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Fighting Games Weekly | May 27 - June 2nd | Check Your E-Privilege

Shouta

Shouta

Member
Deps said:
Nothing, it's just some top tekken players calling the game random and asking for 3/5 because they aren't placing as well as they did in T6, iirc Kor started the whole 3/5 thing. Though to be fair, even the Koreans said TTT2 was random when they first got it, now they say it's fine. I think the game is just very unforgiving. Until you put in a lot of time and get used to the crazy amount of variables you need to keep track of it can feel random, and the U.S as a whole is still not very good at TTT2.
Click to expand...

Damage is also really high. It's far above SF4, around the level of SFXT, but not quite as high as X-Factor Marvel 3 or VF.

But basically, Tag 2 is like a 2 or 3 punish game as most team comps and combos are somewhere near 40-50% damage. Rage makes Counterhits even stronger and basically you can beat folks with just a few loose hits in that mode.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
SixMachine said:
Tekken is set at 3/5 rounds though. Doesn't that still provide way much more time to adapt to your opponent than any other game besides maybe KOF since it's characters you go through not rounds. Maybe someone who plays both Tekken and other games can enlighten me on this and how it feels in comparison, because it would seem something like getting Akuma vortexed multiple times in a row might feel more random than what happens in a regular Tekken match.
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Yeah, people who try and compare Tekken to Marvel leave this key point out. Marvel is 3/5 with 1 round per match. Tekken is not.

The real comparison is the total amount of time it can potentially take for a set to finish, and how long a typical set takes to finish. That is all that matters, and all games should be equalized along these lines. I'm entirely certain that Tekken 2/3 is still longer than Marvel 3/5 on both accounts. Not that I'm saying it should be even shorter, I'm just making it clear how poor of an argument it is to compare the two just based on match count. It's emphasizing one fact while ignoring all others.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Tekken gives you way more time and rounds to adapt than a 3/5 Marvel game. Like its not even close. Marvel players should be petitioning for a FT5 for every match to "limit randomness like TTT2".

Honestly 3/5 rounds 2/3 matches is more than enough for TTT2.
 
V

vulva

Member
In marvel a game is complete when you kill 3 characters
In tekken a match is complete when you kill 3 characters
 
V

vulva

Member
I still don't get why xfactor exists. Didn't someone in here try to say that real comebacks aren't viable in marvel and those anomalies that exist don't count or something? Ridiculous
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Karsticles said:
Yeah, people who try and compare Tekken to Marvel leave this key point out. Marvel is 3/5 with 1 round per match. Tekken is not.

The real comparison is the total amount of time it can potentially take for a set to finish, and how long a typical set takes to finish. That is all that matters, and all games should be equalized along these lines. I'm entirely certain that Tekken 2/3 is still longer than Marvel 3/5 on both accounts. Not that I'm saying it should be even shorter, I'm just making it clear how poor of an argument it is to compare the two just based on match count. It's emphasizing one fact while ignoring all others.
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Yeah, it's always been flawed, some people still defend the idea to day even though when you compare the number of "clean slates" of vitality you start with, Marvel doesn't have that many. Marvel is pretty fast too, but 3/5 works best for both TOs and players, it's the middleground.

vulva said:
In marvel a game is complete when you kill 3 characters
In tekken a match is complete when you kill 3 characters
Click to expand...
vulva said:
I still don't get why xfactor exists. Didn't someone in here try to say that real comebacks aren't viable in marvel and those anomalies that exist don't count or something? Ridiculous
Click to expand...
There's vulva, right on time!
 
K

Karsticles

Member
vulva said:
marvel is awful


come on enzo, you know in real life I'm a good dude :(
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Good dude.
Hates Marvel.

Pick one IMO.

By the way, that Allcaps guy who started all the drama at UFGT9 mains Tekken - he doesn't even play Marvel. That's how irrelevant he was to the actual situation at hand when he ranted.

A Pretty Panda said:
In tekken tag tournament 2 a match is complete when you kill 9 characters
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I've never spent the 20 minutes required to see a whole match to know. ;-)
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
vulva said:
marvel is awful

come on enzo, you know in real life I'm a good dude :(
Click to expand...
iLGEHrd4Y0MjC.gif
 
S

SixMachine

Member
vulva said:
I still don't get why xfactor exists. Didn't someone in here try to say that real comebacks aren't viable in marvel and those anomalies that exist don't count or something? Ridiculous
Click to expand...

When someone says that it can help less skilled players feel like that they can get a win or help kill a character but the more you think about it, the more it makes less sense that it can help new players. It's a fact that more experienced people will take advantage of mechanics, so it actually benefits them more greatly than the less skilled player because x-factor is another resource they can use to swing the advantage further in their direction. Not only does it boost offense but since it can be used defensively, it would make it also much harder to kill a character for the new guy who could be attacking the guy in blockstun, who could xfactor out and grab them or something.

Same with ultras, someone like Daigo or Valle would use their ultra better than the new guy who probably doesn't even know how to use it properly. Which makes it that even if they did lower the better player's life down, they have another tool they have to deal with which would make it harder to win. Though at high levels, you can see how ultras effect matchups and see how people try to build it through focus attacks, but the low level of play won't know how to use it properly.
 
D

darkblade77

Member
vulva said:
In marvel a game is complete when you kill 3 characters
In tekken a match is complete when you kill 3 characters
Click to expand...

Tekken x Marvel let's go. 3/5 tag game except happy birthdays all over the place, and when you get killed off a happy birthday you lose two rounds instead of one.

Salt unto rivers
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Dahbomb, do your stats suggest the difference between say Marvel victories with and without a "dark" level 3 x-factor character?

Would be interesting to know how often it is a factor in tournaments.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Passive Assassin said:
Why isn't SSFIV 3/5?
Click to expand...

Because GWong and Ricky Ortiz.

But seriously, 2/3 feels pretty right for SF4. Generally the better player seems to win, but there is still room for upsets.

Incidentally that is why I prefer 2/3 marvel too. Sure it is more random, but it adds that "bullshit can happen and cost the set" edge. Generally now something works once and then it is back to the same old Vergil shit.
 
A

AAK

Member
Oh look, people in here begging to change the format of a game they will never compete in. If you want to make a difference then enter a Tekken tournament and tell the organizer you didn't like it. If not, keep lodging your complaints at the screen in front of you. The entire community petitioned Larry to change TTT2 to the MLG rules for FR and he listened. The community asked Russell to change the TTT2 to 3/5 at Toryuken and he listened. The competitors asked to have TTT2 3/5 at UFGT and they changed it to accommodate it for the complete top 8. If you don't like it, go to these tournaments and ask them to change it back. The TO's listen.
 
K

kick51

Banned
Karsticles said:
By the way, that Allcaps guy who started all the drama at UFGT9 mains Tekken - he doesn't even play Marvel. That's how irrelevant he was to the actual situation at hand when he ranted.
Click to expand...


Allcaps is metagame at the highest difficulty level. If I saw I was up against a CORN member at a tourney, I'd run out to best buy and get some overpriced noise canceling headphones and a copy of whale songs or some shit.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
AAK said:
Oh look, people in here begging to change the format of a game they will never compete in. If you want to make a difference then enter a Tekken tournament and tell the organizer you didn't like it. If not, keep lodging your complaints at the screen in front of you. The entire community petitioned Larry to change TTT2 to the MLG rules for FR and he listened. The community asked Russell to change the TTT2 to 3/5 at Toryuken and he listened. The competitors asked to have TTT2 3/5 at UFGT and they changed it to accommodate it for the complete top 8. If you don't like it, go to these tournaments and ask them to change it back. The TO's listen.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the most important part, when your game is played at 6am on the Friday and not streamed because of the format, don't go on twitter and whinge about it. When your game gets no exposure and people stop showing up to play it in favour of other games? Don't get upset when you don't get a trophy.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
AAK said:
Oh look, people in here begging to change the format of a game they will never compete in. If you want to make a difference then enter a Tekken tournament and tell the organizer you didn't like it. If not, keep lodging your complaints at the screen in front of you. The entire community petitioned Larry to change TTT2 to the MLG rules for FR and he listened. The community asked Russell to change the TTT2 to 3/5 at Toryuken and he listened. The competitors asked to have TTT2 3/5 at UFGT and they changed it to accommodate it for the complete top 8. If you don't like it, go to these tournaments and ask them to change it back. The TO's listen.
Click to expand...
It might be worthwhile to sign up for TTT2 just to tell the TO that I feel guilty about how much time my game is taking up, and that I respectfully request that it be lowered to 2/3.

kick51 said:
Allcaps is metagame at the highest difficulty level. If I saw I was up against a CORN member at a tourney, I'd run out to best buy and get some overpriced noise canceling headphones and a copy of whale songs or some shit.
Click to expand...
They walk around like a mob and shout at whoever a member is playing against. Like, they actively do this, taunting people during matches. It was the only thing I didn't like about UFGT9 aside from the continental breakfast costing $17.50.
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
Professor Beef said:
This has been an awful past few days for enzo.
Click to expand...

It's ok, he can still go see Iron Man 3 again!

;P

Karsticles said:
It might be worthwhile to sign up for TTT2 just to tell the TO that I feel guilty about how much time my game is taking up, and that I respectfully request that it be lowered to 2/3.


They walk around like a mob and shout at whoever a member is playing against. Like, they actively do this, taunting people during matches. It was the only thing I didn't like about UFGT9 aside from the continental breakfast costing $17.50.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what sounds worse, how CORN acts at tournaments or the price of that breakfast. Those better have been some godlike muffins they offered.
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
If players are petitioning for sets to increase from 2/3 to 3/5, doesn't that mean they think it's a bad/randumb game? Why isn't 2/3 enough if the game is actually good?
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Professor Beef said:
This has been an awful past few days for enzo.
Click to expand...
Make it better Beef.

Hard mode: without Iron Man or Kanye jokes, and without vicariously expressing your obsession with RedRapper.

Beast Legacy said:
Maybe Marvel Heroes releasing will be the turning point. Though I have to thank enzo for the Mick Foley notice a few days ago in the weekly thread. Got to meet him and he was super nice and arrived on time despite the rain.
Click to expand...
You actually went to that? Haha, I thought nobody noticed that post. Glad it was helpful :p

Smedwicks said:
It's ok, he can still go see Iron Man 3 again!

;P
Click to expand...
Oh my god I just remembered F&F6 came out this past weekend and I didn't go and see it either.

WTF this has been a horrible past few days.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
vulva said:
I still don't get why xfactor exists. Didn't someone in here try to say that real comebacks aren't viable in marvel and those anomalies that exist don't count or something? Ridiculous
Click to expand...
I don't know who said that (I think Karst did) but there's a reason why something like XF is sort of needed in a team based game like Marvel. I am totally against comeback mechanics in 1v1 games but in 3v3 its a different situation.

In 3v3 assist based fighting game, when you lose one character you are not just losing 1/3rd of your health you are losing 1/3rd of your toolset. Its like in Tekken if you lose 1/3rd of your health suddenly you can't do EWGF anymore or you can't do 50% damage combos anymore. A character backed up by 2 assists is almost always stronger than a solo character. Its not until you are put into this situation that you realize how ridiculous it is when a solo character is trying to fight against a fully loaded team.

I'm in a game right now but I will elaborate in this a bit later if needed.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
I don't know who said that (I think Karst did) but there's a reason why something like XF is sort of needed in a team based game like Marvel. I am totally against comeback mechanics in 1v1 games but in 3v3 its a different situation.

In 3v3 assist based fighting game, when you lose one character you are not just losing 1/3rd of your health you are losing 1/3rd of your toolset. Its like in Tekken if you lose 1/3rd of your health suddenly you can't do EWGF anymore or you can't do 50% damage combos anymore. A character backed up by 2 assists is almost always stronger than a solo character. Its not until you are put into this situation that you realize how ridiculous it is when a solo character is trying to fight against a fully loaded team.

I'm in a game right now but I will elaborate in this a bit later if needed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's my general argument. X-Factor temporarily returns your character strength to roughly team levels. For a few characters, you go above team levels of strength, and those balance issues should be dealt with.
 
A

AAK

Member
toddhunter said:
Don't forget the most important part, when your game is played at 6am on the Friday and not streamed because of the format, don't go on twitter and whinge about it. When your game gets no exposure and people stop showing up to play it in favour of other games? Don't get upset when you don't get a trophy.
Click to expand...

Interesting correlation you pulled out of your ass, but yes, if fewer people do show up for their specific game, then the TO has every right to do what they want with it regarding the stream. But just so you know, Final Round is the only major that did 3/5 for TTT2 for the majority of the matches and that had approximately 250 attendees. NCR, SCR, ECT and Civil War did 2/3 for everything except losers/winners finals and none of those got more than 70.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
AAK said:
If you want to make a difference then enter a Tekken tournament and tell the organizer you didn't like it. If not, keep lodging your complaints at the screen in front of you.
Click to expand...

AAK said:
Interesting correlation you pulled out of your ass, but yes, if fewer people do show up for their specific game, then the TO has every right to do what they want with it regarding the stream. But just so you know, Final Round is the only major that did 3/5 for TTT2 for the majority of the matches and that had approximately 250 attendees. NCR, SCR, ECT and Civil War did 2/3 for everything except losers/winners finals and none of those got more than 70.
Click to expand...

So what is the difference? By your original post those people have no right to request 3/5 because they didn't show up to those tournaments.
 
V

vulva

Member
Karsticles said:
Yeah, that's my general argument. X-Factor temporarily returns your character strength to roughly team levels. For a few characters, you go above team levels of strength, and those balance issues should be dealt with.
Click to expand...

I just can't understand this statement when marvel 2 exited just fine without it.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
vulva said:
I just can't understand this statement when marvel 2 exited just fine without it.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Marvel 2 was "just fine" in any regard.

That said I don't think MvC3 NEEDS X-Factor, but I understand why it is there and why it was implemented. It's actually not that bad balance wise, the player who uses it more intelligently always wins, just like every other resource or game mechanic. I think the damage/speed numbers are pretty good too.

http://www.twitch.tv/fgtvlive

FChamp training with Dorm/Morrigan/Phoenix.
 
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