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[DarkLordMalik]

It's still the fault of Square Enix as a collective entity for deciding to cut story from the game and put it into a movie.

More over, just because it's in Kingsglaive doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game as well. I think Insomnia falling is a pretty key plot point. It's frankly laughable how in game it's revealed by them looking at a newspaper in a hotel room, and you don't see anything about it past a rather poorly edited Kingsglaive scene being shoved in through a patch.

They only needed to show more of the climax, Kingsglaive still could have existed as something that elaborated further on how Insomnia fell.

It was Nozue, director of Kingsglaive and the director of CGI scenes for Versus and XV who suggested the movie. So don't blame it on management or Tabata.

 

[Geg]

It's frankly laughable how in game it's revealed by them looking at a newspaper in a hotel room

Honestly, this particular thing is something I was 100% okay with. I really don't get all the complaints about that scene. I liked the way the story started out with the soft light-hearted opening with the guys on a happy road trip that gets unexpectedly interrupted.

Honestly I wish the added Kingsglaive scenes weren't even at that part so it comes as more of a surprise, and if they had to add in Kingsglaive scenes instead of making in-game cutscenes they should have put them in later. I know some people have said that the added Kingsglaive clips actively makes that scene more confusing.

 

[Zafir]

It was Nozue, director of Kingsglaive and the director of CGI scenes for Versus and XV who suggested the movie. So don't blame it on management or Tabata.

You do realise management of SE have to approve projects, right?

Regardless, it's still Square Enix, as a collective entity's fault.

You can't just pick and choose who is and isn't Square Enix when you make comments.

You also seemingly missed the second part of what I was saying, where Kingsglaive could have easily existed without fucking over XV's story.

Honestly, this particular thing is something I was 100% okay with. I really don't get all the complaints about that scene. I liked the way the story started out with the soft light-hearted opening with the guys on a happy road trip that gets unexpectedly interrupted.

Honestly I wish the added Kingsglaive scenes weren't even at that part so it comes as more of a surprise, and if they had to add in Kingsglaive scenes instead of making in-game cutscenes they should have put them in later. I know some people have said that the added Kingsglaive scenes actively makes that scene more confusing.

It would have been okay for just them(the characters) finding out assuming it was elaborated further for the audience(ie those of us playing the game).

I think from an audience standpoint it was just really poor because you see nothing relating to Insomnia falling in the game, outside of that Kingsglaive scene. I totally can see why it ends up making it more confusing for people too, since they've basically chopped up a few scenes from the movie and inserted them in without much of an explanation.

I think it would have been fine if they'd have waited to explain it too, maybe get the explanation from someone who was there, like Cor or something. That's not what we got though, so inevitably the reveal falls flat.

 

[MissDeviling]

Kingsglaive was a shitty idea. Why do I have to watch a garbage movie to get a grasp of what should have been the opening act of XV? Even if you don't have time to make it gameplay, at least integrate it PROPERLY as a cutscene in the actual game.

That patch-in Kingsglaive flashback was embarrassingly amateur.

 

[texhnolyze]

I watched only the 2013 reveal trailer and a gameplay footage, so I guess I'm not missing that much.

If I were consumed everything, I'd be totally disappointed.

 

[CaramelMarx]

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially? There's a reason SE said for years that an FF7 remake was 'impossible' - there's yet to be, as far as I know, a game of the PSX era FFs level of variety, scale, and scope, with modern triple A graphics / open world sandbox design. The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

SE tried to make a modern game as story heavy as 7 - it was called Final Fantasy 13. When people flipped out about 13 being too linear and cutscene heavy, SE seemingly cut down XV's storyline as a result. I somehow doubt this 'Goldilocks' syndrome is solely attributable to SE's incompetence. It really seems this is a case of a fanbase who want what they want uncompromisingly, despite knowing little to nothing about the practicalities of designing and completing a modern triple A game.

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity. I'm not a game designer, but I've played enough RPGs to notice the inverse relationship between level of open world elements and level of compelling linear story/ narrative complexity. I'm sad the later parts of the game felt like XV stalling for time too, but I don't think adding even more to this already 'behemoth' size game would have solved its problems. I think it'll still be a while before we get the cutting edge, fully open world modern FF 7 we all dream about.

 

[Haunted]

Kingsglaive was a shitty idea. Why do I have to watch a garbage movie to get a grasp of what should have been the opening act of XV? Even if you don't have time to make it gameplay, at least integrate it PROPERLY as a cutscene in the actual game.

That patch-in Kingsglaive flashback was embarrassingly amateur.

The way they shoehorned in marketing material as actual in-game cutscenes with barely comprehensible quick cuts was a really puzzling decision.

 

[Infest]

I watched only the 2013 reveal trailer and a gameplay footage, so I guess I'm not missing that much.

If I were consumed everything, I'd be totally disappointed.

Yeah... you're only missing everything you've seen so far. :x

 

[Geg]

I think it would have been fine if they'd have waited to explain it too, maybe get the explanation from someone who was there, like Cor or something. That's not what we got though, so inevitably the reveal falls flat.

Yep. I ended up liking XV and its story much more than XIII, but both games have moments where I think "I understand the idea behind this, but it would have been so much better and more comprehensible if they had done it like this instead"

 

[RobRSG]

I think this games is underdeveloped, mismarketed and I feel deceived every glance I give at it. Leviathan battle is something they've marketed in a very different manner, and you guys know how horribly it turned out. How bad

Spoiler

Cor, Ravus and Iedolas

are developed as characters, what is their real relevance? Even the main crew, what are their backgrounds, why we should care? How soulless are the boss battles.

Turns out I'm disgusted by this game's incoherence and I even grade this game as the most recent fraud case on videogame's history. Simply itches me to see how people simple ignore the facts and keep defending this mess through and through.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Honestly, this particular thing is something I was 100% okay with. I really don't get all the complaints about that scene. I liked the way the story started out with the soft light-hearted opening with the guys on a happy road trip that gets unexpectedly interrupted.

Honestly I wish the added Kingsglaive scenes weren't even at that part so it comes as more of a surprise, and if they had to add in Kingsglaive scenes instead of making in-game cutscenes they should have put them in later. I know some people have said that the added Kingsglaive clips actively makes that scene more confusing.

Would have to agree with this right here, newspaper scene I didn't have an issue eith, adding Kingsglaive scenes made it worse in the end.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially? There's a reason SE said for years that an FF7 remake was 'impossible' - there's yet to be, as far as I know, a game of the PSX era FFs level of variety, scale, and scope, with modern triple A graphics / open world sandbox design. The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

SE tried to make a modern game as story heavy as 7 - it was called Final Fantasy 13. When people flipped out about 13 being too linear and cutscene heavy, SE seemingly cut down XV's storyline as a result. I somehow doubt this 'Goldilocks' syndrome is solely attributable to SE's incompetence. It really seems this is a case of a fanbase who want what they want uncompromisingly, despite knowing little to nothing about the practicalities of designing and completing a modern triple A game.

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity. I'm not a game designer, but I've played enough RPGs to notice the inverse relationship between level of open world elements and level of compelling linear story/ narrative complexity. I'm sad the later parts of the game felt like XV stalling for time too, but I don't think adding even more to this already 'behemoth' size game would have solved its problems. I think it'll still be a while before we get the cutting edge, fully open world modern FF 7 we all dream about.

The series doesn't need openworld sandbox/fetchquest design. I feel it would strike a better balance if it was closer to FFXII/Xenoblade. Small to medium sized zones and more variety. Along with better project management and reusing the tech they've built, I do feel they can achieve something better with XVI.

 

[Clear]

I'm a pretty thorough gamer who took 45 hours for the first playthrough, and at the very end,

Spoiler

I had to learn about the Starscourge, Ardyn's past, why exactly we were hunting the Astrals -- to say nothing of Luna and Cor, who were ostensibly pitched as main characters but have a combined 15 minutes of screentime. Aranea suffers in the same way -- the game so quickly tells you to accept that she's cool hanging out with you guys without explaining why, and she never gets any backstory whatsoever. Yet we're supposed to care about what she's up to during the World of Ruin segment?

I learned from fan wikis that Verstael, a Niflheim scientist with a non-speaking role in one scene, is Prompto's father. Cool? I guess?

Tenebrae is pitched as a major location. Ironically, it burns offscreen. The Insomnia cocktail party / invasion that is so prevalent in trailers is nowhere to be found. There are massive holes throughout where giant leaps of suspended disbelief are asked of you by the game, and so many unexplained details as to feel haphazard, not ambiguous.

Ok, well that just seems like a list of details that don't really matter!

Lets go through this:

Spoiler

1. Starscourge only makes sense as a late-game reveal as the Niflheim Empire is the primary antagonist, Ardyn's agenda needs to be a surpise.

2. At no point are you "hunting" the astrals, that's oracle business which for obvious reasons Noct isn't privy too. He gets drawn to Titan due to the headaches, Ramuh freely offers his assistance after visiting his stones, and Leviathan is just grudgingly involved in this. Each of these "gods" has their own agenda, which is kinda cool, especially as its not spelled out for the player.

3. Luna and Cor were never pitched as main characters, and its blazingly obvious from the first moment this is a story centered on Noct and his buddies. No offence but you need to recognize that the entire game system is built around Noctis, the mechanics simply do not support situations where he's not present! So at best, they are going to be bonus party members like Aranea and Iris.

4. Prompto's parentage is irrelevant. Who gives a shit, he's a bro' and there's never any question of his loyalty. Its just something Ardyn uses to (unsuccessfully) fuck with Noct's head.

5. Yes Insomnia burns offscreen, but so what? Luna's already dead and its purpose is just to give a surprise reveal that the Niflheim empire is suddenly collapsing under itself for reasons hitherto unknown.

Bottom line, you really need to ask yourself what purpose these omissions would serve were they to be implemented, and how they'd fit in with a game system that absolutely requires Noctis to be present at all times.

 

[semiconscious]

What does everyone think? Is this another round of NMS?...

i'd say, in a way, yeah, it sorta is. that such a huge percentage of mostly narrative-related trailer content didn't make it into the finished game is actually something of a pretty amazing accomplishment in itself ...

 

[DarkLordMalik]

The series doesn't need openworld sandbox/fetchquest design. I feel it would strike a better balance if it was closer to FFXII/Xenoblade. Small to medium sized zones and more variety. Along with better project management and reusing the tech they've built, I do feel they can achieve something better with XVI.

Tabata was actually brought as a Project Manager to salvage whatever was left of this jumbled mess of project.

IMO, the story related criticism is hard to blame on him when you have 10 years of concept being fed into the minds of players while also having changes to the story even in the last year in company of the previous director.

 

[Caelestis]

I was rewatching 2011/2013 the other day too and thinking where is all this good stuff ;_;. The game turned out to be alright, but I feel like I wanted something else.

 

[AzureFlame]

I noticed this funny thing

Look at how big the boat is, now 1 sec later

Everything was a lie.

 

[Tyaren]

I see many here being especially disappointed of Altissia too.
Altissia was my biggest disappointmnet in the entire game. It is actually crazy what they made of that city. It's almost as if they are taunting us with how measly it turned out to be. They promised us this huge city that even the developers would get lost in. They literally said that:

"Tomonori continues to say that the city is so huge that even the people working on the game find themselves lost in the place sometimes."
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/124036/20160113/square-enix-discusses-final-fantasy-xv-details-altissia-warp-points-battle-modes-and-more.htm

The blue area is however all we ever get to explore of the city:

And this is already just a small map section of the actual whole city.

What about the pink outlined area? Couldn't they at least have added that area? It looks like it clearly belongs to the rest of the explorable area. *sigh*

Then I found this Youtube video earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2WYUiliIo&feature=youtu.be

So Noctis is able to swim and the assets of that city quarter are also already done? Does that mean we will have to pay for the rest as DLC?

 

[Geg]

Altissia was big and confusing enough. What would the game gain by making it bigger?

 

[JP]

Trailers are no more than commercials for games that are there to attract people to the game, if a trailer doesn't specifically state that the game does contain what is shown then it's not doing anything wrong. The only time I would rely on advertising of specific features or events in a game is if the game case specifically states a feature is included or if the store page that you're buying it from specifically states it.

Is any of the "missing" content specifically advertised as being included in the finished product when people have bought it? Maybe I'm just more careful than some people about handing over money for things based on marketing material that I may have read or seen about stuff a year or two before it was even released.

I really like to research about what I'm specifically buying before I even think of handing over money, possibly because I like to climb and I wouldn't dream of buying something that I'm going to hang off a mountain by based on advertising that I'd seen a year before the product was even released....for obvious reasons.

It's never good to assume things about purchases based on pre-release advertising.

 

[Tyaren]

Altissia was big and confusing enough. What would the game gain by making it bigger?

It was confusing but it was definitely not big. It was supposed to represent a big, vibrant metropolis and not a village built by a crazy person.

The Witcher 3 cities Novigrad and Beauclair were also big and they were perfectly explorable and traversable.

 

[bomblord1]

I see many here being especially disappointed of Altissia too.
Altissia was my biggest disappointmnet in the entire game. It is actually crazy what they made of Altissia. It's almost as if they are taunting us with how measly it turned out to be. They promised us this huge city that even the developers would get lost in. They literally said that:

"Tomonori continues to say that the city is so huge that even the people working on the game find themselves lost in the place sometimes."
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/124036/20160113/square-enix-discusses-final-fantasy-xv-details-altissia-warp-points-battle-modes-and-more.htm

The blue area is however all we ever get to explore of the city:

And this is already just a small map section of the actual whole city.

What about the pink outlined area? Couldn't they at least have added that area? It looks like it clearly belongs to the rest of the explorable area. *sigh*

Then I found this Youtube video earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2WYUiliIo&feature=youtu.be

So Noctis is able to swim and the assets of that city quarter are also already done? Does that mean we will have to pay for the rest as DLC?

I actually got lost though

 

[Bladenic]

The red sky world of ruin looked so awesome. I mean I like the whole nighttime aspect but the red sky would have it stick out more.

 

[shark sandwich]

Altissia was big and confusing enough. What would the game gain by making it bigger?

Yeah this is one omission I'm not too upset about. I enjoyed what was there but I wasn't hungry for more. You know if they made it bigger, they would just fill it up with more stupid chores for you to do.

I am totally okay with towns in my RPGs only having a few sections that can be explored in full detail. I don't want to spend hours trying to explore every last nook and cranny, talking to every NPC, people standing around waiting to give me stupid generic fetch quests, etc. That stuff has negative value for me.

 

[Tyaren]

I actually got lost though

I'm repeating myself...
You did get lost because it was all just crazily planned and all the time you would reach an untraversable barrier or dead end where there shouldn't be one. You certainly didn't get lost because the city was big and well planned.
I can get lost in my grandma's basement and it's just the usual basement size, just very strangely laid out.

It's a peculiar excuse to me, to rather have Altissia be a village, just because what was explorable was so poorly laid out and restricted at each corner.

 

[Skinpop]

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity.

I don't want this. I think this is the worst possible direction a game like FF can take. The quest marker style of gameplay they went for was enough to permanently put me off FF XV.

The game reminds me of early last-gen titles when some japanese devs aped after western games to find wider appeal.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Altissia was big and confusing enough. What would the game gain by making it bigger?

How do people exist in the real world if you thought that was big and confusing? Do you live in a town with one road?

 

[HerroRygar]

...

That said, I'd be totally on board for not hearing about the next FF (or any game, really) until it's 6 months out, has all its features locked in, and can be shown for the first time in close to its final form.

Fucking YES. I enjoyed this game in spite of the letdown, but publishers could save themselves a tremendous amount of grief by doing this. Only announce shit that actually exists and is far enough along to have a release date and features talked about confidently.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Omen Trailer, November 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZymd6r4wGg

Having completed the game, I feel this trailer hinted towards a much more deeper fate for Noctis/Luna. What we got in the final game was just undercooked and this trailer just feels a bit pointless to me.

I actually enjoyed it.

I felt like the Omen trailer was closer to those cool CGI Assassins Creed commercials.
It had a taste of the story elements that you would encounter in the game (unfortunately some things you wouldn't). Because of the full CGI, it wasn't filled with spoilers as some trailers usually are.

Although I wish Luna played a bigger part in the game as the trailer made it seem, it was still a decent representation of what you would experience in the main game.


Those other trailers though...

The whole time I was looking forward to fighting on the castle steps in Insomnia and the Leviathan fight in Altissa. I'm still salty about that.

Despite the story shortcomings, I still enjoyed my time with the game.
Hopefully future RPG developers add side quest into their game AFTER they've finished implementing the main story.

 

[shark sandwich]

I don't want this. I think this is the worst possible direction a game like FF can take. The quest marker style of gameplay they went for was enough to permanently put me off FF XV.

The game reminds me of early last-gen titles when some japanese devs aped after western games to find wider appeal.

Tabata straight up said that they wanted to make a "world-class" RPG. I don't know what else that could mean except "we wanted to prove we could hang with Bethesda/CDPR/Bioware".

I just really fucking hope this is not the future of the series. A decade in development hell, and we end up with a game that sacrificed so much of what makes Final Fantasy great, all so they could make some WRPG-style chore simulator.

I actually did enjoy XV but I am so done with the open-world, generic side quest-driven game design.

 

[Adaren]

I know that other people were more okay with it than me, but the (ending spoilers)

Spoiler

logo

reveal also rubbed me the wrong way. It's like they were trying to use it to capitalize on hype for Versus XIII, then you get to the end and they're like "You thought you were finally playing Versus XIII? jk we didn't put anything from it into our game! Not even the

Spoiler

logo

!"

Spoiler

Like, if Etro's gone and there are no significant women in the game, don't give me a logo with a sleeping almost-certainly-Etro woman on it. Just give me a logo with Noctis' face and a car or something so that it actually reflects what the game is about.

I noticed this funny thing

Look at how big the boat is, now 1 sec later

Everything was a lie.

Yeah, I remember thinking that their boat was massive lol.

 

[Koozek]

and then you have posters like the above. these trailers do have weight. many have millions of views each.

And many of those millions don't spend hours on GAF analyzing differences in every single frame and what's still in the game because they've been busy, well... playing the game. Nor do most even know much about Versus let alone details about its development since 2006. The majority of million-seller games' audiences, including FFXV's, does not mirror the small hardcore audience on GAF.

Look, obviously the development was troubled and content was clearly cut in the final game leaving glaring narrative seams, yes, but I don't think the dev team intentionally set out to "deceive" their fans. They had to show something at E3 2013 and Tabata was tasked with creating a next-gen prototype/concept to show off there. At that point they haven't yet fully rewritten the Versus trilogy into a single game and haven't started actual development of the next-gen only FFXV yet. So what option did they have? CG-only trailer? Okay, but then you would still have the problem of cut content because the story wasn't set in stone yet with constant rewrites happening in 2013 as Roberto Ferrari stated. Wait until TGS '14 to only show stuff after the actual development started? Then people would've still talked about Versus being cancelled for another 2 years and "How the hell have they not shown any new mainline FF yet since 2006? FF is dead!". Now think what you will of Kingsglaive, but the CGI they used in the TGS '14 trailer and which wasn't in the game technically still was part of the game's lore, ending up being in KG instead (reworked and rerendered, obviously), and being shown through the (badly-edited) random clips from KG in the game itself too. Btw, in hindsight I think Kingsglaive was a waste of resources, likely didn't reach many series outsiders (or maybe it did, who knows - would like to see official numbers), and instead could've been condensed into a intro CGI with a voice-over narrative explaining the world's situation similar to the one in Kingsglaive. Well, hindsight is always 20/20, of course. They wanted to try out this cross-media approach, let's see if it worked out for them in the long run.

It's not about "joe gamer." If the content of the trailers does not matter at all, then why have anything representative of the final product at all? I mean, your friends and Joe Gamer aren't watching, right?

The argument to me is if the trailers are a misrepresentation of the final product. While it's obvious they do not represent it exactly and they've changed dramatically from what players will play, they are in fact representative but do show a product that has been dramatically altered over time. That's interesting to me.

Joe and Jane Gamer do watch, but they care more about the general tone and motifs of the trailers and primarily remember the most recent ones only, which weren't misleading in FFXV's case. Most don't rewatch 2-5 years old trailers dozens of times and compare them frame for frame. A few seconds of CGI scenes from an airship flying over Insomnia or Cor talking to Noct from a 2 years old trailer not being in the game in 2016 doesn't matter to most - if they even remember those few seconds at all, anyway. They ultimately still got the game they saw and were hyped for, mainly one with a road-trip theme, flashy combat, huge world, Fantasy Based on Reality aesthetics etc.

But anyway, this whole thing is definitely interesting to have witnessed, yeah. I would love a very candid, in-depth post-mortem about everything since Tabata came on board from mid-2012 onwards. At least we have the Ferrari comments and recent leaks in the meantime

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially? There's a reason SE said for years that an FF7 remake was 'impossible' - there's yet to be, as far as I know, a game of the PSX era FFs level of variety, scale, and scope, with modern triple A graphics / open world sandbox design. The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

SE tried to make a modern game as story heavy as 7 - it was called Final Fantasy 13. When people flipped out about 13 being too linear and cutscene heavy, SE seemingly cut down XV's storyline as a result. I somehow doubt this 'Goldilocks' syndrome is solely attributable to SE's incompetence. It really seems this is a case of a fanbase who want what they want uncompromisingly, despite knowing little to nothing about the practicalities of designing and completing a modern triple A game.

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity. I'm not a game designer, but I've played enough RPGs to notice the inverse relationship between level of open world elements and level of compelling linear story/ narrative complexity. I'm sad the later parts of the game felt like XV stalling for time too, but I don't think adding even more to this already 'behemoth' size game would have solved its problems. I think it'll still be a while before we get the cutting edge, fully open world modern FF 7 we all dream about.

Very good points.

 

[LordKasual]

Altissia was big and confusing enough. What would the game gain by making it bigger?

Yeah, do people legitimately enjoy large cities in games? It took me forever to warm up to Rabanastre in FF12 and I loathe anytime Final Fantasy XIV sends me to Ul'dah because it takes forever to get anywhere.

Walking into a giant city and seeing a bunch of "?" "?" "!" quest markers is the main reason i hate open world games.

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially? There's a reason SE said for years that an FF7 remake was 'impossible' - there's yet to be, as far as I know, a game of the PSX era FFs level of variety, scale, and scope, with modern triple A graphics / open world sandbox design. The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

SE tried to make a modern game as story heavy as 7 - it was called Final Fantasy 13. When people flipped out about 13 being too linear and cutscene heavy, SE seemingly cut down XV's storyline as a result. I somehow doubt this 'Goldilocks' syndrome is solely attributable to SE's incompetence. It really seems this is a case of a fanbase who want what they want uncompromisingly, despite knowing little to nothing about the practicalities of designing and completing a modern triple A game.

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity. I'm not a game designer, but I've played enough RPGs to notice the inverse relationship between level of open world elements and level of compelling linear story/ narrative complexity. I'm sad the later parts of the game felt like XV stalling for time too, but I don't think adding even more to this already 'behemoth' size game would have solved its problems. I think it'll still be a while before we get the cutting edge, fully open world modern FF 7 we all dream about.

Great point.

The shift from pre-rendered backgrounds to fully 3D, manual camera controlled environments alone significantly drives up the density of assets a modern RPG from that era would need to dump resources into. The difference between a PSX-era city and something the size of Altissia in XV is huge. I'm angry we didn't get to explore Tenebrae too, but I completely understand why the game turned out the way it did.

I dont doubt that FFXVI could be FFVII-tier using the same kind of rubric that FFXV did. But it will never come from the type of development cycle that spawned FFXV.

 

[Zoe]

I'm surprised with the lack of talk about this one tbh. A very important story aspect of Luna was totally scrapped.

It's been discussed in the 4chan thread. The scenes of her getting beat or displaying her sickness were removed because they were concerned about backlash.

 

[Cloukyo]

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially? There's a reason SE said for years that an FF7 remake was 'impossible' - there's yet to be, as far as I know, a game of the PSX era FFs level of variety, scale, and scope, with modern triple A graphics / open world sandbox design. The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

SE tried to make a modern game as story heavy as 7 - it was called Final Fantasy 13. When people flipped out about 13 being too linear and cutscene heavy, SE seemingly cut down XV's storyline as a result. I somehow doubt this 'Goldilocks' syndrome is solely attributable to SE's incompetence. It really seems this is a case of a fanbase who want what they want uncompromisingly, despite knowing little to nothing about the practicalities of designing and completing a modern triple A game.

I'm not denying the trailers are misleading - but I keep seeing people express disappointment that XV isn't like the late 90s era Final Fantasies. If you build a contemporary, Skyrim-like game with an entire continent of content, you probably won't be able to feature as much in terms of depth, story, cutscenes, or linearity. I'm not a game designer, but I've played enough RPGs to notice the inverse relationship between level of open world elements and level of compelling linear story/ narrative complexity. I'm sad the later parts of the game felt like XV stalling for time too, but I don't think adding even more to this already 'behemoth' size game would have solved its problems. I think it'll still be a while before we get the cutting edge, fully open world modern FF 7 we all dream about.

I honestly think that if they were given 9 more months and kept in every scene they scrapped, the game's story would've been just as robust and compelling as any of the past FF games.

The guy on 4chan himself said the game was at most 85% done. Entire sections were cut out and character arcs and threads were just left hanging.

With a few months and a few cutscenes those could've all been fixed, the bullet-point esque plot could be fleshed out and turned into something great. Perhaps the best FF so far.

I think to a degree you're right though, with the release schedule they had it seems like they had a choice between completing the open world, or fleshing out the story and setpieces. And they chose the former because they knew western audiences would lap it up.

EDIT: That said, I don't see how they can pull off FF7 without releasing it as multiple games

 

[Lutherian]

I know it's nitpicking but I really like how the last scene of King's Glaive doesn't match with FFXV's opening : in the final scene, we see Prompto driving the car just before they ran out of gas. The game starts right after this, and while pushing the car, Prompto asks Ignis if he can drive the car... assuming he never did.

 

[HeelPower]

Does anyone remember/did anyone play a King's tale ?

Does this thing contain the Noctis-Regis stuff that was meant to be a central aspect of the characters ? lol

The Witcher series is probably the only thing even remotely close - and even the Wild Hunt had MMO elements, rinse and repeat game design, and totally missable narrative sequences (not a complaint, just an observation).

.

The Witcher 3 far,faar exceeds anything those FFs of old has achieved.Scale of world,story depth,variety of content,you name it has been bettered completely.

I think people need to wake up & remove the nostalgia goggles.

Just because FF has terrible directors & management doesn't mean that truly great,expansive experience are not possible in the modern era.

The fact that you think Witcher 3 only comes "remotely close" to providing that kind of experience is(no offense meant) laughable.You're thinking of those old games the way you imagined them,not the way they truly were.

 

[formasymphonic]

Trailers are no more than commercials for games that are there to attract people to the game, if a trailer doesn't specifically state that the game does contain what is shown then it's not doing anything wrong. The only time I would rely on advertising of specific features or events in a game is if the game case specifically states a feature is included or if the store page that you're buying it from specifically states it.

Is any of the "missing" content specifically advertised as being included in the finished product when people have bought it? Maybe I'm just more careful than some people about handing over money for things based on marketing material that I may have read or seen about stuff a year or two before it was even released.

I really like to research about what I'm specifically buying before I even think of handing over money, possibly because I like to climb and I wouldn't dream of buying something that I'm going to hang off a mountain by based on advertising that I'd seen a year before the product was even released....for obvious reasons.

It's never good to assume things about purchases based on pre-release advertising.

You know what, you've convinced me. You are absolutely right - its not Squeenix's fault at all — its ours...

commercials for games that are there to attract people to the game, if a trailer doesn't specifically state that the game does contain what is shown then it's not doing anything wrong.

- you know there are legal reasons commercials have to specifically state when what you see doesn't depict the final product, right?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I know it's nitpicking but I really like how the last scene of King's Glaive doesn't match with FFXV's opening : in the final scene, we see Prompto driving the car just before they ran out of gas. The game starts right after this, and while pushing the car, Prompto asks Ignis if he can drive the car... assuming he never did.

I think the car broke down whilst he was at the wheel.

 

[RobRSG]

Does anyone remember/did anyone play a King's tale ?

Never heard of it until now. Another piece in the jigsaw.

 

[Astral Dog]

the game was totally reshaped into a bro camping trip so that it could actually come out and they had to do many sacrifices.

the rest its just Marketing

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I know that other people were more okay with it than me, but the (ending spoilers)

Spoiler

logo

reveal also rubbed me the wrong way. It's like they were trying to use it to capitalize on hype for Versus XIII, then you get to the end and they're like "You thought you were finally playing Versus XIII? jk we didn't put anything from it into our game! Not even the

Spoiler

logo

!"

Spoiler

Like, if Etro's gone and there are no significant women in the game, don't give me a logo with a sleeping almost-certainly-Etro woman on it. Just give me a logo with Noctis' face and a car or something so that it actually reflects what the game is about.

Isn't the lady on the logo supposed to be Lunafreya?

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Never heard of it until now. Another piece in the jigsaw.

I have it but haven't fully beat it. It came with the pre-order and I just played it while waiting for the main game to be delivered. It didn't appear to be meaty, but it does explain at least slightly how Regis knows some of the other characters in the FFXV world.

 

[cyress8]

Isn't the lady on the logo supposed to be Lunafreya?

Small spoiler, but yep. Make more sense at the end.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I see many here being especially disappointed of Altissia too.


So Noctis is able to swim and the assets of that city quarter are also already done? Does that mean we will have to pay for the rest as DLC?

Third act is unfinished, since they ran out of time. Various areas in the last few chapters are enormous but they just walled them off.

Hope some will be unlocked in new patches that they talk about. I already bought the season pass but it wouldnt be fair for a lot of players if they dont.

 

[whalleywhat]

I've never seen a coherent explanation of what exactly was wrong with the NMS trailer. I watched it recently and the number of ships with you did seem to be implying some sort of multiplayer component, which is obviously egregious on its own, but most people I saw complaining were talking about the flow of gameplay not being representative of what actually happens in game, which is true of almost every trailer and gameplay demo ever. And maybe there's a legitimate criticism about trailers selling the sizzle in this manner, but it would have to be an industry-wide criticism, and we'd need a thread like this on most games that get released, which I doubt would generate anywhere near the same degree of outrage.

 

[CaramelMarx]

The Witcher 3 far,faar exceeds anything those FFs of old has achieved.Scale of world,story depth,variety of content,you name it has been bettered completely.

I think people need to wake up & remove the nostalgia goggles.

Just because FF has terrible directors & management doesn't mean that truly great,expansive experience are not possible in the modern era.

The fact that you think Witcher 3 only comes "remotely close" to providing that kind of experience is(no offense meant) laughable.You're thinking of those old games the way you imagined them,not the way they truly were.

I didn't mean 'comes close' in terms of quality. I meant it in terms of similarity. Sorry if that was confusing.

EDIT: It's also kinda ironic that the whole point of my post goes against your reading of it.

EDIT:

I honestly think that if they were given 9 more months and kept in every scene they scrapped, the game's story would've been just as robust and compelling as any of the past FF games.

The guy on 4chan himself said the game was at most 85% done. Entire sections were cut out and character arcs and threads were just left hanging.

With a few months and a few cutscenes those could've all been fixed, the bullet-point esque plot could be fleshed out and turned into something great. Perhaps the best FF so far.

I think to a degree you're right though, with the release schedule they had it seems like they had a choice between completing the open world, or fleshing out the story and setpieces. And they chose the former because they knew western audiences would lap it up.

Even with more content, I can't help but worry that the whole de-centralized, modular 'Skyrim' model categorically makes any story, even compelling ones, feel fragmented and dissociative. MGSV, IMO, was designed around meta-commentating on this recent development in triple A games. Even the most recent Dragon Age, a series with a pedigree for top notch writing and depth, felt this way (to me anyway). When your consumer can get 120+ hour experiences from MMOs and other bloated triple A games, it puts a ton of pressure on devs to fill their games with content. It's not possible for anybody (except Projekt CDR) to write compelling stories, most of which being unrelated to each other, for potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay. Instead, most devs implement time sinks/ rinse and repeat mechanics that (usually) have severely diminishing returns for players in terms of fun.

I didn't play the Order: 1886, but the amount of flack that game got on the basis of its (admittedly extremely) short runtime alone cratered its chance to be a hit. And when your game has been in development hell for a decade, this pressure is likely all the more heavy.

 

[Adaren]

Isn't the lady on the logo supposed to be Lunafreya?

Spoiler

Yeah, but it's clear that it wasn't originally drawn with Luna in mind. Not only because Luna wasn't even a character when it was made, but also because Luna has a minor role in the plot and isn't "deserving" of being the sole person on the game's normal logo (the ending suggests that the devs felt the same way). The logo lady is also sleeping, which makes a lot of sense with Etro (who was regularly described as sleepy) and very little sense within the plot/themes of XV.

Spoiler

Basically, if the Versus XIII logo doesn't fit the game, then give the game a different logo. Don't market it with a logo that you know doesn't fit the game just so you can piggyback on some other game's hype.

 

[DrunkShogun]

I've moved on from the game and can accept most of the content being removed but the world of ruins should really have been kept in at the minimum. It's still a bad practice to show content in a trailer if it's not in the final game.

 

[Maintenance]

I'm legit asking: is it reasonable to expect so much from XV considering game development scales up exponentially?

If they want the franchise to be the top dog in quality and a future GOTY contender, yes. Otherwise they will just be churning out Tales or Star Ocean quality games that sell more. If they are fine with that, sure go ahead.