Trying to skate uphill, moths to a flame, lemmings attracted by cliffs...some people just can't help themselves
It always amazes me how quickly people rush to dive on their swords in these Anita threads.
Trying to skate uphill, moths to a flame, lemmings attracted by cliffs...some people just can't help themselves
Are you sure, sounded like a male reviewer to me, was wondering why a man was working for a feminist site.
The problem is also that this is a multimillion dollar product that has to appease everyone and not rock the (gaming culture) boat, so what we end up with is a status quo entertainment product that has no bite and doesn't really say anything (other than the status quo is cool)
If it's not the financial risks involved and they actually had free reigns, then I guess it's just the directors and writers of the game who actually want to convey this sort of message
Is a game about the oppression of robot people really ever going to address the real world status quo in any meaningful way though? Like with the X-Men, you were never going to get something that parallels real world struggles in any way other than the most cosmetic and surface level due to the fantastical nature of the source material.
It's silly to criticize something for not having "bite" when it isn't even dealing with real world issues. That's why the scant "aug lives matter" stuff doesn't amount to anything more than background decals. It's very clearly fictional oppression of fictional superpeople in a fictional setting for an over the top fictional reason (50 million people lol).
I don't think anyone here is really arguing this. People seem to be critical of the quality of the story told. Particularly that it seems to mistake nuance with "being in the middle". That's pretty messy whenhandling themes that deal with oppression and especially when it draws clear parallels with various real life anti-oppression movements.Is a game about the oppression of robot people really ever going to address the real world status quo in any meaningful way though? Like with the X-Men, you were never going to get something that parallels real world struggles in any way other than the most cosmetic and surface level due to the fantastical nature of the source material.
It's silly to criticize something for not having "bite" when it isn't even dealing with real world issues. That's why the scant "aug lives matter" stuff doesn't amount to anything more than background decals. It's very clearly fictional oppression of fictional superpeople in a fictional setting for an over the top fictional reason (50 million people lol).
thank you for reminding me about Binfinite's "both sides!" nonsense. yikesI love Petit's writing in general and she is spot on here. It's reminiscent of BioShock Infinite whichwent for the "both sides are monsters" route of cop out storytelling. That Eidos appropriated BLM and iconic examples of apartheid while doing this is as laughable as it is offensive. This game can fuck off into orbit.turned an oppressed group that were little more than slaves, rising up against the white ruling class into child murderers because the writers were cowards and
jensen =/= the game tho"Unfortunately the game lacks any moral convictions and ultimate doesn't have anything to say about the very serious issues that it raises."
Proceeds to play clip of Jensen having a moral conviction and having something to say about the very serious issues that have been raised.
jensen =/= the game tho
This will probably work with abstract philosophical differences and not something that banks on drawing obvious parallels between slavery, Apartheid, Jim Crow, Segregation etc. I'm not asking the game to take a stand but based on the review it does take one one that says "there are both sides to consider here". That's where I think the narrative makes a mistake. It's a lazy cop out that seems to mistake itself for complexity and nuance.The game depicts a world of conflicting ideologies and viewpoints, why should it take a stand wholesale. You already have opposing factions which do have a stand. It's up to the player to decide which is in the right, and it would be bad righting to just tell the player what to think. So instead you should be learning from in-game viewpoints. This Deus Ex game isn't going to be the one where you end up a savior figure that final decides how to set humanity straight, it's about surviving and navigating a ruthless world. Jensen as a vehicle for the player should definitely give the player options to take a stand, or play a more subtle and negotiable agent on the political stage.
Well okayThe moan about the augmented lives matter poster is ridiculous, I've played 30 hours and didn't even notice the poster It's nothing but decoration for the game world and in my view fits anyway, in the world of deus ex augmented people having equal rights is an issue. It's not making light of anything
The moan about the augmented lives matter poster is ridiculous, I've played 30 hours and didn't even notice the poster It's nothing but decoration for the game world and in my view fits anyway, in the world of deus ex augmented people having equal rights is an issue. It's not making light of anything
If you played 30 hours and didn't even notice it, then it doesn't have much of a point does it
so you're saying it could be taken out and the game would be none the worse for it? so it doesn't do anything?Exactly, it's not important at all
Man the story really sounds like shit. I don't remember Human Revolution's story that well but I don't feel it painted eveything as grey.
Exactly, it's not important at all
Agreed. A smarter move is to let the audience draw it's own parallels and not spell them out explicitly.
Damn, this is a really great review by Petit. I wish more reviews would actually deal with the themes of the games they review and take them to task on whether or not they properly execute on their goals.
I love Petit's writing in general and she is spot on here. It's reminiscent of BioShock Infinite whichwent for the "both sides are monsters" route of cop out storytelling. That Eidos appropriated BLM and iconic examples of apartheid while doing this is as laughable as it is offensive. This game can fuck off into orbit.turned an oppressed group that were little more than slaves, rising up against the white ruling class into child murderers because the writers were cowards and
From a somewhat cynical point of view I can see why a game wouldn't make an unequivocal statement about a social issue, especially when playing around with real-world phrases for marketing purposes, to avoid alienating (the wallets of) the segment of their customer base that doesn't view these things favorably.
Well, they are inadvertedly taking the stance that you know, BLM, in the end, has also done some terrorism so they kinda deserve to not be taken seriously. Social movements go against the status quo, so when you make a game that pretty validates the status quo, well...
Or you know, there are people in reality that think that we so they reflect that belligerent nature within the game. Depiction does not equate to affirmation.
No one is really saying that thoOr you know, there are people in reality that think that way so they reflect that belligerent nature within the game. Depiction does not equate to affirmation.
Isn't this kind of an oxymoron? On the one hand, she says that the game fails to make a clear statement. On the other hand, the game has characters talking about killing augs. Wouldn't most humans feel some sort of empathy with the augs in that case? I am not exactly sure if she criticises that the game doesn't say "this is bad" or if it really does not become clear. Huxley's Brave New World also never makes a clear statement on whether its dystopian society is good or bad, and leaves it up to the reader.
Despite the surface veneer of neutrality and the risk of running into a fallacious both sides are equally bad justification, its pretty clear where Deus Ex stands on certain issues.
Yeah, well, there's a few differences, but the core clearly references BLM. The only difference being that black people don't have super powers and aren't a menace to society, but you can see how that can be misconstrued?
The point is that it was a flimsily made point that could've used a bit more thought.
No one is really saying that tho
I don't think anyone here is really arguing this. People seem to be critical of the quality of the story told. Particularly that it seems to mistake nuance with "being in the middle". That's pretty messy whenhandling themes that deal with oppression and especially when it draws clear parallels with various real life anti-oppression movements.
Is there a game nowadays that actually deals with current social or political events with a stance, rather than keeping everything in shades of grey?
Gonna go read about it.Mafia 3?
I don't get the "Story is nothing but shades of grey" complaint. It's pretty typical of Western RPGs and Role Playing Shooters to let the player colour the greys in.
thank you for reminding me about Binfinite's "both sides!" nonsense. yikes
Let us never forget that the protagonisteven thoughliterally calls the oppressors and the rebelling oppressed two sides of the same cointhe only reason the rebellion was even violent in that timeline was because of an alternate version of himself!
Just... fuck Infinite and whoever thought that was a good idea.
Wonder how fast someone will get banned in this thread...
Why do people expect political statements from entertainment products again?
Why do people expect political statements from entertainment products again?
Why do people expect political statements from entertainment products again?
Why do people expect political statements from entertainment products again?