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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/natalee-holloway/natalee-holloway-family-photos#id=1

You were saying?

Showing childhood pictures of a young person whose life was cut tragically short is nothing new.

Did I say it was new? I believe I said its a common thing. There's some very good documentaries done on these sorts of media-bias behaviors. More often than not you'll see pics of a victim as a child because that's the one pic the family gave the media. They want to present their lost loved one in the most idyllic way possible. Most of these cases don't come down to right vs left like Trayvon's case is, though. There's very obvious bias being shown by both sides, much like what happens in most every other news story that splits along party lines - Occupy Wallstreet members were peaceful protesters in liberal stories. They were home-grown terrorists, losers, agitators etc on conservative sites.
 
Conservative sites using pics like the one shown to be a fake are just as manipulative as liberal sites using pics of him when he was 11. One group wants to illicit sympathy for the boy and rage towards Zimmerman for killing what appears to be a very innocent looking child, and the other side wants to show Trayvon as a threat deserving of what he got. I think they're both incredibly disingenuous, but based on the current facts I'm definitely in Trayvon's corner. Zimmerman was told to back the hell off and he ignored the order and ended up murdering an unarmed teen. And yet he's walking free.
The latter group is using fake media. There is no excuse for this. Attempting to equate the two is ridiculous.

Edit: What Learn2read just said.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
They were used by everybody. It happens. I don't really care that much one way or the other. He said it was a liberal thing in this case, my point is when someone is killed so young, those are the photos displayed.

Well he said liberals were being manipulative about it just like conservatives. The only difference was the use of child photos. And the truth is, it is manipulative. Doesn't matter how long its happened.

Besides, if the photos of him being used are 6 years old or more, than clearly its meant to manipulate as much as those Natalee Holloway child photos which are, what, 10-15 years old?

Ezenzer said:
The latter group is using fake media. There is no excuse for this. Attempting to equate the two is ridiculous.

This is a fair point, though.
 

bengraven

Member

God damn that's good.

I acknowledged that. Learn to read before you fly off the handle. If there's a pic of Trayvon that's less than flattering the Right is going to use it. If you don't believe that...the fuck is wrong with you?

But it's fucking fake. You're saying fake is just as bad as using a picture of him when he was a young kid?
 
I acknowledged that. Learn to read before you fly off the handle. If there's a pic of Trayvon that's less than flattering the Right is going to use it. If you don't believe that...the fuck is wrong with you?
Jesus, this thread is bringing out the dumb.

You're equating using an accurate photo of Zimmerman (not even a gun pose pic or something), just a pic of his head, to using a fake "thug" photo of someone that wasn't Martin.

WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?
 
The latter group is using fake media. There is no excuse for this. Attempting to equate the two is ridiculous.

Edit: What Learn2read just said.

I've seen no major conservative media site using that pic. If it was real, I have no doubt they would use it though. Instead sites like Foxnews are focusing on how awful they think Obamas comment about Trayvon looking like his son...if he had one. They're also pushing the angle that the law that allowed this idiot to shoot an unarmed kid is a good one and shouldn't be examined/changed. Typical conservative behavior "Sorry this happened, but stay the fuck away from our guns!"
 
Well he said liberals were being manipulative about it just like conservatives. The only difference was the use of child photos. And the truth is, it is manipulative. Doesn't matter how long its happened.

Besides, if the photos of him being used are 6 years old or more, than clearly its meant to manipulate as much as those Natalee Holloway child photos which are, what, 10-15 years old?
One, we've all seen multiple pictures of Trayvon Martin at this point. Show me an example of the liberal media specifically using only old pictures of him. Show me this. The vast majority of sites continue to use two main images: The one with him in the red Hollister shirt and the hoodie face picture. HuffPo, ABC, CNN. They've all used those pictures since day one. And even if they did use child pictures of Trayvon to garner attention/sympathy from their viewers, so the hell what. It's deserved. The kid is dead.

On the other hand we have far right blogs spreading a fake, "thuggish" picture of Martin in an attempt to smear him and his image (and imply Zimmerman had every reason to be suspicious, after all "just look at him"). It's nasty and pretty damn pathetic.

You can't compare the two at all.
 
Jesus, this thread is bringing out the dumb.

You're equating using an accurate photo of Zimmerman (not even a gun pose pic or something), just a pic of his head, to using a fake "thug" photo of someone that wasn't Martin.

WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?

Yeah since you can't comprehend the point that was being made, I must be dumb. Nice logic. I'll just dump you into my ignore list and save everyone the posts of me attempting to explain a concept as simple as media manipulation to you.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
One, we've all seen multiple pictures of Trayvon Martin at this point. Show me an example of the liberal media specifically using only old pictures of him. Show me this. The vast majority of sites continue to use two main images: The one with him in the red Hollister shirt and the hoodie face picture. HuffPo, ABC, CNN. They've all used those pictures since day one. And even if they did use child pictures of Trayvon to garner attention/sympathy from their viewers, so the hell what. It's deserved. The kid is dead.

On the other hand we have far right blogs spreading a fake, "thuggish" picture of Martin in an attempt to smear him and his image (and imply Zimmerman had every reason to be suspicious, after all "just look at him"). It's nasty and pretty damn pathetic.

You can't compare the two at all.

Did you bother reading my edit? I was responding to Devolution's point on child photos in the news, not your point, which I commented on being a fair one.
 
One, we've all seen multiple pictures of Trayvon Martin at this point. Show me an example of the liberal media specifically using only old pictures of him. Show me this. The vast majority of sites continue to use two main images: The one with him in the red Hollister shirt and the hoodie face picture. HuffPo, ABC, CNN. They've all used those pictures since day one. And even if they did use child pictures of Trayvon to garner attention/sympathy from their viewers, so the hell what. It's deserved. The kid is dead.

On the other hand we have far right blogs spreading a fake, "thuggish" picture of Martin in an attempt to smear him and his image (and imply Zimmerman had every reason to be suspicious, after all "just look at him"). It's nasty and pretty damn pathetic.

You can't compare the two at all.

You just used major news sites on the Left as examples of doing a good thing, and compared that to conservative blog sites being evil. Blog sites aren't major conservative news outlets. Is Fox running the fake? Which major con sites are running the fake? I have no doubt they'd run it if it were real, though.
 
But it's fucking fake. You're saying fake is just as bad as using a picture of him when he was a young kid?
Quote where I said using fake pictures is equatable to running shots of him as a young boy. You can't, because I wouldn't. I said both sides use pics, word choice etc etc to manipulate reader emotions in partisan stories like this one.

Edit - is there a way to multi-quote on Secondapps?
 

Onemic

Member
Quote where I said using fake pictures is equatable to running shots of him as a young boy. You can't, because I wouldn't. I said both sides use pics, word choice etc etc to manipulate reader emotions in partisan stories like this one.

Edit - is there a way to multi-quote on Secondapps?

sorry dude
Baconsammy said:
Conservative sites using pics like the one shown to be a fake are just as manipulative as liberal sites using pics of him when he was 11.
 
sorry dude

Nowhere in that sentence do I say they're equatable morally. They're equatable in the regard that they're both attempting to manipulate the emotions of their readers. And if you quote further you find that I say I find one to be far less evil than the other. And my sentence should have been clearer. I didn't mean using fakes was ok. I meant using pics like the fake, if they were actual pictures, in which case Fox etc would run it night and day and their readers and viewers would get nice and lathered up. Manipulation with fakes is obviously unconscionable and evil.
 

Korey

Member
Nowhere in that sentence do I say they're equatable morally. They're equatable in the regard that they're both attempting to manipulate the emotions of their readers. And if you quote further you find that I say I find one to be far less evil than the other. And my sentence should have been clearer. I didn't mean using fakes was ok. I meant using pics like the fake, if they were actual pictures, in which case Fox etc would run it night and day and their readers and viewers would get nice and lathered up. Manipulation with fakes is obviously unconscionable and evil.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/just+as?s=t

"just as manipulative" doesn't mean "both are manipulative" but "the same amount of manipulation"
 

JoeBoy101

Member
Clearly the media is being manipulative by showing some photos of Trayvon before this Thug Mitzvah

Most recent photo of him is from 6 years ago? I'm doubting that. So it is the media being manipulative. Just not as bad as those right wing sites everyone keeps mentioning.

Also, for the Thug Mitzvah, is that where one gets a hoodie?
 
Most recent photo of him is from 6 years ago? I'm doubting that. So it is the media being manipulative. Just not as bad as those right wing sites everyone keeps mentioning.

If this story has legs, we haven't even begun to see the lengths partisan media sites will go to in order to manipulate their readers. My biggest concern is that this story will dominate the upcoming election. It is without a doubt a tragedy, but if it overshadows real issues during the election and debates, that's a real shame.

This is the hoodie I got at my Mitvah:
618cnRLO3FL._SX342_.jpg
 

JoeBoy101

Member
If this story has legs, we haven't even begun to see the lengths partisan media sites will go to in order to manipulate their readers. My biggest concern is that this story will dominate the upcoming election. It is without a doubt a tragedy, but if it overshadows real issues during the election and debates, that's a real shame.

This is the hoodie I got at my Mitvah:
ref=sr_1_3

Well, the story has legs because whether the guy was justified or not (and most signs say no), the police clearly abdicated their responsibility here and did not even do a cursory investigation.

This is the hoodie I got at my Mitvah:

This to me shows how scary and suspicious you are. Get away from me with your chopped up words. Words first, then people.
 
How the fuck is this even seen as a partisan thing? Is it because the kid is black and Obama is or something? Because Fox are fucking scum? Perhaps swathes of conservatives are just latent racists? The right should be uniting with the left on this one if they want to avoid that perception... and to see justice done.

I wasn't following how politics even entered the equation, and I'm finding it even harder to follow why people are being dismissive and downplaying what happened on any side of this...

Politics shouldn't even be a part of this. A kid was murdered. Somebody's little boy, stalked, chased, shot. The killer walks free. Why has nothing happened yet? Seriously fucking disturbing.

I hope this investigation they've set up isn't a white wash and that it yields punishment and decisive action.
 
WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HIS PICTURES!!!??? STOP GRASPING AT IRRELEVANT SHIT AND FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT A KIDS LIFE WAS CUT SHORT.

I mean seriously. Seriously.

Seriously.
 
How the fuck is this even seen as a partisan thing? Is it because the kid is black and Obama is or something? Because Fox are fucking scum? Perhaps swathes of conservatives are just latent racists? The right should be uniting with the left on this one if they want to avoid that perception... and to see justice done.
Bingo. And on the left it's another excuse to call for gun control and for Al Sharpton to point out the inequities minorities face at the hands of the law. I personally find the left's goals to be more noble.
 

Fjord

Member
Hmm I was pretty sickened by the calls for help on the recording I heard but if those were Zimmerman it changes things fairly significantly. Surely the can do some CSI magic and determine who the voice was?
 

JoeBoy101

Member
WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HIS PICTURES!!!??? STOP GRASPING AT IRRELEVANT SHIT AND FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT A KIDS LIFE WAS CUT SHORT.

I mean seriously. Seriously.

Seriously.

Well, I hardly know all the facts of what happened, so talking about it speculatively and issues arising from it are all I can do. I suspect the dude's guilty of murder, but clearly a law enforcement agency needs to investigate.

Thankfully, at least, last I heard, both the Justice Department and the FBI are investigating. I can hope that the police are included for the investigation (as in, BEING looked at) but otherwise, going to wait and see what arises from those investigations.

radioheadrule83 said:
How the fuck is this even seen as a partisan thing? Is it because the kid is black and Obama is or something? Because Fox are fucking scum? Perhaps swathes of conservatives are just latent racists? The right should be uniting with the left on this one if they want to avoid that perception... and to see justice done.

I wasn't following how politics even entered the equation, and I'm finding it even harder to follow why people are being dismissive and downplaying what happened on any side of this...

Politics shouldn't even be a part of this. A kid was murdered. Somebody's little boy, stalked, chased, shot. The killer walks free. Why has nothing happened yet? Seriously fucking disturbing.

I hope this investigation they've set up isn't a white wash and that it yields punishment and decisive action.

Gun politics, racial politics, just general partisan politics, etc. That said, I do really see where a whole bunch of major conservative sites are talking about this case. I'm not familiar with smaller ones, so maybe there, but there's not really that much talk about it.
 
Hmm I was pretty sickened by the calls for help on the recording I heard but if those were Zimmerman it changes things fairly significantly. Surely the can do some CSI magic and determine who the voice was?
Those are shrieks of desperate terror. Listen to Zimmerman's voice on his 911 call, calm as anything, listen to the tone of his voice... Listen to the other call from a neighbor with the shrieks in the background which are silenced, conveniently enough, by the sound of gun fire.... Ask yourself... You really think they need to do any CSI shit?
 

Bgamer90

Banned
WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HIS PICTURES!!!??? STOP GRASPING AT IRRELEVANT SHIT AND FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT A KIDS LIFE WAS CUT SHORT.

I mean seriously. Seriously.

Seriously.

If you are directing that to me, I don't care about the pictures at all. Was just making a point.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Consider that the younger picture of the victim was all the media had? It's not like they have direct access to his facebook account, and if the parents gave the media one picture of him they thought was cute - well... what can you do? Regardless, the media has put out a few more pics now - none of them any more or less threatening than the rest - is that picture of him snowboarding less heart wrenching than that of him at 13?

More importantly Baconsammy, people were all in your business because you painted a false equivelancy between liberal sites and conservative sites. Every form of communication is in some way manipulative, it's more important to look at the intent than focus on that fact.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Wait, how is this a liberal/conservative thing? Do that many conservatives really just not even care about being known as racist?
 

Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325

Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen

SANFORD, Florida | Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:39pm EDT

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager, a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.

Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, shot Trayvon Martin, 17, in what he said was self defense during an altercation in the gated community Zimmerman was watching on February 26 in Sanford, Florida. After attracting little notice initially, the case gained widespread attention, sparking protests and renewing a national debate about race.

"He couldn't stop crying. He's a caring human being," Joe Oliver, 53, a former television news reporter and anchor in Orlando who has known Zimmerman for several years, told Reuters in a telephone interview.

Oliver's wife is a close friend of Zimmerman's mother in law, who told him Zimmerman cried for days in remorse after the shooting. He also spoke directly with Zimmerman on Saturday.

"I mean, he took a man's life and he has no idea what to do about it. He's extremely remorseful about it," Oliver said.

Oliver's account differs from the withering criticism Zimmerman has sustained from demonstrators across the country who have demanded his arrest and accused him of racial bias in targeting Martin.

Celebrities have taken up the cause of justice for the teen, many wearing the "hoodie" or hooded sweatshirt that Martin wore in a style popular with black youth. President Barack Obama said "all of us have to do some soul-searching" as a result of the tragedy.

"I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color," Oliver said.

Sanford police did not arrest Zimmerman, saying the evidence could not disprove his account of self-defense, though the case is under review by a state special prosecutor and the U.S. Justice Department.

Zimmerman dropped out of public view shortly after the shooting and his whereabouts were unknown. The New Black Panther Party, an African American organization taking its name from the radical group of the 1960s, has placed a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.

"All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?" Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don't know the whole story. There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence."

'LEAP TO CONCLUSION'

As a black man, Oliver said minorities are often unfairly treated, but he believed Zimmerman was simply doing his job as a neighborhood watch volunteer by growing suspicious over an unfamiliar person walking through a neighborhood that had suffered some break-ins.

Martin lived in Miami but was with his father on a visit to his father's fiancée's home inside the gated community.

"I understand how they're able to leap to the conclusion. You have a dead teenager. This guy is white so it must be a hate crime. There's going to be evidence to come out that basically will justify George's concern," Oliver said.

"He (Zimmerman) confirmed for me that he was not the aggressor. But I did not go into details as to how it got to that aggressive point," Oliver said.

A lawyer representing the Martin family disputes Zimmerman's self defense claims, saying he "stalked" Martin against the instructions of a 911 operator.

"It seems Joe Oliver and Geraldo Rivera are in agreement that this senseless shooting is somehow Trayvon Martin's fault," Benjamin Crump said, referring to the celebrity journalist's comment that "Trayvon Martin would be alive today but for his hoodie."

"Had Zimmerman simply stayed in his vehicle, Trayvon Martin would be pursuing his dreams," Crump said.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia

Maybe I am different than others here, in that I don't think Zimmerman was racist - or maybe not overtly racist. I feel like he was just a foolish guy pumped up on bravado and the idea of being a cop, and saw an opportunity - and maybe at one point subconsciously made some racial profiling or whatnot. But I don't think he's going around wanting to kill black people or anything. His crime is killing a kid unjustly, the degree of his racism is irrelevant, and I'd rather it not be discussed at all. The police fuck up is important, whether or not he was intoxicated is important, the screaming voice (that if I am honest, I can't imagine belonging to anyone else but the victim) is important. Whether or not he falls on a 2 or a 5 on a 6 point racist scale? Not so important.
 

Chumly

Member
"He (Zimmerman) confirmed for me that he was not the aggressor. But I did not go into details as to how it got to that aggressive point," Oliver said.
This is so ungodly dumb. Zimmerman confirmed that he wasn't the aggressor so it must be true! Straight out of the sanford police handbook.
 
Wait, how is this a liberal/conservative thing? Do that many conservatives really just not even care about being known as racist?

I'd wager conservatives don't think of themselves as racists. They think of themselves as realists. In their minds a neighborhood watch member was assaulted and defended himself and in doing so someone died. Little facts like the police dispatcher telling Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon, or the fact that Trayvon was unarmed seem to get lost. They also like to focus on the fact that he speaks Spanish, insinuating somehow that he isn't white and therefore is not a racist.
 
Typical conservative behavior "Sorry this happened, but stay the fuck away from our guns!"

I think it's more of "let's not make state-wide policy decisions based on a knee-jerk reaction to a single incident whose facts are not even clear yet."

Also, based on what I've read about the available evidence and the character of the shooter, if murder was committed, it sounds that vigilantism is the root cause of it, rather than racism. Of course, I don't know for sure, and there is plenty of evidence I haven't seen. I'm not one to jump to conclusions before I have all the facts.
 

The Lamp

Member
I wonder what he was wearing. None of this is okay and the fact that this shooting happened is sickening, but I wonder if the clothes you wear in a situation like that makes it more or less likely for a paranoid freak like the watch captain in the OP to shoot you. Like, if he was wearing sagging jeans down to his thighs and chains, or if he was wearing a t-shirt and shorts, or what.

Ridiculous, though, because this seems like a stereotype was most definitely placed on Trayvon.
 
I think it's more of "let's not make state-wide policy decisions based on a knee-jerk reaction to a single incident whose facts are not even clear yet."

Also, based on what I've read about the available evidence and the character of the shooter, if murder was committed, it sounds that vigilantism is the root cause of it, rather than racism. Of course, I don't know for sure, and there is plenty of evidence I haven't seen. I'm not one to jump to conclusions before I have all the facts.

One issue that is not a mystery is the fact that he was told not to pursue Trayvon. And yet he pursued him, he pulled a gun on an unarmed boy, and killed him. That is not up for debate. It's also not up for debate that he has a long history of calling 911 for instances that turned out to be nothing at all. And just out of curiosity how many deaths like Trayvon's is enough to justify not allowing neighborhood watch members to carry armed weapons?
 

Dram

Member
I wonder what he was wearing. None of this is okay and the fact that this shooting happened is sickening, but I wonder if the clothes you wear in a situation like that makes it more or less likely for a paranoid freak like the watch captain in the OP to shoot you. Like, if he was wearing sagging jeans down to his thighs and chains, or if he was wearing a t-shirt and shorts, or what.

Ridiculous, though, because this seems like a stereotype was most definitely placed on Trayvon.

He was wearing a hooded jacket. He had the hood up because it was raining.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
I'd wager conservatives don't think of themselves as racists. They think of themselves as realists. In their minds a neighborhood watch member was assaulted and defended himself and in doing so someone died. Little facts like the police dispatcher telling Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon, or the fact that Trayvon was unarmed seem to get lost. They also like to focus on the fact that he speaks Spanish, insinuating somehow that he isn't white and therefore is not a racist.

It just makes no sense whatsoever that it's a political issue. It has as much to do with politics as my dog eating Alpo. I can't even make sense of it becoming a political issue unless people want to proclaim their racism.
 
It just makes no sense whatsoever that it's a political issue. It has as much to do with politics as my dog eating Alpo. I can't even make sense of it becoming a political issue unless people want to proclaim their racism.

I think it's because the first thing that happened when Giffords was shot was immediate blame placed on conservatives by the left wing (as opposed to Obama on Hasan: Let's not be hasty) So now it's a defensive reflex.
 
It just makes no sense whatsoever that it's a political issue. It has as much to do with politics as my dog eating Alpo. I can't even make sense of it becoming a political issue unless people want to proclaim their racism.

It's already a political issue. Can't undo it now. Obama makes a poignant remark about Trayvon looking like him and Newt immediately bashes Obama for making this about race. Republicans are scared about losing their right to carry in Florida. Guns. It's political and will get worse as soon as the right finally decides which clown gets to lose to Obama in November, because it's at that point when the full Republican attack machine will decide on the party-wide message they'll use to fight Obama. Race, guns, Obamacare, birth certificates etc. I might stop watching tv for 6 months.
 

Measley

Junior Member
I really can't believe how many people are backing the shooter in this and tarnishing the reputation of a DEAD 17 year old kid WHO DID NOTHING WRONG.

WTF America?
 
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