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[Zedark]

This is not a "shrug" post, but i'm honestly wondering. What exactly does FFXV bring to the table that would not be possible on Switch, other than effects, lighting, texture resolution etc... considering how Xenoblade CX ran and looked on WiiU, knowing that the Switch is 3x more powerful. Would it be impossible to scale FFXV back to that level of visual fidelity?

Spoiler

PS: also, how cool would it be if the game transformed to the mobile version in portable mode, lol.

The problem, which Tabata talked quite a bit about before the original launch of the PS4/XB1 versions, is that the engine they are using, the Luminous Pro engine, scales badly to lower-spec hardware. The game ran beautifully on high-end PC dev environments, but they had big issues porting the game down to PS4 and XB1, such that in the end PS4 has a dynamic res between 900p and 1080p and XB1 has 720p-900p dynamic res. Scaling down further to Switch will be even harder. Of course, they have had a year to improve the engine and its scalability a bit, and the PC version might mean scaling has been worked out better (since Nvidia helped with that version, it makes sense that they are focusing on scalability, and maybe they are also enrolled in the dev of the Switch version).

Oh cool so they were initially hinting the full version. I also forgot about the Virtuos port rumour, are the pieces finally coming together?

It also wouldn't be out of the blue to think NVIDIA might be helping with the port as well.

So I guess ultimately the pocket edition will be a last ditch effort if they can't get it to run.

I doubt the bolded will happen personally, since in my mind they wouldn't hint at FFXV coming to Switch and then discount the idea of the pocket edition coming if they weren't sure they could get the full version working on the Switch.

 

[Cartho]

Considering how the PC version trailer showed off the game using Nvidia's GPU features, it would be crazy if NVidia was helping SE with porting the game to the Switch?

Nvidia ninjas / engineers working magic? Possible I suppose. I've got serious doubts about whether it would be possible though. I mean the guy who mentioned XBCX on Wii U has a point - if they could scale back FFXV to that level then it might be possible but the question really is how scaleable the Luminous engine is. A good engine like UE 4 is extremely scaleable but I'd heard Luminous was a bit of a technical mess.

Would it even be possible to port the whole of FFXV to UE4? I've heard that mentioned but it seems like it would be an obscene amount of work just to get it working on Switch...

***EDIT***
Just read the above post, cheers

 

[Kissenkopf]

Well they could bring the game to switch when they ditch the open world and break it up in zones. They could add more tunnel to the game to cover the loading times between zones.

 

[Zedark]

Well they could bring the game to switch when they ditch the open world and break it up in zones. They could add more tunnel to the game to cover the loading times between zones.

I think out of all the road blocks that could occur, loading times are not really the big issue.

 

[ozfunghi]

Well that's the issue. It's easy enough to say "yeah, they can just scale back effects, lighting, textures, resolution and so on", which is a hell of a lot to cut down on especially when hardware significantly more powerful than the Switch already struggles to run the game with cut backs in all of those areas.

If you scaled back FFXV enough, sure, it'd run on the Switch. It'd probably run on the PS3 and Xbox 360 if you wanted it to, but there's a point at which many developers would deem it not worth it, especially given that this is Luminous Engine and not Unreal Engine 4. Porting high fidelity games, especially to significantly less powerful hardware is a tougher job than a lot of people here seem to think.

Sure, but this isn't what i meant. What exactly makes the game so difficult to run on weaker (Switch) hardware other than the "usual" superior graphics. Personally, i'd be perfectly fine if it ended up looking like XCX and ran smoothly. I'd rather have that than looking a bit better (as good as XBO) but a 18fps.

Also i didn't think about what engine they used. I guess had they used UE4, it would have been easier.

The problem, which Tabata talked quite a bit about before the original launch of the PS4/XB1 versions, is that the engine they are using, the Luminous Pro engine, scales badly to lower-spec hardware. The game ran beautifully on high-end PC dev environments, but they had big issues porting the game down to PS4 and XB1, such that in the end PS4 has a dynamic res between 900p and 1080p and XB1 has 720p-900p dynamic res. Scaling down further to Switch will be even harder. Of course, they have had a year to improve the engine and its scalability a bit, and the PC version might mean scaling has been worked out better (since Nvidia helped with that version, it makes sense that they are focusing on scalability, and maybe they are also enrolled in the dev of the Switch version).

Ah, ok. Thanks. That basically answers my question. So it's an engine problem first and foremost.

 

[FinalAres]

The problem, which Tabata talked quite a bit about before the original launch of the PS4/XB1 versions, is that the engine they are using, the Luminous Pro engine, scales badly to lower-spec hardware. The game ran beautifully on high-end PC dev environments, but they had big issues porting the game down to PS4 and XB1, such that in the end PS4 has a dynamic res between 900p and 1080p and XB1 has 720p-900p dynamic res. Scaling down further to Switch will be even harder. Of course, they have had a year to improve the engine and its scalability a bit, and the PC version might mean scaling has been worked out better (since Nvidia helped with that version, it makes sense that they are focusing on scalability, and maybe they are also enrolled in the dev of the Switch version).

This, specifically is why I don't think SE are done with Luminous. Sure they're using Unreal Engine for a lot of major projects now, which makes sense, but when the next generation comes around, SE have got an excellent engine more appropriate to that generation than this.

 

[Mory Dunz]

With SoM2 skipping the platform, maybe SE isn't really fully on board on the system. IDK.

Is that Secret of maNA 2?


...that's already on switch.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

It will be a completely remade edition using the final fantasy 12 engine
(I'd prefer that anyway)

 

[Lonely1]

Is that Secret of maNA 2?


...that's already on switch.

Not the new version, and not outside Japan.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Not the new version, and not outside Japan.

What new version?

We're talking about SoM 2 aka seiken 3 if you're mixing it up

 

[Lonely1]

What new version?

We're talking about SoM 2 aka seiken 3 if you're mixing it up

Meh, you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Atheerios]

With SoM2 skipping the platform, maybe SE isn't really fully on board on the system. IDK.

Games aren't developed in 5 months.

The fact that it's on Vita means SE would have developed it on Switch if they knew how successful it was going to be.

Spoiler

Also the game looks bad, not a big loss

 

[Dragner]

I mean FFXV world was barren. With resolution adjustment and some textures tweeks to match it I dont see why switch wouldnt move XV. Nothing in XV screams top graphics outside of some scripted fights. If they can port DQXI I dont see why this dont...

 

[Zedark]

This, specifically is why I don't think SE are done with Luminous. Sure they're using Unreal Engine for a lot of major projects now, which makes sense, but when the next generation comes around, SE have got an excellent engine more appropriate to that generation than this.

Yeah, the resulting game was beautiful. The engine was a pain to create for them (and they admitted to that), but despite (or because of) that, they will want to work with it on further projects. If they indeed managed to make the Luminous Pro more scalable, then they have a powerhouse of an engine at their disposal: this, in the end, could very well be one of the big triumphs of finishing the project that is FFXV.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I mean FFXV world was barren. With resolution adjustment and some textures tweeks to match it I dont see why switch wouldnt move XV. Nothing in XV screams top graphics outside of some scripted fights. If they can port DQXI I dont see why this dont...

As mentioned above, the engine would be the big block. Dragon Quest XI, assuming a port of the PS4 version, runs on Unreal Engine 4. Something that the Switch is specifically rated for and has a fair bit of support from. The Luminous Engine meanwhile is an in-house system that is a bit of a technical mess and requires some brute forcing to work right - something the Switch naturally can't do. So a port simply wouldn't be easy, and would require SE to feel it's worth the effort.

 

[Aostia]

I mean FFXV world was barren. With resolution adjustment and some textures tweeks to match it I dont see why switch wouldnt move XV. Nothing in XV screams top graphics outside of some scripted fights. If they can port DQXI I dont see why this dont...

I know that LordKano will come at me, but we don't know which version of DQXI they are porting
But even if it is the PS4 version, as I believe, it must be noted that

It is a UE4 game, and Switch is compatible with the engine
Se is working on some unspecified technical adjustment to port it to Switch, so even if it is a UE4 game it still need some time and effort

I think that FFXV techs even not being more advanced is probably more complex

 

[Dragner]

As mentioned above, the engine would be the big block. Dragon Quest XI, assuming a port of the PS4 version, runs on Unreal Engine 4. Something that the Switch is specifically rated for and has a fair bit of support from. The Luminous Engine meanwhile is an in-house system that is a bit of a technical mess and requires some brute forcing to work right - something the Switch naturally can't do. So a port simply wouldn't be easy, and would require SE to feel it's worth the effort.

Oh yeah forgot SE and their inhouse engines. Yeah that can be a problem, I dont think they developed Luminous with switch in mind, but since switch can handle other current engines it seems is just if SE will do the effort.

 

[KingBroly]

Yeah, the resulting game was beautiful. The engine was a pain to create for them (and they admitted to that), but despite (or because of) that, they will want to work with it on further projects. If they indeed managed to make the Luminous Pro more scalable, then they have a powerhouse of an engine at their disposal: this, in the end, could very well be one of the big triumphs of finishing the project that is FFXV.

I'm pretty sure they're done with Luminous. If it was a pain to get FFXV up and running, it will be an even bigger pain to get it running on other platforms.

 

[LordKano]

I know that LordKano will come at me, but we don't know which version of DQXI they are porting
But even if it is the PS4 version, as I believe, it must be noted that

It is a UE4 game, and Switch is compatible with the engine
Se is working on some unspecified technical adjustment to port it to Switch, so even if it is a UE4 game it still need some time and effort

I think that FFXV techs even not being more advanced is probably more complex

Besides the first sentence I do agree with you though .

 

[UnNamed]

It is a Versus XIII fully restored, ported from PS360 engine to Switch: back to the original script, adult contents, young Regis, STELLA!

FFXV: World of Versus, present at E3 2018, will release in 2022.

 

[Zedark]

I'm pretty sure they're done with Luminous. If it was a pain to get FFXV up and running, it will be an even bigger pain to get it running on other platforms.

They are still working on developing the engine, so I doubt they are done with it: http://www.siliconera.com/2017/06/1...ngine-programmers-new-luminous-studio-engine/

The issue with Luminous was scalability: if they can work that out, then they have a great engine, so it might be worth the effort.

 

[iMerc]

who cares about FFXV at this point. besides, the release wasn't too far long ago that people are itching for more FFXV content; especially seeing as episode Ignis isn't even out yet.
SE are better off creating a different game set in the FFXV universe, instead.

what about a "FFXV tactics?" that would be interesting.

besides, there are other games SE could bring over.
why these idiots are talking about wanting to bring FFXV to switch, yet sit on their asses when they can already bring FFXII over, is a mystery to me.
i mean, we're talking about a ps2 remaster ffs. how hard could this be, in comparison?

on nintendo side of the pond, who's job is it to secure these kinds of projects on the platform anyway?
all i know is when iwata was in charge, nintendo secured monster hunter, they got some new i.ps via platinum, they essentially secured DQ, grabbed bayonetta 2, brought back devils third, tied the fatal frame series to nintendo platforms, and brought ninja gaiden back to the platform after decades of nothing, put an instalment of Yakuza on the wiiU, created 'nintendo directs', brought insight into internal game development with the "iwata asks" series, etc etc.

what the hell is this new president doing on this front?

 

[Lonely1]

I doubt the bolded will happen personally, since in my mind they wouldn't hint at FFXV coming to Switch and then discount the idea of the pocket edition coming if they weren't sure they could get the full version working on the Switch.

Maybe they haven't even started and don't even have much idea of what they are going to do.

 

[FinalAres]

who cares about FFXV at this point. the game would be severely compromised on the switch, most likely. besides, the release wasn't too far long ago that people are itching for more FFXV content; especially seeing as episode Ignis isn't even out yet.
SE are better off creating a different game set in the FFXV universe, instead.

what about a "FFXV tactics?" that would be interesting.

besides, there are other games SE could bring over.
why these idiots are talking about wanting to bring FFXV to switch, yet sit on their asses when they can already bring FFXII over, is a mystery to me.
i mean, we're talking about a ps2 remaster ffs. how hard could this be, in comparison?

on nintendo side of the pond, who's job is it to secure these kinds of projects on the platform anyway?
all i know is when iwata was in charge, nintendo secured monster hunter, they got some new i.ps via platinum, they essentially secured DQ, grabbed bayonetta 2, brought back devils third, tied the fatal frame series to nintendo platforms, and brought ninja gaiden back to the platform after decades of nothing, created 'nintendo directs', brought insight into internal gave development with the "iwata asks" series, etc etc.

what the hell is this new president doing? sitting on his ass?

That PS2 remaster only does 30 FPS on PS4 so they've obviously done enough to that game so that it would still be hard to port to a weaker platform. Although no doubt Switch could handle a game like that, FFXII specifically is probably not very GPU efficient.

 

[DeuceGamer]

I don't really understand the desire for remakes of 16-bit era games. Those games still hold up. Just port it and call it a day, the odds you'll eff something up in a remake are too high for the relatively small potential payoff.

(I would buy Chrono Trigger on Switch as long as the port was better than the mobile one)

The SNES (and largely PS1) games do hold up, but just because we get a remake doesn't mean the originals are going to disappear. I love the recent Secret of Mana remake but whether it's good, average, or bad won't negate the original one. I'll still keep my SNES copy and still play it. I will also get to play a remake and enjoy it as well (assuming it's competent).

 

[ozfunghi]

That PS2 remaster only does 30 FPS on PS4 so they've obviously done enough to that game so that it would still be hard to port to a weaker platform. Although no doubt Switch could handle a game like that, FFXII specifically is probably not very GPU efficient.

My main question would be: which is the better game?

 

[FinalAres]

This is not a "shrug" post, but i'm honestly wondering. What exactly does FFXV bring to the table that would not be possible on Switch, other than effects, lighting, texture resolution etc... considering how Xenoblade CX ran and looked on WiiU, knowing that the Switch is 3x more powerful. Would it be impossible to scale FFXV back to that level of visual fidelity?

Spoiler

PS: also, how cool would it be if the game transformed to the mobile version in portable mode, lol.

Switch may be 3x more powerful than WiiU in terms of Gigaflops. But PS4 is over 4x as powerful as Switch by that same metric. Not that that is the whole story, or even that important on its own. But it is some inidication of how far Switch is from the current generation of platforms.

My main question would be: which is the better game?

XII or XV? XII by a long shot, but both are good.

 

[ozfunghi]

Switch may be 3x more powerful than WiiU in terms of Gigaflops. But PS4 is over 4x as powerful as Switch by that same metric. Not that that is the whole story, or even that important on its own. But it is some inidication of how far Switch is from the current generation of platforms.

If you only count the flops, sure. But the Switch is just as big a leap over WiiU as PS4 over Switch in my book. Not only counting flops, but also taking into account memory, the age of the GPU tech and features, FP16 capabilities, CPU... But that wasn't really my point. My point was (before people pointed out the problem with the FFXV engine) that if WiiU can run a game like XCX, that Switch should be able to run FFXV even if needed to be dialed down a bit. Obviously there is a graphical gap between XCX on one hand and FFXV on the other, but to me it doesn't strike me as any bigger than the versions of Splinter Cell on the Xbox on one hand, and the PS2 versions on the other. The Xbox was also maybe 3x more powerful than the PS2, and yet the PS2 got every multiplat that generation as well.

XII or XV? XII by a long shot, but both are good.

Ok, thanks. Then i hope we'll get XII, if not both.

 

[True Fire]

I'm pretty sure they're done with Luminous. If it was a pain to get FFXV up and running, it will be an even bigger pain to get it running on other platforms.

I guarantee Final Fantasy XVI will be on Luminous. XV PC is a partnership with Nvidia for next gen physics. They're not going to end that here.

They're experimenting with destructible environments, and the Assassin's Creed collab is really a big experiment for interactive environments—climbing walls and stuff, like BoTW. Luminous is getting better and better with each DLC.

Spoiler

And they still need to turn Agni's Philosophy into a video game.

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

Spoiler

And they still need to turn Agni's Philosophy into a video game.

this is actually what I am hoping for since first shown.

 

[Lonely1]

I guarantee Final Fantasy XVI will be on Luminous. XV PC is a partnership with Nvidia for next gen physics. They're not going to end that here.

They're experimenting with destructible environments, and the Assassin's Creed collab is really a big experiment for interactive environments—climbing walls and stuff, like BoTW. Luminous is getting better and better with each DLC.

Spoiler

And they still need to turn Agni's Philosophy into a video game.

But Nvidia is not involved with the Ps4/XB1 and, presumably, their successors. There's only one console maker working with Nvidia atm.

 

[Skittzo0413]

It seems from this interview with IGN that Tabata and Square aren't planning on bringing the pocket edition to Switch yet. That would suggest they are in fact talking about the full game for Switch.

Interesting, but this wouldn't necessarily contradict what Duckroll had heard, which is they were using the pocket version as a base and scaling up. But at least this suggests pretty clearly that it won't be the straight pocket version.

 

[ozfunghi]

Interesting, but this wouldn't necessarily contradict what Duckroll had heard, which is they were using the pocket version as a base and scaling up. But at least this suggests pretty clearly that it won't be the straight pocket version.

Why would they even consider the pocket version if the only other version was based on the pocket version and even remotely resembles it?

 

[lestar]

I bet for an X1 optimized version made by nvidia

 

[Various Artists]

I just don't think that FFXV ports from PS4/XBox/PC makes any fiscal sense. The amount of time and effort to optimize it for Switches less powerful hardware and then even more less powerful mobile hardware for the return on investment isn't there. It makes far more sense to take what they are creating for the mobile platforms that will run easily in both configurations on the switch, will fit on the cart easily and sell it once all the episodes are complete and maybe with some enhanced effects. People getting their hopes up for the current Console version are going to be disappointed. The engine that it is running on is difficult and frankly though would never be admitted, bad. There is no way they are going to spend all the time and resources to try and get it to work on Switch hardware for one game when they can just port over the mobile game with no effort. Sorry.

 

[ksamedi]

I just don't think that FFXV ports from PS4/XBox/PC makes any fiscal sense. The amount of time and effort to optimize it for Switches less powerful hardware and then even more less powerful mobile hardware for the return on investment isn't there. It makes far more sense to take what they are creating for the mobile platforms that will run easily in both configurations on the switch, will fit on the cart easily and sell it once all the episodes are complete and maybe with some enhanced effects. People getting their hopes up for the current Console version are going to be disappointed. The engine that it is running on is difficult and frankly though would never be admitted, bad. There is no way they are going to spend all the time and resources to try and get it to work on Switch hardware for one game when they can just port over the mobile game with no effort. Sorry.

Why do you think it will be done for only one game? Switch is dominating the Japanese market. It clearly has a healthy future. Making scalable engines moving forward is the right way to go.

 

[Zedark]

Interesting, but this wouldn't necessarily contradict what Duckroll had heard, which is they were using the pocket version as a base and scaling up. But at least this suggests pretty clearly that it won't be the straight pocket version.

Hmm, I must have missed that. Can you link me to Duckroll's comments?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

XV is every bit as graphically impressive as witcher 3 on consoles and it runs better, if the engine were bad that wouldnt be possible.

 

[z0m3le]

I just don't think that FFXV ports from PS4/XBox/PC makes any fiscal sense. The amount of time and effort to optimize it for Switches less powerful hardware and then even more less powerful mobile hardware for the return on investment isn't there. It makes far more sense to take what they are creating for the mobile platforms that will run easily in both configurations on the switch, will fit on the cart easily and sell it once all the episodes are complete and maybe with some enhanced effects. People getting their hopes up for the current Console version are going to be disappointed. The engine that it is running on is difficult and frankly though would never be admitted, bad. There is no way they are going to spend all the time and resources to try and get it to work on Switch hardware for one game when they can just port over the mobile game with no effort. Sorry.

A low draw distance, lower quality shaders and some reduction to detail would cost a lot less than a new game.

Why do you think it will be done for only one game? Switch is dominating the Japanese market. It clearly has a healthy future. Making scalable engines moving forward is the right way to go.

Well Square Enix has moved on to UE4 for the most part, so I'm not sure they will be using this engine going forward.

 

[Fiendcode]

UE4 doesnt transform the Switch into an Xbox One.

No but unlike Luminous at least it actually runs on Switch.

Eh the Switch will always be limited by game carts

In some ways yes (cost) but in others no (capacity).

 

[Keinning]

A low draw distance, lower quality shaders and some reduction to detail would cost a lot less than a new game.

That's what they had to do to get the game running on X1. And it still doesnt run that good.

Now imagine reducing even further upon this already gimped version. And take undocked into consideration.

 

[ozfunghi]

Hmm, I must have missed that. Can you link me to Duckroll's comments?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246693160&postcount=303

 

[Shizuka]

As I know the Vita would never run the game, I wouldn't be against picking the game up for the Switch.

 

[ozfunghi]

By the way, what engine is the pocket version running on?

 

[Lonely1]

By the way, what engine is the pocket version running on?

Not known, but I bet its Unity.

As I know the Vita would never run the game, I wouldn't be against picking the game up for the Switch.

The Vita could probably run the Mobile version.

 

[ozfunghi]

Not known, but I bet its Unity.

Right, like Setsuna and that upcoming Sphear something.

 

[Various Artists]

Why do you think it will be done for only one game? Switch is dominating the Japanese market. It clearly has a healthy future. Making scalable engines moving forward is the right way to go.

Because I think it is highly likely that Square will be using Unreal Engine more than the FF15 engine because of its ease of use and portability. Thinking that getting this engine to work across less powerful hardware is akin to just lowering sliders like on PC is not how it works. The white engine and luminous engines were mistakes. They were sunk costs that Square had to use to showcase for a game but has been proven to make development overly long and complex. Sure the games look nice and I like the way 15 played regardless of story but there is a reason games like KH has moved to Unreal. Efficiency.

 

[Various Artists]

A low draw distance, lower quality shaders and some reduction to detail would cost a lot less than a new game.



Well Square Enix has moved on to UE4 for the most part, so I'm not sure they will be using this engine going forward.

They wouldn't be making a new game though, they would be porting the already announced mobile version.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

As mentioned above, the engine would be the big block. Dragon Quest XI, assuming a port of the PS4 version, runs on Unreal Engine 4. Something that the Switch is specifically rated for and has a fair bit of support from. The Luminous Engine meanwhile is an in-house system that is a bit of a technical mess and requires some brute forcing to work right - something the Switch naturally can't do. So a port simply wouldn't be easy, and would require SE to feel it's worth the effort.

If they want to use the engine again they could feel like it's worth the effort. And also we don't know how scalable the engine is just now. FF 15 was rushed to the end, could be that the engine got scolded for a rushed game

Also FF 15 is runnig just fine now on PS4. DQ 11 is demanding as well running in 900p/30fps, around the same as FF 15 on PS4.

It's all about effort, personally i don't really need the same game again, but if they have to port the engine anyway, they can do it and it would be interesting to see how the small Switch handles such ports when a dev really tries.

But lets wait, it could be a spinnoff or even a port of the mobile piece of .....

 

[Koozek]

Final Fantasy XV Director Clarifies Nintendo Switch Tease; Team Looking into the Platform:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1427648