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No they wouldn't have. Most people would have flipped the heck out. People were already making pricing comparisons to ps4 before release.

People already flipped out about $299

 

[Gotdatmoney]

What makes you think it would be a $100 difference?

Did you read the post I quoted?

 

[Easy_D]

FACTOR 5 IS ALIVE? THEY HAVE THE TURRICAN RIGHTS? Aw fuck yea son

 

[RichiRamjag]

People already flipped out about $299

Exactly. $399 would have been quite the gamble coming off of the Wii U.

 

[mavericktopgun]

It can but:



Yup.

As to can it run GTA V the question is which version: the 360, PS3 or XBO?

Between X360 and Xbox​ One Version of GTA 5 of course ;D

 

[jroc74]

^ I see what you did there. lol

I don't think many people outside of enthusiast forums like GAF would scoff at a portable version of GTA V if it were based off the 360 version.

True.

I'm starting to think devs, publishers might be underestimating the impact the Switch can have.

 

[mavericktopgun]

I don't think many people outside of enthusiast forums like GAF would scoff at a portable version of GTA V if it were based off the 360 version.

Give me a Xbox 360 Port of GTA 5 for Switch and I'll pay 200 bucks. No kidding. Such a game wherever I go would be nuts.

 

[Sciortino]

LOL racing game, you do know that Wipeout 3 was 1080p60 in 2008, 9 years ago.

Taxing genres for console CPU / GPU / Bandwidth are large open world games and density of enemies and NPC's.

There is a reason people talk about Witcher 3 or the like on performance and can hardware do this for that game. Do I think Scorpio could run Witcher 3 at 60 FPS - hell no. Do I think Switch could run Witcher 3 and look decent - hell no.

If your hoping a kart racer or 2d platformer performance is an indication of power its going to be a long generation for you.

Relax dude.. Hes not saying that Mario Kart 8 deluxe is a powerhouse showcase for the Switch. His response was to someone who said that they heard people say that the Switch is less powerful than a Wii U yet Mario Kart 8 only ran at 720p on the Wii U and now 1080p on Switch.

 

[stilgar]

Give me a Xbox 360 Port of GTA 5 for Switch and I'll pay 200 bucks. No kidding. Such a game wherever I go would be nuts.

Same.

Nintendo games + GTA+one FPS because come on = enough for me <3

 

[mavericktopgun]

Relax dude.. Hes not saying that Mario Kart 8 deluxe is a powerhouse showcase for the Switch. His response was to someone who said that they heard people say its on par with a Wii U yet Mario Kart 8 only ran at 720p on the Wii U.

Didn't wipeout on the PS3 have adapaptive resolution scaling?

 

[metalslimer]

What's the current most powerful mobile hardware that can actually run in a portable Seitch"s size (aka not laptop hardware)?

 

[ToysAndMoreClub]

I mean this is obvious right.

It has to be better than the wii u even slightly cause it runs Zelda at a higher rez but it aint as good as ps4 cuz of the downgrades in DQ Heroes and x1 is close to ps4.

Switch is obviously weaker than the PS4, but the DQ Heroes games on Switch were half-assed ports rushed to meet the launch. It is not a good indicator.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't think many people outside of enthusiast forums like GAF would scoff at a portable version of GTA V if it were based off the 360 version.

I don't think many on GAF would scoff at it either to be honest.

 

[ZOONAMI]

People already flipped out about $299

Given how cheap the build quality is on the unit itself and especially the dock I honestly feel like $299 is $50-100 too much. I like my switch but I don't really think it's worth $299. Especially given Nvidia has been selling a tablet with a bigger higher resolution screen for $199 for years. Even when the K1 chip was brand new it was $199 in 2014.

 

[Peltz]

This means exactly nothing, because the divide between the Wii-U and the Xbox One is absolutely vast.

If you take it off the dock, the thing is basically a more modern handheld Wii-U. Dock it and it pushes a bit more power to up the rendering resolution to 900p or even 1080p. That's basically it.

But Wii U had a few 1080p games too (WWHD, SSB4, SF0, TPHD, etc). So it's not as simple as saying it's a Wii U with higher resolution.

We also haven't seen any big budget games designed from the ground up for the Switch yet. Yes, if you look at Zelda and MK8, your statement is correct. But until we see how something like ARMS or (better yet) Mario runs we really won't know how capable this hardware is.

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't think many people outside of enthusiast forums like GAF would scoff at a portable version of GTA V if it were based off the 360 version.

As long as it was around 30fps I'd be fine with it.

 

[KingSnake]

Nice title change. Now most of the people who posted on the first pages will seem to be some GFLOPsessed nuts and derailing the thread.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Given how cheap the build quality is on the unit itself and especially the dock I honestly feel like $299 is $50-100 too much. I like my switch but I don't really think it's worth $299. Especially given Nvidia has been selling a tablet with a bigger higher resolution screen for $199 for years. Even when the K1 chip was brand new it was $199 in 2014.

???

This is by far the most premium feeling device Nintendo has ever made. The dock even feels nice, though definitely much flimsier than the Switch itself. Have you actually held one?

 

[Piccoro]

Nice title change. Now most of the people who posted on the first pages will seem to be some GFLOPsessed nuts and derailing the thread.

Agreed. Great title change.

I'm actually hyped for a possible Turrican re-release/new game!

EDIT: For all Turrican fans out there, which game is better? Mega Turrican (Genesis) or Super Turrican (Snes)? I'm looking to buy one from the Virtual Console.

 

[Sora the Cat]

Problem is that PS3 was impressive because of devs like Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream, Guerrilla Games, Sony Santa Monica etc and is there any dev who makes games for Nintendo consoles that could compete with those for visuals? Maybe Retro Studios but then what? So I'm thinking that the majority of the games on Switch might still end up looking worse than many AAA PS3 games.

No they won't, wtf.

 

[RootCause]

It can but:


Yup.

As to can it run GTA V the question is which version: the 360, PS3 or XBO?

Something in between? Maybe the X1 version with 720P resolution, less foliage and shorter draw distance?

Should be better than the PS3/360 version. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[OldMuffin]

So factor 5 is back? That's great news! I think... I mean most of the original staff is probably not coming back but as long as some the original founders are involved that should be a ok in my book

 

[Rodin]

Fair enough.

Honestly, I just never though about it. I have (and love) my Wii U and that thing produced some great looking titles (Mario 3D world, Xenoblade Chronicles X, etc.), so I juts assumed the Switch was about on par or just a bit more powerful than the Wii U. I never fathomed this tablet was significantly more powerful than the Wii U.

Absolutely. You should be very happy with how Switch games will look, especially when devs will start to fully use its power.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion based off of one game that probably wasn't that well optimized when it first came out.

Shin'en worked their asses for years building the engine and making the game look as good as possible on Wii U. There are tons of insightful interviews about how they made the game and how many smokes and mirrors there are in the Wii U version to even make it run at 60fps, maybe take a look at those instead of suggesting that they didn't optimize it very well. Or that a port for a different architecture is somehow better optimized.

My question when it comes to using Fast RMX as a comparison would be what was bottleneck for FRN that made Shin'en use the checkerboard rendering?

I mean look at MK8. It run at 720p60fps on Wii U and it will be 1080p60fps on Switch.

What made FRN more resource intensive than MK8?

So far we have these:

Zelda: adaptive 648-720p on Wii U, adaptive 810-900p on Switch
MK8: 720p on Wii U, 1080p on Switch
Fast R: checkerboard 720p on Wii U, adaptive 900-1080p on Switch (with drops below 900p at times and the promise that a future firmware will fix it at 1080p)
Splatoon: 720p on Wii U, 720p on Switch (but still in development)

Honestly, Fast does things that i only saw on current gen machines. From the digital Foundry article:

So while image quality may fall short of expectations, the rest of the package far exceeds them. Features such as motion blur, ambient occlusion, physically-based rendering, HDR lighting, and high quality shadows are all expected on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One - but seeing each of these techniques in play on Wii U at 60fps is an impressive feat. At its core, we have a feature-rich deferred renderer designed to take advantage of the Wii U's eDRAM memory bandwidth - the 128-bit G-buffer fits comfortably within the console's 32MB.

The game uses the console's GPU for a number of general purpose tasks in order to free up precious cycles. The game is also properly parallelised and takes advantage of the Wii U's CPU with two of the three cores dedicated to rendering while the third is reserved for networking, audio, and various other tasks.

Fast Racing Neo is one of the only examples of physically-based rendering in a shipping title on similarly powerful hardware so it's quite a treat to see here. "On most materials we use albedo maps, smoothness maps, specular maps and AO maps," explains Manfred Linzner. "Our BRDF (bidirectional reflective distribution function) is somewhat handcrafted from what we think looks cool for our games."

Utilisation of this technique ensures a unique but physically correct appearance - diffuse materials exhibit decreased reflectivity with wider highlights while more metallic surfaces shine brightly with sharp specular highlights.

HDR lighting is also rendered using the R11G11B10 format with a gamma correct pipeline. This is key to ensuring that both inputs and outputs of a particular shader are in the proper colour space, producing more accurate results. When it comes to producing realistic lighting in a modern game, linear space calculations are highly important and helps avoid that overly harsh older CGI look.

We also see plenty of clever programming tricks throughout many facets of the game. For example, the sharp, non-repeating ground textures used throughout are actually generated on the fly using a specialised shader. The results look great and less space is required. Mountain passes were also created by scanning real-world materials and adapting those results into the game while the thick forests evident in the snowy stage are placed using a procedural algorithm.

Space is further saved by using shadow maps generated on the fly during level loading. The world shadows generated by the sun actually use high quality exponential shadow maps, producing a soft look that blends well with the high speed of the game. Moving elements, such as the player ship, also require dynamic shadows which are generated using shadow volumes projected into the ambient occlusion buffer.

It's an impressive looking racer here with a blistering frame-rate and beautiful visual design. With a resolution upgrade, it would look just as fresh on PS4 or Xbox One and holds up well despite running on less powerful hardware.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-vs-fast-racing-neo

Not to say that Mario Kart isn't impressive as well, and that runs at full 720p on Wii U, but maybe Fast does something better in terms of materials, geometries and shadows.

fp16 is something you specify per variable in your shader code. so yes you're absolutely mixing fp16 and fp32.

The problem with fp16 on maxwell though is that not all instructions are supported, so in more complex shaders you'll be converting values back and forth between fp32 and fp16, and may loose any potential benefits if you use it incorrectly. So you're unlikely to get an x2 increase in performance for using fp16; then again FLOPS is and has always been a bullshit number.

Thanks for this post. Does this apply to the Tegra line as well? Because i read somewhere that it was tweaked to get the most out of fp16 compared to the desktop line but i don't if it's true.

 

[lumzi23]

These guys are renowned by some for the their tech prowess (with good reason I think). Want to see they come up with this gen on whatever system they choose to work with.

 

[mavericktopgun]

Thanks for the title change

 

[Tizoc]

Gimme a classic compilation fo the games already please

 

[jdmonmou]

As to can it run GTA V the question is which version: the 360, PS3 or XBO?

To me it doesn't really matter which version as long as it can run the game at an acceptable frame rate. I'm playing Zelda on my Wii U gamepad and while it has performance issues, I'm still having a good time. GTA 5 had performance issues when I played it on the 360, but I really didn't mind because the game was so good.

The Switch's advantage is it's portability. I think I would opt for the Switch version of a game more than the PC/Xbox One/PS4 version if it meant I can play it on the go.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I just want a game with music that sounds like Turrican music - that was the best part of the series for me, the awesome music.

As for "Betwen Wii U and Xbox One" power, sure that's a fairly wide gap, but something to keep in mind is that in handheld mode the Switch is still quite a bit more powerful than a Wii U (which can be seen in Zelda, the Switch in handheld mode has a rock-solid framerate at 720p, Wii U not so much), so when docked that's gotta be closer to the Xbox One on the power spectrum than the Wii U. Personally I think its power relative to the Xbox One is similar to the XBox One power relative to PS4, though we only currently have one game kinda-sorta taking full advantage of the Switch hardware, Fast RMX, so it's hard to judge (kinda sorta because it *is* still an enhanced Wii U port, though in this case they did go to the effort to improve the graphical quality quite a bit more than just the higher resolution).

 

[ZOONAMI]

???

This is by far the most premium feeling device Nintendo has ever made. The dock even feels nice, though definitely much flimsier than the Switch itself. Have you actually held one?

Yes, I got one and returned it because the joycon on the left was wobbly. Got another one and now both of them are wobbly. The kickstand is complete trash, like some of the cheapest plastic I have ever seen. The screen is made of plastic. The game card slot is also the cheapest plastic ever and doesn't really snap into place.

To top it all of my dock is bent.

I'm not comparing it to other Nintendo devices, I'm comparing it to a $199 tablet from 2014. Or even an iPad mini 2 for $269. iPad mini 2 from a build quality perspective completely blows the switch out of the water.

 

[Gai Murakumo]

A potential Turrican down the pipeline perhaps.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Whoops, title change. I haven't ever played a Turrican before... I wonder if anyone would contract Factor 5 to create a Rogue Squadron-like game with a different IP. Maybe give Star Fox another chance?

Yes, I got one and returned it because the joycon on the left was wobbly. Got another one and now both of them are wobbly. The kickstand is complete trash, like some of the cheapest plastic I have ever seen. The screen is made of plastic. The game card slot is also the cheapest plastic ever and doesn't really snap into place.

To top it all of my dock is bent.

I'm not comparing it to other Nintendo devices, I'm comparing it to a $199 tablet from 2014. Or even an iPad mini 2 for $269. iPad mini 2 from a build quality perspective completely blows the switch out of the water.

You must have gotten extremely unlucky then, because mine has no wobble problem and my dock is perfectly fine. The game card slot is a bit of a pain and the kickstand feels light but works fine. And is detachable/re-attachable thankfully. But everything else looks and feels great to me, especially the main unit and the joycons.

Comparing it to a typical tablet makes no sense, because all of the things those tablets nail (build quality of the screen unit) the Switch also nails. The things you are complaining about (game card slot, build in kickstand- Surface has this, detachable joycon controller portions, packed in dock) don't even exist on many typical tablets.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Chris Hüelsbeck or bust. You know what's up!

 

[KingSnake]

Shin'en worked their asses for years building the engine and making the game look as good as possible on Wii U. There are tons of insightful interviews about how they made the game and how many smokes and mirrors there are in the Wii U version to even make it run at 60fps, maybe take a look at those instead of suggesting that they didn't optimize it very well. Or that a port for a different architecture is somehow better optimized.


Honestly, Fast does things that i only saw on current gen machines. From the digital Foundry article:






http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-vs-fast-racing-neo

Not to say that Mario Kart isn't impressive as well, and that runs at full 720p on Wii U, but maybe Fast does something better in terms of materials, geometries and shadows.

Maybe their engine was just too forward thinking for Wii U in terms of features and the workaround for those created the bottleneck. In which case using Fast RMX as a power comparison is quite flawed.

I would say that the trade-off between using those effects and a 720p resolution might be worth it for enthusiasts like Shin'en, but for the end user the artifacts produced by the checkerboard rendering hide most of that hidden beauty anyhow.

 

[Peltz]

Yes, I got one and returned it because the joycon on the left was wobbly. Got another one and now both of them are wobbly. The kickstand is complete trash, like some of the cheapest plastic I have ever seen. The screen is made of plastic. The game card slot is also the cheapest plastic ever and doesn't really snap into place.

To top it all of my dock is bent.

I'm not comparing it to other Nintendo devices, I'm comparing it to a $199 tablet from 2014. Or even an iPad mini 2 for $269. iPad mini 2 from a build quality perspective completely blows the switch out of the water.

Joycons are not wobbly on any unit I've seen. They click solidly into place.

I agree the kickstand isn't great, but I think it's flexible to avoid snapping in case someone tries to dock while the kickstand is extended.

The screen is made of plastic, but so is the Vita's screen (and all handheld game-system screens for that matter).

I agree with you also on the gamecard slot. It's not the best, but luckily mine snaps securely into place.

But the plastic on the unit overall feels very solid and premium. iPad mini 2 may have better build quality, but it's a different device that is designed with different priorities.

 

[Rodin]

Maybe their engine was just too forward thinking for Wii U in terms of features and the workaround for those created the bottleneck. In which case using Fast RMX as a power comparison is quite flawed.

I would say that the trade-off between using those effects and a 720p resolution might be worth it for enthusiasts like Shin'en, but for the end user the artifacts produced by the checkerboard rendering hide most of that hidden beauty anyhow.

Actually that would be pretty significant because it would mean that the Switch doesn't run into these bottlenecks when using advanced graphical features, which means that it can produce vastly better results.

... So it's basically the same thing seen from two different angles.


But yeah, all this tech talk is overshadowing the real news here: Factor 5 is back and they might be doing a new Turrican. That's insane.

 

[Kissenkopf]

Yes, I got one and returned it because the joycon on the left was wobbly. Got another one and now both of them are wobbly. The kickstand is complete trash, like some of the cheapest plastic I have ever seen. The screen is made of plastic. The game card slot is also the cheapest plastic ever and doesn't really snap into place.

To top it all of my dock is bent.

I'm not comparing it to other Nintendo devices, I'm comparing it to a $199 tablet from 2014. Or even an iPad mini 2 for $269. iPad mini 2 from a build quality perspective completely blows the switch out of the water.

I had four or five Switch units in.my hands and none of them had the issues you had. Either you are extremly unlucly or you don't have a unit. The device is well build and doesn't feel cheap at all. Sorry, but I just can't believe what you are saying.
How could a joy con be wobbly with the piece of metal it slides in?

 

[ZOONAMI]

I had four or five Switch units in.my hands and none of them had the issues you had. Either you are extremly unlucly or you don't have a unit. The device is well build and doesn't feel cheap at all. Sorry, but I just can't believe what you are saying.
How could a joy con be wobbly with the piece of metal it slides in?

They move around in the slots. I sincerely doubt most units don't have some movement. And no I'm not just making shit up. Thanks though. Everyone completely ignores the bent dock issues I guess too huh.

 

[beril]

Thanks for this post. Does this apply to the Tegra line as well? Because i read somewhere that it was tweaked to get the most out of fp16 compared to the desktop line but i don't if it's true.

Yes I'm talking about Tegra.
I don't think their desktop cards did fp16 until Pascal, and there's it's mostly a compatibility feature but not very useful in practice since they have much fewer fp16 units.

 

[JohnSpartanLee]

Turrican 4. 2D. Make it happen.

Also they should update Turrican I with Turrican II's power up- & one up-icons and voice samples.
Plus let us choose between original TFMX music and Chris Hülsbeck's remade soundtrack from 2013 (Turrican Soundtrack Anthology).

And maybe they could finish Super Turrican (SNES). The fifth world didn't fit on the cartridge IIRC.

 

[Spirited]

Switch is obviously weaker than the PS4, but the DQ Heroes games on Switch were half-assed ports rushed to meet the launch. It is not a good indicator.

If any here have ever had the pleasure of playing omega force/Koei games on the PC you should know that the performance and graphical capabilities of those ports really doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the systems capabilities.

Because many of the ports to PC doesn't even use the ps4 assets (use worse, think ps3 or vita) and they have awful framerates.

 

[Rodin]

Yes I'm talking about Tegra.
I don't think their desktop cards did fp16 until Pascal, and there's it's mostly a compatibility feature but not very useful in practice since they have much fewer fp16 units.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Also good to have another confirmation that there are potential benefits if properly used.

 

[yyr]

Switch performance is somewhere between a TI - 82 and the large hadron collider.

I almost spit out my oatmeal

 

[foxuzamaki]

Factor 5 :,D

 

[XgorreKrusadeX]

I just hope it would have enough tech to run downgraded, but still decent, ports of Xone/PS4 games. Let´s wait and see how the Fifa 18 and Steep ports do come out

 

[frankie_baby]

Switxh performance is somewhere between the wheel and skynet

 

[Lutherian]

I'll never doubt Factor 5 skills. They did marvel on Amiga, Super Nes (Super Turrican 2), Genesis (Mega Turrican), Game Boy (Contra: The Alien Wars -yes, they did it for Konami on GameBoy), N64 (Rogue Squadron, MusyX & DivX compression tools for N64 -they helped Angel Studio to compress the entire Resident Evil 2 on one single N64 cartdrige), and GameCube (Rogue Leader, anyone ?).

Lair is another story, they had tons of problems during development. At least I liked the graphics (and the dragons design).

And Manfred Trenz did Super Turrican on NES by himself and worked on Rendering Ranger R², his very personnal Turrican on Super Nes (and with a nice touch to Super Turrican 2 in the level 1-2).

 

[ChryZ]

Factor 5 is alive! This makes me happy.

 

[martino]

have you the shield tv port of tomb raider ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU5nWwpGYps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-5jD6EieA
seems decent and it runs on android.
hope same kind of result with docked switch is possible for similar games.

 

[Glix]

F5 is ALIVE?????? Holy shit! Not even making a short circuit joke here!

These guys were awesome!

 

[RampagingSoul]

Factor 5 is alive! This makes me happy.

Pretty much how I feel. Just recently got a copy of Rogue Squadron II on GameCube for about $10-15 from a Vintage Stock a week or two ago too. I'll probably get to it some time soon.