It could be that a Japanese developer releases an online fps to the level of Modern Warfare. But that's going to bomb in Japan surely? It definitely wouldn't get 30m sales, unless it was all overseas. With no interest in Japan for that type of game from the Japanese public, I can't see it ever happening.
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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
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It could be that a Japanese developer releases an online fps to the level of Modern Warfare. But that's going to bomb in Japan surely? It definitely wouldn't get 30m sales, unless it was all overseas. With no interest in Japan for that type of game from the Japanese public, I can't see it ever happening.
DukeTogo1300
Member
So you agree that it is offensive, and see all the Fish apologists backing him up, and the additional unfolding of events with the twitter jackassery, and then the backtracking by Fish, and the discovery of who the Japanese gentleman is and his own twitter feed, and speedpop's amazing recap, and you still think it has to be racial/national bias that drove the thread to such levels of enthusiasm?
There is a lot more to this thread than everyone arguing over the original story. It evolved, Hollywood ending and everything. A lot of people made the discussion about Japan's games being poor or not, and many others actually needed it explained to them what was so offensive about Fish's behavior. I guess I would blame the apologists before the enthusiasts, but that's just me.
That apology is pretty hollow given what a dickhead he was until he found out who it was he slagged off.
Again, all it would've taken was professionalism from someone who is employed by a professional outfit called MICROSOFT to avoid this whole business ever occurring, but that's apparently asking too much of the game industry...
Again, all it would've taken was professionalism from someone who is employed by a professional outfit called MICROSOFT to avoid this whole business ever occurring, but that's apparently asking too much of the game industry...
He's self-employed in the company he founded, Polytron. He has business deals signed with Microsoft, he's not a Microsoft employee. They're not a first or second party studio owned by Microsoft.
It doesn't quite work the way you're fantasizing. I'm just laying out the truth of their relationship. Feel free to research what it entails.
In the 16bit era - "people in the west like beating the crap out of their friends in a fighting game at a seedy arcade in the mall"
In the 32bit era - "people in the west like jumping around on 3D platforms collecting a million different doodads"
In the 64bit era - "people in the west like to drive around running hookers over while rap music plays"
Trends change, and in a few years something else will take the spotlight. Though knowing how trends work, it'll probably be something much worse.
FairXchange
Member
My all-time favourite games are Japanese developed/produced/directed.
RE4, Silent Hill 1-4, Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 9, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls and that's just scratching the surface.
Also just picked up Gravity Daze, which despite the language barrier is enchanting.
I understand some people are disconnected or uninterested in Japanese developed games, but I can only conclude that they're sorely missing out if their choosing to avoid them for the cultural or stylistic differences that make them what they are.
RE4, Silent Hill 1-4, Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 9, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls and that's just scratching the surface.
Also just picked up Gravity Daze, which despite the language barrier is enchanting.
I understand some people are disconnected or uninterested in Japanese developed games, but I can only conclude that they're sorely missing out if their choosing to avoid them for the cultural or stylistic differences that make them what they are.
No, it's not.
You guys are confusing the business details of their relationship with the perception everyone has... the guy has his game associated with Microsoft and he has acted like a d-bag during a professional event and long afterward. That's what matters to Microsoft, regardless of what's printed on paper between the two.
I'm not confusing anything. You said Microsoft was publishing the game and that they're "paying his bills." Which is unsurprisingly, factually wrong. They owe Microsoft nothing but reimbursement for the technical assistance they were provided once they signed an exclusivity deal. That's it. The game is co-published by Trapdoor and Polytron.
Duane Cunningham
Member
As I midwestern American, I don't have any Japanese national pride, and I'm certainly not a "weeaboo". I do get irritated with the ugly menus, ugly UI and shoddy QA of a lot of Western product, however, and I do think that's something that Western devs can still learn from their Japanese counterparts. The general presentation style has gotten better in some cases, thanks to companies like Rockstar, but a lot of games, especially in the FPS, sports and WRPG genres still just throw page after page of junky, clunky menus at you with no explanation of how anything works (outside of random "helpful tips" on loading screens).
Ironically, Dark/Demon's Souls, the poster children of Japanese console success of this generation, are full of glitches, exploits and framerate issues and have some godawful menu driven inventory UIs. I find UI issues more endemic to specific genres rather than which country they come out of.
I didn't say anything about Fez being compared to Oil Spills. Read the post. It was a rant about boycotts. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with Fez or Fish. Geeze. Not once did I mention Fez or Fish in that post. It was a reply to someone saying we should boycott the game. It was my stance on BOYCOTTS. Not on FEZ.
Oppo
Member
are you for real or joking? Vanquish is a hilarious B-tier Gears ripoff. And yeah I own a copy. Rocket-sliding on your ass with janky controls is not all that amazing.
Anyways I really can't believe how much you guys care about what he said, to be on page 50 now. Words are wind. Just gotta relax some more, people talk shit, I would think GAFfers of all people would know how to separate the hyperbole.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
And yet here you are posting in response to someone with whom you disagreed.
AcceptableGhost
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBeL...DvjVQa1PpcFO2lUVLBcwvLe0ASk_X8puwjNLdJm8G2Ec=
B-tier, gears ripoff, and janky are invalid descriptors for Vanquish. Vanquish is a far higher quality single player experience than the Gears games. So is Resident Evil 4. Sorry bro.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
LOL juniors whipping out the weeaboo finger pointing and people trolling Vanquish.
Stay free, Internet, or some shit like that.
Stay free, Internet, or some shit like that.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Fez |OT|: If I Stand Tall it is on the Shoulders of Sucky Giants
The adrenaline from the fight's still got them riled, I'd guess.
I'm sure it will be. And this incident doesn't change that at all.
Your problem is that you consider his frankness to be "dickish".
Japanese dude fully deserved an honest answer.
It's only "dickish" because you don't agree with his opinion.
You call it tactless because you don't like it. You call it rude because you don't want to hear it.
Ask me what I think about Terminator Salvation. It sucks.
Does that make me an asshole? Saying it how it is? Am I expected to waste my breath and time as to why it sucks?
Fish was being frank. More power to him.
Hate on him all you want but you people have to admit that you guys are being douchebags too.
That's all you have to admit.
Agent Unknown
Member
Just make sure it's a Saturday morning on a comfy couch with your game pad and a nice, tall frosty glass of Nestlie's Quik!
JasonUresti
Member
You and Fish are such bad asses.
Yeah, man. It's not even remotely dickish to shame a dude in front of a room full of his colleagues!
Phil Fish was so incredibly out of line it's not even funny. You can be frank and tactful. First of all, he didn't need to use the world's widest brush. Secondly, he could have said, "Japan has produced some great stuff in the past and recently, but many have fallen behind in many regards when it comes to UI, storytelling, controls, and cohesiveness. Obviously there's talent in Japan, but it's time to let go of old conventions."
Still frank, but not dickish.
Morning? I don't know if I like that.
Yeah I know. Using the word "sucks" makes someone a badass. Automatically.
Good point.
If the guy was ashamed that's his problem. Not yours and not Fish's.
The guy had a chance to answer back like "what about japanese games suck?" or "can you go into more detail?".
Maybe the fact that the guy ran out of the room crying is something he should be ashamed of.
faceless007
Member
I'm not really wading into the larger issue but
Wrong. There are perfectly tactful and useful ways to express negative opinions other than "It sucks." Movie critics do it all the time; I don't agree with Ebert on everything, but his bad reviews are still really interesting to read and provide insight as to why he feels the way he does. Throwing out "it sucks" doesn't provide any insight at all, it's just a childish retort. This is entirely regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
Wrong. There are perfectly tactful and useful ways to express negative opinions other than "It sucks." Movie critics do it all the time; I don't agree with Ebert on everything, but his bad reviews are still really interesting to read and provide insight as to why he feels the way he does. Throwing out "it sucks" doesn't provide any insight at all, it's just a childish retort. This is entirely regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
If you want your opinion to be respected you do. It's funny you find the mere prospect of providing supporting arguments a "waste of breath and time."
Why does he have to? What if he doesn't?
Agent Unknown
Member
Come on, you'll be playing a controversial video game and playfully spiting your mom all at the same time! Hehe
EmCeeGramr
Member
Are you 13 years old.
TaroYamada
Member
A more valid comparison would be if you said every American movie made within the past 5 or so years sucked.
I normally disagree with your posts, but I thought you should know I really did laugh.
Tweaked your statement to reflect what I was thinking.
Then he's just being ignorant. Which isn't my problem and I don't care either way.
EmCeeGramr said:
Maybe you should be asking the guy who ran out of a room crying.
Prior to 2003 I would have said the exact same thing to any American asking me what I thought about modern American cars. Yeah there are exceptions there are always exceptions but I would say "your cars suck" if someone asked me what I thought about modern American cars. If the guy wants to ask why or carry the discussion I'd be up for it. If the person runs out crying that's another issue.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think he is. I almost responded to his idiotic regurgitation of the same narrow-minded viewpoints already expressed multiple times in this thread, but I didn't think it would be worth it.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Hilariously pathetic response.
It was at the GDC, an international convention of developers. People expect better from the panels when answering an audience's question than the equivalent answer one would read on a gaming forum or from youtube comments.
Nice try though, but you need to think a little more.
"Professor, what do you think of the big bang theory?"
"It's shit!"
"Why is it shit, professor? Can you go into more detail?"
See how ridiculous this is? This is exactly what happened. You didn't think this through before commenting.
He's a person a lot of indie developers look up to, he was a speaker on a rather major panel at a rather major conference, and he was asked a question by somebody who was hoping to get a genuine answer. There's a huge world of difference between than and making a statement about some random movie on an internet forum.
It's all about context, and if you can't understand that, it's not the fault of the people in this thread.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's even more ridiculous when you realize he's comparing a single film to an entire nation's output in a certain medium.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The bolded part is what makes the Japanese guy's story poetic. His goal with going to GDC was to have a dialog with like minded professionals and enthusiastic programmers, to get real questions and answers.
So the first thing that happens is he runs into a guy who says "U ALL SUCK". A guy on a panel. Who is supposed to be leading the intellectual side of the discussion.
Well played, Canada. Or something.
DukeTogo1300
Member
I'm completely clueless as for what you're trying to achieve repeating this. Either you're just trying to act funny and laugh at other users, or you're just plain ignorant about what actually happened.
Either way, just for your information, the guy actually didn't run out of the room. And why would you want to engage in a discussion with someone that at the time didn't seem to be capable of expressing his opinions in a neutral way without being plain insulting?
You're aware that he apologized afterwards, right? So you're not defending or agreeing with anyone.
Crazy how this is still going down and people fail to realize what GDC is. It is a conference for PEERS to discuss game development. In any other profession where someone would directly belittle another in front of a forum of peers, the person making the comments would be regretting what they said. In a way, I am glad at least GAF is talking about this as it is something that hurts the perception of developers and of indie developers specifically.
Have you ever been to a conference? It's not like he can go into an essay for each and every question.
It was a nice "first response". A "TDLR" version if you will.
You see in these environments the moderator typically asks the panel to keep their answers short and concise. Getting into a rant doesn't help anyone here.
The fact that he didn't run out of the room doesn't matter here. We want to paint a picture of a Japanese guy who can't emotionally handle any negative statement. We want to make him look weak. By repeating this I can make it a reality.
Just like how people keep repeating the idea that Fish's response was vile and insulting. When the reality was that it was just frank.
Warm Machine
Member
As a Canadian game developer I don't appreciate that.
I like how anything over one sentence is an essay. Your position is as weak as Fish's tact. Let it go.
EmCeeGramr
Member
What the hell are you talking about? What sort of desperate backpedaling is this?
I like how I didn't say that and yet you insinuate that I did. You were saying something about weak arguments?
Talking about your tactics. Interpreting Fish's actions to be something other than what it was and then repeating it ad nauseum.
Look folks we are getting off topic here.
The real discussion is...was Fish being rude or being frank?
I sit in the "frank" side. Many of you obviously don't. But what I find interesting is that those claiming "rude" are being rude themselves.
And its that observation that seems to have tickled you folks in the wrong way.
Maybe because it's true.
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