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Extra Credits
- Thread starter Poyunch
- Start date
I for one will be boycotting The Escapist for their terrible treatment of Extra Credits. Trying to claim donations of what was basically a charity collection, not playing salaries, claiming ip even though they haven't fulfilled their part of the contract.
I'll miss Zero Punctuation, though I may watch uploads on YouTube, so long as no advertising money goes to them.
I'll miss Zero Punctuation, though I may watch uploads on YouTube, so long as no advertising money goes to them.
meltingparappa
Member
My god, their side of this REALLY makes The Escapist look like absolute scum.
At any rate, I'm glad they're still going. They MUST at least go on long enough to do an episode on Catherine.
At any rate, I'm glad they're still going. They MUST at least go on long enough to do an episode on Catherine.
meltingparappa
Member
I hope they get every single on of their demands, but if they can't retain the "Extra Credits IP" it would be a good a time as any to mix things up a little bit and move away from the third-person diction and pitch-shifted voice gimmick.
Obviously their viewership would take a hit with a different name and superficial shtick, but their content is cerebral enough that their fans would find them and appreciate a better method of delivering their arguments.
Obviously their viewership would take a hit with a different name and superficial shtick, but their content is cerebral enough that their fans would find them and appreciate a better method of delivering their arguments.
meltingparappa
Member
Since Escapist wasn't really paying them in the first place, maybe just trying to get subscribers to a youtube channel may be more profitable.
ScepticMatt
Member
Hmm ... one more reason for me to avoid escapist.
I liked extra-credits though, I hope they can find a way to publish.
I liked extra-credits though, I hope they can find a way to publish.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Toppot said:
I was thinking the same
Youta Mottenai
Member
WTF! I mean, really!? Wasn't the not-paying part low enough The Escapist?Roto13 said:
And to think I was pretty annoyed when they said Allison's medical insurance wouldn't cover the surgery using the ol' "pre-existing" bs excuse, and now this. Some people really have no ethics when it comes to money.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Toppot said:
My first intuition is that the show is both too high-brow and aesthetically lacking to be a good fit at Gametrailers.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
hey_it's_that_dog said:
if.. only gaf was able to do it
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
meltingparappa said:
I love EC and everything, but this (along with the way-too-fast narration) sometimes get me on my nerves.
Penguin nerd
Member
Oh wow, I love this show and also...
Robert Khoo of Penny Arcade tweeted this not too long ago. They have that whole PATV thing that's been going on for a while with a few different shows. Possibly PA?
rkhoo said:Yo @ExtraCreditz you know my info.
Robert Khoo of Penny Arcade tweeted this not too long ago. They have that whole PATV thing that's been going on for a while with a few different shows. Possibly PA?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Maybe GiantBomb?
There's a reply up from the Escapist
http://www.facebook.com/notes/alexander-macris/a-response-on-extra-credits/10150287107583910
Hey guys. This is Alexander Macris. I'm the publisher. Jame's statements are very one-sided so I think they deserve a response.
Yes, we are having a very unfortunate dispute with James over Extra Credits, and yes, he's planning to leave The Escapist, despite our repeated requests that he stay. It's also true that we fell behind in paying James.
Here are the key facts as I see them:
1. From November 2010 to June 2011, James told us not to worry about paying him and to focus on paying other people. His exact words were "I really don't want to squeeze you guys if you're in a crunch, so you can put us to the bottom of the list for right now..." Given that we have been in a crunch due to the recession, we took him at his word, thanked him profusely for the flexibility, and focused on paying down other debt. (Several other shows were cancelled around November 2010 you'll recall, as we couldn't pay them, but James' flexibility allowed us to keep working with him to promote Extra Credits.)
2. This continued until June 2011, when James emailed us to alert us that he needed funds urgently. The request was partly for family matters and partly for Allison's surgery. He asked for our permission to raise funds through Kickstarter. We more than gave permission, we threw our weight into supporting it. Unfortunately, Kickstarter refused because they don't do charity. I then suggested James try RocketHub and RocketHub agreed. We again collaborated to make it a joint effort. Our agreement was that we would be compensated for the wholesale cost of the t-shirts and Publisher's Club, and that the funds would be used to save Extra Credits. I reasonably interpreted "save Extra Credits" to mean that anything beyond what was needed for Allison's surgery would be used on Extra Credits production. I also Pay-palled James as much money as we had available at that time.
3. After the RocketHub was enormously successful and James had decided to use the funds to create an indie publishing label rather than to "save Extra Credits", James decided he would no longer speak to us directly and instead assigned a "business development manager" to speak to us. James' new business development manager demanded that we assign all the IP of Extra Credits to James.
4. We indicated we would be happy to work out an IP transfer but that before we did that, we would like to make sure we got paid for the wholesale cost of the t-shirts and the Publisher's Club memberships, and that we would like to see the Extra Credits RocketHub money used to create more Extra Credits. We did NOT ask that James send us $9,500 - we said he should use $9,500 to create more episodes of the show that the money was supposed to be used to save.
5. James' business development manager at that time emailed me and told us that his position was now that we had no rights to the show, no deal, and that our entire contract was invalid. This was out of the blue as far as we were concerned. We had no understanding at this time of James' intent to use the "Save Extra Credits" money to start a publishing business.
6. At this point, Russ Pitts, our editor in chief, flew out to meet with James and his business development manager personally. They agreed that we would continue to work together; that we would transfer the IP to James in exchange for some fee to be negotiated; and that James would handle the EC t-shirts directly rather than through us. We agreed to swallow the cost of the Publisher's Club memberships, a few thousand dollars.
7. I then emailed James and his business development manager to explain that I wanted to get them paid as quickly as possible so that the back debt was not a sticking point in negotiations. I then emailed them again to say that I had talked to our Board and investors and that payment would come in about a week.
8. At this point, James had his lawyer send us an email stating that we were in breach and that unless we sent money more quickly than I had just stated we'd be able to send it, that James was terminating his relationship with us. I presume that James thought we were playing games with him, although we were not.
9. We went ahead and mailed James the money we got from our investors the next week as we had promised. James' lawyer nevertheless sent us an email indicating they intended to terminate our agreement.
10. Finally, I should add that as of last week, we had paid James over $14,000 of the $20,000 we owed him, and that as of today, our company has mailed James all payments he is owed.
I have all of this documented extensively in email. James is simply in error if he believes we have ever lied to him or any of his staff. We are prepared to defend ourselves against future defamation in a court of law.
Cordial regards,
Alexander Macris
Eitherway I really hope extra credits gets things worked out.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/alexander-macris/a-response-on-extra-credits/10150287107583910
Hey guys. This is Alexander Macris. I'm the publisher. Jame's statements are very one-sided so I think they deserve a response.
Yes, we are having a very unfortunate dispute with James over Extra Credits, and yes, he's planning to leave The Escapist, despite our repeated requests that he stay. It's also true that we fell behind in paying James.
Here are the key facts as I see them:
1. From November 2010 to June 2011, James told us not to worry about paying him and to focus on paying other people. His exact words were "I really don't want to squeeze you guys if you're in a crunch, so you can put us to the bottom of the list for right now..." Given that we have been in a crunch due to the recession, we took him at his word, thanked him profusely for the flexibility, and focused on paying down other debt. (Several other shows were cancelled around November 2010 you'll recall, as we couldn't pay them, but James' flexibility allowed us to keep working with him to promote Extra Credits.)
2. This continued until June 2011, when James emailed us to alert us that he needed funds urgently. The request was partly for family matters and partly for Allison's surgery. He asked for our permission to raise funds through Kickstarter. We more than gave permission, we threw our weight into supporting it. Unfortunately, Kickstarter refused because they don't do charity. I then suggested James try RocketHub and RocketHub agreed. We again collaborated to make it a joint effort. Our agreement was that we would be compensated for the wholesale cost of the t-shirts and Publisher's Club, and that the funds would be used to save Extra Credits. I reasonably interpreted "save Extra Credits" to mean that anything beyond what was needed for Allison's surgery would be used on Extra Credits production. I also Pay-palled James as much money as we had available at that time.
3. After the RocketHub was enormously successful and James had decided to use the funds to create an indie publishing label rather than to "save Extra Credits", James decided he would no longer speak to us directly and instead assigned a "business development manager" to speak to us. James' new business development manager demanded that we assign all the IP of Extra Credits to James.
4. We indicated we would be happy to work out an IP transfer but that before we did that, we would like to make sure we got paid for the wholesale cost of the t-shirts and the Publisher's Club memberships, and that we would like to see the Extra Credits RocketHub money used to create more Extra Credits. We did NOT ask that James send us $9,500 - we said he should use $9,500 to create more episodes of the show that the money was supposed to be used to save.
5. James' business development manager at that time emailed me and told us that his position was now that we had no rights to the show, no deal, and that our entire contract was invalid. This was out of the blue as far as we were concerned. We had no understanding at this time of James' intent to use the "Save Extra Credits" money to start a publishing business.
6. At this point, Russ Pitts, our editor in chief, flew out to meet with James and his business development manager personally. They agreed that we would continue to work together; that we would transfer the IP to James in exchange for some fee to be negotiated; and that James would handle the EC t-shirts directly rather than through us. We agreed to swallow the cost of the Publisher's Club memberships, a few thousand dollars.
7. I then emailed James and his business development manager to explain that I wanted to get them paid as quickly as possible so that the back debt was not a sticking point in negotiations. I then emailed them again to say that I had talked to our Board and investors and that payment would come in about a week.
8. At this point, James had his lawyer send us an email stating that we were in breach and that unless we sent money more quickly than I had just stated we'd be able to send it, that James was terminating his relationship with us. I presume that James thought we were playing games with him, although we were not.
9. We went ahead and mailed James the money we got from our investors the next week as we had promised. James' lawyer nevertheless sent us an email indicating they intended to terminate our agreement.
10. Finally, I should add that as of last week, we had paid James over $14,000 of the $20,000 we owed him, and that as of today, our company has mailed James all payments he is owed.
I have all of this documented extensively in email. James is simply in error if he believes we have ever lied to him or any of his staff. We are prepared to defend ourselves against future defamation in a court of law.
Cordial regards,
Alexander Macris
Eitherway I really hope extra credits gets things worked out.
I wish nothing but the best for the Extra Creditz crew. When I was the News Editor of the Escapist (2008) I didn't get paid for 3-4 months. In fact, by the time I finally received my first pay check I was already in my next job (I wasn't about to work for free) and had already been paid by my new employers, on time at that. Even then, I still had to use my lunch breaks for the first few weeks of my new job to call them up like some sort of pimp. Where's my money? Where's my money?
The messed up part was there were people on staff who went unpaid even longer than I had. They just didn't stick up for themselves.
So yeah, they're not exactly the most reputable organization on the planet.
The messed up part was there were people on staff who went unpaid even longer than I had. They just didn't stick up for themselves.
So yeah, they're not exactly the most reputable organization on the planet.
Penguin nerd
Member
In the comments section of that Facebook note they talk about getting together to compile the different emails sent back and forth between each other and publishing them to get the full story out.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Does this change James's appearance at the Escapist panel at PAX? Because if it leaves him out then I can re-arrange my schedule for that hour-ish of time.
meltingparappa
Member
NOPE.Alexander Macris said:
Even if the specific wording became non-personal, there is clearly no room for interpretation in the reason people donated to that fund.
It's good that people were more generous than expected, but in no way anyone would REASONABLY assume that the publisher should automatically control these funds.
Madrugador
Member
Hope everything goes well, I love this show. Penny Arcade sounds like a good choice.
kingschiebi
Member
Xadhoom said:
Woah, that almost makes me feel bad for being a paying member. I mean, it's all about supporting some quality/entertaining content for me and I could care less about the Publisher Club extras. Seeing that really hurts.
One might even go as far as question if something similar was also a factor in the creation of Checkpoint on PATV (hold on to your tinfoil hats), although it sounded quite genuine from the LRR crew that they were simply not satisfied with the overall format.
Then again, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the troubled shows to end up on PATV. I could even live with it, if the PA guys come up with a similar subscription model for HD content. As long as it funds the content, i'm good.
kingschiebi
Member
plufim said:
From what I understand, they get at least enough to sustain some of the crew. Then again, the case there seems to be very different as they still appear to hold all IP rights (at least for the main series) and be able to get some money in via merchandise.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see their other shows to end up on PATV, though.
Youta Mottenai
Member
Good to hear this.Penguin nerd said:
Penguin nerd
Member
The Extra Creditz twitter account is answering questions from people figured you all might want to check out what they're saying:
Left out a couple questions that didn't really add anything. (Questions still being answered so I can just update this post.)
Left out a couple questions that didn't really add anything. (Questions still being answered so I can just update this post.)
Keiician said:
i dont feel bad for them at this moment, i feel bad for what they've been through. As of now they raised $98,628 in rockethub, and by my understanding the escapist isnt gonna recieve any of that money.
Now they'll just get hired on PATV and everything will be fine and dandy. That's my guess anyway.
WrenchNinja
Member
Wow, I am never going to the Escapist again. What a scummy thing to do.
Mortrialus
Banned
Zafir said:
The comments are interesting. Both are saying they should publish all of their letters to each other to see who is more honest about the situation.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I wish everyone would go to YouTube, including ZP and AVGN. Escapist and GT's Flash players suck balls.
YouTube has a pretty good advertising framework, if Extra Credits takes advantage of it I don't see why being on YouTube wouldn't be more profitable for them.
YouTube has a pretty good advertising framework, if Extra Credits takes advantage of it I don't see why being on YouTube wouldn't be more profitable for them.
Extra Credits is one of my favorite online shows, it's downright sad to see them in this situation. I'll follow them where they go. All else I use on the Escapst is Zero Puntuation and Unskippable. I hope they aren't in the same trouble as Extra Credits.
Come to think of it, I don't really know what the Escapist's shtick is. Apart from "the site with Zero Punctuation". What are they supposed to be?
Come to think of it, I don't really know what the Escapist's shtick is. Apart from "the site with Zero Punctuation". What are they supposed to be?