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[not psycho]

The fact that he didn't run out of the room doesn't matter here. We want to paint a picture of a Japanese guy who can't emotionally handle any negative statement. We want to make him look weak. By repeating this I can make it a reality.

So you're saying your other posts were sort of like an art project. You didn't mean it literally when you said he ran out of the room crying. You were making an artistic statement. It wasn't a good post, wasn't a fun post to read, but it sure was arty.

(hope you don't expect any awards for it)

 

[Big-E]

I like how I didn't say that and yet you insinuate that I did. You were saying something about weak arguments?

You are the one mentioning how they are short on time yet what is to stop him from saying a sentence or two as an answer?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Talking about your tactics. Interpreting Fish's actions to be something other than what it was and then repeating it ad nauseum.

No you're not, you honestly thought the dude ran out of the room in order to insult him and defend Fish, and now you're backpedaling with a limp and nonsensical excuse.

Yes, pull our strings O Puppetmaster.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And its that observation that seems to have tickled you folks in the wrong way.

Maybe because it's true.

What a sage!

Internet badasses, man. How do they still exist after all this time?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

This guy comes off as an obnoxious dick but all this did was make me check out his game which, admittedly, looks fantastic.

 

[Codeblue]

Have you ever been to a conference? It's not like he can go into an essay for each and every question.

It was a nice "first response". A "TDLR" version if you will.

You see in these environments the moderator typically asks the panel to keep their answers short and concise. Getting into a rant doesn't help anyone here.



The fact that he didn't run out of the room doesn't matter here. We want to paint a picture of a Japanese guy who can't emotionally handle any negative statement. We want to make him look weak. By repeating this I can make it a reality.

Just like how people keep repeating the idea that Fish's response was vile and insulting. When the reality was that it was just frank.

You can be frank and insulting. There was also a way to be frank without being insulting.

I don't think you understand the concept of professionalism, respect for your peers, or tact. Fish himself said he wishes he hadn't been so rude.

I don't think Fish meant to be insulting, I think he just lacks social awareness and handled it horribly right until he apologized in a non-backhanded way, which is where this story should have ended.

 

[faceless007]

Tweaked your statement to reflect what I was thinking.

So just because you declare something that is obviously a matter of widespread contention and debate as evidenced by this thread and elsewhere to be "obvious," there's no point in presenting supporting arguments for it? Good luck with that, see if you change anyone's mind.

 

[Stinkles]

So a guy said something obviously rude. Then later realized how rude it was and apologized. This I get. Storm in teacup. What I don't get is why people are white knighting and denying the now objectively indisputable rudeness.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

This guy comes off as an obnoxious dick but all this did was make me check out his game which, admittedly, looks fantastic.

Yep, it looks great...especially all those elements influenced by Japanese game design.

 

[Kade]

Yep, it looks great...especially all those elements influenced by Japanese game design.

Of course it's inspired by Japanese games, just not the MODERN ones he said were "fucking awful".

 

[Riposte]

The platforming in Fez looks very, very basic (with instant respawns on top of it). The spinning / perspective thing has potential for puzzles, but I feel like games have already done that in a far more ambitious fashion (e.g. echochrome - which did blow my mind a bit when I first played it). If the game doesn't throw a bunch of new mechanics at you while you progress, it is going to be a dull game, albeit a kind of pretty one. (That said, it will probably be awarded with a crapload of awards and be considered one of the best games of the year by a lot of journos.)

 

[IrishNinja]

So a guy said something obviously rude. Then later realized how rude it was and apologized. This I get. Storm in teacup. What I don't get is why people are white knighting and denying the now objectively indisputable rudeness.

i thought EmCeeGramr established this, before Iknos spent several posts proving the point: when you're 13, being needlessly rude is "frank" and "honest".
maybe they're just to real for you, OuterWorld.

 

[Iknos]

You are the one mentioning how they are short on time yet what is to stop him from saying a sentence or two as an answer?

Where is this "sentence or two" coming from?

No you're not, you honestly thought the dude ran out of the room in order to insult him and defend Fish, and now you're backpedaling with a limp and nonsensical excuse.

Yes, pull our strings O Puppetmaster.

Now you're just proving my point because you are being dishonest about what I'm saying.

Only proving my point that:

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

Look. It's quite obvious that none of you have a bone to pick with my argument. None of you have demonstrated that he was being intentionally insulting.

That is only your perception that you have propagated through repetition.

I don't think Fish meant to be insulting, I think he just lacks social awareness and handled it horribly right until he apologized in a non-backhanded way, which is where this story should have ended.

Completely agree.

He sees now that people misconstrued his answer. I too can see how people can consider it rude. And I don't have problem with people saying that what Fish did was rude.

What I've taken exception to mainly is the double standard here when it comes to insulting people.

You can call him a douchebag/asshole/non-talented/whatever...that is allowed because of the "context". That means anyone who says that stuff is not a douchebag because they are on a forum which has the magical power of lessening an act of rudeness.

 

[Feep]

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

He told a person he should consider his peer that his output was awful, and even worse, he painted an entire country of game designers, a number easily in the thousands, with the same broad brush. It would be like me saying all black people are horrible at skiing because I saw a few take a tumble on the slopes. I am allowed to dislike him because I am directly reacting to something he personally did, and have no need to treat him with respect in a professional forum of industry. Whether or not he meant to insult that man, it's clear he's an arrogant asshole regardless.

You need to learn a few things.

 

[Agent Unknown]

The fact that he didn't run out of the room doesn't matter here. We want to paint a picture of a Japanese guy who can't emotionally handle any negative statement. We want to make him look weak. By repeating this I can make it a reality.

Just like how people keep repeating the idea that Fish's response was vile and insulting. When the reality was that it was just frank.

Where is this "sentence or two" coming from?



Now you're just proving my point because you are being dishonest about what I'm saying.

Only proving my point that:

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

Look. It's quite obvious that none of you have a bone to pick with my argument. None of you have demonstrated that he was being intentionally insulting.

That is only your perception that you have propagated through repetition.



Completely agree.

He sees now that people misconstrued his answer. I too can see how people can consider it rude. And I don't have problem with people saying that what Fish did was rude.

What I've taken exception to mainly is the double standard here when it comes to insulting people.

You can call him a douchebag/asshole/non-talented/whatever...that is allowed because of the "context". That means anyone who says that stuff is not a douchebag because they are on a forum which has the magical power of lessening an act of rudeness.

 

[udivision]

You can call him a douchebag/asshole/non-talented/whatever...that is allowed because of the "context". That means anyone who says that stuff is not a douchebag because they are on a forum which has the magical power of lessening an act of rudeness.

As dumb as it sounds... it does make sense. I'd rather be called names on an forum by anonymous people than travel half the world to be insulted in person and in public. I'm not saying that was Fish's intent or that the dev should've taken the comment personally. Just that context can affect things...

 

[Dresden]

Some people in this thread have no idea what tact is.

I don't mean something like the clima-tact, either.

 

[IrishNinja]

Only proving my point that:

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

Look. It's quite obvious that none of you have a bone to pick with my argument. None of you have demonstrated that he was being intentionally insulting.

whether the speaker intended them to be rude, or was so socially stunted as to not know any better, isn't really relevant: it was a rude and ignorant statement which, again, he doubled down on via twitter.

just like you don't seem to be aware with your quote here that equivocation is very much a logical fallacy (and a poor foundation for an argument), but you being unaware does not somehow make this any less the case.

You can call him a douchebag/asshole/non-talented/whatever...that is allowed because of the "context". That means anyone who says that stuff is not a douchebag because they are on a forum which has the magical power of lessening an act of rudeness.

here's another winner that, if the bar was higher, would've died by page 3: expecting a largely anonymous internet forum to be held to the same standard as someone claiming to be an industry professional, speaking at a developer conference, means you either don't regard the industry very high, or have a vastly overinflated sense of worth amongst your fellow forum members.
neither makes any sense, or has any place in this discussion.

 

[HK-47]

Ahah Iknos getting verbally brutalized in here.

 

[IrishNinja]

yeah, i felt a bit bad after seeing Feep & co go in too, but, you know? you plant your flag on something like this, i expect this is the reaction you're looking for.

 

[Brofist]

While this guy is totally in the wrong seems like a lot of people in here are taking it quite personal, taking offense to his opinion as much as the action itself.

 

[vareon]

You see in these environments the moderator typically asks the panel to keep their answers short and concise. Getting into a rant doesn't help anyone here.

No, moderators want the discussion to be healthy and informative. That response did not enforce either.

 

[freddy]

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

It's such a shame you can't bold that anymore than it already is. You might just sway a few opinions.

 

[Heart of Black]

I really don't know what the guy at the mic thought he was going to hear. I mean, the current trend of Japanese games in general has been a downward spiral. Inafune has said it, and many others have too.

It was a fucked up way to put it though.

 

[Iknos]

He told a person he should consider his peer that his output was awful, and even worse, he painted an entire country of game designers, a number easily in the thousands, with the same broad brush. It would be like me saying all black people are horrible at skiing because I saw a few take a tumble on the slopes. I am allowed to dislike him because I am directly reacting to something he personally did, and have no need to treat him with respect in a professional forum of industry. Whether or not he meant to insult that man, it's clear he's an arrogant asshole regardless.

You need to learn a few things.

Yeah I need to learn how all of that typing somehow counters my point. I understand that you could see it as rude. I don't agree but I can see where you are coming from. I can understand that you can think he is rude and proclaim it from the nearest available mountain. What I don't get is why you are allowed to commit an act of rudeness too.

So I'm not putting words in your mouth...are you telling me that you should be able to call people names because you don't like what they did, even though you are doing something worse?

Please note for the record that he didn't call the Japanese guy an asshole. I can see why people called Fish rude but Fish didn't resort to name-calling himself.

here's another winner that, if the bar was higher, would've died by page 3: expecting a largely anonymous internet forum to be held to the same standard as someone claiming to be an industry professional, speaking at a developer conference, means you either don't regard the industry very high, or have a vastly overinflated sense of worth amongst your fellow forum members.
neither makes any sense, or has any place in this discussion.

I absolutely love how some of you are attempting to dance around the issue here.

You are attempting to excuse name-calling and poor behavior and not only that but are claiming that it has no place in this discussion. It has everything to do with this issue.

You people look up to these developers and hold them to a high standard yet not holding yourself to any standard.

And all I'm saying is that is pathetic.

Ahah Iknos getting verbally brutalized in here.

I don't care about what they say to me. They can insult me all they want. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't addressing my points and my argument still remains uncontested. I don't have an ego. I'm confident in my accomplishments and I really don't know what other people here have accomplished in their lives.

All I know is that I'm pointing out some hypocrisy here and people are coming out in droves attempting to discredit me but not my point.

And I will try my best not to stoop down to their level too. That would be the very thing I'm pointing out.

 

[Maxrunner]

Was this recorded? Youtube?

 

[Feep]

Yeah I need to learn how all of that typing somehow counters my point. I understand that you could see it as rude. I don't agree but I can see where you are coming from. I can understand that you can think he is rude and proclaim it from the nearest available mountain. What I don't get is why you are allowed to commit an act of rudeness too.

So I'm not putting words in your mouth...are you telling me that you should be able to call people names because you don't like what they did, even though you are doing something worse?

Please note for the record that he didn't call the Japanese guy an asshole. I can see why people called Fish rude but Fish didn't resort to name-calling himself.

Of course I can call people names because I don't like something they did. But Fish DID NOT KNOW WHO THIS MAN WAS. Just because he had anecdotally disliked a few recent Japanese games does not mean he can, in a place of industry, insult thousands of people blindly and one man directly. For the record, I actually agree with him, but there's a proper way to express that opinion as a professional.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather someone call me an asshole than someone tell me my and my entire country's work in my field of passion is shitty. Namecalling is not "worse" than what he did. And it's not like this was just a slip of the tongue. Continued Twitter douchebaggery just amplified the situation.

 

[IrishNinja]

I absolutely love how some of you are attempting to dance around the issue here.

You are attempting to excuse name-calling and poor behavior and not only that but are claiming that it has no place in this discussion. It has everything to do with this issue.

You people look up to these developers and hold them to a high standard yet not holding yourself to any standard.

And all I'm saying is that is pathetic.

you should really look up equiovaction, then logical fallacies.
we're an an impasse, because you somehow think it's logically consistent that industry professionals at a game developer conferene should be held the to the same standard as you & i are, again, on a largely anonymous gaming forum. it's like there's no call for professionalism in your mind.

so let's try an exercise.

IrishNinja and Ikons are GAF members, and nobodies in the industry. They tell people, in this thread, to suck their dicks (LOL).

Feep - you might not be aware, but he's a GAF member and an indie dev. Someone emails him inquring about his game, he says: suck my dick.

your boy Fish tells another indie dev, again at a gaming dev conference, his region's games suck. he then goes on twitter and tells folks: suck my dick (twice).

someone you hold in high regard asks Kaz for sony's sales figures. He buys a blimp that flies over this guy's house and says: We sold lots, suck my dick.

Is there any difference between these examples? does position in the industry and venue change anything for you, or are all the same thing somehow>

I don't care about what they say to me. They can insult me all they want. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't addressing my points and my argument still remains uncontested. I don't have an ego. I'm confident in my accomplishments and I really don't know what other people here have accomplished in their lives.

All I know is that I'm pointing out some hypocrisy here and people are coming out in droves attempting to discredit me but not my point.

And I will try my best not to stoop down to their level too. That would be the very thing I'm pointing out.

whoah, man - slow down, we need that cross for wood.
before you get high & mighty about personal insults:

The people ragging on Fish are douchebags too.

you're the one slinging em. I didn't call anyone pathetic either.

 

[Iknos]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather someone call me an asshole than someone tell me my and my entire country's work in my field of passion is shitty. Namecalling is not "worse" than what he did. And it's not like this was just a slip of the tongue. Continued Twitter douchebaggery just amplified the situation.

Good points. I don't agree with them but I appreciate where you are coming from. I would much rather someone call my industry's work shitty...which I face almost regularly from people and then I call them out on it. Which is what the Japanese guy should have done.

you should really look up equiovaction, then logical fallacies.
we're an an impasse, because you somehow think it's logically consistent that industry professionals at a game developer conferene should be held the to the same standard as you & i are, again, on a largely anonymous gaming forum. it's like there's no call for professionalism in your mind.

so let's try an exercise.

IrishNinja and Ikons are GAF members, and nobodies in the industry. They tell people, in this thread, to suck their dicks (LOL).

Feep - you might not be aware, but he's a GAF member and an indie dev. Someone emails him inquring about his game, he says: suck my dick.

your boy Fish tells another indie dev, again at a gaming dev conference, his region's games suck. he then goes on twitter and tells folks: suck my dick (twice).

someone you hold in high regard asks Kaz for sony's sales figures. He buys a blimp that flies over this guy's house and says: We sold lots, suck my dick.

Is there any difference between these examples? does position in the industry and venue change anything for you, or are all the same thing somehow>

They are all acts in where one person has proclaimed to an audience "suck my dick".

Could be an audience of one. Or three. Or ten thousand.

The action is still the same.

The size of the audience doesn't change the action. Or the intent. Or purpose. The action might have more of an effect. Bigger audience means more victims. But I'm not talking about the end result. I'm talking about the action.

you're the one slinging em. I didn't call anyone pathetic either.

I called the action pathetic. Not you or anyone else. I've been nothing but a true gentleman to you and your colleagues. I said "that" is pathetic. Not "you all" or "those people are" or whatever.

 

[mltplkxr]

No game released yet, and already a 50+ page thread on Gaf. I'd say this guy is promising!

 

[Krev]

Lying about the situation to prove your point. Good stuff
...
Don't talk about my social skills when your dishonesty is obvious.

But let's play your game and say the environments are different. Doesn't change the fact that a rude act is a rude act. ...

Where did I lie about anything? Fuck off with that bullshit.

On the other hand, you keep throwing out this crap about the Japanese developer running out of the room 'crying' on this page. Give me a break.

As Tellaerin (not to mention many posters on this page) pointed out, the situations really aren't remotely comparable, and bashing Fish for being a douchebag doesn't make one a douchebag.

 

[IrishNinja]

Good points. I don't agree with them but I appreciate where you are coming from. I would much rather someone call my industry's work shitty...which I face almost regularly from people and then I call them out on it. Which is what the Japanese guy should have done.

does english not at all being his first language not affect things? there's subjectivity here, is what i'm hoping you're seeing.

They are all acts in where one person has proclaimed to an audience "suck my dick".

Could be an audience of one. Or three. Or ten thousand.

The action is still the same.

The size of the audience doesn't change the action. Or the intent. Or purpose. The action might have more of an effect. Bigger audience means more victims. But I'm not talking about the end result. I'm talking about the action.

this this is where we divide.
you don't get to say or do things without thinking - or at the very least, feeling - consequences of such. you're not even arguing intent here - you're simply arguing action, which is really odd. if we could remove action from reaction, we'd be speaking in a vacuum, with no continuity at all.
...i think the only time i encountered this logic was the guy in Shin Megami Nocturne who wanted a world of stillness. i have no idea what to do with that, so i'm gonna let it go, man.

I called the action pathetic. Not you or anyone else. I've been nothing but a true gentleman to you and your colleagues. I said "that" is pathetic. Not "you all" or "those people are" or whatever.

fair enough, but your thesis here seems to be pointing out the hypocrisy of others for calling Fish on being a d-bag. you then took the high horse argument saying you'd not sling insults, a few posts after you just did.

 

[Dresden]

No game released yet, and already a 50+ page thread on Gaf. I'd say this guy is promising!

there is no such thing as bad publicity hur hur hur

 

[Anteater]

there is no such thing as bad publicity hur hur hur

I seriously don't know what Fez is until this major thread, well I've heard of the game and saw it mentioned but didn't really look into it, now I feel like I should give it a try when it comes out, but it's not on pc

So I guess he's getting some good publicity from this =P

 

[PK Gaming]

Some people in this thread have no idea what tact is.

I don't mean something like the clima-tact, either.

(guffaws loudly)

I knew there was a reason why I loved you, and I'm not saying because I ate the mero-mero fruit either!

 

[Iknos]

Where did I lie about anything? Fuck off with that bullshit.

Wowowowow watch your language dude! No need to get all "fuckitty" on me.

On the other hand, you keep throwing out this crap about the Japanese developer running out of the room 'crying' on this page. Give me a break.

That was used to demonstrate something not to counter a point you've made. Big difference.

How come context only works for one side of an argument and then dismissed if its used against you. hmmm

As Tellaerin (not to mention many posters on this page) pointed out, the situations really aren't remotely comparable, and bashing Fish for being a douchebag doesn't make one a douchebag.

Just because more people say or think one way means it is the right way of thinking?

Sorry I don't subscribe to that.

I just see people calling Fish an asshole/douchebag/whatever. I know that calling other people names is a bad thing to do. You can call what Fish did rude and stuff but name-calling is nasty stuff and there hasn't been any argument here that demonstrates otherwise. I don't care how many people you point to...

 

[Mik2121]

Wowowowow watch your language dude! No need to get all "fuckitty" on me.

He was just being frank. Aren't you a fan of that?

 

[The_End]

I seriously don't know what Fez is until this major thread, well I've heard of the game and saw it mentioned but didn't really look into it, now I feel like I should give it a try when it comes out, but it's not on pc

So I guess he's getting some good publicity from this =P

Yeah I'd never even heard of this guy or his game either. I can't really say that this little incident is a plus in his favor, but if the game is decent, I won't let it get in the way either. Hopefully he changes his mind about having it on PC though. Because I've all but given up on the consoles.

 

[Keikaku]

Fish was rude and out of line, especially given the context.

Iknos is extremely literal and, apparently, lacking in common sense and reasoning abilities.

 

[Iknos]

Iknos is extremely literal and, apparently, lacking in common sense and reasoning abilities.

Would you mind sharing exactly why you feel that way?

Or do you want to join the list of people who can't explain why vicious name-calling is acceptable depending on who the target is?

He was just being frank. Aren't you a fan of that?

Frank I'm cool with. Fukkity I ain't.

 

[Keikaku]

Would you mind sharing exactly why you feel that way?

Or do you want to join the list of people who can't explain why vicious name-calling is acceptable depending on who the target is?

I feel that way because I've read all of the other posts, many of which I agree with, that numerous other posters have made detailing in exacting detail why Fish was wrong.

I've also read, with ever increasing wonder and incredulity, your own posts where you stumble through the magical, mystical and apparently utterly confusing lands of reason and argument and fail at every opportunity to see the situation from anything other than your incredibly narrow viewpoint.

I'll follow your lead and say that I don't want to waste my time and breath further detailing why you need to acquire better reading comprehension and reasoning skills. Also, I shouldn't be expected to.

Please don't hate me-I'm only saying it how it is. I'm being frank.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

How rude.

But when you compare japan of old to japan to today i cant deny there is a little nugget of truth here.

 

[Iknos]

I feel that way because I've read all of the other posts, many of which I agree with, that numerous other posters have made detailing in exacting detail why Fish was wrong.

None of those posts have anything to do with what I'm saying...so why bring this up? Let us assume that this person is rude. I've made it clear that I don't agree with that but for the sake of my point when it comes to the double standard here let's just say he was rude.

I'm asking what excuses some people from being rude and not others?

I've also read, with ever increasing wonder and incredulity, your own posts where you stumble through the magical, mystical and apparently utterly confusing lands of reason and argument and fail at every opportunity to see the situation from anything other than your incredibly narrow viewpoint.

This isn't an argument. This is entire paragraph is an attempt to avoid answering my question. Plus aren't you the one opposed to my literalness. Wouldn't you rather fantasy magical zones like "message board" that somehow give people immunity from douchebaggery? Interesting choice of words since you seem to be aligning yourself with those who have argued for that.

I'll follow your lead and say that I don't want to waste my time and breath further detailing why you need to acquire better reading comprehension and reasoning skills.

Please don't hate me-I'm only saying it how it is. I'm being frank.

You are dancing around my question. Come on people.

It's a simple question.

You should know that I hate bolding stuff and I had to in this thread and another because it almost feels like some of you are squirming away from facing the music. So here goes:

What excuses some people from being rude and not others?

People have attempted to argue context but that falls flat on its face because we are talking about intent and not the end result.

People here call Fish an asshole because of his comments. Fish says modern Japanese games "suck" because of sucky Japanese games. Both have their motives for their statements. You may not agree with the motives but that's besides the point.

Fish attacked games and not the questioner directly. I appreciate the view that by attacking games he attacked the individual though I don't agree with this.

People here attack Fish directly. Sometimes his game but mostly him. Name-calling that goes outside the realm of attacking his actions. Which should be fair game. Everyone should be able to say it was a rude act.

So I'm spreading out the facts as is and its time for people like yourself Keikaku to formulate an argument based on logic and reasoning and tell me why its ok for people to put down a developer they think is rude but not for a developer to put down modern japanese videogames.

 

[daycru]

The projection is hilarious.

 

[cartman414]

It's at least been stated once that he was basically blanketing an entire development community, not simply a bunch of games.

 

[Togglesworlh]

Maybe you should be asking the guy who ran out of a room crying.

Who ran out of the room crying? He walked away from the mic looking sad and dejected - far from an unreasonable reaction to Fish's comments - but not crying - which, even if he was... so what? Fish cried during Indie Game: The Movie.

P.S. He sat back down. In the room. Next?

Frank I'm cool with. Fukkity I ain't.

Fish said Japanese games "fucking suck".

P.S. I know this for a fact because I was there. Next?


...


I feel somewhat weird suddenly being on the opposite side of the fence from defending Fish (which I was only half-doing, I guess, but let's just say I was all the way behind him), but Iknos, you are an ignorant manchild worse than anything of which people are accusing Fish. At least he wasn't being hypocritical on TOP of being ignorant. Grow up, please.

I seriously don't know what Fez is until this major thread, well I've heard of the game and saw it mentioned but didn't really look into it, now I feel like I should give it a try when it comes out, but it's not on pc

So I guess he's getting some good publicity from this =P

Worry not, my friend! Fish appears to be somewhat positive regarding a PC port. I expect the only reason it's not announced is due to the Microsoft XBLA exclusivity contract he signed years ago to receive the funding (which has long since dried). Provided MS doesn't fuck with him through cert, as they allegedly did to Team Meat during SMB's cert, Fez should be out soon, and then the clock for exclusivity will start ticking.

 

[Iknos]

Who ran out of the room crying? He walked away from the mic looking sad and dejected - far from an unreasonable reaction to Fish's comments - but not crying - which, even if he was... so what? Fish cried during Indie Game: The Movie.

P.S. He sat back down. In the room. Next?

You missed the point about that thing about him running out of the room crying being part of a narrative that is manufactured.

I mean if that simple matter went over your head...

Oh and you realize the name-calling only proves my point? Whatever happened to good ol' logical arguments...the world is a changin'

 

[Togglesworlh]

You missed the point about that thing about him running out of the room crying being part of a narrative that is manufactured.

I mean if that simple matter went over your head...

Oooh, so you're fabricating up some o' dat ol' fashioned bullshit to prove a point. That's fair and reasonable.

You lost the right to good ol' logical arguments when you stopped using them yourself.

 

[Jocchan]

I can't decide if Iknos's apparent lack of ability to understand the meaning of tact and professionalism, as shown by his posts here, is hilarious or sad.

 

[abrack08]

None of those posts have anything to do with what I'm saying...so why bring this up? Let us assume that this person is rude. I've made it clear that I don't agree with that but for the sake of my point when it comes to the double standard here let's just say he was rude.

I'm asking what excuses some people from being rude and not others?



This isn't an argument. This is entire paragraph is an attempt to avoid answering my question. Plus aren't you the one opposed to my literalness. Wouldn't you rather fantasy magical zones like "message board" that somehow give people immunity from douchebaggery? Interesting choice of words since you seem to be aligning yourself with those who have argued for that.



You are dancing around my question. Come on people.

It's a simple question.

You should know that I hate bolding stuff and I had to in this thread and another because it almost feels like some of you are squirming away from facing the music. So here goes:

What excuses some people from being rude and not others?

People have attempted to argue context but that falls flat on its face because we are talking about intent and not the end result.

People here call Fish an asshole because of his comments. Fish says modern Japanese games "suck" because of sucky Japanese games. Both have their motives for their statements. You may not agree with the motives but that's besides the point.

Fish attacked games and not the questioner directly. I appreciate the view that by attacking games he attacked the individual though I don't agree with this.

People here attack Fish directly. Sometimes his game but mostly him. Name-calling that goes outside the realm of attacking his actions. Which should be fair game. Everyone should be able to say it was a rude act.

So I'm spreading out the facts as is and its time for people like yourself Keikaku to formulate an argument based on logic and reasoning and tell me why its ok for people to put down a developer they think is rude but not for a developer to put down modern japanese videogames.

Why on earth would you want to remove context? Forgive me if you've explained this already, as I have only read a few pages through this thread.

Context is one of the most important deciding factors in whether or not something is "ok".

Punching someone? Not okay.
Punching someone who's running at you with a knife? Okay. Self defense and all that.

There's nothing wrong with calling someone a douchebag if they are doing something... douchey. Of course, this is the internet, and I'm sure many people went over the line, but simply calling Fish an "asshole" or "douchebag" based on an asshole/douchebag comment he made is okay by me.

Unless you truly believe what I'm sure your mom always told you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...", which is more of a teaching tool and not an absolute rule.

EDIT: I also just noticed that you called the people who insulted Fish douchebags, which... puts you exactly on their level. I don't understand what argument you could possibly have after that. It's not okay for Fish to be mean, and it's not okay for people to be mean to Fish, but it's okay for you to be mean to the people who were mean to Fish?