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FFXV and the mismarketing in its trailers. Discuss! (spoilers).

Skyo20

Neo Member
Thanks op for creating this thread. Such a bad practice to put promo vids outs when its not actual footage from the product-AT ALL. Misleading and leaves a bad reputation for them. But hey, they have your money and gives you hope it'll be in the dlc!...
FF16 will be a fresh start for the company -and the cycle begins anew.
 

KupoNut

Member
I agree; What a shitty waste of 10 years. It's no wonder almost everyone is turning towards Horizon: Zero Dawn as the next big RPG now.

Horizon Zero Dawn seems closer to an adventure game and not a real RPG, definitely not as big or intricate as FFXV. I'm still seeing plenty of people on social media enjoy FFXV, and it's definitely not a waste this game happened, neither was it 10 years in development.
 
But the game changed directors and had a troubled development.

How many people follow those trailers? Those are for crazy diehards.

I'm a big FF fan and still haven't seen a trailer of the game since it was announced as Versus.

Joe Gamer probably can't tell the difference.

Trailers should be the least concern, you don't need them to notice that the story has cuts everywhere.

You won't notice missing locations and gameplay stuff though.
 
I feel that the only output that should be scrutinized would be trailers shown immediately before or during the game actually being sold.
 

YAWN

Ask me which Shakespeare novel is best
Bloody hell, most of the scenes OP posted are what I know of the game.
Are you telling me all that content was cut? Thats just insane.
 
And I'm sorry, complaining about cut-scenes showing up in trailers and not in the game is precisely analogous to bemoaning scenes in movie trailers not being present/represented by alternate takes, in the released version. i.e. something that happens all the freakin' time and noone bats an eyelid about, because that's how the creative process works.

Oh man, my 12 year old self was furious when the trailer for The Simpsons Movie featured so many scenes that wound up on the cutting room floor (didn't even make it onto the DVD).
 

Koozek

Member
But the game changed directors and had a troubled development.

How many people follow those trailers? Those are for crazy diehards.

I'm a big FF fan and still haven't seen a trailer of the game since it was announced as Versus.

Joe Gamer probably can't tell the difference.
This. Several of my friends who game a lot, but don't spend time on forums, got FFXV and knew nothing about all this Stella and "Nomura's Glorious Vision™ was destroyed!" thing. They saw some of the trailers, were hyped, got the game, played it, loved it, done.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
The amount of stuff missing from Tabata's own trailers is staggering. What was the point of the Dawn trailer again?
 
And I'm sorry, complaining about cut-scenes showing up in trailers and not in the game is precisely analogous to bemoaning scenes in movie trailers not being present/represented by alternate takes, in the released version. i.e. something that happens all the freakin' time and noone bats an eyelid about, because that's how the creative process works.

It is nothing alike. What movie pitches itself with massive chunks of story that don't end up in the movie itself, leaving a broken, half-baked narrative mess with clear signs of being gouged for time constraints?

You're talking about minor re-shoots and scenes filmed to disguise plot twists. That's willfully ignoring why FFXV is a problem -- because the end result suffered from those removals, and they sure as heck WERE misleading.
 

silva1991

Member
P2zshr.jpg

People and I'm one of them were looking forward to actually explore this awesome and unique place :/

Good lord it's both sad and hilarious how the visit to this area turned out in the game.

The amount of stuff missing from Tabata's own trailers is staggering. What was the point of the Dawn trailer again?

I'm surprised with the lack of talk about this one tbh. A very important story aspect of Luna was totally scrapped.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Bloody hell, most of the scenes OP posted are what I know of the game.
Are you telling me all that content was cut? Thats just insane.

This. Several of my friends who game a lot, but don't spend time on forums, got FFXV and knew nothing about all this Stella and "Nomura's Glorious Vision™ was destroyed!" thing. They saw some of the trailers, were hyped, got the game, played it, loved it, done.

and then you have posters like the above. these trailers do have weight. many have millions of views each.
 
This. Several of my friends who game a lot, but don't spend time on forums, got FFXV and knew nothing about all this Stella and "Nomura's Glorious Vision™ was destroyed!" thing. They saw some of the trailers, were hyped, got the game, played it, loved it, done.

Yup, being too invested in the games pre-release hype and trailers can only lead to disappointment. I'm sure anyone who followed the game at a casual level didn't even notice the changes in the game.

Eventually I had to manage my expectations knowing that it's being directed by Tabata on top of the various changes in the development staff. While I agree that it sucks so much of the stuff in the trailer didn't make it into the game, I still love FFXV. It's definetly a flawed product that was rushed to market. Maybe with another year they could have put in more of those scenes. Regardless, I'm still amazed it's even functioning considering they took so much fan feedback, which is for the best really.

In many ways it's like MGSV where it is fun to play but has a mess of a story. Though MGSV is tied to a series of games and canon. FFXV is only tied to Nomura's various CG trailers.

FFXV walked tall, and while it took a while to get here, it's an excellent game in it's own right. It's fine to be disappointing by the marketing and trailers not making it in, but I like to judge games on what's there rather than what isn't or could have been.

All that being said, I still want to see FF Versus XIII. Even if it's just the script.

The amount of stuff missing from Tabata's own trailers is staggering. What was the point of the Dawn trailer again?

To set the tone of Noctis' destiny and his relationship with his father. Though I felt like it would be hard to put that in any part of the game considering it's mostly focused on Regis' sadness knowing what's gonna happen to his son. Maybe they could have incorporated it near the beginning.

Like when Noctis drives off with the bros, it could have shown a scene of Regis reflecting on that moment.

I'm was actually impressed on how they incorporate Omen trailer into a nightmare sequence that Noctis had.
 

Ydelnae

Member
If any of you want to have a deeper insight into what could have probably been cut from the game and what changes inbetween these trailers kept coming out, this is an interesting thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1323493 (The Dawn trailer being the original opening to the game, Tenebrae being more explorable, etc...)

In my opinion, the wording of the trailers really made it seem like Tenebrae at least would be explorable (look at this big town... look at all these enviroments you will explore in the game) and while it makes sense narratively to get there and see that the villain has already screwed up everything you were waiting for, it's not fair marketing.

The Dawn trailer should have also made it into the game, since it was the closest that XV has been to the original project in its public showings.
 

Peroroncino

Member
I don't think this is even remotely similar to the NMS situation.

Changes in story (which is exactly what almost everything here is) are completely different from showing/suggesting gameplay that literally doesn't exist.

That said, I'd be totally on board for not hearing about the next FF (or any game, really) until it's 6 months out, has all its features locked in, and can be shown for the first time in close to its final form.

I think by 'changes' you mean heavy cuts by a clumsy butcher, but other than that I agree with your post.
 

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
People and I'm one of them were looking forward to actually explore this awesome and unique place :/

Good lord it's both sad and hilarious how the visit to this area turned out in the game.

LOL that was probably the most egregious one. "Okay guys let's stop the train at Tenebrae."
Nevermind, it burnt down offscreen just like every other important event in this game. Back on the train. Choo choo! Chapter over.
 

UCBooties

Member
To me this feels more like the Rogue One Trailers than No Man's Sky. It's clear that major changes to the story were made over the course of production and the trailers reflect that over time.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
This. Several of my friends who game a lot, but don't spend time on forums, got FFXV and knew nothing about all this Stella and "Nomura's Glorious Vision™ was destroyed!" thing. They saw some of the trailers, were hyped, got the game, played it, loved it, done.

It's not about "joe gamer." If the content of the trailers does not matter at all, then why have anything representative of the final product at all? I mean, your friends and Joe Gamer aren't watching, right?

The argument to me is if the trailers are a misrepresentation of the final product. While it's obvious they do not represent it exactly and they've changed dramatically from what players will play, they are in fact representative but do show a product that has been dramatically altered over time. That's interesting to me.
 

LAA

Member
As someone who loved FFXV and is probably one of my favourites, I love the world, characters, combat, but I can't deny I have disappointments about it. There's just so much potential not used fully.
Like I really so think it could have been considered a masterpiece, but in its current state, I'd class it as great at best.
Just pretty much everything needed fleshing out. I wish cities were bigger and/or more of them. Lestallum was pretty much it. Altissa I hoped I'd be there longer than you are and also hoped it'd be bigger. Tenebrae I was under the impression it'd be explorable and a shame it wasn't, but seems it was never in the cards.

As for marketing, simply a mess from VS XIII days really I feel. The first FFXV trailer was showing stuff that'd be put into Kingsglaive entirely really, which is a shame as stuff in there sold me towards it in the first place, but that I can sorta forgive as it seemed at that point it was more target rendering and FFXV didn't even really seem to be fully in production at that point, still can be said a bad move to show that when it wouldn't show in the game.
The stuff after that I can't forgive as much. We never got red skys (maybe world of ruin?), cutscenes missing, the unfinished train station they shown never appeared in game, could go on and on. All this stuff I can't forgive easily and this was when Tabata was in charge at this point, so he can be blamed here. I will say I have respect for him getting the game out, but I'll always wonder what FFXV would look like if it was under Normuras vision (though can't say I'm a fan of the idea of a trilogy) and how many of his decisions steered FFXV away from that when it was his idea that sold me and no doubt many others towards it in the first place.
Don't like how according to leak too marketing things were made just for the sake of marketing and weren't in the game at all. Not a fan of things like that at all. Sadly the marketing around FFXV was pretty bad overall it seemed.

I just hope post launch FFXV stuff will improve it more and more. Feels like an unprecedented step adding more story cutscenes post launch and hopefully we'll get more of that adding to the game, though that said I'd rather they just put all of this into the game the first time round tbh. Especially if they're not going to add a quick and easy way to go through this new content without having to play a 100+ hour game again.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
It is nothing alike. What movie pitches itself with massive chunks of story that don't end up in the movie itself, leaving a broken, half-baked narrative mess with clear signs of being gouged for time constraints?

You're talking about minor re-shoots and scenes filmed to disguise plot twists. That's willfully ignoring why FFXV is a problem -- because the end result suffered from those removals, and they sure as heck WERE misleading.

What "massive chunks" are we talking about here? I managed to follow everything that was going on just fine, and to be honest I'm glad the back end of the game (where almost all of the obvious cuts are) isn't jammed full of cut-scenes and filler because its tonally so adrift from the bulk of the game. Its the least fun portion of the story and given how many people boo-hoo'ed over the length of chapter 13, I can't see how adding more would make it better.
 

Infest

Member
I can only repeat myself from another thread:

Well that happens when you change the story every 3 months and release random trailers at the same time.

That E3 2013 stuff wasn't surprising to see getting cut/ played out totally different in the final game even though it's probably the trailer that got the most people hooked on XV. However... there's really no acceptable excuse for all the scenes from the TGS 2014, Jump Festa 2015 and Dawn +2.0 trailers that didn't make it in the final game.

I'd just love to know what happened behind the scenes and why they ended up heavily promoting a game that never really existed. I mean they at least rebooted the game like four times:

2006 - 2011 : showing off versus XIII (the story script was finished in 2010. 2006 was not representative for the game either and was only meant to set the tone)

2013 - 2013 TGS: introducing XV -> an expanded version of the versus XIII story (a world of the versus epic)
As stated above according to Ferrari they changed the story during that time pretty much every 3 months.

after that -> restructuring of the team once again and setting a tight budget and release schedule for the game.

TGS 2014 and Jump Festa 2015: Introducing the new condensed version of XV under Tabata -> Luna as the new heroine, slight design changes (Prompto) (world of the versus epic tagline is no more)

After that they must've made a lot of adjustments because of Kingsglaive.

GC + TGS 2015: Introducing the new Regis design -> heavy focus on the bond between father and son and Noctis' "prophecy".

-> They rumourdly changed Luna's story after that because they were afraid of the feedback that would've caused the original story ( The trailer hints at child abuse but tbf that scene was never properly explained.)

Note:
Nothing from the Dawn trailer made it into the final game)

March 2016 Uncovered: It seems like they finally had the story complete, also kingsglaive was done at that point. (Even though they still showed some scenes that never made it into the game ->probably due time constraints).

Interesting to note: They only decided on the details of the season pass content ( and the idea of a season pass in general) after the Uncovered event even though they already said before that there would be dlc in some kind of form for the game.

So it seems like they didn't have a final plot written until late 2015 at least which is absolutely crucial and also still had to cut some stuff because they ran out of time.

I really hope we'll get the whole story of this development & marketing desaster at some point in the future in 20 years or so :x, it's just too interesting to know what really happened.

I also did a compilation video of everything that's not in the final game:
A fantasy based on misleading trailers
 

Zafir

Member
I find it amusing that certain characters have more screen time in trailers than they do in the actual game. Such as Regis. xD

You'd think that they'd be important to the story, but... Apparently not!
 
The amount of stuff missing from Tabata's own trailers is staggering. What was the point of the Dawn trailer again?

I remember everyone being so hyped for an upcoming trailer, then witnessed the disappointment of over a minute of hugging. To then find out most of that content isn't even in the game, nor the message it tried to send is both hilarious and very disappointing. XV is such a mishmash of scenes that going into it blind means you're missing some context, yet going into it with full knowledge of the promotion leaves you baffled at what wasn't there.
 

Gasian

Member
The amount of stuff missing from Tabata's own trailers is staggering. What was the point of the Dawn trailer again?

I guess that was meant to establish the "tone" at the time. But then with the extensive rewrites the game obviously had the story of "father and son" faded into the background to almost non existence.

Now I wouldnt call this necessarily 100% misleading, OP. Is it sort of like that? Kinda. But I can make the same argument for any game that has even showed a story related trailer and not have a scene in the final game. Like the 2013 E3 game stuff is leftovers from a different game entirely. I do agree they showed way too much of stuff that wasn't there and I guess that is the misleading part. This is just super poor mismanagement to me for a project in dev hell being slapped together towards end to get out a.s.a.p.
(I still really like the story though despite its flaws. I know I am a weirdo for saying that. :p)

Also I have been wondering something I hope someone can answer? Wasn't the point of the Dawn trailer suppose to show what happen 15 years before and wasn't Chapter 0 suppose to take place during that before it got turned into the "unwinnable battle" thing? Did that just end up getting pushed into backstory with Brotherhood and did the amount of time get changed to 12 with the rewrites with Brotherhood and Kingsglaive existing? That whole situation has me confused. I might have just confused you trying to explain it.

It is definitely a clusterfuck of a situation.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
I find it amusing that certain characters have more screen time in trailers than they do in the actual game. Such as Regis. xD

You'd think that they'd be important to the story, but... Apparently not!

Wow, never thought about that before. What a clusterfuck.
 

LordKasual

Banned
If you're still namedropping "Nomura" and "Stella" in context of FFXV in 2016 and you know intimate details about all these trailers, then you know exactly why the game turned out the way it did and that the term "mismarketing" is a bit of a misnomer.

Square Enix rented out a massive event for the release date of this game, and none of the stuff shown was in the trailers. They also let people play for upwards of 10 hours and give impressions just so nobody was blindsided.

It's getting to the point where anytime i see the name "Nomura" or "Stella" anywhere in the OP of an XV thread, I already know i probably shouldn't even bother reading it. I wish all of that stuff was in the game too, i'm not crazy, it's just...the game is out, i've beaten it, and they're still making content for it, so i feel fine with letting it go.
 

entremet

Member
It's not about "joe gamer." If the content of the trailers does not matter at all, then why have anything representative of the final product at all? I mean, your friends and Joe Gamer aren't watching, right?

The argument to me is if the trailers are a misrepresentation of the final product. While it's obvious they do not represent it exactly and they've changed dramatically from what players will play, they are in fact representative but do show a product that has been dramatically altered over time. That's interesting to me.
The issue here is game development and its perils for overambitious projects.

It is misleading? Possibly?

Was a malicious? Doubful. Maybe they should have added disclaimers. But is it obvious now that things were sacrificed to get the game out.

I don't see this as a NMS situation but at the realities of game development and this project being an exceptional outlier.

Ive been following gaming media for a long time and trade show trailers are not something I see as formal avertising.

I get that things will change.
 
I didn't have to watch the trailers to know that stuff was cut. Two blatant slap in the face scenes is how they handled visiting Tenebrae and Shiva's statue. That shit was so glaringly obvious cutting corners that even if they weren't in a trailer I would still be disappointed in what we got. It's not hard to see what they cut even without the trailers.
 
I don't see this as a NMS situation but at the realities of game development and this project being an exceptional outlier.

Sorry, have to disagree with that. To me they are closer than most, even if they couldn't be more different (major AAA vs small team).
 
I didn't follow this game closely but I knew they had changed things from what I had seen in trailers and at E3.

One that stands out in my mind is when you attack a base, you were supposedly able to time and split your attacks between each player meaning you could control the other members of your party for a bit. Was this never a thing or am I right about that?

A lot of content that was cut looks awesome. Too bad it never made it.
 
I wiuldnt care a bit if certain scenes do not exist in a final game if the end game was good.

However FF XV has severe flaws in its basic gameplay (camera in combat), lack of content (in particular aside of the main storyline) and some obnoxious design decisions on top of that (traversal of the open world, monster hunting jobs can be done only one at a time).
 

entremet

Member
Story in a RPG? Yes.

I guess when I think of things with a narrative bent, whether it's novels, TV, movies, and even some games, I can see things getting cut for whatever reason.

The NMS situation was actual promised mechanics that were not delivered after their confirmation. To me that's a big difference. Story content gets cut all the time, although that's usually later revealed via developer interviews.

But I'll meet you halfway here. I was not terribly vested in the prerelease trade show trailer content for this title, nor did i read much developer interviews.

Did Nomura and Tabata outright say anything about the cut content? A lot of the NMS issues was also a lack of transparency about their failed promises.
 
I didn't follow this game closely but I knew they had changed things from what I had seen in trailers and at E3.

One that stands out in my mind is when you attack a base, you were supposedly able to time and split your attacks between each player meaning you could control the other members of your party for a bit. Was this never a thing or am I right about that?

A lot of content that was cut looks awesome. Too bad it never made it.

That was never a thing so far as I know.
 

Geg

Member
I guess if you want to get technical they did in fact have scenes of the Insomnia invasion in the game, just in the form of poorly pasted in clips from Kingsglaive.

Obviously I wish that Kingsglaive was never made and those scenes could have been part of the game proper (likely in the form of in-game flashbacks narrated by Cor or Cid or something) but that's not the fault of the people putting together trailers in 2014 before Kingsglaive was a thing.
 

Zafir

Member
I guess if you want to get technical they did in fact have scenes of the Insomnia invasion in the game, just in the form of poorly pasted in clips from Kingsglaive.

Obviously I wish that Kingsglaive was never made and those scenes could have been part of the game proper (likely in the form of in-game flashbacks narrated by Cor or Cid or something) but that's not the fault of the people putting together trailers in 2014 before Kingsglaive was a thing.

It's still the fault of Square Enix as a collective entity for deciding to cut story from the game and put it into a movie.

More over, just because it's in Kingsglaive doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game as well. I think Insomnia falling is a pretty key plot point. It's frankly laughable how in game it's revealed by them looking at a newspaper in a hotel room, and you don't see anything about it past a rather poorly edited Kingsglaive scene being shoved in through a patch.

They only needed to show more of the climax, Kingsglaive still could have existed as something that elaborated further on how Insomnia fell.
 

LordKasual

Banned
I guess when I think of things with a narrative bent, whether it's novels, TV, movies, and even some games, I can see things getting cut for whatever reason.

The NMS situation was actual promised mechanics that were not delivered after their confirmation. To me that's a big difference. Story content gets cut all the time, although that's usually later revealed via developer interviews.

But I'll meet you halfway here. I was not terribly vested in the prerelease trade show trailer content for this title, nor did i read much developer interviews.

Did Nomura and Tabata outright say anything about the cut content? A lot of the NMS issues was also a lack of transparency about their failed promises.

The NMS situation was the developers coming out and consistently promising features that were not present in the actual game in any way shape or form. And he kept doing it right up until release, so he was 100% sure he was lying when he did it.

The FFXV situation was that a concept was presented, simmered, canned, and then salvaged. The fact that XV is even called "XV" was an attempt to move away from the Versus XIII impressions because the game had changed too much. Tabata has been trying to soften this impression blowback to the game since he was appointed to the project, which is why at some point he just refused to even bother taking questions when people brought up Stella or anything from Versus XIII in general.

Nomura couldn't have had much to do with it, i'm sure he was in the same situation Tabata was when he was switched off. He was left on the team long enough to help transition the narrative and overall feel of the game into XV, and then taken off to oversee FF7 and KH3. They pushed forward with what they could work with, and this is what we got.
 

daveo42

Banned
I think I'm more disappointed in everything seemingly cut between everything shown up to 2011 and the final game. The cuts made then were probably the deepest. Everything else were probably a lot more minor than the shift away from what was originally revealed and what ended up in the game. I mean, they cut an entire character (dude in the white cloak), cut Stella, and that's about the time they started chopping all of Insomnia. Man...I really miss what that game seemed to be.

I like FFXV and put a ton of time into it, but the cuts and changes seemed to do the story more harm than anything else. Combat is fun (but needs more magic variety) and the world looks nice, but the story is super rough and you can tell what parts of that beautiful world were also chopped and mangled just to get the game out. Everything after Altissa could have been another continent. Hell, Altissa could have been way more explorable than it ended up being. Same with Insomnia. Such a shame. I just hope SE learns its lesson here and carries it forward to FFXVI, if and when we actually get it.
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Sigh. It could have been the best FF game ever. I did everything the game had to offer but still so unsatisfied with it. Half the story was missing. Who asked for Kingsglaive?

It's a very beautiful and addictive game but was clearly rushed.
 
What "massive chunks" are we talking about here? I managed to follow everything that was going on just fine, and to be honest I'm glad the back end of the game (where almost all of the obvious cuts are) isn't jammed full of cut-scenes and filler because its tonally so adrift from the bulk of the game. Its the least fun portion of the story and given how many people boo-hoo'ed over the length of chapter 13, I can't see how adding more would make it better.

I'm a pretty thorough gamer who took 45 hours for the first playthrough, and at the very end,
I had to learn about the Starscourge, Ardyn's past, why exactly we were hunting the Astrals -- to say nothing of Luna and Cor, who were ostensibly pitched as main characters but have a combined 15 minutes of screentime. Aranea suffers in the same way -- the game so quickly tells you to accept that she's cool hanging out with you guys without explaining why, and she never gets any backstory whatsoever. Yet we're supposed to care about what she's up to during the World of Ruin segment?

I learned from fan wikis that Verstael, a Niflheim scientist with a non-speaking role in one scene, is Prompto's father. Cool? I guess?

Tenebrae is pitched as a major location. Ironically, it burns offscreen. The Insomnia cocktail party / invasion that is so prevalent in trailers is nowhere to be found. There are massive holes throughout where giant leaps of suspended disbelief are asked of you by the game, and so many unexplained details as to feel haphazard, not ambiguous.
 
But I'll meet you halfway here. I was not terribly vested in the prerelease trade show trailer content for this title, nor did i read much developer interviews.

Did Nomura and Tabata outright say anything about the cut content? A lot of the NMS issues was also a lack of transparency about their failed promises.

I only read a few interviews, I remember talk about changes (Stella, etc) and that's fine, cut content like the Dawn trailer I don't remember, but maybe someone else does.
 

JPS Kai

Member
Pretty sure there were more half-finished locations cut which we just haven't seen yet
(like the supposedly world of ruin Lestallum area)
I hope they go as far as adding those with free updates, and not just additional cutscenes.

Please be excited for the Season Pass.
 
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