasteland with you for every single possible situation because its not only defeating the purpose of preparing for battle but it also breaks the game.

As I said before, ammo still is limited, so having every weapon is still useless if that weapon has no ammo. And ammo is weightless anyway, so it takes up no inventory space to begin with so encumbrance doesn't even factor in how many minigun rounds you have on you.

Not all "choices" in an RPG are equal. Some of them interrupt game flow, player progression, and player enjoyment. GOOD choices pull you into the world. Having a flashing "now encumbered" message pop up when you're having a good time roaming the wasteland sucks me OUT of the game; it doesn't drag me into it. It reminds me it's just a game, that the mechanic sucks and is annoying, and that I have to put this epic, awesome fight with a Super Mutant on hold while I organize my clutter.

I do not understand this at all

About as insightful as yours. No point in engaging in a circular argument of "at some point you will run out of ammo".

You haven't once addressed my point and you're deflecting. Ammo is a limited resource in the game, with or without encumbrance, and the challenge of fighting a big monster with limited or no ammo remains with or without encumbrance, and I provided an example of it happening to me in Fallout 3. Ammo is weightless but can be depleted easily, no matter if encumbrance exists or not.

I've played the games BOTH ways. The "challenge" was the same for me.

In Fallout 4, if you like to carry everything under the sun for no purpose, there are actually perks to help with that. With strong back's max perk, you have almost no downside to carrying everything in the world.

You overestimate how much inventory space Strong Back adds. For those that love to craft and craft often, it's still never enough.

Trust me, i'm one of those players that filled up over 500 inventory spaces in Final Fantasy XIV because I actively try and do so much crafting and class changes. I'm one of those players that tries to do a little bit of everything, and that often results in massive amounts of stuff I have in my inventory... but none of it is junk. I use all of it and I use it all often.

 

[dity]

What you need requires too much weight.

It's the same system from FO3/NV, except now you're expected to carry lots of other things too, with no changes to the system to account and help manage this. Of course it isn't gonna work right.

Larger mods and settlement items actually don't require many resources. Settlements provide you with hundreds of free things to scrap too, yay. Unless you're building a large settlement, you really shouldn't be becoming over encumbered all that often if you're actually only getting what you need.

 

[smudge]

It's a complete illusion. You never have to actually choose. You just have to decide what to carry with you now and what to carry on your second or third fast travel trip back to base.

Why do you have to come back to collect it? You will find another or something better later. Of course you get to choose.

 

[Glass Shark]

I do not understand this at all

I didn't always think this way. But I played Dota almost exclusively for a really long time and it kinda rewired my brain in how I think about progression in games. As a result it's hard for me to play a game that has any kind of leveling or similar mechanics without seeing the flaws and cracks in the system.

And when you hack your way to a fully specced character in Fallout 4 in 10 minutes, you realize how much of the game is pointless.

 

[Devilgunman]

If you're going to place value on junk materials, players are going to want to collect them.

No? Just read the previous page. Not everyone is a hoarder. You're given a choice to collect but the game never tells you or encourages you to do so. In fact, the game does the opposite in form of Mr. Codsworth mocking you by saying "Hoarding huh?" every time you mindlessly collecting junks.

Just load the game and look at your supplies now. How many thousands of steels, woods, leathers etc do you have? Ask yourself what you want to do with them and why you should collect more. If your answer is "maybe I would need them later" then you're basically sharing the same mind of every real life hoarder out there.

 

[kavanf1]

I've been playing since launch with "unlimited carry weight" (just modav 2000 or whatever). It hasn't really done any of the negative things people are mentioning to my experience.

Unlimited caps? No... I would still have to go from vendor to vendor constantly just to get a measly 300 caps. That's also a waste of my time. And since it's clear I don't like wasting my time on things that aren't considered fun(back and forth dumping gear), why would I do that for caps? And it's not like you can't do this with a carry weight limit, either. It would just take a little bit longer and require more trips.

My main reason for doing so is the settlement feature. This is the first Bethesda game that I can recall where all of the random bullshit you find actually has a use.

It hasn't made the game less enjoyable, or even "easier" for me, because I'm still playing the game exactly like I would if I had a carry limit, except I'm not making trips back and forth to my settlement. I still constantly run out of ammo in the guns I use, and I still don't have shit for caps. I'm using my perks to help out with that, though, because I actually find that to be a little fun.

I'm so glad on PC I don't have to waste any perks on barely increasing my carry weight limit.

I've been saying the same since the first page...maybe if we repeat it often enough it will sink in. The argument has gone around in circles a dozen times already, and none of the naysayers appear to be paying attention to the reasons given. They seem to prefer challenging not the arguments that have been made, but the arguments they think are being made. Debating people who aren't even willing to read what you say is pointless.

 

[Barzul]

I agree it useless and makes visit sanctuary more than I would like and do all my crafting there because that's where all my junk is. I think the mechanic needs to be changed definitely


Edit: I'm playing on PC and didn't know about the weight mod. First thing I'm doing once I get home. Thank goodness I didn't waste a perk on this

 

[Wickerbasket]

No? Just read the previous page. Not everyone is a hoarder. You're given a choice to collect but the game never tells you or encourages you to do so. In fact, the game does the opposite in form of Mr. Codsworth mocking you by saying "Hoarding huh?" every time you mindlessly collecting junks.

Just load the game and look at your supplies now. How many thousands of steels, woods, leathers ect do you have? Ask yourself what you want to do with them and why you should collect more. If your answer is "maybe I would need them later" then you're basically sharing the same mind of every real life hoarder out there.

They're using the same system as previous games, except now you're expected to loot and carry more.

I actually don't have enough materials to build what I want because I can't carry it all, I always leave tons of stuff behind.

 

[riotous]

It wasn't so bad for me when I got the perks that allow you run and fast travel while encumbered, though obviously thats only viable if you are doing a strength build.

They have that backwards. Those perks should exist for non strength builds.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I didn't always think this way. But I played Dota almost exclusively for a really long time and it kinda rewired my brain in how I think about progression in games. As a result it's hard for me to play a game that has any kind of leveling or similar mechanics without seeing the flaws and cracks in the system.

And when you hack your way to a fully specced character in Fallout 4 in 10 minutes, you realize how much of the game is pointless.

Lol. Come on now.

 

[smudge]

I've been saying the same since the first page...maybe if we repeat it often enough it will sink in. The argument has gone around in circles a dozen times already, and none of the naysayers appear to be paying attention to the reasons given. They seem to prefer challenging not the arguments that have been made, but the arguments they think are being made. Debating people who aren't even willing to read what you say is pointless.

This is why I would be happy with it being optional from the start. Tie it to difficulty, like hardcore mode or whatever.
I like to make choices on what I do loot and what I don't, depending on what I can or can't carry. I understand others don't. Bethesda designed there game this way, of course some aren't going to like it. PC players don't have to live with it. This should be the norm.

 

[-tetsuo-]

In Fallout 4, if you like to carry everything under the sun for no purpose, there are actually perks to help with that. With strong back's max perk, you have almost no downside to carrying everything in the world.

They've given you the ability to play the way you want while not giving you straight up cheats.

You haven't been following the thread. No one wants to put points into that because they want to put points into whatever else they feel is more important. They get into the world and think hey I want to pick up everything I see but it sucks that I get penalized ever at all in this game. Instead of putting points towards allowing me to carry more stuff I am just going to not put points into allowing me to carry more stuff while not changing my playatyle at all and continuing to complain about my lack of being able to carry more stuff.

 

[Easton Dark]

They have that backwards. Those perks should exist for non strength builds.

The idea is you'd be making a trade-off to invest in Strength if you have the need to pick everything up, rather than something like weapon damage perks or such.

You overestimate how much inventory space Strong Back adds. For those that love to craft and craft often, it's still never enough.

But the max perk removes all the negatives of over encumbrance except requiring the quickly-recharging action points to run. The only scenario where that would matter is if you used VATS a lot in combat while over encumbered.

And just to be clear, I'm all for you playing the way you guys want, but acting like the game does nothing to make carrying stuff easier is ignoring a lot of choices.

 

[Kamina777]

Because more often than not, you have to pause the game, sort through your inventory, travel to a secure location, going through multiple lengthy loading screens, dump what you have, go back, through many loading screens again, just to pick up more useful stuff. It can artificially pad on several extra, boring, unfun, unenjoyable, dull, thoughtless, mundane minutes for no other reason than to waste your time.

There might be some situations where it suddenly matters, but 95% of my time in Bethesda games with encumbrance was annoyance, and I never once felt rewarded or clever for managing my junk in those games. It just wasted my time.


As I said before, ammo still is limited, so having every weapon is still useless if that weapon has no ammo. And ammo is weightless anyway, so it takes up no inventory space to begin with so encumbrance doesn't even factor in how many minigun rounds you have on you.

Not all "choices" in an RPG are equal. Some of them interrupt game flow, player progression, and player enjoyment. GOOD choices pull you into the world. Having a flashing "now encumbered" message pop up when you're having a good time roaming the wasteland sucks me OUT of the game; it doesn't drag me into it. It reminds me it's just a game, that the mechanic sucks and is annoying, and that I have to put this epic, awesome fight with a Super Mutant on hold while I organize my clutter.

You haven't once addressed my point and you're deflecting. Ammo is a limited resource in the game, with or without encumbrance, and the challenge of fighting a big monster with limited or no ammo remains with or without encumbrance, and I provided an example of it happening to me in Fallout 3. Ammo is weightless but can be depleted easily, no matter if encumbrance exists or not.

I've played the games BOTH ways. The "challenge" was the same for me.

Who stops in the middle of a fight to deal with anything to deal with clutter? There is downtime all over the game for that, supply lines to make it so all your owned territories share your junk pile and perks that up the weight limit. You are wanting to pretend none of that exists and that the system is flawed to fit some narrative where you aren't a hoarder with OCD.

 

[Enduin]

I'm seriously baffled why so many people are ardently defending the shitty encumbrance system Bethesda has always had in their games, and is now even worse with the new Junk system and overall economy in FO4. Yeah outright removal would be silly, but this is not, and has never been, a good inventory management system. We should have gotten a much better system a long time ago and it has come to a head here due to the major changes to the game's economy and introduction of new crafting/building systems.

Sure a lot of people aren't that imaginative and just call for its removal outright which can be irritating. It's fine to be against that and see it as a watering down of the series. But you cannot dismiss those feeling entirely and blame people for playing the game wrong or having bad habits as if the current system is perfectly fine and well balanced and not its fault at all but theirs. Because that is far from the truth.

You may not like the way in which they articulate their dislike for the system or their "solution" to the problem, but the fact that so many people actively dislike and fight the encumbrance system in Bethesda games, likely more than ever now in FO4, is a sign that the system is not a good one.

Even if they are playing the game wrong it's the developers responsibility to create systems and mechanics that encourage and reinforce the player's behavior in how the game operates. Which is obviously not the case here since so many people still feel inclined to pick up everything and the base carry limits facilitate that a great deal even without the various buffs, mods and perks that extend it further.

The game needs a new system that provides a more immediate and direct impact on the player's loadout and how they choose what weapons, armor and items to bring but also addresses the basic desire of most players to pick up everything around them, now more than ever due to the crafting and settlement mechanics. Just giving players a 200+ pounds to do whatever with is a terrible system. It's functional but very far from good.

 

[PulseONE]

IMO They either need to make junk weightless (but reduce the maximum encumbrance to make up for it) or add a perk that lets you assign a settler to cleanup duty. They go off to any location you've cleared and add all the junk there to your workshop inventory.

 

[Kamina777]

I'm seriously baffled why so many people are ardently defending the shitty encumbrance system Bethesda has always had in their games, and is now even worse with the new Junk system and overall economy in FO4. Yeah outright removal would be silly, but this is not, and has never been, a good inventory management system. We should have gotten a much better system a long time ago and it has come to a head here due to the major changes to the game's economy.

Sure a lot of people aren't that imaginative and just call for its removal outright which can be irritating. It's fine to be against that and see it as a watering down of the series. But you cannot dismiss those feeling entirely and blame people for playing the game wrong or having bad habits as if the current system is perfectly fine and well balanced and not its fault at all but theirs. Because that is far from the truth.

You may not like the way in which they articulate their dislike for the system or their "solution" to the problem, but the fact that so many people actively dislike and fight the encumbrance system in Bethesda games, likely more than ever now in FO4, is a sign that the system is not a good one.

Even if they are playing the game wrong it's the developers responsibility to create systems and mechanics that encourage and reinforce the player's behavior in how the game operates. Which is obviously not the case here since so many people still feel inclined to pick up everything and the base carry limits facilitate that a great deal even without the various buffs, mods and perks that extend it further.

The game needs a new system that provides a more immediate and direct impact on the player's loadout and how they choose what weapons, armor and items to bring but also addresses the basic desire of most players to pick up everything around them, now more than ever due to the crafting and settlement mechanics. Just giving players a 200+ pounds to do whatever with is a terrible system. It's functional but very far from good.

How much weight can you carry on your person? Honest question.


I think they're being generous if anything. There are perks that address a lot of what you're complaining about, you'd rather pretend they didn't exist for whatever reason. If you don't like the limits they impose, console command them out or follow the rules of the game and make them less of an issue! Everything has a cost from dialogue choices to what you bring to a battle, its part of every rpg i have eve played as far as carry weight or equip and item limits in jrpgs.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Yes, I fail to understand how removing nearly all challenge and completing all character progression before even playing is something anyone wants.

You haven't once addressed my point and you're deflecting. Ammo is a limited resource in the game, with or without encumbrance, and the challenge of fighting a big monster with limited or no ammo remains with or without encumbrance, and I provided an example of it happening to me in Fallout 3. Ammo is weightless but can be depleted easily, no matter if encumbrance exists or not.

I've played the games BOTH ways. The "challenge" was the same for me.

I did address it. Like I said, it just devolves into a circular argument where it will just continually be stepped back. I will tell you that the deathclaw fight before the fight I encountered, I wouldn't have had a fat man on me to deal with them either. And then you go to the fight before that, or before that. If you can not see how being able to carry all weapons and armor with you at all times doesn't make the game easier, then I don't know what to tell you. You saying you played the other Fallout games like that explains it, actually.

I didn't always think this way. But I played Dota almost exclusively for a really long time and it kinda rewired my brain in how I think about progression in games. As a result it's hard for me to play a game that has any kind of leveling or similar mechanics without seeing the flaws and cracks in the system.

And when you hack your way to a fully specced character in Fallout 4 in 10 minutes, you realize how much of the game is pointless.

I played over 1k hours of DOTA, but an RPG is still an RPG. Even a super stripped down RPG like Fallout 4. Character growth is still a huge part of it, and so is challenge. You effectively removed both of those things from the game and that is something I can never do.

 

[Mossybrew]

Wait you can dress up settlers?

*heads back to red rocket*

I have a dress code in my settlements: dope threads or gtfo.

Just put it in their inventory then equip.

 

[Arulan]

Bethesda's approach to altering game systems is either to massively simplify or straight out cut. There are many changes to the encumbrance system that could make it better, but if history is anything to go by, if they view it as a possible frustration for their mainstream audience, it'll be cut for Elder Scrolls VI.

 

[Timeaisis]

1. Yes it is challenging. Thinking about what to pick up, what i need and what could be useful makes the games more challenging to me. Because i have to prioritize.

2. Micromanagement, collecting is interesting. Expecially with the fact that everything can be useful.

2. Yes it is to me. I even like to prioritize the weapons i take with me. Packing a fatman, minigun and hording tons of inventory really breaks immersion for me and being in a fight without the right weapons forces me to improvise. To me that is fun.

Sure, collecting items and having an inventory limit is challenging. But is the actual mechanic of becoming too slow to move or fast travel after picking up too much check any of those things? I argue that it's not. An inventory limit fills some of the criteria, for sure. But the "encumbrance" state does not. At least to me. It's just frustrating.

 

[Gravy Boat]

How much weight can you carry on your person? Honest question.

Please don't bring realism into a discussion about a game involving mutants.

 

[Garlador]

Who stops in the middle of a fight to deal with anything to deal with clutter? There is downtime all over the game for that, supply lines to make it so all your owned territories share your junk pile and perks that up the weight limit. You are wanting to pretend none of that exists and that the system is flawed to fit some narrative where you aren't a hoarder with OCD.

Not in the middle middle of a fight, per se, but definitely in the middle of enemy territory, surrounded on all sides, with no easy entry or exist strategy. I've been in the midst of enemy territory plenty of times and my concern at this point is surviving... not "gee, I wonder if I should keep this toothbrush? Better manage my inventory while the Super Mutant is distracted".

There is downtime later, but it was inconvenient multiple times before getting there, and not in a "makes the game more intense" sort of way. Just an annoying way. So, yeah, it's a flawed system.

... And hoarding in an RPG is rarely discouraged. "Oh dear, sir, you brought TOO MANY potions and med kits with you into battle! How dare you be so overly prepared!"

Yes, I fail to understand how removing nearly all challenge and completing all character progression before even playing is something anyone wants.

If "encumbrance" is "all the challenge", then that's a hilariously misappropriate emphasis on encumbrance in lieu of actual combat design and player skill.

... Seriously, "encumbrance" is as challenging as it is in Mass Effect. There's no "challenge"... just way too much stuff you can't hold and way too much time dealing with the stuff in your menus.

I did address it. Like I said, it just devolves into a circular argument where it will just continually be stepped back. I will tell you that the deathclaw fight before the fight I encountered, I wouldn't have had a fat man on me to deal with them either. And then you go to the fight before that, or before that. If you can not see how being able to carry all weapons and armor with you at all times doesn't make the game easier, then I don't know what to tell you. You saying you played the other Fallout games like that explains it, actually.

I'm saying I played the games multiple ways. Once with and once without, and never noticed any difference in the challenge of combat. I always used a Fatman when I wanted... I just cut out the boring travel and loading screens needed to retrieve it. I played the games the SAME WAY, only one of them didn't waste my time because I didn't have to backtrack every half hour to get the tool I wanted to use. The ONLY difference was one took more time than the other. That was it.

I played over 1k hours of DOTA, but an RPG is still an RPG. Even a super stripped down RPG like Fallout 4. Character growth is still a huge part of it, and so is challenge. You effectively removed both of those things from the game and that is something I can never do.

If "encumbrance" is the sole solitary means of challenge, as you claim, then it's a poor mechanic and poor use of "challenge" that doesn't rely on player skill or player experience.

Again, it's like Mass Effect's limited inventory. I never noticed the challenge ever changing based on whether I had more weapons or less because the actual combat was still governed by so many other factors that inventory restrictions were negligible in terms of game challenge... as they are in Fallout.

 

[Nipo]

Y
I played over 1k hours of DOTA, but an RPG is still an RPG. Even a super stripped down RPG like Fallout 4. Character growth is still a huge part of it, and so is challenge. You effectively removed both of those things from the game and that is something I can never do.

I don't see encumbrance as a challenge just a burden.

A challenge in video games, to me, is something that takes skill to overcome. A burden is something that just takes time. Encumbrance just burdens you with walking slow or making multiple fast travel trips there is no skill involved in it.

 

[Enduin]

How much weight can you carry on your person? Honest question.


I think they're being generous if anything. There are perks that address a lot of what you're complaining about, you'd rather pretend they didn't exist for whatever reason. If you don't like the limits they impose, console command them out or follow the rules of the game and make them less of an issue! Everything has a cost from dialogue choices to what you bring to a battle, its part of every rpg i have eve played as far as carry weight or equip and item limits in jrpgs.

Did you even read what I wrote?

200 is laughably high and that's the minimum. It's a joke. The fact that ammo and stims are weightless is a joke, most of the weights of items are a joke. Either terribly inflated or super deflated. The amount of stuff you can carry is ridiculous, which is exactly why so many people get frustrated when they have 1000 items in their inventory yet they suddenly can't pick up anything more.

It's a terrible system that is not challenging at all in any meaningful way but just frustrating for most players. And they don't look beyond how they are playing and how the game works so their immediate solution to the problem is to remove the obstacle and not to come up with new systems or solutions that actually reintroduce the intended challenge and thoughtfulness players are supposed to take when loading out their character and choosing what items to pick up.

As I said in another post, and one or two other people mentioned it before then, but creating a system where you instead collect items into a separate loot pool that is then picked up by your settlers would be an interesting system. It would allow them to dramatically reduce the carry weight players have so they only focus on the items they immediately need and then let their settlers actually collect everything else they've picked up. Creating a delay in when that loot is collected based on how much there is, the proximity and size of the nearest settlement adds further weight to this system. This makes sense in world and adds further incentives to build up and develop settlements around the wasteland.

Actively having the player pick up and haul all this shit around is beyond stupid.

Another way would be to simply apply encumbrance to what you are wearing and using like PoE does and plenty of other games do. The player would have a sensible weight limit based on their STR that would allow them to equip a certain amount of armor, weapons and consumables while the rest of the inventory just exists with no weight affect. When combat is initiated your inventory is locked out. So you only have access to what is immediately equipped by your character. So you have to choose what chems, foods and weapons you want accessible to you and how much. Just because you have 100 weapons on you won't help once the fighting actually starts. It's not perfect but it's better.

There are plenty of other ways they could go and change how inventory works and encumbrance works that would do a better job of making players think about what they have on them and what they pick up, while alleviating the player's desires to pick up everything in the world.

 

[Glass Shark]

Lol. Come on now.

It's true, though. It lets me skip over the boring and tedious parts like avoiding radroaches and bloatflies while getting to the meat of the main story or the more interesting side quests.

Despite the improvements made from its predecessors, the combat in Fallout 4 is still not all that good or interesting. What's interesting is exploring the world and the stories within it. And when I don't have to constantly worry about whether I'm going to be ambushed while I explore a new corner of the world, I have more fun.

There are plenty of other ways they could go and change how inventory works and encumbrance works that would do a better job of making players think about what they have on them and what they pick up, while alleviating the player's desires to pick up everything in the world.

This is my main problem. Everyone assumes that we all just want to remove encumbrance and make a dumbed-down game for babies. But that's not the case at all. I would appreciate a system that actually provided interesting choices and challenge. But the current system is just dumb. It was dumb in the previous two games, and it's even dumber now that they've added craftable junk.

Include a system that is meaningful or don't include one at all. Don't go halfway and present the illusion of challenge or meaning.

 

[potatohead]

What you need requires too much weight.

It's the same system from FO3/NV, except now you're expected to carry lots of other things too, with no changes to the system to account and help manage this. Of course it isn't gonna work right.

That's a fine opinion to have but the developers of Witcher 3 disagree, and I tend to agree with them.

If you're going to place value on junk materials, players are going to want to collect them. It's the exact same issue Witcher 3 had.

Let's put it in simpler terms.

We're using the same system as previous games, except now you're expected to loot and carry more.

Some people are obviously going to have issues with this.

That is true, they could have tweaked the numbers a bit

Yup.

Anyway, I really don't see why people are so upset about this.

Isn't this why Fallout and WRPGs and PC games in general are so fun to mod? We can enjoy the base gameplay, but we can also add our own spice to the basic gameplay as well in a way that we like better.

Isn't that.... I dunno... a good thing? Even a GREAT thing? Lmao.

Why everyone get so pissed off because people enjoy the same game in a slightly different way?

Encumbrance is only one element of the Fallout experience. Why everyone get so pissy at each other just because we play the same game a bit differently?

The funny thing is a game like Dark Cloud in 2001 had similar mechanics to base-building as Fallout 4 does. Except that none of the base building items require any storage capacity on your character (and on top of that the inventory system is much, much more lenient.....)

Is Dark Cloud more dumbed down in that way? You could say.

I prefer that method in Dark Cloud and prefer it in Fallout 4. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, it's all down to play style and preference.

But then I could say Fallout 4 is "dumbed down" because Dark Cloud has weapons and armor degradation, and Fallout 4 does not.

But neither is the case. See how stupid that is? It could go both ways. They are just different games, and can be played differently, and no one has to like ALL the aspects of Dark Cloud, and neither does anyone have to like ALL the aspects of Fallout 4.

Are we ALL in essence playing Fallout 4 wrong because there is no weapons degradation? NO. Some may prefer it. Some may not. Some may even prefer varying degrees of it.

The important thing is how each person plays is it FUN to THAT person, not that anyone forces anyone else to play the game they don't want to.

 

[studyguy]

Removed encumberance instantly going into the game.
The UI is clumsy enough to the point I don't want to deal with it more often than I have to using AI partners to trade junk to offload weight.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I never claimed encumbrance was the challenge. I said that it is part of your meaningful character choices, and requires you to build towards it. Leveling yourself to 250 and getting all the perks 10 minutes into the game is what removes all the challenge. You are just an unkillable god right from the start.

 

[Kamina777]

Did you even read what I wrote?

200 is laughably high and that's the minimum. It's a joke. The fact that ammo and stims are weightless is a joke, most of the weights of items are a joke. Either terribly inflated or super deflated. The amount of stuff you can carry is ridiculous, which is exactly why so many people get frustrated when they have 1000 items in their inventory yet they suddenly can't pick up anything more.

It's a terrible system that is not challenging at all in any meaningful way but just frustrating for most players. And they don't look beyond how they are playing and how the game works so their immediate solution to the problem is to remove the obstacle and not to come up with new systems or solutions that actually reintroduce the intended challenge and thoughtfulness players are supposed to take when loading out their character and choosing what items to pick up.

As I said in another post, and one or two other people mentioned it before then, but creating a system where you instead collect items into a separate loot pool that is then picked up by your settlers would be an interesting system. It would allow them to dramatically reduce the carry weight players have so they only focus on the items they immediately need and then let their settlers actually collect everything else they've picked up. Creating a delay in when that loot is collected based on how much there is, the proximity and size of the nearest settlement adds further weight to this system. This makes sense in world and adds further incentives to build up and develop settlements around the wasteland.

Actively having the player pick up and haul all this shit around is beyond stupid.

Another way would be to simply apply encumbrance to what you are wearing and using like PoE does and plenty of other games do. The player would have a sensible weight limit based on their STR that would allow them to equip a certain amount of armor, weapons and consumables while the rest of the inventory just exists with no weight affect. When combat is initiated your inventory is locked out. So you only have access to what is immediately equipped by your character. So you have to choose what chems, foods and weapons you want accessible to you and how much. Just because you have 100 weapons on you won't help once the fighting actually starts. It's not perfect but it's better.

There are plenty of other ways they could go and change how inventory works and encumbrance works that would do a better job of making players think about what they have on them and what they pick up, while alleviating the player's desires to pick up everything in the world.

"Actively having the player pick up and haul all this shit around"

No. You choose to "haul that shit around". I choose to store it in a settlement after each major run, remembering AID takes up space as well and retrieve what i need, med, weapon an dgear wise when I need it.

Locking me out of the weapons I am carrying on my persob when a battle starts is an asinine idea.

 

[Enduin]

"Actively having the player pick up and haul all this shit around"

No. You choose to "haul that shit around". I choose to store it in a settlement after each major run, remembering AID takes up space as well and retrieve what i need, med, weapon an dgear wise when I need it.

Locking me out of the weapons I am carrying on my persob when a battle starts is an asinine idea.

I don't do anything. I only carry what I need and pick up what I need and dump it back at base immediately. That doesn't change the fact that I'm aware the current system isn't good.

And "haul that shit around" was in reference to having the player carry all their junk and resources when we have a dozen settlements under our control and people within that could do it for us. So it makes more sense to delegate the actual hauling of materials back to base to them and not all on us. We explore the world, deal with enemies and other dangers and sift through the rubble. Let them come pick it up and haul it back to our home.

Being able to carry around 20 different assault rifles is also asinine. As is being able to pause the game indefinitely to look through your inventory to select a new weapon or to use a stimpack or eat a bunch of food or use a bunch of chems. Forcing the player the choose a specific loadout and then forcing them to stick to when combat starts is far from crazy given every other mechanic in the game.

 

[Garlador]

I never claimed encumbrance was the challenge. I said that it is part of your meaningful character choices, and requires you to build towards it. Leveling yourself to 250 and getting all the perks 10 minutes into the game is what removes all the challenge. You are just an unkillable god right from the start.

I modded out encumbrance and died just fine plenty of times. Even then, if someone else wants to be an unkillable god, so what?

There are other more interesting, more meaningful character choices and abilities to work towards building.

There's a huge difference between "I'm going to level myself to max level with all abilities and be an unkillable god" and "I just want to hold another spoon".

 

[Glass Shark]

I never claimed encumbrance was the challenge. I said that it is part of your meaningful character choices, and requires you to build towards it. Leveling yourself to 250 and getting all the perks 10 minutes into the game is what removes all the challenge. You are just an unkillable god right from the start.

I just don't understand how it is meaningful in the context of the rest of the game. Fast travel and the persistence of dropped items remove its meaning. There is no risk to dropping a really valuable item or putting it in a chest and just coming back to get it later.

Once again, small tweaks to the system could make its inclusion worthwhile. But it's barely a system at this point. It just pretends to be.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I modded out encumbrance and died just fine plenty of times.

There are other more interesting, more meaningful character choices and a abilities to work towards building.

There's a huge difference between "I'm going to level myself to max level with all abilities and be an unkillable god" and "I just want to hold another spoon".

Well you are combining my conversations with 2 separate people. My comments on challenge were directly in response to the poster who said they maxed level and perks when he started the game.

I just don't understand how it is meaningful in the context of the rest of the game. Fast travel and the persistence of dropped items remove its meaning. There is no risk to dropping a really valuable item or putting it in a chest and just coming back to get it later.

Once again, small tweaks to the system could make its inclusion worthwhile. But it's barely a system at this point. It just pretends to be.

It is as meaningful as any other character choice because you are spending the same points you use to level other things. In the context of the game, people complain about not being able to carry more stuff and these stats and perks allow you to carry more stuff. The correlation is direct. Having to pick up, carry, and store every thing you come across is on the player and he/she is making the choice to spend his time going through the process to do that, and then complain about it. That isn't the fault of the game, it is the fault of the player. You can just as easily NOT pick up every single thing you come across and suffer almost no repercussion.

And of course it is a system, lol. Your character can carry x amount of weight. Everything you pick up has a listed weight. It is quite a simple system.

 

[HundredEyeMonk]

Pack Brahmin DLC incoming I hope

 

[Garlador]

Well you are combining my conversations with 2 separate people. My comments on challenge were directly in response to the poster who said they maxed level and perks when he started the game.

And.... so what? A lot of people like cheat codes and being all-powerful in their game worlds.

What's the harm in that? Games used to have those cheats available in countless games during the "golden age".

Or am I playing StarCraft "wrong" when I typed in "POWER OVERWHELMING"?

You don't understand because you don't enjoy it... but someone ELSE enjoys it greatly. They enjoy it because it's a power-trip, because it makes the game less stressful and more fun, where they can prioritize things like story, exploration, and other game mechanics instead of just combat or menu organization, where after a long hard day at work in the office, it's good to come home and be in charge and in control of SOMETHING and games have always been great at providing that avenue.