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[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

If they give Dark Knight some sort of dark possession mode I will strongly consider choosing to level that first over Samurai.

Other than Blood of the Dragon and maybe Dreadwyrm trance there aren't really any true super saiyan abilities in the game.

If they can give one to a tank that would be really cool.

 

[Chase17]

Picked up the game on PS4 during the sale, but get an error 9002 every time 30 seconds into logging in. Guess it's the college wifi not being strong enough. Oh well! Guess I'll give it another shot tomorrow and see if anything is different.

 

[Stone Ocean]

No one is saying that numbers can't be tweaked or buffs can't be given out or that casual players can't want buffs, just saying that basing the decision partly on balance is weird when that balance is only really significant to a small portion of the playerbase in a small portion of the game's total content.

That playerbase is still bigger than the amount of people who would seriously play a new tank so by that logic why even make new tanks when only a small number of people will use them?

 

[Chille]

The issue with MNK I think aside from that ramp up time is the fact they don't bring much support to the party. A traited Mantra is nice but what else do they have? A DRK can do what Dragon Kick does and a NIN has Trick Attack, Goad, Shadewalker, and Smoke Screen. DRG boosts the dps of bards and also has a party wide DPS buff (well if you're close enough).

I would love a buff that lets me spread my current stack of greased lightning to everyone near me, they get the full buff till it wears off.

 

[Eldren]

Nova Crystallis are tweeting a summary of this after-show presentation and there are a few nuggets of info. SE are already working on a PS4 Pro patch and they're planning a XIV version of blitzball.

 

[iammeiam]

I'm pretty worried they will make AST a lot worse cause this team can't balance well anyway.

I really hope not...

AST is incredibly broken from an endgame perspective. WAR is broken from a general utility perspective, but AST is singlehandedly destroying any delusions of legitimacy in trying to excel at endgame. Getting fed a good run of cards from an AST should not catapult me from average performance to top 5% of my job, that's just incredibly silly. The problem is that a lot of their current reason to be in endgame raid groups is essentially that Balance is broken and nothing hits hard enough to require WHM throughput; they'd need to nerf Balance while simultaneously figuring out how to bolster AST too functionally compete with both WHM and SCH in their jobs which is what they failed to do in HW.

Which is why I'm cool with no new healer; the AST challenge is going to be interesting to watch them try to tackle.

Because it does matter? I don't do Extreme/Savage content while its relevant. I still feel extremely self concious when I play Paladin or Monk because I know that we could be beating stuff faster/more efficiently if I was playing another job. Players who chose to play those jobs shouldn't feel like they have to work three times as hard as someone equally skilled in another job of the same role just because their job can't do what the game is currently geared towards.

PLD is terribly broken in general and needs a fix, but it's super important to note that the problem with monk is something that actually should not matter at all if you're just doing casual content. Monk is still very good at holding up its own in terms of damage, and is incredibly strong for DF content because you don't rely on other jobs to justify your contribution. A NIN without a WAR is going to be less effective; a DRG without a ranged in the group loses a giant chunk of their utility. A bard with no caster and two non-DPSing healers is going to contribute less. Monk's damage being self contained also means that you can be effective in assisting your group without having somebody else underperforming decreasing your contribution.
There's a pretty important distinction between the broken-for-raiding jobs (AST in the stupid OP direction, monk and casters in the sort of pointless direction), and the broken-in-general jobs like PLD that need to be fixed period, not just fixed relative to a theoretical raid group.

 

[scy]

I don't see any significant changes to how tanking or healing work, but hopefully I'm wrong. I imagine they'll slightly buff Paladin DPS and call it a day.

Why not just increase boss damage to require actual active tanking and healing, and increase damage from DPS classes somewhat to compensate? The fact that end game is focused around everyone maximizing damage is strange to me in a game that adheres to the trinity concept.

For what it's worth, that's sort of what I mean by changes to tanking / healing? There's no real active mitigation outside of Inner Beast. It's a lot of just smash cooldowns whenever. Tank stances don't allow for anything. DPS stances don't allow for OT capability. Increasing damage outright won't make tanking more interesting itself, just means slapping a passive thing on? So I do hope they do something for how they've designed tank / healing since it's a pretty bland setup all in all; my GCDs from moment-to-moment should interact with how I tank and not simply be the thing I'm doing between remembering a defensive cooldown / FELL CLEAVING HARDER 20k CRITS THE DREAM.

 

[Stone Ocean]

AST is incredibly broken from an endgame perspective. WAR is broken from a general utility perspective, but AST is singlehandedly destroying any delusions of legitimacy in trying to excel at endgame. Getting fed a good run of cards from an AST should not catapult me from average performance to top 5% of my job, that's just incredibly silly. The problem is that a lot of their current reason to be in endgame raid groups is essentially that Balance is broken and nothing hits hard enough to require WHM throughput; they'd need to nerf Balance while simultaneously figuring out how to bolster AST too functionally compete with both WHM and SCH in their jobs which is what they failed to do in HW.

Which is why I'm cool with no new healer; the AST challenge is going to be interesting to watch them try to tackle.

Honestly? I wish SE would remove TA variants from the game. TA is fine because its super contained and bursty while Foes only affects a limited number of people, but it's really hard to compete with the utility and the synergy of on demand raid wide damage. Hell, maybe even remove vuln down effects altogether and keep synergy in pairs instead of party wide.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Got a MCH to 60 in POTD to try it out.

Initial impressions after an hour or two at 60? Job has about 25% too many buttons. Not saying they need to do a genocidal culling like WoW recently did, but the job feels so bloated. There should be like a two hotbar limit design rule for judging these things, I swear.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Kinda hate how that darn balance card has warped what is considered good dps or not. I remember doing about 2.2k as an i252 NIN and told that I suck.

 

[studyguy]

My raid DPS scream when they see multiple balances getting pulled. It's crazy.

 

[iammeiam]

My raid DPS scream when they see multiple balances getting pulled. It's crazy.

30k wildfire dream tho

 

[studyguy]

'Why are we suddenly bad' is a legit question after a good AST run.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

This is what I want from DRK in 4.0

You're playing DRK and you have this dark rage meter on your screen.

When it fills up you can press a button that makes you go into Dark Possession mode. You are completely covered in darkness with red glowing eyes and dark wings coming out of your back.

It would be like Warlock's Soulburn group buff where it transforms everyone and gives them new outfits with glowing wings alongside the other buffs except just affecting the Dark Knight since a group version might not fit.

Video reference for Soulburn appearance change.

I mean if they are trying to stress job identity this is the sort of thing I'd like to see emphasized

 

[Noi]

PLD is terribly broken in general and needs a fix, but it's super important to note that the problem with monk is something that actually should not matter at all if you're just doing casual content. Monk is still very good at holding up its own in terms of damage, and is incredibly strong for DF content because you don't rely on other jobs to justify your contribution. A NIN without a WAR is going to be less effective; a DRG without a ranged in the group loses a giant chunk of their utility. A bard with no caster and two non-DPSing healers is going to contribute less. Monk's damage being self contained also means that you can be effective in assisting your group without having somebody else underperforming decreasing your contribution.
There's a pretty important distinction between the broken-for-raiding jobs (AST in the stupid OP direction, monk and casters in the sort of pointless direction), and the broken-in-general jobs like PLD that need to be fixed period, not just fixed relative to a theoretical raid group.

I'm aware of that much, which is why I still play it, but there's just silly aspects of the job even in casual content that make me scratch my head that don't seem to be an issue for other dps. Simple stuff like TP consumption during AoE being higher due to having to do a full 3 gcd combo for AoE (with demolish requiring more positioning than the other AoE skills, and AoD being pretty pathetic for damage), taking longer to ramp up to their max damage than the others/getting penalized harder for losing their self-buff between pulls, and having the highest number of practically dead skills on a dps. It's not enough to make me stop playing the job, but I hope it's all addressed for SB cause it's sure as heck annoying.

Plus it'd sure be nice if I could do something to help other players who aren't also monks.

 

[Haly]

ow the edge

 

[Vic_Viper]

Is there a rundown on how the Samurai job will work? As in what these "stances"(Snow,Moon,and Flower) are?

from Nova Crystallis:

"The Samurai will engage enemies up close with their katana and ”single-handedly deal massive damage." They will learn ”Iai" techniques and other traditional Far Eastern swordplay. Your abilities will involve the mastery of ”Sen" and its three forces: ”Setsu" (Snow), ”Getsu" (Moon), and ”Ka" (Flower). You will store energy in your katana and unleash it in special attacks."

Hope they do a video showing each of the 3 forces

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

ow the edge

This pain is nothing to me.

 

[scy]

Kinda hate how that darn balance card has warped what is considered good dps or not. I remember doing about 2.2k as an i252 NIN and told that I suck.

Context is important. Opener burst? That's pretty bad (like, you can be double that levels). A9S? That's reasonably average depending on kill time, how much padding, did I mention kill time yet. A10-A12s of varying levels of "preeeeeetty good" and "competitive top 10% range."

Edit: Not to say I don't agree that Balance is dumb at this point; I think a few of my best runs basically came down to "neat, we got 3 AoE Balances and not 2."

My raid DPS scream when they see multiple balances getting pulled. It's crazy.

Fuck everyone, I'm not pulling until it's AoE Balance.

It's fine. We can wait.

 

[Tragicomedy]

For what it's worth, that's sort of what I mean by changes to tanking / healing? There's no real active mitigation outside of Inner Beast. It's a lot of just smash cooldowns whenever. Tank stances don't allow for anything. DPS stances don't allow for OT capability. Increasing damage outright won't make tanking more interesting itself, just means slapping a passive thing on? So I do hope they do something for how they've designed tank / healing since it's a pretty bland setup all in all; my GCDs from moment-to-moment should interact with how I tank and not simply be the thing I'm doing between remembering a defensive cooldown / FELL CLEAVING HARDER 20k CRITS THE DREAM.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the fix is other than redoing most boss mechanics. I tanked and healed on WoW through Wrath and everything was about mitigation and effective healing throughput. It might be the slower skill cooldown nature in this game, but that never feels like the case here. I find the idea that healers are expected to constantly DPS a bit off-putting. Even worse is a system where classes designed to, you know, tank, are expected to maximize the time they spend in DPS stances. It's such a foreign concept to me. Not "bad" necessarily, just not what I've come to expect from other trinity concepts.

When people say paladins are worthless, they don't mean that. They mean that paladins do less damage than their counterparts and provide little to no advantage. It's literally about a tank doing suboptimal damage.

Got a MCH to 60 in POTD to try it out.

Initial impressions after an hour or two at 60? Job has about 25% too many buttons. Not saying they need to do a genocidal culling like WoW recently did, but the job feels so bloated. There should be like a two hotbar limit design rule for judging these things, I swear.

I honestly feel every class has 25%+ too many skills. Lots of them feel redundant or extremely situational. I think there's a healthy middle ground between the WoW model and the bloated nature here.

That's partially why I just added this on PC as well. Controller scheme on PS4 is fantastic, but navigating the skill bloat feels easier to me on PC. I'll likely pick up a wireless mouse and keyboard combo soon and play both that way. Anyone know how seamlessly that works? Suggested M/KB combos?

 

[Dark Schala]

Kinda hate how that darn balance card has warped what is considered good dps or not. I remember doing about 2.2k as an i252 NIN and told that I suck.

Honestly the biggest thing I'm a little disappointed with is being asked to come as (Noct)AST to help out with a friend's Alex weekly or their VA or whatever else instead of my main, which is Scholar, because of multiple balances and other things AST brings to the table. Honestly, I play AST worse than SCH and WHM put together but since I pull multiple balances to balance out with my Diurnal AST cohealer, I guess it stops mattering at a point.

I started healing Coil and other raids as WHM and I've really come to like it but I don't think a lot of things in FFXIV hit hard enough, outside of tankbusters, to warrant some of their high potency heals. Because, heck, from what I came to realize is that the best defense is a good offense. I really hope they fix the balancing, but I do feel like that'd require nerfing Balance? I didn't play during ARR and I only swapped to healing for good from Ninja/Bard during 3.3 so my only impressions of balancing from the team seems to be "pls buff this". I only know they changed Lustrate between ARR and HW.

I dunno, I went to bed with Noi feeling disappointed and woke up still feeling disappointed. Partially because Samurai looks slow, and partially because I feel like the team isn't too good at balancing so their idea of leaving Tanks/Healers as-is and fixing it for the expansion with the new skill system or other stuff in the works puts me a little on-edge.

I'm aware of that much, which is why I still play it, but there's just silly aspects of the job even in casual content that make me scratch my head that don't seem to be an issue for other dps. Simple stuff like TP consumption during AoE being higher due to having to do a full 3 gcd combo for AoE (with demolish requiring more positioning than the other AoE skills, and AoD being pretty pathetic for damage), taking longer to ramp up to their max damage than the others/getting penalized harder for losing their self-buff between pulls, and having the highest number of practically dead skills on a dps. It's not enough to make me stop playing the job, but I hope it's all addressed for SB cause it's sure as heck annoying.

Plus it'd sure be nice if I could do something to help other players who aren't also monks.

how about that one ilm punch huh

 

[scy]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the fix is other than redoing most boss mechanics. I tanked and healed on WoW through Wrath and everything was about mitigation and effective healing throughput. It might be the slower skill cooldown nature in this game, but that never feels like the case here. I find the idea that healers are expected to constantly DPS a bit off-putting. Even worse is a system where classes designed to, you know, tank, are expected to maximize the time they spend in DPS stances. It's such a foreign concept to me. Not "bad" necessarily, just not what I've come to expect from other trinity concepts.

Having also just come (back) from playing some WoW, that was also a DPS-centric meta? It just didn't matter because tanking and healing involved more actual time dedicated to them that getting to DPS was a luxury. XIV is very spiky so you have a lot of time with fuck all to do.

Personally, I'd shuffle more skills behind the tank stance so you're tied to it when actively tanking. To compensate, more reactive things when actively tanking to make up for the flat damage loss. Meanwhile, OT stance has more responsibility in our relevant tank debuffs as well as the base higher damage. Then we can start worrying about more maintenance damage on the tanks and less just big busters.

When people say paladins are worthless, they don't mean that. They mean that paladins do less damage than their counterparts and provide little to no advantage. It's literally about a tank doing suboptimal damage.

This isn't quite true? They do less damage but they're also objectively the worst tank when it comes to the fights as they're designed: Their cooldowns all sync the worst with the fights. In the super fast kills with no padding, PLD will actually do pretty okay vs DRK when it comes to damage output. They're just going to be worse at actually taking damage AND worse at helping raid wide damage (unless you have a MNK but then you're also lowering rDPS anyway or going triple melee) as well as worse utility provided in things like ranged AoE pulling, AoE damage, mobility, etc.

Honestly the biggest thing I'm a little disappointed with is being asked to come as (Noct)AST to help out with a friend's Alex weekly or their VA or whatever else instead of my main, which is Scholar, because of multiple balances and other things AST brings to the table. Honestly, I play AST worse than SCH and WHM put together but since I pull multiple balances to balance out with my Diurnal AST cohealer, I guess it stops mattering at a point.

I'm all for min/maxing stuff but I really do draw the line at purposefully AST/AST for card stacking (same for MCH/MCH Hypercharge, BRD/BRD Foe, etc.) as it feels really ... artificial and game-y at that point? I say as hoping for good card RNG runs and so on but yeah. The doubling-tripling up on damage buffs to game things is a pretty shitty part of the game currently.

I dunno, I went to bed with Noi feeling disappointed and woke up still feeling disappointed. Partially because Samurai looks slow, and partially because I feel like the team isn't too good at balancing so their idea of leaving Tanks/Healers as-is and fixing it for the expansion with the new skill system or other stuff in the works puts me a little on-edge.

I was really hoping for SAM as a tank if only as being able to go "Okay, they have a plan for WAR having OT on lock!" At this point, I'm left just going I hope they're completely overhauling existing systems instead of just bandaid fixes like VIT over STR as our primary stat.

 

[Squishy3]

It's too early to say samurai feels slow when we saw like what, 4-5 actions?

The probably mudra-like slashes (perform in order to unlock a move that's different depending on the effects, the specific combination we saw was probably what led to the moonslash) and the charge-up iai move. That's probably an OGCD ability and it probably functions like Dragoon's jump in that it's animation locked, but instead the animation lock is the charge time.

So look forward to Samurai dying to AOEs to use that.

 

[Kenai]

AST is incredibly broken from an endgame perspective. WAR is broken from a general utility perspective, but AST is singlehandedly destroying any delusions of legitimacy in trying to excel at endgame. Getting fed a good run of cards from an AST should not catapult me from average performance to top 5% of my job, that's just incredibly silly. The problem is that a lot of their current reason to be in endgame raid groups is essentially that Balance is broken and nothing hits hard enough to require WHM throughput; they'd need to nerf Balance while simultaneously figuring out how to bolster AST too functionally compete with both WHM and SCH in their jobs which is what they failed to do in HW.

Which is why I'm cool with no new healer; the AST challenge is going to be interesting to watch them try to tackle.

You're right about this and more. Balance os so good that pulling anything else is considered really bad, and that's no bueno. AST has been either under-tuned or over-tuned for most of the expansion for one reason or another and it's been a shame. Right now, how productive my raid nights go are almost entirely decided by how many Balances I get. It's too good as-is.

However, I also feel SCH needs to be looked at too though, in relation to the other healers if nothing else. If AST is properly adjusted so that whether you pick WHM or AST actually up to personal preference, SCH will still have an all but guaranteed raid spot for cutting edge content just like now. It's been this way for the entire expansion, too. SCH's one real weakness (AOE burst healing) was totally removed in HW, and now they have no real weaknesses in raid content. Right now, their raiding spot is every bit as "safe" as a WAR's.

With no new tank or healers class to "compete" for those spots, SE needs to sit down and go over what strengths and weaknesses they want each healer and tank to have, design them as such, and then make sure those strengths and weaknesses actually show up in the game (and matter). There is no better time for this that an expansion launch, since all of them will be getting new skills to mess with. No PTR is hurting them I think, but it is what it is.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I had an idea a long while ago that maybe they could tie tank damage to their defensive CDs. Make heavy tank damage more frequent but give CDs with lower cooldowns that have other effects where they give you some form of added damage or new moves if you use them properly to mitigate large amounts of damage. So using tank CDs poorly or not at all = low damage while using tank CDs properly = max damage.

Don't know how that would work for the OT position though.

It's too early to say samurai feels slow when we saw like what, 4-5 actions?

The probably mudra-like slashes (perform in order to unlock a move that's different depending on the effects, the specific combination we saw was probably what led to the moonslash) and the charge-up iai move. That's probably an OGCD ability and it probably functions like Dragoon's jump in that it's animation locked, but instead the animation lock is the charge time.

So look forward to Samurai dying to AOEs to use that.

That seems cool.

One thing I want them to take from Samurai and apply to some other jobs is the sheath/scabbard thing.

The PLD Garo sword has a sheath when it's not drawn and it disappears when you draw it. So it would be cool if some PLD/DRK/whatever weapons had sheathes too.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Having also just come (back) from playing some WoW, that was also a DPS-centric meta? It just didn't matter because tanking and healing involved more actual time dedicated to them that getting to DPS was a luxury. XIV is very spiky so you have a lot of time with fuck all to do.

Personally, I'd shuffle more skills behind the tank stance so you're tied to it when actively tanking. To compensate, more reactive things when actively tanking to make up for the flat damage loss. Meanwhile, OT stance has more responsibility in our relevant tank debuffs as well as the base higher damage. Then we can start worrying about more maintenance damage on the tanks and less just big busters.

This isn't quite true? They do less damage but they're also objectively the worst tank when it comes to the fights as they're designed: Their cooldowns all sync the worst with the fights. In the super fast kills with no padding, PLD will actually do pretty okay vs DRK when it comes to damage output. They're just going to be worse at actually taking damage AND worse at helping raid wide damage (unless you have a MNK but then you're also lowering rDPS anyway or going triple melee) as well as worse utility provided in things like ranged AoE pulling, AoE damage, mobility, etc.

I was really hoping for SAM as a tank if only as being able to go "Okay, they have a plan for WAR having OT on lock!" At this point, I'm left just going I hope they're completely overhauling existing systems instead of just bandaid fixes like VIT over STR as our primary stat.

Yeah, my WoW data is dated (Wrath was my last expansion).

I like the idea of having tank stances the focus for actual tanking, so if that requires locking skills be behind it I'm happy. I still believe that unless the model moves to more sustained damage over the course of an encounter, we'll still see a preference for damage stances and occasional tank swaps or switches into tank stances to overcome a tank buster.

Samurai tank would have made perfect sense to me from a parity standpoint if they were put into an OT design. The goal now has to be for all three tanks to bring different flavors but be perfectly viable at MT/OT. People don't want warrior nerfs, but there is no way to make this work without rebalancing so they aren't the default choice every time. Nerf them or buff the others, doesn't really matter.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Looks like we're getting blitzball.

 

[Dark Schala]

Honestly, I think PLD would benefit from at least channelling Cecil Harvey a little more? I love when PLDs use Divine Veil, if I get Cover used on me, or if they Clemency at the right time. Give them a battle raise or a small heal to make them have a little more utility, maybe? I look at my PLD 60 hotbar and go "god I dunno" at some of the CDs, but I feel more at home with DRK/WAR. I don't tank, though, so... haha.

I'm all for min/maxing stuff but I really do draw the line at purposefully AST/AST for card stacking (same for MCH/MCH Hypercharge, BRD/BRD Foe, etc.) as it feels really ... artificial and game-y at that point? I say as hoping for good card RNG runs and so on but yeah. The doubling-tripling up on damage buffs to game things is a pretty shitty part of the game currently.

It really is pretty poop. I'm all for "play what you want as long as you do it well", but this concept of doubling up is kind of silly.

It's too early to say samurai feels slow when we saw like what, 4-5 actions?

The probably mudra-like slashes (perform in order to unlock a move that's different depending on the effects, the specific combination we saw was probably what led to the moonslash) and the charge-up iai move. That's probably an OGCD ability and it probably functions like Dragoon's jump in that it's animation locked, but instead the animation lock is the charge time.

So look forward to Samurai dying to AOEs to use that.

I'll let every Samurai I see die if they macro fucking ryujin no ken wo kurae to everything they do.

I only said what I said because I think when I saw Ninja's actions, it cemented that I'd play FF14 at some point since that type of speed was what I wanted. My first 50 was Ninja and I ended up, after a year, really enjoying monk when I learned how to GL3 well.

But yeah, the video they showed for Samurai wasn't super-impressive. To be fair, though, I was feeling disappointed at the time. If anything, I kinda feel like it's going to be like Dragoon too? We'll see, I guess.

 

[studyguy]

PLD as it stands is gated by some fucking weird issue ignoring the fact that we hit like wet noodles.

Shield Swipe which used to help us with TP is now off GCD but requires we block a physical attack (if they exist at all in the fight) before using it. On PvE Pacification does shit all vs DRK Reprisal giving mitigation for trying to draw comparisons on similar skills.

Clemency requires a cast time, which as an MT is fucking laughable as a shitload of attacks during savage will just tell you to fuck off and interrupt the cast.

Divine Veil for utility requires a heal that depends on another job wasting time (and MP on you if you're capped) or you being able to get an uninterrupted cast through.

Rage of Halone's debuff is absolutely worthless compared to DRK's INT down or WAR's Slash Debuff/Flat Mitigation.

Cover is a joke as the current mechanics exist. Hell even 1.18 with the PLD AF equipped we AT LEAST got MP back for taking massive swaths of damage. We don't even get that now.

This coupled with the fact that both DRK and PLD can get TP starved vs WAR just blasting away forever is the strangest shit.



SAM just looks like a NIN with a katana right now for me. If you have to sit still for a cast animation then I guess they can look forward to the same issues DRG has when they get locked in a jump and eat something I guess.

 

[Kintaro]

I'm not sure I can jive with Yoshi's thinking regarding tanks and healers who stayed leveling tanks and healers. Well, that happened because...they got a new tank and a new healer!

Now, we have two DPS coming. Does he not expect a lot of those tanks and healers switching to the new hotness? I'm not really sure I follow his conclusion on the data. Yeah tanks kept tanking and healers kept healing. They had new hotness to play and discover. Now? Not to much.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

PLD as it stands is gated by some fucking weird issue ignoring the fact that we hit like wet noodles.

Shield Swipe which used to help us with TP is now off GCD but requires we block a physical attack (if they exist at all in the fight) before using it. On PvE Pacification does shit all vs DRK Reprisal giving mitigation for trying to draw comparisons on similar skills.

Clemency requires a cast time, which as an MT is fucking laughable as a shitload of attacks during savage will just tell you to fuck off and interrupt the cast.

Divine Veil for utility requires a heal that depends on another job wasting time (and MP on you if you're capped) or you being able to get an uninterrupted cast through.

Rage of Halone's debuff is absolutely worthless compared to DRK's INT down or WAR's Slash Debuff/Flat Mitigation.

This coupled with the fact that both DRK and PLD can get TP starved vs WAR just blasting away forever is the strangest shit.

Reprisal also has the cooler animation. Stabbing your enemy then ripping it out, it's a really satisfying move.

Shield Swipe's animation is really weird, because you don't even hit them with your shield. You kind of just jump pointing your sword in the air, it looks more like you're celebrating then attacking the enemy.

Do you know how much damage is prevented if Delirium and Reprisal debuffs are both active?

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm not sure I can jive with Yoshi's thinking regarding tanks and healers who stayed leveling tanks and healers. Well, that happened because...they got a new tank and a new healer!

Now, we have two DPS coming. Does he not expect a lot of those tanks and healers switching to the new hotness? I'm not really sure I follow his conclusion on the data. Yeah tanks kept tanking and healers kept healing. They had new hotness to play and discover. Now? Not to much.

Jesus, you act like people move on from old jobs to new jobs and then the old jobs cease to exist. FFXI lived and thrived with only two tank jobs for years and years and the players who played said tank jobs enjoyed playing them despite new DPS jobs being added.

 

[scy]

Yeah, my WoW data is dated (Wrath was my last expansion).

For what it's worth, it's also far closer to optional there due to their main roles requiring more attention, though at the same time also with the chance of it trickling down as the min/max norm. It's interesting to see how they differ since that game design has actual tanking / healer gameplay loops beyond push button receive role

I like the idea of having tank stances the focus for actual tanking, so if that requires locking skills be behind it I'm happy. I still believe that unless the model moves to more sustained damage over the course of an encounter, we'll still see a preference for damage stances and occasional tank swaps or switches into tank stances to overcome a tank buster.

Ideally, I'd like the shift of "max DPS tank" to be on the tank that's actively tanking? So coupling that with needing to tank swap because of cooldowns being used up too fast leads to min/maxing each tank's uptime as the MT and min/maxing their damage output. So PLD and DRK getting more power in their off-block/parry mechanics and I think WAR should get the Vengeance damage counter moved over to Inner Beast? Things like that, making "I want to max DPS == I need to be tanking" mentality.

Of course, that design would also make 24 mans the literally worst thing in the world as every e-peen tank chain Provokes off of each other but then again they already do that.

Honestly, I think PLD would benefit from at least channelling Cecil Harvey a little more? I love when PLDs use Divine Veil, if I get Cover used on me, or if they Clemency at the right time. Give them a battle raise or a small heal to make them have a little more utility, maybe? I look at my PLD 60 hotbar and go "god I dunno" at some of the CDs, but I feel more at home with DRK/WAR. I don't tank, though, so... haha.

In every possible way, I am still legitimately confused at PLD not having a gameplay loop involving Sheltron -> oGCD Clemency (+ Divine Veil for big buster / AoE moments) -> Shield Swipe. Like ... the whole thing seems designed as they should in theory have interplay at least with Sheltron's minor MP restore and PLD having no use for their MP otherwise than Clemency. But they can't use Clemency, really, so it's basically just something that's there? It's really weird.

 

[Kintaro]

Jesus, you act like people move on from old jobs to new jobs and then the old jobs cease to exist. FFXI lived and thrived with only two tank jobs for years and years and the players who played said tank jobs enjoyed playing them despite new DPS jobs being added.

This isn't FFXI. Not to mention that game was super, duper, DUPER Flavor of the month/year. It was guilty of old jobs (plenty of them) being left in the dust to some new hotness. Tanks included. Hell, Ninjas were MADE into tanks by the player base because they were better than the other two at doing so for a good amount of time.

I'm not saying people will just not tank anymore. I'm saying I disagree with his conclusion. In the end, it may all even out. It may not. Hell, in the past they have to give tanks some goodies just to keep tanking if you remember. There have been some issues in the past. I think it'll happen again, at least for the first couple of months.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Of course, that design would also make 24 mans the literally worst thing in the world as every e-peen tank chain Provokes off of each other but then again they already do that.

How about giving Provoke the Virus treatment so if you voke the boss can't be voked back for X seconds?

 

[Kenai]

I'm not sure I can jive with Yoshi's thinking regarding tanks and healers who stayed leveling tanks and healers. Well, that happened because...they got a new tank and a new healer!

Now, we have two DPS coming. Does he not expect a lot of those tanks and healers switching to the new hotness? I'm not really sure I follow his conclusion on the data. Yeah tanks kept tanking and healers kept healing. They had new hotness to play and discover. Now? Not to much.

As I said while eating crow early this morning, I think they are going to regret releasing two new popular DPS jobs with no new tanks, new healers, or new content system in place to offset it. PotD and FATEs are just fine for alts, but it's never been about just the exp. They lock tons of MSQ-related content behind your first clears of a lot of dungeons and 8 mans in DF, and those queues are going to be some huge bottlenecks for several weeks after launch, if not longer.

I'm honestly still a bit stupefied at the decision, unless they have some huge gamepaly/philosophy change coming that we don't know about regarding how content and features are unlocked in-game progress is made, but there's been no information about anything like that so far.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Oh wow we're getting blitzball from FFX

 

[Tragicomedy]

Nova Crystallis‏ @Nova_Crystallis
Battle system revamp concentrates on two factors: 1. bringing up the bottom for the gap between casual DPS and very skilled DPS gamers. 2. improvement in control: Cutting unused skills and combining others #FFXIV

Nova Crystallis‏ @Nova_Crystallis
There will also be job specific UIs to improve e.g. buff icon overview. More details this spring #FFXIV

Okay then.

 

[Stone Ocean]

RIP Stone 2, Stone 3, Thunder 2, Thunder 3, Phlebotomize, ToD

 

[Glendemonium]

Oh wow we're getting blitzball from FFX

I'll accept this, as long as we get to fight a primal named Sin.

 

[iammeiam]

So the new news on battle system changes is... them repeating what they said in October?

neat.

 

[scy]

"Battle system changes will be that we're changing the battle system." ;_;

How about giving Provoke the Virus treatment so if you voke the boss can't be voked back for X seconds?

Think of the troll power!

As I said while eating crow early this morning, I think they are going to regret releasing two new popular DPS jobs with no new tanks, new healers, or new content system in place to offset it. PotD and FATEs are just fine for alts, but it's never been about just the exp. They lock tons of MSQ-related content behind your first clears of a lot of dungeons and 8 mans in DF, and those queues are going to be some huge bottlenecks for several weeks after launch, if not longer.

I'm honestly still a bit stupefied at the decision, unless they have some huge gamepaly/philosophy change coming that we don't know about regarding how content and features are unlocked in-game progress is made, but there's been no information about anything like that so far.

I think it's not as big of an issue as is being made out of since people will be leveling mains first and then going back. First-timer priority and LLDR helps cover a lot of gaps and in every MMO ever, numbers always trend to reflect new additions of classes never really changes the spread of tanks-healers-DPS(-supports) in the longterm; you see bumps and small trends but generally speaking people stick to roles more than what anecdotal evidence would indicate in this thread.

The worst period will probably be initial launch for auto-RDM/SAM mains and the period after everyone finishes their first 70. And a lot of it simply goes away if LLDR is adjusted to being slightly more valuable beyond one time per day.

 

[ebil]

Both our PLD and WAR remained PLD and WAR going from 2.0 to 3.0. They have played DRK or are playing it when it's a necessity in raids but they've been sticking with what they like. The only reason one of them will be switching in 4.0 is because I'm done with healing in general (and this is because I'm tired of the healing playstyle in this game in general) and want to go back to DPS roles. They're incredibly dedicated.

I've mained all 3 healers at one point or another during the expansion. Hell, my whole group comp remained the exact same from 2.5 to 3.5 aside from our BRD switching to MCH because he hated 3.0 BRD. Most of the people I know ingame have one or two preferred jobs and will stick to them regardless of any perceived meta.

Saying that people only keep playing a tank or a healer because new jobs for their role are being added is frankly silly. It's not like we know they're completely leaving them to rot. They're extremely likely to get cool new moves.

 

[Kenai]

So the worse DPS will still be bad, just not as bad? I think I heard that mentioned before.

That's fine with me. Job specific UIs sound pretty interesting too. I miss all the class specific mods from WoW like Totemtimer.

I think it's not as big of an issue as is being made out of since people will be leveling mains first and then going back. First-timer priority and LLDR helps cover a lot of gaps and in every MMO ever, numbers always trend to reflect new additions of classes never really changes the spread of tanks-healers-DPS(-supports) in the longterm; you see bumps and small trends but generally speaking people stick to roles more than what anecdotal evidence would indicate in this thread.
Edit: sorry for DP

The worst period will probably be initial launch for auto-RDM/SAM mains and the period after everyone finishes their first 70. And a lot of it simply goes away if LLDR is adjusted to being slightly more valuable beyond one time per day.

It's the launch period that I'm worried about most. I want the launch to be great cause a bad one can turn a lot of people away who would otherwise have stayed, especially since there will likely be plenty of other "normal" launch problems, like Primal exploding and whatever other, less-forseen bugs that show up.

I also refuse to underestimate the appeal of those two jobs and those that will switch, even if it isn't forever. Sure the priority queue will help, but that's far less revevant at launch. Everyone will get it then. By the end of summer I'm pretty sure stuff will have settled down, but until it does...

Although since I don't have to worry about a new healer and whether or not I will like it, my real concern now is how sexy the SCH and AST 61-70 skills and AF will look. I hope the next set of AST af looks more gender neutral and SCH's less hideous.

 

[Kenai]

DP sorry.

 

[dramatis]

Nova Crystallis are tweeting a summary of this after-show presentation and there are a few nuggets of info. SE are already working on a PS4 Pro patch and they're planning a XIV version of blitzball.

I had a lolwut moment about blitzball before I remembered we can swim and go underwater in the expansion

I would love a buff that lets me spread my current stack of greased lightning to everyone near me, they get the full buff till it wears off.

This sounds kind of filthy to be honest

 

[scy]

It's the launch period that I'm worried about most. I want the launch to be great cause a bad one can turn a lot of people away who would otherwise have stayed, especially since there will likely be plenty of other "normal" launch problems, like Primal exploding and whatever other, less-forseen bugs that show up.

Well, when I say launch period here I mean the people who go screw leveling my old main, going to SAM/RDM first! They'll probably be in the weirdest spot because there will be fewer people doing 50-60 anything period but they'll also be the ones who most likely will be ready to PotD to 60 to get to new content. I think the amount of new players who will be 50 at Stormsblood launch for RDM/SAM AND are doing Heavensward content will be relatively small unless they do the jump potion thing. These people will definitely have a shitty experience if that's a thing.

I also refuse to underestimate the appeal of those two jobs and those that will switch, even if it isn't forever. Sure the priority queue will help, but that's far less revevant at launch. Everyone will get it then. By the end of summer I'm pretty sure stuff will have settled down, but until it does...

It's mostly I think it's overblown how many tanks / healers will be gone because leveling RDM/SAM. It'll be far more likely you'll only ever see RDM/SAM as DPS. Queue times will be awful in general still because DPS outnumber tanks + healers and they'll definitely see worse times for a bit but the times will be mostly existing population discrepancies and not due to a RDM/SAM inspired exodus.

For what it's worth, I give a 50% chance that I go "wtf queues" even I get a queue carry whenever I level RDM/SAM.

 

[Pachimari]

Nova Crystallis are tweeting a summary of this after-show presentation and there are a few nuggets of info. SE are already working on a PS4 Pro patch and they're planning a XIV version of blitzball.

Hnnggghhhhh!

 

[studyguy]

This is it Grand Company Platoon... We've trained you all the way up to 60, you've fought demons and saved the city but now you face your biggest challenge.

Spoiler

Being my unresponsive blitzball team.

James from a Magaznie: With the addition of swimming, do you see Blitzball in the future of FFXIV?
Yoshida: To be honest, yes we have plans, maybe. The thing is, we've run into a few problems, the opinion that if we released it as it was in FFX, players might lose interest in it quickly. Then on the team we had the idea of OK because we're an MMO, lets make something that fits with the style of game we have. However if we do that, then we're going away from the Blitzball people know and expect. We're trying to find a good mix of both sides. Because we have swimming and diving, its natural to get that in the game.

 

[Pachimari]

So when are we getting our Fan Festival in-game items? After the event ends in Germany?

And if I've done the Hall of the Novice as an Archer, I can't do it as a Pugilist or Lancer as well? I take it it takes me through what it means to be a tank, healer and dps rather than through each job.