childplease
Banned
Everyone knows that if the kid was white people on here would not be raging as hard as they are especially considering how little information actually exists.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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Everyone knows that if the kid was white people on here would not be raging as hard as they are especially considering how little information actually exists.
Its not an assumption.
No 911 call OR non-emergency op is gonna tell someone "go check it out , Bruce, this one looks fishy".
You're the one assuming here.
LaserBuddha
Member
It also would haven never happened if there was no Neighborhood watch to begin with, or if the kid didn't leave his house, or if that community wasn't built, or if guns never existed. Where does your laughable standard of guilt end?
If the kid had pulled out his own gun and shot the NW guy in the face when he approached him, is the NW guy guilty of his own murder? Oops, it looks like you are accidentally supporting extreme Castle Doctrine with your logic.
I'm expecting someone to step in and explain what an assumption is, but they are all probably enjoying the irony too much.
Why is no one reading what I write? Nothing I have said even approaches your bit of hyperbole there.
Does the man approaching the kid to ask questions prevent him from defending himself if he were legally justified in doing so?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I don't see any other reason for him to get out of the car than to confront the kid.
And what a fucking stupid law. To me its like going into a bar and just being a douche until someone has had enough and wants to fight. You let him beat on you awhile then pull out this gun he never knew you had and put one in his head. Hey self defense, dude was beating me up.
If he doesn't get arrested for this, I hope someone gives this vigilante a taste of his own medicine.
Roger Danish
Member
You know, it's a damn shame that "lrn2read" has fallen out of fashion. If ever it was warranted...
I H8 Memes
Member
We dont know for sure what happened yet. If he got out of the car to confront the kid then he is going to jail for sure.
The point of my post was that this law is very broad and makes it difficult to prosecute people who kill someone during a confrontation, and that could be why Zimmerman hasnt been charged yet. They are taking extra time to gather evidence to be sure the charges stick.
http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2012/feb/20/stand-your-ground-law-faces-another-court-test-ar-360570/
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece
We would be arguing about shooting people in the knee and what not. Remember that taser death thread? Girl was white.
Princess Carl
Member
Why do you guys keep trying to be intentionally dense or has the RACIAL HATE CRIME gotten in the way? Is it a hate crime to approach someone? It is a hate crime to argue with someone?
Because that's ALL we know what happened before the shot took place. So i don't know how you are getting racially motivated shooting from approaching someone.
So your argument is in fact that you are prohibited from doing anything the police do not explicitly instruct. You aren't making sense.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Oh man earlier when I read it i thought that some crime had happened in the neighborhood prompting Zimmerman to think Marin was suspicious. But now I see he just assumed he was suspicious. Wow.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
If he was white he would have never thought he was suspicious.
Princess Carl
Member
That has no bearing on the actual shooting
Devolution
Member
I know that we heard a lot about this captain stopping random white kids walking around the neighborhood. Oh wait.
If he was white there never would have been a shooting.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Exactly.
I've brought up race one time. Because its a fact that a black person in a nice neighborhood simply looks out of place to damn near all of America.
I'm not calling it a hate crime. I'm calling it vigilante action.
The kid is walking. Neighborhood Watch calls police, 911, or non-emergency. He ignores the one thing those people always say in "whatever you do, don't put yourself in danger". Neighborhood Watch gets out of his car and confronts the kid - going against everything Neighborhood Watch is about. IRRELEVANT INFO REGARDING MURDER/HATE CRIMES/SELF-DEFENSE/RAPIN OUR WOMENZ/MANSLAUGHTER HERE.
I'm not even talking about that shit in the caps.
That's all the information you need to see that this guy was took matters into his own hands and it led directly to a kid being shot and killed. He has to be at least arrested. That's all I'm asking for at the moment - because the other information is sparse.
LaserBuddha
Member
Since your argument is "We don't know if he's guilty because we don't have all the facts", then the counter-argument would be "We know he's guilty because we do have all the facts". Since that obviously doesn't make sense, the people who have made up their minds have to resort to pretending that you're saying he's innocent. Otherwise they can't argue against your brazen refusal to wield your pitchfork just yet.
Please, don't dance around it, tell me.
matt360
Member
What a shitty thing to read about first thing in the morning. This story is infuriating and I can't imagine that if the child was white and the night watchman was black things wouldn't have played out quite differently. Specifically, the watchman would be in jail. I really feel for this kid and his family, and I hope Zimmerman faces justice.
Also, just so you guys know, Florida isn't all bad.
Also, just so you guys know, Florida isn't all bad.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Most overzealous neighborhood watch ever. I wonder if the dude actually wears a costume.
His crime being getting out of his car and questioning the kid? That's about all we can discern happened. Anything more is a assumption for how this all went down. You're making the same irresponsible assumptions as most in this thread because you already bought the line from the OP that this was just a racist old man pulling a gun on a random black kid. We've gotten more information since then, and it's not so clear cut anymore. The thing is, you may be totally right. This old man could have confronted the kid, gotten physical with him, and then shot him during the altercation. Or he could have confronted the kid, and the kid could have started beating the old man up, such that the old man shot the kid. No one in this thread knows what happened, and there are plenty of ways for it to have gone down. Yet those of us who caution against these wild assumptions get roasted for it.
EDIT:
Exactly.
Fenderputty
Banned
Bingo ...
And I don't give a damn if the kid DID start the fight. Bringing a hand gun to a fist fight and then shooting someone because you're getting your ass kicked is still murder as far as I'm concerned. Unless the kid was beating the Mr. Neighborhood watch to near death, I can't think of a scenario in which he was justified.
Kitschkraft
Member
Unfortunately, from what I understand, racist profiling isn't considered a "hate crime".
Edit : I'm assuming that it offends a civil liberty or two though. Probably Equal protection.
Princess Carl
Member
I guess the hasn't been arrested in over a month part keeps escaping you. Why isn't Obama sending the FBI and National Guard to his house? After all a racially motivated hate crime murder has been committed in cold blood and he WALKS FREE.
quit assuming
So he racially profiled with his gun and shot the suspicious black kid because out of the 5 or 6 kids around him he was the only black one?
And no, "Racial Profiling" in the form of walking up to someone and confronting/talking to them is not a hate crime. I'm sorry.
Zoramon089
Banned
It's hard to when you've got idiots denying the kid was approached for being black when that seems to very much be the case here
Bumblebeetuna
Member
And had he been beating him to near death, there should be known evidence of that.
When you ignore police and the next time the police are called its over a dead kid that you're responsible for - you get cuffed. He may be perfectly within the laws of self defense as you say, but that should be decided after he's held.
You're just arguing devils advocate to pass the time while your brownies cook, I understand, but geez dude.
This story is pulled straight out of the 50s/60s. It is frustrating for some that this is still happening.
Roger Danish
Member
The funny thing is, if the race of the killer and the killed were reversed, we'd see people in this thread complaining that if the race of the killer and the killed were reversed, there would be a national outcry and the killer would never see the light of day again (because reverse-racism).
Sure thing, sweetie. I didn't make any assumptions. What I said was:
Sure thing, sweetie. I didn't make any assumptions. What I said was:
Its frustrating that people think its reasonable that he wasn't even arrested... what in the fuck man...
Devolution
Member
Or that he wasn't even motivated to stop this kid due to his race. What planet am I on. Nothing would have happened if his racist fucking ass stayed in that car.
childplease
Banned
Heck it might have been a hate crime, could have been cold blooded murder. For the moment however there is just far too details.
Approaching the young kid and making contact is perfectly fine. What determines if this man is guilty of manslaughter , murder or was justified in using deadly force for self defense. Is his reasoning for pulling out his gun and planting a single shot to the kids chest.
Sadly this detail is not known at the time which is why everyone here should just chill out for a second and wait for more info to be released before we condemn the man.
So Kharvey, you believe the guy that shot the kid did it in self defense? or are you just playing devils advocate for the hell of it? If the former, you really believe a situation would have occurred where the man would feel his life was so threatened that the only option was to shoot him? A kid that only had the intention of buying skittles, leaving the neighborhood watch guy as the only person who could have started a confrontation with the boy, knowing full well he was told not to?(that is the police dept was dumb and didn't tell him that) That it makes sense that he wasn't even arrested at the very least?
Fenderputty
Banned
Exactlly ... unless the cops showed up and saw a river of blood flowing from his freshly cracked skull, I fail to see how he can justify shooting someone.
It's a fist fight.
Princess Carl
Member
No one has said that. Stopping is not the same as murdering. How does this mix up keep happening?
Kitschkraft
Member
Devolution
Member
It's not his legal obligation to do this and any self-respecting dispatch would have told him to stay the fuck in the car.
This is for you neighborhood watch gaffers. If you stop me in the street in the middle of the night and try to grill me about who I am and why I'm here I will tell you to go fuck yourself and keep it pushing. If you try and stop me I'm fucking decking you period. That's what I imagine happened. You guys need to acknowledge that confronting a fucking stranger in the middle of the night for anything other than asking the time or something is begging to start a fight.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Like the lawyer said,why was he suspicious in the first place?
Seriously. To think that black people in nice neighborhoods don't get those looks is just willful ignorance. Plain and simple.
Combine that with the fact that this guy doesn't even get arrested, and yeah, its just LOOKS really fucked up.
And I'm being really, really conservative about this too. In even the best case scenario, he's batman. And that gets you put in jail. I'm not even harping on the racial shit (yet).
Backwards Marathon
Member
This is why I don't like living in Florida, bad rep from people like this.
If I were that kid, I would be worried I was about to get attacked.
Roger Danish
Member
Just had to point out who Lee was, to quell the "this is only the black kid's lawyer saying all this!!!" crowd.
Because he created the confrontation against the *gasp* recommendation of police. As neighborhood watch, you're opening up a big ass can of worms when you think you're above the law
And it was 911 too? Fucking hell man.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
It wouldn't since 1 of the 2 involved is now laying in the ground.
marathonfool
Member
http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html
This video also mentions the police dispatcher told him to let the police handle the matter.
Sad that a boy died because of a vigilante gunman.
Devolution
Member
Irony of all ironies if the kid thought he was getting mugged since the dude had a gun.
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