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FFXV and the mismarketing in its trailers. Discuss! (spoilers).

LordKasual

Banned
I'll be the first to admit,I know shit all about game development.

But I am gonna judge this game's artistic merit based on the final product we got,not some hypothetical conjecture about how it was developed.

...So Versus XIII has no impact on your opinion of this game, cool

The truth is this game lacked a strong backbone,it goes backwards in some aspects and is thoroughly unambitious in anything that isn't technical/graphics related.

You won't even find a majorly negative review of this game that has the audacity to call it it "unambitious".

You're stretching about as far as you can go right now to hate on this ga-

Also by this token,Motomu Toriyama should be considered an exceptional project manager as well.

He pushed out a fully functional open world game(Lightning Returns) in under two years from announcement to delivery.


XV is actually no better than Lightning Returns,but it sure looks nicer.

......and now we've hit critical levels of delusion and this isn't even fun anymore.


XV is garbage, Tabata is a directionless hack who ruined Nomura-san's amazing vision of a melodramatic kingdom hearts boy band trilogy and we've been left with this utterly unfinished, mismarketed, buggy, unambitious crap game with its crap camera and its crap battle system that you can beat by holding circle.

Did i miss anything

Edit:

I did, Stella.
 

HeelPower

Member
......and now we've hit critical levels of delusion and this isn't even fun anymore.


XV is critically and commercially much more successful than Lightning Returns. I've platinum'd both games and while i like Lightning Returns and it does alot of cool things, there's no comparison between the two. XV is much better in nearly every facet of the game.

And the reason why LR was made in two years is because it was reusing assets everywhere from XIII, XV's assets had to be built from the ground up.

LR has a better OST,and a(much) better & deeper battle system.

XV looks far better.It incomparably looks better.

Both suffer from awful narratives & derivative writing.

Both have very similar quest side design.

The games are really not too far off in terms of quality,just that LR had a much smaller budget.
 
How is this mismarketng? That's not malice or deceit. That's just the nature of a troubled development. It's the same with movies or other games that had a struggle through their development.

Things doesn't get cut, plot points doesn't get removed or reduced, for no reason or to mislead and trick or to anger fans.

you're confusing intention with result? there was no deliberately deceptive mismarketing. but, by showing a number of scenes that never made it into the game, there was absolutely a good amount of inadvertent mismarketing (where mismarketing is defined as advertising which includes material that isn't in the actual product itself)...
 
you're confusing intention with result? there was no deliberately deceptive mismarketing. but, by showing a number of scenes that never made it into the game, there was absolutely a good amount of inadvertent mismarketing (where mismarketing is defined as advertising which includes material that isn't in the actual product itself)...

Yeah, it's exactly like the new Steam policy. If your trailers/screenshots don't actually exist in the game, you should remove them.
 
I haven't read into it, but doesn't that policy have more to do with gameplay features rather than story?

Story is part of the experience. People who watched the trailer should probably expecting to experience the stuff that happened in there, but they won't.
 

kiaaa

Member
Story is part of the experience. People who watched the trailer should probably expecting to experience the stuff that happened in there, but they won't.

I get that, but my understanding was that Steam was specifically going after falsely marketed gameplay features.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
LR's world looks like it was developed by the Tales team.

I enjoyed LR but it's probably the ugliest FF game for its respective generation.
 
I hadn't been expecting any trailer content from the Nomura era, but I had been surprised how many recent trailer scenes with Tabata as a director weren't in the game. I do understand, though, that things absolutely get changed around in development, no matter whether its the gaming or film industry. I never quite know what to think on the matter, as in regards to XV and Rogue One, there were some scenes I was really looking forward to experiencing in the actual product. I also know that sometimes it's about salvaging what you can into a cohesive product, and shit happens along the way. It sucks either way.

I have to admit I was particularly disappointed at the loss of Dawn trailer scene with Regis holding a sleeping Noctis. It was heartbreaking and sweet, especially with a sleeping Noctis being a little shit and shoving Regis away, ha. The imagery was so good Square used the concept art on some steelbook copies of XV, the hell. I think that's why I assumed the scene must have still been in the game, because they were using the imagery on steelbooks at release.

Relating to Regis, I'm still so frustrated that the three pillars in Noctis' life were supposed to be his father, Luna, and the bros. Regis gets three minutes of screen time in I'm being generous, and Luna might get fifteen/twenty minutes. I'm legitimately baffled and disappointed how threadbare a lot of XV's story and characters are, it's like the game is continually try to indulge in a pay-off, without having the actual connective tissue story and character build-up to justify it. There's nothing wrong with a more straightforward story (which is what I really like about XV, and gave it a lot of potential), but that is no excuse for basic build-up to be missing throughout. Even though Square's gotten pretty freakin' stupid with the plots of its spin-off/sequels (also the KH franchise) over the years, even they still don't have basic issues like this. I think the lack of Regis is the most bizarre of all, considering the foundations of XV's narrative. Luna's treatment was extremely shitty, but Regis was even more important to Noctis' character, and the throughline of the overall narrative. Prompto is the only one with a strong sub-plot potential with the bros, and it is barely touched upon. Just. What. I wish they'd pulled back on the scale of the game and concentrated on the basic structure first.

For all my complaints, Noctis as a character at least came out pretty unscathed, and is the highlight of the game for me. He's fantastic, as was his character arc - which is should have been, since everyone is just a prop for his development. Regardless, he's easily one of my favorite FF leads.

I found it funny how they would actually market the game with Older Noctis. Despite the fact he only appears in the game for exactly one chapter. Like who the fuck thought that was a good idea. I remember at the time we must play as him for a good chunk cause the marketing team wouldn't be that stupid.

Yeah, I'd assumed we'd spend a lot more time playing as Older Noctis than we did, considering he was an advertising point. I guess the marketing was for those who weren't a fan of the default look? 'Don't worry, guys, you'll get to play as Noctis Snow later!'
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
It was Tri Ace, I think.

tri-Ace games usually look good for B tier games (SO5 still looked good, though Exist Archive looked fine for a Vita title) but LR looks kinda bad compared to the other games they developed.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Do people really only watch trailers? In this day and age of Twitch and YouTube, is it still possible for people to really not have any idea of what a game is before they buy it?
 
Cherrypick masterpieces in order to defend a bad game, for me that's the new estabilished standard for low:


  • [*]First comparing Leviathan Battle to Zone of the Enders 2 gameplay.
    No chance in hell I can accept this kind of crap.
  • Now comparing the MGS concept trailers to FFXV.
    Aside from the CGI looks, unfinished menus and camera angles, what more do you loose in the final game? I don't think the comparison is even fair. God, look at the Leviathan section, Cor dialogue and etc.

Wait did this actually fucking happen? I think I'm gonna have to cut someone. I thought I saw a new record low for GAF with that OT thread about reserved theater seats being a bad thing....

Do people really only watch trailers? In this day and age of Twitch and YouTube, is it still possible for people to really not have any idea of what a game is before they buy it?

This shouldn't be that surprising and would be obvious if you think about how serious communities like this treat spoilers upon release.

Most users like to go into consumer entertainment blind and consider that important to the experience.
 

Lucent

Member
Yeah it's been pretty disappointing so far. 10 years to get what we got. It sucks they spent so much time and money on stuff that didn't get included. Made the game seem epic but it's really not been. Game feels so disjointed.

It would be amazing if they fixed it by adding more cutscenes and stuff to flesh it out over time. But whatever. At least they got this out of the way. Stop trying to create new engines and just worry about the game. Make FFXVI awesome. And take 3 years tops.
 
3. Luna and Cor were never pitched as main characters

final_fantasy_xv_logo_by_eldi13-d69dgnf.png


20161117_052848_thumb.png
 

Rising_Hei

Member
LR has a better OST,and a(much) better & deeper battle system.

XV looks far better.It incomparably looks better.

Both suffer from awful narratives & derivative writing.

Both have very similar quest side design.

The games are really not too far off in terms of quality,just that LR had a much smaller budget.

Are you serious? that was one of the worse experiences i ever had, and the writing and plot in that game was pathetic (worse than most soap operas), FFXV is much, much better overall even with its shortcomings
 

Chemo

Member
Guys, the FFXV update road map basically straight up admits that the base game isn't even done being developed yet. Some of this shit might show up later in a patch, or in DLC.

That said, I couldn't give less of a sloppy fuck. Stuff gets cut during game development ALL the TIME. Learn how stuff works.
 
This is not a no mans sky situation. Yes, there are a ton of story related moments in there that didn't make the cut. However the gameplay stuff mostly made it intact if not in exactly the same form. Hell this isn't even a 'downgrade' situation like the division, watchdogs, witcher 3 and countless other games. It basically looks and plays like what we saw in the trailers and it is absolutely an awesome game, not to mention the best final fantasy game in many many years. I wouldn't call this misleading at all. Nms is still marketing itself on steam with screens and videos of content that isn't in the game. Ffxv was not missing core gameplay features in the final product. And I mean 'core' as in at least half if not more of the promised features that were just absent. Not to mention square has already been quick out the gate to promise concrete additions that adresss criticism where as hello games has been vague, didn't even acknowledge what was criticized and added things like base building that nobody asked for instead of features that were promised and missing. It's just silly that you would even try that comparison. Stuff gets cut, they weren't on national tv days before release pretending this stuff was still in the game. Get a grip.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Guys, the FFXV update road map basically straight up admits that the base game isn't even done being developed yet. Some of this shit might show up later in a patch, or in DLC.

That said, I couldn't give less of a sloppy fuck. Stuff gets cut during game development ALL the TIME. Learn how stuff works.
How often do you see developers release a trailer and then based on backlash of said trailer release it AGAIN? Some of the stuff in the OP was advertised as being in the game less than year from the original release date.
 
You mean to say you knew that was Luna before you beat the game?

No (though I assumed it), just that the notion Luna was not pitched as a main character is laughable.

She is prominently featured in virtually every single marketing material. Her voice actress is one of seven in a main-cast video. She is the game's logo.

Therefore, she doesn't get a free pass for being a poorly developed, rarely seen character
killed off in a poor attempt at cheesing emotion
because "only the bros are main characters".
 
I hadn't been expecting any trailer content from the Nomura era, but I had been surprised how many recent trailer scenes with Tabata as a director weren't in the game. I do understand, though, that things absolutely get changed around in development, no matter whether its the gaming or film industry. I never quite know what to think on the matter, as in regards to XV and Rogue One, there were some scenes I was really looking forward to experiencing in the actual product. I also know that sometimes it's about salvaging what you can into a cohesive product, and shit happens along the way. It sucks either way.

I have to admit I was particularly disappointed at the loss of Dawn trailer scene with Regis holding a sleeping Noctis. It was heartbreaking and sweet, especially with a sleeping Noctis being a little shit and shoving Regis away, ha. The imagery was so good Square used the concept art on some steelbook copies of XV, the hell. I think that's why I assumed the scene must have still been in the game, because they were using the imagery on steelbooks at release.

Relating to Regis, I'm still so frustrated that the three pillars in Noctis' life were supposed to be his father, Luna, and the bros. Regis gets three minutes of screen time in I'm being generous, and Luna might get fifteen/twenty minutes. I'm legitimately baffled and disappointed how threadbare a lot of XV's story and characters are, it's like the game is continually try to indulge in a pay-off, without having the actual connective tissue story and character build-up to justify it. There's nothing wrong with a more straightforward story (which is what I really like about XV, and gave it a lot of potential), but that is no excuse for basic build-up to be missing throughout. Even though Square's gotten pretty freakin' stupid with the plots of its spin-off/sequels (also the KH franchise) over the years, even they still don't have basic issues like this. I think the lack of Regis is the most bizarre of all, considering the foundations of XV's narrative. Luna's treatment was extremely shitty, but Regis was even more important to Noctis' character, and the throughline of the overall narrative. Prompto is the only one with a strong sub-plot potential with the bros, and it is barely touched upon. Just. What. I wish they'd pulled back on the scale of the game and concentrated on the basic structure first.

For all my complaints, Noctis as a character at least came out pretty unscathed, and is the highlight of the game for me. He's fantastic, as was his character arc - which is should have been, since everyone is just a prop for his development. Regardless, he's easily one of my favorite FF leads
Agree with all of this. Luna didn't have much interaction but she served a role and we could fill in the blanks of her and noctis. Regis was meant to have this close relation with noctis and we are shown nothing other than being told how he felt. Could have had some flashback/dream events to expand on that relation. I mean noctis doesn't even get any closure on his fathers death even though kingsglaive elaborates on that.
 
Knowing that before or after you beat the game doesn't change the fact that she is a main character. Hell, even the main goal for the most of the game is trying to meet back up with her.

She has an important role in the story, but I'd hardly call her a main character. The four dudes are the main characters.
 

kiuo

Member
Agree with all of this. Luna didn't have much interaction but she served a role and we could fill in the blanks of her and noctis. Regis was meant to have this close relation with noctis and we are shown nothing other than being told how he felt. Could have had some flashback/dream events to expand on that relation. I mean noctis doesn't even get any closure on his fathers death even though kingsglaive elaborates on that.

Totally agreed with you and the person you just quoted. Especially found the ending awkward.
Where the ghost of the Regis appears while noctis gets stabbed by the summons.
It was weird how how much of a spiritual prop he was for noctis during that scene because barely anything from the game showed any relations between them at all.
 

RobRSG

Member
Wait did this actually fucking happen? I think I'm gonna have to cut someone. I thought I saw a new record low for GAF with that OT thread about reserved theater seats being a bad thing....

It was on the "Let's talk about Leviathan (Final Fantasy XV) [Spoilers]" thread.
 
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