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Eurogamer: Why I'm tired of Fallout 4 encumbrance

Pompadour

Member
I kind of want more encumbrance, sort of. I want you to have to construct holsters to hold specific weapon types, kind of like Far Cry, that would appear on your character. Maybe make a more realistic backpack that you wear, like in The Last of Us.

I'm ambivalent about this because as dumb as I feel it is that my guy can carry 20 different guns on his jumpsuit-clad body, the over encumbered thing does annoy me and my solution would only make it worse.
 
Nah, the guy just doesn't know how to use companions to carry your shit

They are basically glorified caddies

The problem is he apparently wants to literally never go to a settlement to unload his stuff.

Use your companions, people. They carry a shitton. If they're encumbered as well guess what? You have too much shit and need to unload at a settlement. If you practice any kind of judgment at what you're picking up you shouldn't have to unload both you and your companion for several hours at a time.
 
Scrapper.
Meh, only applies to weapons.

Unfortunately there is nothing but steel in a car.

The mechanics are not perfect. Why do we have to play the game.the way it is only originally designed as?

Isn't that the exact opposite of what modding games is about? Should we no longer have mods?

A mod for having no carry weight is just as legitimate as a mod that makes you only able to carry a few weapons at once or weight the ammo.

It's like people hate mods all of a sudden, I thought this was the strength of PC and Fallout kind of games? To play games in the exact way we want?

I made my inventory limit 500 weight when I got to level 11 and I never looked back. I feel I can move items around, and store and sell, and have so much more fun in the game this way.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Git Gud.

Seriously of all the things wrong with the game and of all thinks I can think of to nip pick about a weight limit isn't one of them.

1-Kill your hoarding tendencies
2-Invest into to the Strong Back Perks
3-Mod some Armor Pieces with the Deep Pockets Mod
5-Get used to looking alot into the menu since this is an RPG after all.

Maybe Bethesda should include a "Casual Mode" with Unlimited Ammunition,No weight limit,10 in all SPECIAL Stats,and locked into the Easy Difficulty.

/s
 
It really isn't a problem. Not everyone wants everything completely dumbed down and handed to them.

Then make it smarter and make the carry weight 100 lbs. And it can never change! Less dumberer!

You can only carry a few weapons. You can't quick swap between 12 weapons actually, that's too dumbed down. I should have to go into my inventory to find my weapon.

And you need a backpack to carry extra weapons.

Where do I store my weapons now anyway? Under my arms? In my fat folds in my stomach? Maybe they are attached to my big muscles?

OMG Fallout 4 is already so dumbed down for the masses, please get me a tissue please, I'm so sad... QQ
 

MasterShotgun

brazen editing lynx
I like encumbrance as an idea, but I think it could be implemented better. Having a pencil all of a sudden bringing you to a crawl is silly.

My idea would be to set two weight limits. Passing the first limit would gradually slow you down, but you could still fast travel. Your walk/run speed would scale based on how much you're carrying while you're between the two limits. The second limit would function like normal by removing fast travel, but it wouldn't be so jarring since you're already slow by that point.
 

Haunted

Member
It really isn't a problem. Not everyone wants everything completely dumbed down and handed to them.
I'm sad to see that Fallout has removed so many RPG elements that people have to choose inventory fucking management of all things as their hill to die on now. :(
 

Tagyhag

Member
It really isn't a problem. Not everyone wants everything completely dumbed down and handed to them.

I get what you're saying, but when it comes to Fallout 4, the game is the most dumbed down game in the series.

The encumbrance is kind of like a weird remnant from back when the game was more complex.

They should have either worked on the system to go more with the game, or made the game have more depth.
 
It really isn't a problem. Not everyone wants everything completely dumbed down and handed to them.

Are you really dumbing anything down by removing such a strict weight limit, though, or are you merely removing a frustrating aspect of the game that adds nothing of value?
 

JoeMartin

Member
I do two things with every long, story driven RPG I play.

The first is to set it at the hardest difficulty, because I do enjoy a mechanical challenge.

The second is to console/cheatengine myself infinity money and carry weight, because I have to worry about managing assets and money and their consequences in real life, I don't need the hackneyed tedium of them in my escapism as well.
 
I like encumbrance as an idea, but I think it could be implemented better. Having a pencil all of a sudden bringing you to a crawl is silly.

My idea would be to set two weight limits. Passing the first limit would gradually slow you down, but you could still fast travel. Your walk/run speed would scale based on how much you're carrying while you're between the two limits. The second limit would function like normal by removing fast travel, but it wouldn't be so jarring since you're already slow by that point.

Or you could just scale the degree of slowing.

I like that idea.

But then you would also have to determine when the scaling of slowing starts, and how fast or exponentially the scale of slowing increases as you collect more equipment.

But even with this, people would argue "but that limit is too low, or that limit is too high."

Even though people like different stuff and should stop telling others how to play games :D

I think encumbrance is fine.
The problem is games that throw 45802350 tons of loot at you. Like F4 or W3.

Yep, this is why it is an issue for SOME players (including me) in Fallout 4.

The game simply has systems in placed the require you to hoard items to build up enough goods to manage your towns.

If the game did not ask you to need all these materials, I would not need to collect them.

In Morrowind I never had a problem with encumbrance. Why? Because I wasn't ever building a town.

But in Fallout 4 I am building a town and I need the raw materials.... so having the same encumbrance mechanics are simply not going to do it for me.

For my Fallout 4 game, my player needs to be able to hold more stuff, because the game is asking me to build more stuff with those items!
 

kavanf1

Member
The problem is he apparently wants to literally never go to a settlement to unload his stuff.

Use your companions, people. They carry a shitton. If they're encumbered as well guess what? You have too much shit and need to unload at a settlement. If you practice any kind of judgment at what you're picking up you shouldn't have to unload both you and your companion for several hours at a time.

If you can go to a single location and leave it overencumbered, then that's a problem.
 
Edge had this wonderful interview a while back about Sam Houser. I don't remember if it was for GTA4 or GTA5, but Sam was going on about how (he) had argued with the team for GTA3 that he wanted the cars to have a certain amount of gas, and that all players would have to tank their cars at a gas station inside the game.

It would add to the randomized sensation that sometimes you would rob the wrong car- low on gas, and that would make a bad situation worse, in the best luck/unlucky fashion that games like GTA is known for.

But the rest of the team disagreed and the feature never came. But I often think about that- What could have been for GTA if obligatory gas filling was a part of the experience. Checking how much fuel there was left would be important for certain missions, some missions would make you prefer a bike, or avoid big cars that drained quickly.


There is a argument for that you respect the world more. Oblivion was ruined for me because it had the worst Instant Travel System I have ever seen in a game. Unlike Guild Wars, which popularized the idea that you had to DISCOVER a location (a town, outpost, whatever) before you could instant travel to it, Oblivion let you walsh instantly to unexplored places.

Thing is, you could choose not to do that, but you want to do it, because not doing it is a handicapped waste of time. Oblivions world is a randomly generated land mass that run on speed tree. it is boring, and I cannot deal with the shitty shallow combat system. I couldn't help myself from teleporting everywhere.


Sometimes, to feel the size of the world or the impact of dying, or the consequences of wanting to do something (like turning an entire town into a personal fortress like in Fallout) there needs to be a certain amount of... I don't want to say tediousness, but some sort of obstruction. Because if everything is instantaneously, you lose interest. The world you're playing in becomes more like Second Life. There is no game, there is no "goddamit". It's more like playing a devkit were everything is perfect, and for some strange reason, like with a lot of other aspects of the human experience, we seem to work best when we mix the sour with the sweet. Too much sweetness, and it our taste buds are dulled and we become dissatisfied. Or we want more and more sweetness due to the malleable nature and constant search for novelty.



TL;DR- Sometimes we need obstructions inside games to make it feel like it is an activity being done. There is something lost in the process when you only have to press a Button (context sensitive actions) and the game does the thing for you. Ubisoft is infamous for this. Besides the small element of timing, PoP(Warrior Within started the trend) and Assassins Creed Combat is about pressing a button and seeing the character execute someone, or wall jump or do the thing. The gameplay itself is being removed from the player, as it is easier to build a game were you press a button and it do the whole thing for you.


In movie contexts, the equivalence would be the difference between the old indiana jones movies and the new one. In the old ones, Indy had to spend a lot of time even furthering the plot. a 5 minute scene is dedicated to him exploring a church, pressing stones, tapping secret doors, looking at sun beams, just to open a door.
In the new Indy movie, he goes over to a door, presses a button, and is instantly rewarded with crazy CGI scenes.

The point is, that be it in game or film, we want a build up. When we watch a character or play a character, we often mimic and feel as they do. They misunderstand when they put in QTE and Context sensitive actions everywhere. That is not the players doing. There is a unsatisfying small level of interaction.
 

Tsukumo

Member
It's one of the things I like the most about the game. Scrapping is for me one of the greatest reason of addiction to this game: learning what's useful and what isn't, taking thirty minutes to scavenge the first abandoned location and FIVE after you know what to look for and where to look for. Getting excited everytime I see a globe or a fan. Drowning in radiation to get that nuclear material.
Do I keep the vanilla launcher for consistent god-mode results, or make way for these two legendaries I just found?
It's part of the lore and it's quintessential to the unique feel this game has. I'm not rushing to finish this game: if it's going to take me six months, so be it.
No fast travel, no cheats, no glitches. Only war. Only war and Doge and Diamond City Radio.
 

Hindl

Member
I think encumbrance is fine.
The problem is games that throw 45802350 tons of loot at you. Like F4 or W3.

This is the big issue. One of the main appeals of Bethesda games, the thing that helps people overlook their issues, is the ability to interact and potentially pick up every object in the world. If you are going to do that, then don't have a dumb system that actively discourages you from doing that
 

MrDaravon

Member
That seems more like a problem with how poorly the game's systems are explained than an inherent problem with how crafting is done. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that how settlements and inventory are handled is perfect as there's many things that could be done to improve the experience, but removing the weight limit would absolutely break the game. After all, the entire village building aspect is pretty self-directed in terms of what you want to do outside of the requirements for quests and if that's something that's particularly valuable to you I don't see why that's not something that can be factored into to a character build in the same way that dialogue or VATS is. No one complains about the weight limit in Minecraft.

Yeah I'm not suggesting they remove the weight limit; in Fallout 4 really my only issue with the weight limit is specifically junk items and I've seen multiple suggestions in this thread on how they could alleviate it. Bottom line is that they made junk items useful now, but did literally nothing else to accommodate this huge shift in what they expect you to pick up. I never really had problems with encumbrance in Fallout 3/NV besides the usual occasional annoyances.

I don't have a problem with encumbrance in games, at least in theory. It's just handled particularly badly in Fallout 4, especially over previous games.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Then make it smarter and make the carry weight 100 lbs. And it can never change! Less dumberer!

You can only carry a few weapons. You can't quick swap between 12 weapons actually, that's too dumbed down. I should have to go into my inventory to find my weapon.

And you need a backpack to carry extra weapons.

Where do I store my weapons now anyway? Under my arms? In my fat folds in my stomach? Maybe they are attached to my big muscles?

OMG Fallout 4 is already so dumbed down for the masses, please get me a tissue please, I'm so sad... QQ


This whole crafting system and no way to make backpacks etc, what a missed opportunity.

That and making weight of equipment more important and weight on junk less important.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
If you think encumbrance is a fun and realistic mechanic why not go all the way and have ammo be weighted? Not like ammo is weightless irl.

That's what I'm saying. There's so much unrealistic shit in this game, so why draw the line at circumventing the already wildly unrealistic carry weight?

Furthermore, maybe if the game had 1 second loads during fast travel, I'd deal with it. But these ridiculous loads made me say fuck it, 5000 carry weight it is.
 
I stopped playing because of this.
Was my first Fallout and the game just felt like a hoarding simulator. Junk everywhere.

Alot of you like that, and I don't have a problem with that, but it's really not for me.
 
Uh, no. The game would be trivially easy with no encumbrance.

Maybe they should have a "baby's first fallout" mode where the characters constantly mock you for carrying thousands of pounds of items and items are randomly dropped behind you as you play.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity

I've been found out

I'm sad to see that Fallout has removed so many RPG elements that people have to choose inventory fucking management of all things as their hill to die on now. :(

I have to hold on to something. I am fully expecting chest high walls everywhere in Fallout 5.


edit: Guys my point is, the weight limit is one of the only things restricting me in the entire game at this point. I went from not liking it at all as an RPG to accepting that it is just a shooter now basically, and enjoying the game. I already do things like use any gun I pick up very effectively when I am 100% built for melee. The game just tells me yes at every turn. I need something to tell me no along the way. The game is already easy enough as it is and I am playing on Very Hard.
 
I would also be up for this. But as I said earlier: there should also be an option to radio/throw a beacon for a caravan to pick up your stuff and take it back to the settlement.

Ideally the caravan would be affected by raiders, hazards, etc. You would have to either make sure they're well trained/armed or that they have enough numbers to survive attacks. It would add what I think would be an interesting strategy layer to solve this issue.

Also, trader caravans would take time to go pick up your stuff and bring it back, which means they would leave your settlement running with a smaller crew (or unprotected) so you also have to weigh that.

I think this is a cool idea (and I hope someone mods it in) but honestly it isnt' that much different than how I play the game already. I'm generally anti-fast travel so the whole point of getting Settlements for me is to essentially create a new staging point for each area of the game. I get a new settlement, set up some rudimentary defences to keep raiders at bay, set a supply line there and then that settlement becomes my go to location for dropping off my my stuff while exploring or questing in that area.
 
After about 3 hours I used the command console to change my inventory to 5000. The game just asks you to carry too many things too often for it to just be an annoying thing.

Wasting time to go back to a settlement to drop off things sucks. Armoring and giving weapons to settlers on top of thatthat, forget about it.
 

Mivey

Member
Isn't this more of an argument that Bethesda games in general have shitty inventory interfaces? One of the reasons SkyUI is probably the most useful mod for Skyrim by a gigantic margin.

Funny when you realize they have been making these kinds of loot-focused games for more than 20 years, but are so obsessed in their "streamlining" that they continuously regress in terms of functional UI.
 
Edge had this wonderful interview a while back about Sam Houser. I don't remember if it was for GTA4 or GTA5, but Sam was going on about how (he) had argued with the team for GTA3 that he wanted the cars to have a certain amount of gas, and that all players would have to tank their cars at a gas station inside the game.

It would add to the randomized sensation that sometimes you would rob the wrong car- low on gas, and that would make a bad situation worse, in the best luck/unlucky fashion that games like GTA is known for.

But the rest of the team disagreed and the feature never came. But I often think about that- What could have been for GTA if obligatory gas filling was a part of the experience. Checking how much fuel there was left would be important for certain missions, some missions would make you prefer a bike, or avoid big cars that drained quickly.

The first Mafia game has this in 2001, and so does the second Mafia game.

And it's something I would enjoy in GTA actually.

But thankfully, there is a PC version, and I'm sure someone could mod this in :D

If they haven't already....

The joy of people playing games the way they want to play them.... and yet people want to hate on others because they want to play their own fantasy a little differently.

So sad lmao.

This whole crafting system and no way to make backpacks etc, what a missed opportunity.

That and making weight of equipment more important and weight on junk less important.

That would be a great idea, I would mod my game to have these features if I could.

I can build a giant house made of steel from scratch using scraps of steel that I smelt from cars using my smelter in my back pocket.....

But I can't make a backpack, lmao so realistc 10/10 RPG mechanics! :D
The point is, that be it in game or film, we want a build up. When we watch a character or play a character, we often mimic and feel as they do. They misunderstand when they put in QTE and Context sensitive actions everywhere. That is not the players doing. There is a unsatisfying small level of interaction.
I absolutely agree with you. There is a lot to be said about the tension that game systems offers.

That said some of us may not want to experience the game in this way.

Some of us want to play on Easy mode, some on Hard mode.

Some of us have poor reflexes, or are disabled, and we need a slower game. Some of us don't have as much time to play, so we need the game to move forward faster.

We do not all need to subscribe to the same game experience, just because someone else does. It's OUR game, we bought it, we decide how to have fun with it.

Isn't a game all about having fun, having our OWN experience? That is what an interactive medium is about no?

We should have the choice to abide by those rules or not, just like we have the choice to spoil a movie scene or not.

It's all an experience for ourselves, to enjoy how we want it.

It's our own purchase, we should get to play as we wish :D
 

Cirdan

Neo Member
Unless it's inventory tetris like Resident Evil 4/Diablo 2 or really adding to the survival aspect like Stalker/hardcore mode, I don't really care for it. It's just a nuisance most of the time.

That said I don't think it should be removed altogether. Something like a magical button to send crafting materials to the bank with a companion would go a long way already. I kinda like the aspect of "coming home/tavern" from a long trip to unload stuff to rest a little to pace the dungeon running so that shouldn't go away.

Or simply make crafting materials/quest related items always weightless. Never going to sell either of those in any game. Personally don't care for crafting systems in any game though anyway. I prefer finding my loot.
 

KHlover

Banned
Encumbrance is the first thing to go whenever I encounter a game that has such a system. Unless the encumbrance system is extremely strict it adds nothing to the game but tedium. Like...you can already carry a two-digits amount of weapons and a fuckton of other stuff. At that point realism or immersion is out of the window and all encumbrance does is dictate how often you have to go back and sell stuff. That doesn't make the game a better RPG, it just wastes the player's time. No thanks.
 
I'm tired of people wanting Bethesda's games to be even less of an RPGs than they already are.


Got too much in your inventory? Give some to a companion. Put on clothing that buffs strength. Take Buffout. Put more points into Strength. Take the Strongback perk. Take the perk that lets you fast-travel while over encumbered. Stash some stuff and come back for it.

Christ people.
 
Isn't this more of an argument that Bethesda games in general have shitty inventory interfaces? One of the reasons SkyUI is probably the most useful mod for Skyrim by a gigantic margin.

Funny when you realize they have been making these kinds of loot-focused games for more than 20 years, but are so obsessed in their "streamlining" that they continuously regress in terms of functional UI.

Absolutely not what people are complaining about encumbrance for. Why you'd make the jump to that is beyond me.
 
The nice thing about playing on PC is that if you don't like a game mechanic like encumbrance, you can change it and make the game more enjoyable for you.

I could not care less if people consider that cheating. It's like the game is any more difficult with encumbrance. Just... more time consuming.
 
That's what i dislike in any Bethesda game. In Oblivion you would just be unable to move.
I would love to like these games but they are not for me. I tried gaf. But specially Oblivion as downright depressing to me. It doesn't help i'm a sucker for good artdirection.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I don't have an issue with the limit per se. But it is way too cumbersome to find shit that you want to throw away to be able to fast-travel again.

The Pipboy menus just suck in general.
 
Then make it smarter and make the carry weight 100 lbs. And it can never change! Less dumberer!

You can only carry a few weapons. You can't quick swap between 12 weapons actually, that's too dumbed down. I should have to go into my inventory to find my weapon.

And you need a backpack to carry extra weapons.

Where do I store my weapons now anyway? Under my arms? In my fat folds in my stomach? Maybe they are attached to my big muscles?

OMG Fallout 4 is already so dumbed down for the masses, please get me a tissue please, I'm so sad... QQ

I love how all of those changes would both make carry weight more relevant and improve the agency and decision making of the player by forcing them to weigh the positives and negatives of said decisions before acting, by increasing the potential consequences for mistakes.

You just sarcastically made a more compelling video game. And the worst part is, you don't even see it that way, because you personally don't want those player involved decisions.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I'm tired of people wanting Bethesda's games to be even less of an RPGs than they already are.


Got too much in your inventory? Give some to a companion. Put on clothing that buffs strength. Take Buffout. Put more points into Strength. Take the Strongback perk. Take the perk that lets you fast-travel while over encumbered. Stash some stuff and come back for it.

Christ people.

My problem isn't encumberance as much as this game introduced a whole Minecraft subgame that fights against it.

Didn't have an issue with it in the previous games.
 
I'm pretty sure that weight limits and limited inventory space is essentially the worst thing in gaming. The only place it belongs in is a game where it's a significant part of the gameplay, such as resident evil.
 
I love how all of those changes would both make carry weight more relevant and improve the agency and decision making of the player by forcing them to weigh the positives and negatives of said decisions before acting, by increasing the potential consequences for mistakes.

You just sarcastically made a more compelling video game. And the worst part is, you don't even see it that way, because you personally don't want those player involved decisions.

Nope, you're wrong, and this is what you don't understand. I don't want that experience in my Fallout 4 game. YOU want that experience in Fallout 4.

Please, you know, separate the two? Me, not you? Get it?

Not the game everyone wants.

Sorry, try again!

I'm not saying it's not an experience I don't want entirely, but it's not the one I want in this particular game, in this Fallout 4 game.

TLDR:

You're wrong because you're telling others how and what to enjoy. And that opinion will always and forever will be wrong.

I did not say others cannot enjoy the encumbrance in Fallout 4. I only stated that I do not enjoy it. And when I say that, I cannot be wrong :D
 

PARANO1A

Member
Torchlight did it best. Send your companion back to town with your stuff, but you'd lose a combat partner for a few minutes. It was a minor trade off but you felt like you were in control of your inventory.

Fallout 4 really took it to the next level with pack muling though. It's a terrible mechanic when everything has a use and value. I used the console command to add 10000 took my inventory and have no regrets.
 
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