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[DeltaPolarBear]

You don't get it.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of GaaS.
It's just some companies that put predatory business into their GaaS-games.

Without GaaS there wouldn't BE Predatory Business practices. GaaS is what makes it possible to be predatory.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

300k in Japan alone in opening week, about 4x DD2, which we know is at at least 2.5 mil globally.

I know people love hating shit for no reason, but come on guys. Use your mind.

Not to mention Tekken 8 which we know for a fact sold over 2 million, launched a full month before Rebirth.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

SM2 did 10 million in 2 months. Lackluster?

Lackluster? It sold over 10M copies in like 2 or 3 months as a PS5 game only (the biggest PS5 exclusive at this point) and has a metacritic of 90.

Y'all have some weird expectations lmao

It was expected to help push Sony towards 25 million units for the fiscal year and it didn't meet those expectations. They thought the game would have sold better and that is what I mean when I say lackluster.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

It was expected to help push Sony towards 25 million units for the fiscal year and it didn't meet those expectations. They thought the game would have sold better and that is what I mean when I say lackluster.

Source that Spider-Man 2 was expected to do that?

As far as i know what Sony said was they expected there was more people that couldn't buy a PS5 during the previous years...and they completely missed the mark.
Nothing to do with Spider-Man 2.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Without GaaS there wouldn't BE Predatory Business practices. GaaS is what makes it possible to be predatory.

Okay, this is getting silly now.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It was expected to help push Sony towards 25 million units for the fiscal year

And it did. It’s just that 25 million units were a tall order no matter what (Spider-Man would have had to do something most games just don’t do). They still had one of their biggest quarters to date and Spider-Man 2 was also a record breaker!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Source that Spider-Man 2 was expected to do that?

As far as i know what Sony said was they expected there was more people that couldn't buy a PS5 during the previous years...and they completely missed the mark.
Nothing to do with Spider-Man 2.

Source: eyeballs

Sony even said they still thought they get reach their target at the end of the previous quarter. They were clearly banking on Spider-Man. Insomniac had layoffs shortly after.

Many people want to convince themselves that Spider-Man sold as well as Sony hoped, but it simply did not. Whether those were unrealistic expectations or not has nothing to do with it. What does have to do with it is the budget and margins on Spider-Man, a license that they do not own.

 

[mckmas8808]

And it did. It’s just that 25 million units were a tall order no matter what (Spider-Man would have had to do something most games just don’t do). They still had one of their biggest quarters to date and Spider-Man 2 was also a record breaker!

THIS!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And it did. It’s just that 25 million units were a tall order no matter what (Spider-Man would have had to do something most games just don’t do). They still had one of their biggest quarters to date and Spider-Man 2 was also a record breaker!

THIS!

Breaking records doesn't mean you met expectations.

if I make a game and I'm shooting for 18 million copies sold and the game sells 13 million copies, that's not the success that I was looking for.

You have to consider that Spider-Man 2 was heavily bundled and is an extremely expensive licensed game. The profit margin on Spider-Man 2 is significantly slimmer than other first party games.

They said at the end of fiscal quarter 2 that they still expected to hit 25 million units. They didn't revise down their estimates. It was only after Spider-Man 2 failed to shift enough units that they finally backed of the estimate at the end of Q3.

 

[sachos]

I wish we got physical/digital splits.

 

[Elios83]

Breaking records doesn't mean you met expectations.

if I make a game and I'm shooting for 18 million copies sold and the game sells 13 million copies, that's not the success that I was looking for.

You have to consider that Spider-Man 2 was heavily bundled and is an extremely expensive licensed game. The profit margin on Spider-Man 2 is significantly slimmer than other first party games.

They said at the end of fiscal quarter 2 that they still expected to hit 25 million units. They didn't revise down their estimates. It was only after Spider-Man 2 failed to shift enough units that they finally backed of the estimate at the end of Q3.

The 25m target was already unachievable before Spiderman 2 was even released.
The first two quarters were considerably behind target for 25m to happen.
That was admitted by Sony during fiscal reports.

Spiderman 2 did fantastically, a single game can't do miracles, the 25m target was just unachievable without a permanent price cut.
They actually increased the price of the digital with the Slim.
It was also a crazy high target that shouldn't have been set by just betting on covid-like demand to sustain by itself.
Nothing to do with Spiderman 2 and there's zero evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The 25m target was already unachievable before Spiderman 2 was even released.
The first two quarters were considerably behind target for 25m to happen.
That was admitted by Sony during fiscal reports.

Spiderman 2 did fantastically, a single game can't do miracles, the 25m target was just unachievable without a permanent price cut.
They actually increased the price of the digital with the Slim.
It was also a crazy high target that shouldn't have been set by just betting on covid-like demand to sustain by itself.
Nothing to do with Spiderman 2 and there's zero evidence to suggest otherwise.

Conveniently, you are ignoring that Sony still felt they could hit their target before Spider-Man 2 released, meaning that they thought Spider-Man 2 could get them over the hump. It didn't. That tells you everything you need to know about what their expectations for the game was.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Breaking records doesn't mean you met expectations.

if I make a game and I'm shooting for 18 million copies sold and the game sells 13 million copies, that's not the success that I was looking for.

You have to consider that Spider-Man 2 was heavily bundled and is an extremely expensive licensed game. The profit margin on Spider-Man 2 is significantly slimmer than other first party games.

They said at the end of fiscal quarter 2 that they still expected to hit 25 million units. They didn't revise down their estimates. It was only after Spider-Man 2 failed to shift enough units that they finally backed of the estimate at the end of Q3.

I don’t know Sony’s expectations and I’ve not seen anything from them to suggest this. Of course that could have been what they were gunning for, but as I said, that was a tall order for any game to achieve. What happened was Spider-Man helped them have one of their biggest quarters ever and that they didn't achieve such lofty results are secondary to that.

 

[Elios83]

Conveniently, you are ignoring that Sony still felt they could hit their target before Spider-Man 2 released, meaning that they thought Spider-Man 2 could get them over the hump. It didn't. That tells you everything you need to know about what their expectations for the game was.

There's nothing convenient.
It's the simple truth.
Sony admitted in financial results that they were behind target in their first two quarters and right before the holiday season they already issued the warning flag that reaching the 25m target would be really difficult.

You don't cut a forecast until you're put against evidence it's impossible to achieve it, that's common business practice, and you get that evidence after the biggest quarter of the year.

For some reasons you want to blame Spiderman 2 for the missed target but this is just in your mind and it doesn't stand in reality.
The target wasn't met because it was misguided since the beginning, it assumed demand would stay at the January-March 2023 levels and it simply didn't because that kind of demand was a temporary effect of previous shortages and their inability to cut the price of the system permanently, damaged sales during the holiday season, instead of having the disc version at 399$ as it should at this point they increased the price on the digital, that's not how you create demand after 4 years, they completely wasted the opportunity to capitalize on a Slim model.
Spiderman 2 saved their ass in this situation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There's nothing convenient.
It's the simple truth.
Sony admitted in financial results that they were behind target in their first two quarters and right before the holiday season they already issued the warning flag that reaching the 25m target would be really difficult.

You don't cut a forecast until you're put against evidence it's impossible to achieve it, that's common business practice, and you get that evidence after the biggest quarter of the year.

For some reasons you want to blame Spiderman 2 for the missed target but this is just in your mind and it doesn't stand in reality.
The target wasn't met because it was misguided since the beginning, it assumed demand would stay at the January-March 2023 levels and it simply didn't because that kind of demand was a temporary effect of previous shortages and their inability to cut the price of the system permanently, damaged sales during the holiday season, instead of having the disc version at 399$ as it should at this point they increased the price on the digital, that's not how you create demand after 4 years, they completely wasted the opportunity to capitalize on a Slim model.
Spiderman 2 saved their ass in this situation.

Companies revise their estimates all the time. Sony knew they were behind but were still confident that Q3 would carry them, until it didn't. Again, why didn't it? Because they thought Spider-Man 2 would sell better than it did. They were always banking on Q3 carrying the weight to get to 25 million in the first place.

They revised their estimates not at the end of the fiscal year, but after Q3.

They even had to cut the price of the PS5 via bundling because Spider-Man 2 wasn't pushing units enough by itself.

Somehow you're determined to separate Sony's lofty goals for Spider-Man 2 and the actual results.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don’t know Sony’s expectations and I’ve not seen anything from them to suggest this. Of course that could have been what they were gunning for, but as I said, that was a tall order for any game to achieve. What happened was Spider-Man helped them have one of their biggest quarters ever and that they didn't achieve such lofty results are secondary to that.

I think a lot of people struggle to understand that you can break records while simultaneously not hitting desired earnings.

You want to ignore the fact that Insomniac was hit with layoffs despite saying you think Spider-Man 2 met expectations. Do you know who wasn't hit with layoffs? Santa Monica studio.

If I need to make a billion dollars and I make 750 million dollars, no one is saying 750 million isn't a lot of money, but it's still short of what I needed to make.

People are really struggling with this concept.

 

[nosoynadie22]

Is Sony doomed again?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I think a lot of people struggle to understand that you can break records while simultaneously not hitting desired earnings.

You want to ignore the fact that Insomniac was hit with layoffs despite saying you think Spider-Man 2 met expectations. Do you know who wasn't hit with layoffs? Santa Monica studio.

If I need to make a billion dollars and I make 750 million dollars, no one is saying 750 million isn't a lot of money, but it's still short of what I needed to make.

People are really struggling with this concept.

It's not a matter of ignorance and there is no concept here that I've missed. You're telling folks to just accept what you're saying because all it takes are "eyeballs". I'm saying that, at the end of the day, what ever their expectations were, I don't know them (you seem to think you do and that's fine), but I know what happened. We can speculate until the end of time who/what/where/when and why PlayStation didn't reach the loftiest prediction in their history of 25 million that quarter, but it would be nothing more than that.

As for layoffs, I'm not further going down that well of speculation. Spider-Man 2 sold 10 million under just 4 months, and because Sony isn't know to boast sales figures when they are disappointing, it can be reasonably speculated that it has done well. Whether or not it was supposed to be the de facto cause of the biggest quarter in PlayStation history is another matter and you are free to continue to believe that to be the case.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's not a matter of ignorance and there is no concept here that I've missed. You're telling folks to just accept what you're saying because you say so and all it takes is "eyeballs". I'm saying that, at the end of the day, I don't know what expectations were, but I know what happened. We can speculate until the end of time who/what/where/when and why PlayStation didn't reach the loftiest prediction in their history of 25 million that quarter, but it would be nothing more than that.

There are facts here that you can't dispute as much as you want to obfuscate. You clearly aren't familiar with analysis.

• Sony held true to their estimates at the end of Q2
• They were banking on Q3 to close the gap
  • After Q3 closed they concluded they could no longer close the gap based on what they could now expect from Q4
• The only selling point they had for Q3 was Spider-Man 2
  • There is nothing else that would have helped them close the gap
• Insomniac experienced layoffs just months after the release of Spider-Man 2

 

[HeWhoWalks]

There are facts here that you can't dispute as much as you want to obfuscate. You clearly aren't familiar with analysis.

• Sony held true to their estimates at the end of Q2
• They were banking on Q3 to close the gap
  • After Q3 closed they concluded they could no longer close the gap based on what they could now expect from Q4
• The only selling point they had for Q3 was Spider-Man 2
  • There is nothing else that would have helped them close the gap
• Insomniac experienced layoffs just months after the release of Spider-Man 2

It's pretty simple. You said "Sony were still confident that Q3 would carry them, until it didn't". Which leads right into my point — they expected Spider-Man 2 to do something extraordinary. Thus, I don't know the totality of expectations and that's as far as it can go, but if you do (based on those factors), thumbs up! E Elios83 presented a slightly different set that also offers a perspective on it.

 

[Elios83]

Companies revise their estimates all the time. Sony knew they were behind but were still confident that Q3 would carry them, until it didn't. Again, why didn't it? Because they thought Spider-Man 2 would sell better than it did. They were always banking on Q3 carrying the weight to get to 25 million in the first place.

They revised their estimates not at the end of the fiscal year, but after Q3.

They even had to cut the price of the PS5 via bundling because Spider-Man 2 wasn't pushing units enough by itself.

Somehow you're determined to separate Sony's lofty goals for Spider-Man 2 and the actual results.

Sony was not confident at all. Totoki already warned that the target was difficult to achieve before the holiday season when they reported the Q2 results.
You're mistaking what companies always do, that is delaying the bad news until they're forced to, with confidence.
The target was missed because demand for the product was not there at that price.
And they have already warned that since they can't cut the price substantially they're expecting progressively declining sales for the system in next years.
These are the facts, what was stated by them during financial reports, if you want to believe in your own groundless speculations about Spiderman 2 instead you're free to do it

 

[Dirk Benedict]

That's EU alright. Futbol number 1.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

- Sony was not confident at all. Totoki already warned that the target was difficult to achieve before the holiday season when they reported the Q2 results.
- The target was missed because demand for the product was not there at that price.
- And they have already warned that since they can't cut the price substantially they're expecting progressively declining sales for the system in next years.

Looks that way:

"Sony Group Corp. raised its full-year outlook for sales and profit after its media divisions outperformed, yet warned that it might be difficult to meet a target for PlayStation 5 sales ahead of the crucial year-end holiday season" — Bloomberg, Nov 2023.

Sony: "We recognize selling more than 25 million PS5 units this fiscal year remains a challenging goal,” Chief Operating Officer Hiroki Totoki told reporters. “It will depend on how sales do in the year-end holiday season. We won’t pursue expanding the PS5-installment base alone, but will keep profitability in mind" — Nov 2023.

Then there were analysts and consultants who stated, "I don’t see Sony getting to this hardware target without price reductions, even more bundles and a massive promotion in the remaining quarters. The company will need to have a blow-out Q3 in order to even get close. To Sony’s credit, 4.9 million PS5 sold in Q2 outperforms any same-quarter sales for the PS4".

In other words, unless Sony truly expected monstrous, unprecedented PlayStation moving power from Spider-Man 2, something else was working against them. What it boils down to is all of those things needed to happen in a perfect set of circumstances to even get close.

 

[Heisenberg007]

That's EU alright. Futbol number 1.

 

[Danjin44]

I’m glad FFVII Rebirth is doing well, they put so much love in to the game. So far both Unicorn Overlord and FFVII Rebirth are my favourite games released this year and we still have so many great game coming out.

I'm glad I’m fan of JP/Asian games because this year has been soooooo good for someone like me who enjoy those games.

 

[StereoVsn]

Let this comment sit here unaltered if you want to look like a complete tool.
HD2 is GaaS. It doesnt have to have lootboxes and other stuff.

To quote yourself: If you don't know how GaaS functions, you don't get to talk about it.

You know the concept of GaaS? Look up the definition and come back feeling ashamed.

The issue is that most GaaS games don’t try a fair approach like Helldivers 2. They shit things up with MTX and short BattlePasses and $40 skins and so on.

 

[W11d]

We can see in the leaked Insomniac documents that SM2 sales expectations 14-16 mil lifetime units. And it's obvious they will sell a lot more

 

[Klayzer]

I’m glad FFVII Rebirth is doing well, they put so much love in to the game. So far both Unicorn Overlord and FFVII Rebirth are my favourite games released this year and we still have so many great game coming out.

I'm glad I’m fan of JP/Asian games because this year has been soooooo good for someone like me who enjoy those games.

Awesome year for JP/Asian games.

 

[Danjin44]

Awesome year for JP/Asian games.

And we are still not done yet…..

 

[mckmas8808]

Is Sony doomed again?

For some reason, Sony is always doomed. Since 2013 some how.

We can see in the leaked Insomniac documents that SM2 sales expectations 14-16 mil lifetime units. And it's obvious they will sell a lot more

So basically 15m lifetime units. They should be able to hit that by the end of 2024 (or 14 total months). I can see it easily hitting 20m units if they make some great PS5 Pro updates with ray-tracing.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

For some reason, Sony is always doomed. Since 2013 some how.



So basically 15m lifetime units. They should be able to hit that by the end of 2024 (or 14 total months). I can see it easily hitting 20m units if they make some great PS5 Pro updates with ray-tracing.

Shew, it'll clear 15 mill long before that. They were at 10 back in February!

 

[gatti-man]

You don't get it do you?
The issue is not GaaS games but the incentive they have. GaaS is the only type of game where the studio has a financial incentive to make their games LESS fun.

Every type of game tried to make money, but most of them get to do that by making good, fun games. GaaS is the only game type where there is an incentive to take fun out of the game to make the player pay more.
HD2 developer deliberately avoided that trap because the studio head believe they had to earn the right to monetize. A belief most other GaaS studios don't share.

And for as long as a game-type has a devil on its shoulder telling them "if you just tweak this a little you would make more money on selling power leveling items! Don't worry, just hide the real money item shop from the review copy so journalist can praise it, and put them in AFTER launch!" I would never stop telling you why it is a bad idea. i can't assume a game studio has a conscience.

Disagree. The point of GAAS is user accrual. Can’t get massive users with a game that isn’t fun. Gameplay is king ESPECIALLY in GaaS games. Its crucially important or the game bombs.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Disagree. The point of GAAS is user accrual. Can’t get massive users with a game that isn’t fun. Gameplay is king ESPECIALLY in GaaS games. Its crucially important or the game bombs.

The Southpark creators met game developers for their IP games, and they were told the goal is not to make fun games but games that are ALMOST fun. To make games that could be made actually fun by paying some money to take the roadblocks away.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Is Sony doomed again?

For some reason, Sony is always doomed. Since 2013 some how.

Yes, Playstation has been doomed since 1994.

 

[yurinka]

Is Sony doomed again?

According to some people yes. Same people who claim they haz no gamez.

Meanwhile Sony keeps breaking multiple gaming history rercords evey quarter or fiscal years and keeps increasing their market share in console (market leader with 46% market share in FY22 and growing) and PC (top 20 publisher in Steam for FY22 and growing).

In FY23 they may have been closer to 50% market share in console and top 10 publisher in Steam.

 

[nosoynadie22]

According to some people yes. Same people who claim they haz no gamez.

Meanwhile Sony keeps breaking multiple gaming history rercords evey quarter or fiscal years and keeps increasing their market share in console and PC.

look at God of War 2018 and spidermanPS4 failures with only 20 million copies sold and the failed PS5 only 40 million units sold even though there are 7 billion people in the world, meanwhile there are Phil Spencer was the creator of Successful sagas such as Minecraft, Call of Duty, Doom and Crash Bandicoot with more than 150 million units sold and Xbox with an installed base of 2 billion devices

 

[yurinka]

look at God of War 2018 and spidermanPS4 failures with only 20 million copies sold and the failed PS5 only 40 million units sold even though there are 7 billion people in the world, meanwhile there are Phil Spencer was the creator of Successful sagas such as Minecraft, Call of Duty, Doom and Crash Bandicoot with more than 150 million units sold and Xbox with an installed base of 2 billion devices

xDD

It's also worth mentioning that Sony broke the fastest selling Sony game ever record in 2020 (TLOU2), 2022 (GoWR), 2023 (Spider-Man 2) or 2024 (Helldivers 2).

 

[nosoynadie22]

Yes, Playstation has been doomed since 1994.

It's been 30 years and Sony still refuses to accept that they failed

 

[nosoynadie22]

xDD

It's also worth mentioning that Sony broke the fastest selling Sony game ever record in 2020 (TLOU2), 2022 (GoWR), 2023 (Spider-Man 2) or 2024 (Helldivers 2).

units sold to retailers everyone knows that Ponies don't buy games and there are more than 30 million PS5 consoles hidden in warehouses Sony falsifies its numbers in reality xbox has sold more consoles and its profit margins are also much higher, approximately 45% of operations profit

 

[yurinka]

units sold to retailers everyone knows that Ponies don't buy games and there are more than 30 million PS5 consoles hidden in warehouses Sony falsifies its numbers in reality xbox has sold more consoles and its profit margins are also much higher, approximately 45% of operations profit

You forgot to mention that the 54.8M PS5s sold until December weren't sold to real customers. All of them were sold to scalpers instead, who have them sitting at warehouses.

 

[nosoynadie22]

You forgot to mention that the 54.8M PS5s sold until Decemberweren't sold to real customers. All of them were sold to scalpers instead.

and are sold by piece to repair printers or routers

 

[drganon]

You forgot to mention that the 54.8M PS5s sold until December weren't sold to real customers. All of them were sold to scalpers instead, who have them sitting at warehouses.

Not to mention no 30 year old actually plays ps5, it just collects dust. At least according to very intelligent posters on this site who backed up their claims with evidence.

 

[nosoynadie22]

Not to mention no 30 year old actually plays ps5, it just collects dust. At least according to very intelligent posters on this site who backed up their claims with evidence.

 

[yurinka]

Not to mention no 30 year old actually plays ps5, it just collects dust. At least according to very intelligent posters on this site who backed up their claims with evidence.

Why they would buy it? It haz no gamez according to such posters. They say FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy Relink, Ronin, Helldivers, Dragon's Dogma 2, Tekken 8, Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth, PoP Lost Crown, etc. don't count because of potatoes.