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[Speevy]

No it's not. Gaming is my passion. I will disect your game piece by piece to see what I like about it as I play.

Sounds fun. :/ Though I should tell you I've played over 200 current gen. games, so I'm very much with you in wanting to play everything. There are many games that I could have spent my money on, and I'm satisified that I chose the right one.

On with the vendetta thread I guess.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

Is this your FINAL JUDGMENT?!!!!1111111

 

[elostyle]

From my experience with the game, himuro is basically spot on on all points. Especially the last bit about the similarity to Wii/DS concepts rings true. The hypocricy is particulary glaring for me because barely any touch screen control methods have ever feeled as gimmicky as okami's brush after a while. It is still really admirably but circleling basically everything you come accross gets old really fast.
Given how evenly everything you are supposed to circle is spaced out on the maps, it can create a pretty tiring rythm of tedium.

Still, hating it remains very hard considering the great style and soul, so I shall continue to love/hate my way through it similar to how I did with SotC.

 

[MiamiWesker]

On your complaints you are absolutly right. In fact I wrote about those same things on another board today. The difference between you and me though is how much weight you put on those "flaws". I for one am one that judges a game on the experience as a whole, the bottom line is that I am having fun, more fun than any game I have played this year thus far, regardless of its flaws. I think the good vastly outweighs the bad in this game.

Coming from someone that was able to look past all the big flaws in Yakuza, I really can't believe you feel this way about Okami. But to each his own.

 

[Unison]

Himuro, great original post.... you explain exactly what's wrong with Okami without completely overlooking its virtues.

 

[SnakeXs]

Looks like you're doing the same thing. Move along.

Alright, fine. Here goes. Total counter mode. For the last time. I mean, again, most of these are opnions so there's nothing solid that will come out of it, but whatever.

Game mechanics: Immature and gimmicky? I'm sorry, but creating a new way to do things is not gimmicky. In the context of the title, it works. Very well, even. Using the Celestial Brush as a tool is wonderful. It's not something all games should use, but here it's used well. It has an advantage over simply selecting tools, both in game mechanics, and in, again, being a part of the painting we call Okami.

Easy. Sure, agreed, but this is one of those "Himuro's bitter so a small thing is blown up" type things. I love Wind Waker. Wind Waker was ****ing easy. I love Okami. Okami is easy. Okami is harder than Wind Waker. What's the problem?

I'm sorry for the Zelda comments, but seeing as they're so close it needs to be done. Puzzles and tools? How is using a bomb to blow something up in Zelda any better than drawing a bomb to blow something up? They both accomplish a certain goal. They both work well. It's a game design, and one that works.

Again, all the boring comments and "gets old fast" can't be commented on. He dislikes them, fine. I, and others, enjoy them. Using the tools is limited, but there's still wiggle room and places for player creativity. Little things bring a smile to my face. Non-essentials add a layer of charm that I adored.

Issun. Yes he talks a lot. I found him charming, but annoying at times. Again, his interfering is hardly as bad as Hiimu says, especially past the early game. He doesn't interupt boss fights, aside from a time or two. Even the very first awesome epic boss, does he say a word? No. Again, blow WAY out of proportion.

On combat and boss fights. Himuro's simply wrong on this point. While I will concede that Zelda generally has better, more diverse puzzles and dungeons, Okami makes it up with combat. How he can bash this combat and not any other Adventure g ame (you know the one) is baffling. Okami's combat is fast paced, exciting, with good weapon variety, tons of actually useful moves, and tons of enemy diversity. I'm not sure what else one could want. Maybe Himuro just Streets of Rage'd it up and attacked everything blindly, but the game has a ton of 100% useful combat techniques. The weapons are all vastly different, most of the skills you get are useful, and the act of juggling 2-3 enemies, their weak spots, and weaknesses, and your brush skills, is exciting. A lot happens at once, at a very fast pace. Dodging or countering an attack, exploiting a black and white'd enemies weakness, killing him, then finishing off with whatever works against them for bonus fangs is, too me, fun. On top of that, 99% of battle sare selective. You CAN avoid them all if you please.

Sidequests, another mole hill opinion turned mountain. Again, I find them fun. I find helping the characters in the game, exploring, finding little secrets, even feeding the animals and making the world Okami rules over a better place exciting. Many of the rewards are a let down, yes, but I was never a "motivated by the ends" type of player. The road is my reward. And, about numbers, I get the distinct feeling Himuro didn't TRY to find side quests, as I was never at a loss for something to do.

Okami isn't perfect. It doesn't fill all of Zelda's shoes. It does some things *gasp* better, some things that Zelda doesn't ever TRY to be on purpose, and Zelda in turns 1ups it in many respects. The point is they're not mutually exclusive. They each deliver something similar to an extent, yet different enough to be seen seperately.

On to the one liners. Simplistic gameplay? In comparison to what? Deeper combat than most adventure games, and less complex puzzles than 1. Hmm.
Gimmicky game mechanics. Again, an opinion. Most feel it's unique and used well. He doesn't.
I never found text to be a problem, aside from the first little bit. Is it the most graceful way of delivering a story? Maybe not. But it works. I can see how some would complain, however, but for an RPG lover to say so, to me, shows his true feelings for the title.
Issun's help, again, blown way out of proportion.

I can't find a single other point to counter, but really, his remarks are so off that it hurts. I can stand honest, real critiques, but half of what Himu says is just funny. He's almost admittedly bitter and using that to turn anything into a huge problem for the title, while being (dare I say) hypocrtical in many respects, to other titles he admittedly loves. If you hold something to be a problem in 1 game and not another, it shows something.

No offense, Himu. You ain't a bad guy. But your impressions often times, and especially this time, are off, and baffling.

There we have it, far less eloquent, but I typed this all right now. I'm sure I missed a thing or four, but whatever.

 

[UncleGuito]

Should have been made for the DS!

-.-

 

[Dragona Akehi]

See? That's better. Thank you.

 

[UncleGuito]

It should have been, otherwise you could pick up Brain Training so you could get a grip on reading comprehension.

Heh, I wasn't quoting you. I was just paraphrasing what a lot of people from here that hate on this game think (ie. the Final thoughts of most people who refuse to accept this game)

 

[SnakeXs]

Look at how many people agree. I'm not off as you put it, I just don't enjoy it as much as you.

Where are they? Where are these people who have played Okami and think it's boring, and the brush gets old, or that the combat sucks? Who says the game mechanics are gimmicky? Who else says there's simplistic gameplay, or a lack of things to do?

Where are these people?

 

[Branduil]

I'm just guessing here, but seeing as the Gamecube didn't have a launch game that couldn't be beaten in 8 hours or less, and the Wii seems to be a march further in the "accessible" direction, the chances of us getting an exclusive Wii game at launch (or anytime close) with any sort of meat on it are just about nil.

I disagree about Zelda. I think it's a GC game with Wii functionality tacked on.

Glad to know you've played it. How many dungeons were there? Was the story cool?

 

[elostyle]

Like I said before in the other thread, too much critical analysis is the death of a good gaming experience.

Himuro is gonna be the Brecht of videogames.

 

[Error]

Where are they? Where are these people who have played Okami and think it's boring, and the brush gets old, or that the combat sucks? Who says the game mechanics are gimmicky? Who else says there's simplistic gameplay, or a lack of things to do?

Where are these people?

uh there are people who agree with him and have play the game, in this thread. I dont know what you are trying to prove there.

 

[Mifune]

Glad to know you've played it. How many dungeons were there? Was the story cool?

Snarkiness aside, the fact that it's coming out for the Cube a month later should tell you something.

 

[SnakeXs]

uh there are people who agree with him and have play the game. I dont know what you are trying to prove there.

Like I said, where are they? Where are these vast numbers of people who agree with him? Look at the numbers. For every person who agrees with Himuro and his belittling comments of Okami there's 99 who enjoy Okami, or simply don't see his complaints as valid.

My point isn't that Okami is flawless, it's simply that his complaints are his opinion. That's fine, it's his, he could call Okami the worst game ever for all I care, but claiming personal preferences, for whatever reason, to be some major game breaking and ruining issue isn't cool. Adding hypocrisy to it only makes matters worse.

 

[elostyle]

Like I said, where are they? Where are these vast numbers of people who agree with him? Look at the numbers. For every person who agrees with Himuro and his belittling comments of Okami there's 99 who enjoy Okami, or simply don't see his complaints as valid.

My point isn't that Okami is flawless, it's simply that his complaints are his opinion. That's fine, it's his, he could call Okami the worst game ever for all I care, but claiming personal preferences, for whatever reason, to be some major game breaking and ruining issue isn't cool. Adding hypocrisy to it only makes matters worse.

Why then are we talking about himuro stating his opinion and not the opinions he states? If you know what I mean.

I suppose you did that above

 

[Illuminati]

Reading the OP, if you think Issun is an annoying companion you haven't seen anything until you have played King's Quest V and have Cedric the owl as your companion.

I'm at the mountain village, but so far any of minor flaws of the game, and I do mean minor, are by far outweighed by the good points of the game. And for $40 it is pretty much a steal when I would have been willing to pay the full $50 for it. And for a game that tries to be Zelda-esk, it definitely has come closer then any other game's attempt.

 

[Error]

Like I said, where are they? Where are these vast numbers of people who agree with him? Look at the numbers. For every person who agrees with Himuro and his belittling comments of Okami there's 99 who enjoy Okami, or simply don't see his complaints as valid.

My point isn't that Okami is flawless, it's simply that his complaints are his opinion. That's fine, it's his, he could call Okami the worst game ever for all I care, but claiming personal preferences, for whatever reason, to be some major game breaking and ruining issue isn't cool. Adding hypocrisy to it only makes matters worse.

I could understand if he has said the game is horrible which he didnt, he just said the game has a lot of flaws and he back those complaints with facts. I dont see anything wrong with that. certainly much better than "OMG GOTY!!!" "Okami makes every other game dull"

 

[SnakeXs]

Why then are we talking about himuro stating his opinion and not the opinions he states? If you know what I mean.

I suppose you did that above

That was the point. It's fine to have an opinion. I said clearly that most of what he claims is opinion, with some flat out baffling comments on the side.

Because it's on a Sony console and it's the supposed Zelda killer and they don't want to buy GC's or Wii's for TP.

Here we go again about hypocrisy and personal preferences. :lol

And, obviously. Yes, only staunch Sonybots like me and Ami love Okami. I mean, hell, I'm a TOTAL Sonybot, right? And me and Ami, we both ****ing HATE Zelda, right Himu?

You like RPGs. They have more text. Text in Okami's a problem. 1

You like Zelda. Wind Waker was easy. Okami being easy is a problem. 2

You like Zelda. Zelda 's combat is not deep. Okami's is inarguably deeper. 3

Need I go on?

 

[Error]

everything has to be extreme on gaf there is no middle ground for discussion

the game is either extremely bad or extremely good. and people who feel the game is good but not great cant apparently say crap because it's then considered trolling.

hell I would love my VP:S to turned into a game discussion like this. as long as you have facts to support your argument discussion is welcome, not stupid fanboy hyperbolic posts.

You like RPGs. They have more text. Text in Okami's a problem. 1

except Okami is NOT an RPG see where you are wrong there?

You like Zelda. Wind Waker was easy. Okami being easy is a problem. 2

he didnt particularly mentioned WW just Zelda games in general and even then, WW doesnt have handholding problems. the problems with difficulty in WW was because of the quarter heart damage bullshit.

 

[FredFish]

I love games that give you freedom, allow much exploration, nonlinear, and require lots of strategy.

Sounds like you would love Romancing SaGa! Oh wait, you hated that game...nevermind.

I've only just started Okami but initial impressions I have are pretty positive. Luckily I can take the game as it is and not have tainted expectations from all the 'GOTG' hype. It may veer horribly, horribly wrong down the road but so far I'm enjoying the ride.

 

[PolyGone]

wow, interesting to read some opinions that bring to light some issues with this one, which has been very hard to come by.

I don't think it will deter me from buying the game, but it is unfortunate to hear about some the issues, like the overly talkative helper who gives away the secrets to success. Thats a pretty big turn off in this type of game...

thanks for the impressions!

 

[Kandinsky]

+ Great story, better than anything Zelda has managed to have

Was that really necessary? =/

 

[SantaC]

It's really annoying that you can't mention Okami without someone else bringing up zelda.

 

[PolyGone]

It's really annoying that you can't mention Okami without someone else bringing up zelda.

hey, if you're gonna steal, steal from the best right?

 

[elostyle]

It's really annoying that you can't mention Okami without someone else bringing up zelda.

I blame clover.

I hope nintendo picks up the moving-faster-when-running-for-longer feature in return.

 

[SantaC]

hey, if you're gonna steal, steal from the best right?

I am just not looking forward to when Zelda TP is out and everyone will chime in with Okami stuff/comparisons. It's going to be nasty.

 

[SnakeXs]

And Himu's last post proves that I'm done here. No basis. No nothing. It's not fun, it's dull, it's boring because I choose to NOT use the game's creative mechanics to my advantage and instead use as little as I can to get by. Himuro misses the point.

That's fine, but so long as people know that Himuro's complaints are out of a clear disdain for the game, and has turned tiny/non issues into massive game breaking ones, and that they're not universal problems it's cool. Like I said, enjoy whatever you enjoy, Himu. Hopefully we can hug when this is all over. I just won't trust ya next time you have wildly crazy views on a title.

I'm done, folks. Carry on. :lol

 

[Oblivion]

+ Great story, better than anything Zelda has managed to have

Oh, dear...

Since you bring it up, might I ask what constitute's a good story?

 

[CajoleJuice]

God, I hate GAF. It sucks so much enjoyment out of games I haven't even played yet. :lol

 

[Error]

why are people acting as if he say the game is horrible or something? did people read the whole OP?

 

[BluWacky]

Where are they? Where are these people who have played Okami and think it's boring, and the brush gets old, or that the combat sucks? Who says the game mechanics are gimmicky? Who else says there's simplistic gameplay, or a lack of things to do?

Where are these people?

raises hand

Bought the original Japanese version. I put my ennui with the game down to when I was playing it; I was very pressured for time, and to start with I got totally addicted to it, so thought that I was annoyed with Okami for taking up time I should have been doing other things in rather than with the game.

But.

The brush gets very old. The handholding stops towards the end (thank god), but at the beginning it's terrible; even then, it's mostly obvious what you should be doing, and it doesn't bring anything particularly exciting to the game overall. I loved the cutscenes you got after major things; bringing the land back to life was always worth the effort. But endless slashing of things (or my personal bug bear, drawing the water spouts; they never sodding registered...) gets pretty old, pretty fast.

Combat is mostly just hammering the attack button until your enemy dies, with a few brush slashes in between. Sure, you can kill them in the "proper" way to get extra currency, but it's hardly worth the effort since you don't get anything all that useful except the ability to use the whirlpools to teleport without using those stones or whatever they were.

There is a severe lack of interesting things to do. There are no "sidequests" as I like to think of them; nothing really in the way of hidden dungeons

Spoiler

there's one, isn't there, when you replay the game? I'm not sure, I never bothered

, no super powerful attacks to gain (well, not really), it's all animal feeding (mindless) and the occasional fetch quest.

I could go on, but mostly the biggest problem is it's waaaaaay too easy; although it's long (

Spoiler

WTF was up with the clockwork owls? My Japanese is pretty rubbish, but I understood most of what was going on, but had no clue at all what that was all about

), and in fact artifically so (stupid boss rush) there's little sense of challenge because none of it takes any real thinking.

I said several of the same things upon release but conceded that it was probably just me being annoyed with the time the game took; ducky and Bebpo were much more positive. But personally Okami disappointed me.

 

[CajoleJuice]

Recently? I'll have to give you a qft.

Dude, you might enjoy it more than me. Who knows?

You should post this review on your blog. I didn't see it there.

 

[teruterubozu]

I liked the game at first but got pretty annoyed by the end.
I really wonder if the 9/10 reviewers really played the game for more than 12 hours.

 

[nelsonroyale]

off-topic:

zelda is held up on some kind of pedestal...its a great game, but not unbeatable at all... .....there are a few games which ienjoyed more in the action adventure genre though....Outcast been a prime example, nothing alike in style of course, but far more compelling and epic to me...Beyond good and evil as well

Looking forward to this game though... and I think the twilight princess will be fantastic

peace

 

[usea]

Where are they? Where are these people who have played Okami and think it's boring, and the brush gets old, or that the combat sucks? Who says the game mechanics are gimmicky? Who else says there's simplistic gameplay, or a lack of things to do?

Where are these people?

Are you really concerned with the amount of people who share an opinion? He crafted these thoughts better than the rest of us could have, no reason to just jump in with "me too! TAKE THAT AMIR0X!"

 

[distantmantra]

Like I said, where are they? Where are these vast numbers of people who agree with him? Look at the numbers. For every person who agrees with Himuro and his belittling comments of Okami there's 99 who enjoy Okami, or simply don't see his complaints as valid.

I don't see anything wrong with Himuro's opinion, maybe you shouldn't take them so personally. Okami is a good game, but the excessive hand-holding and semi-boring combat system take this game down a notch for me.

 

[Mau ®]

WTF people! Himuro's impressions were totally objective. He was quite professional IMO.

He said he liked it and that its an amazing experience but, like most games, it has issues.

THX for the review Himuro, IMO it was the most honest review of the game yet, pointing out all its problems, not only the typical "its very easy" complaint.

 

[Luckett_X]

If only Post Reply/Post New Topic was a game. It'd probably be an over-rated one I'd have to constantly slag off in hope of winning the 'Bigger Opinion/Dick' contest.

I'm glad you got that out of your system. But good god, if you'd spent half the time learning new moves in Okami or working out the simple puzzle of drawing a line between two poles to draw a washing line (oh but wait the game holds your hand but you were stuck in the demo area hmmmm) and just generally having fun with the game as you do writing what must be the same thing 100 times by now, the world would be a more beautiful flora filled and colourful place.

 

[Javaman]

Thanks for the lengthy review Himuro. I personally prefer to read reviews that detail the good and bad instead of ones that just gush about the good things. If I decide to buy the game after reading a neutral or even negative review, I am much more likely to like the game since I know what the potential problems are and that they typically wouldn't bother me. It's amazing how defensive some people get when someone else has a different opinion of a game that they like.

 

[Limedust]

I am a little bit suprised that Cast is apparently giving the game as many props as everyone is saying he is, as we generally have pretty similar tastes on these types of games.

I am only a few hours in, but I can already see where most of Himuro's points are heading. If I am not stimulated and challenged by clever dungeon/level design, then at the end of the day I am not going to be satisfied. The game is definitely beautiful, but so far I've been beaten over the head with exactly how to do everything.

I also really dislike that the combat doesn't occur in the natural environment, but flat, featureless, and walled off arenas. The ONLY thing I do is tap the square button a few times, wait for the creature to block or turn grey, and paint a line across it.

I'll give the game its due time to grow on me, but early on it seems like a pretty coat of paint on an average adventure game.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Okay; being as I'm deep into the game and enjoying it quite a lot all around, I have at least this perspective so far on it re: the whole "Zelda Killer" hypefest.

I don't see how Okami is much more linear, annoying, or boring than most late-day Zelda games, because, to use The Wind Waker as an example, TWW was extremely linear with lots of details such as /faux sidequests/ which were really just required to move forward another inch in the primary story. To me, a Zelda game typically does a great job of making itself SEEM non-linear while carefully guiding the player along from one point to the next.

Essentially, Okami has learned quite well from Zelda and copied it pretty closely, in my view; it is not executed QUITE as smoothly, or as expertly, and I wonder if this could, in fact, be revealing some of Zelda's underlying "flaws" to some people. Because Okami doesn't hide the underlying design tools and manipulations as well as Zelda - but even that could just be a matter of perspective.

For example, I recently went back and started a new game of Ocarina of Time, and was almost startled to find how today, the game seems chock-full of "trivial" sidequests that send the player back and forth just to get to the next major plot point.

Directly compared to Zelda, Okami does not seem to have as many truly legitimate and separate side-quests. This is a legitimate point for criticism, if one wishes to view it as that causes Okami to feel more "dead" than a Zelda game.

Other points:

For myself, I don't see how combat is "all the same" no matter what weapon loadout you pick, as every time /I've/ changed weapons I have to drastically change my strategy, since the weapons sure don't seem identical to me. Also, I can't see how the combat is that much worse than the combat in Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker. Most of TooT consisted of a single slash to kill random small enemies, and a simplistic duel with like, the 2 bad guy in a dungeon or slashing bats. TWW had better action and a lot more of it, but was entirely easy; it sure didn't make you plum the depths of the battle system, such as they were.

I also feel the "chatty bitch" criticism about the dialog is hyperbole. There is a lot of text, it is true. Some of it is redundantly long - yet the game has a great translation that makes full use of all the text that's there, you have to give it that - but no WAY is Okami a clusterf**k of cascading prose like Xenogears. Xenogears/Saga is entirely in another space-time continuum. (Blame it on the Zohar Modifier.)

So far, unless the endgame entirely falls apart (but everyone I've heard says the endgame is perhaps the best part), I feel Okami actually does a lot of things better than some Zelda games, like besting the braindead overworld in TooT, and actually having better pacing than TWW.

 

[Hitokage]

SnakeX: You're part of the problem.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, let the epic battle begin. *cracks knuckles* SPOILERS, as always.

For what it is, Okami is a breath of fresh air. It is unique not only visually, but also in concept. The graphics sport a traditional Japanese painting look that feels straight out of a novel from an old Japanese time period. In fact, the graphics in this game make it quite possibly one of (if not the) most beautiful games ever developed. The music is rich in quality, boasting a classic Japanese (and sometimes Chinese) beat and rhythm. It's really majestic and has to be seen and heard to truly appreciate.

Ok, off to a good start. Great music, astounding visuals. These will never be flaws, so let's move on.

The story, while definitely cliche' and not anything new, is still extremely likable and entertaining. In fact, I'd say the story is the best part of the game. Be forewarned however, that detractors of cutscene heavy games should stay away. This game as much text as any Xenosaga (probably more).

Exaggeration. I've played and beat Xenosaga 1 and 2, and the cutscenes and dialogue in Okami doesn't even approach those games. In fact, only two cutscenes in the game approach anything in length in Xenosaga - the intro, and the end. I think people often forget that there were cutscenes and text in Xenosaga that literally took over thirty minutes to go through... which is never the case in Okami. At most, you will take five minutes in the game (except for the intro, end and

Spoiler

Orochi 1st defeat cutscene

).

But, as you mentioned the story is great... and it's cliche in the way that epic stories on Japanese mythology are cliche, which is to say the subject has been covered in various ways but probably never close to the extent here. It is superior... which is why your complaints about excessive dialogue seem a bit odd here, since I always WANT to hear what they have to say especially since the translation is mostly so excellent. (btw, for a legitimate complaint: they definitely need to have a faster scrolling through dialogue button)

The gameplay in Okami is mediocre at best. While I did say the concept is extremely creative, the mechanics and drive behind the development of these said concepts is done so spotty, it actually makes the game feel immature and gimmicky. I think as we all know now that the basis of Okami's gameplay is the Celestial Brush. The Brush, which allows you to draw things is utilized by simply holding the R1 button and drawing an object with either square or triangle. This is used to solve puzzles, interact with the enviroment, and even fight. The concept feels right out of a DS or Wii game, actually, and amazingly enough the Brush's controls are extremely intuitive and done extremely well with an analog stick. Just after learning how to draw with the brush it'll click like that, and you'll be drawing tons of stuff. The controls in this game are to be praised highly. They really out did themselves with the controls in this one, nothing feels uncomfortable, everything feels natural, and it's easy to pick up and play.

So, the brush is intuitive and well done, the controls are amazing... but the development is immature and gimmicky. Well, I suspect you cover the criticisms more in detail below.

Okami is an easy game. A really easy game. Easy usually is not a problem because even the easiest games can be fun and a blast to play, Okami however replaces fun with brain dead puzzles, linearity, and boring tasks. The game is set up in a linear fashion. You go from one town, curing the area while doing dungeons, and then move on to the next area. The game is extremely linear and offers little to do, which is a shame because the world is pretty decent in size to pull of some nifty tricks. What's more, in order for you to enter most "dungeons" (I will use that term lightly and you will understand why later on) you are often asked to do tedious and menial tasks you really don't want to do. For all the hate Wind Waker got for it's Tri-Force quest, Okami does a couple of these quests ten times as bad. It's not that the tasks are hard, they're actually pretty damn easy, it's just that the game uses these quests as padding to prolonge the game. The game flow in Okami is really off. One moment you're trying to get into a dungeon, the next minute you're collecting ingredients for a dinner. Most of these things appear to be thinly veiled sidequests at first, but it always turns out that they're actually apart of the main story, so the world ends up feeling barren, lifeless, and devoid of any side things to do. And the worst part is that once you don't have dungeons to fall back on. Once you finish these fetch quests and get inside these dungeons you realize that there's nothing all that great in the first place. Most dungeons in Okami can be completed in five minutes, and that is no exaggeration.

Firstly, there's two things that must be tackled here. One, there is nothing in Okami even a quarter as bad as the tri-force hunt. Nothing. You don't need to find maps for 8 things, and then sail to those individual eight things which may take hours, etc. None of that occurs. Himuro's first taste of this is when you must search for the 3 canine warriors after you find the first five. Finding the first five is of no consequence, they are all in an extremely small area of a single village. That is done within 5 minutes. The last 3 are spread out.

You see, the thing Himuro overlooks in the criticisms is that while you can certainly label things as 'fetchquests' or 'padding', these are all integral aspects to each 'dungeon process'. This is why the Zelda comparrisons fall, because the design is different. It's a design that may appeal to you, it's a design that may not. But it's not a flawed design. The dogs are a part of the process to get to the Crimson Helm boss... but why I personally like these quests is because they almost all go out of the way to make every distinctive character in Okami's world have a colorful personality and rich history. The Canine warrior quests don't take long - you can finish it in under 30 minutes if you like - but they're enjoyable because each aspect unveils a part of the world. And that's the best part of Okami - the world.

In search of the first canine warrior, you must save Sparrow's daughter. To do this, their daughter has been captured by some evil spirits. When you first go to Tasa pass, you see this old lady called Mrs. Cutter who chases after you in an attempt to eat you. But you don't know why, although you can certainly guess accurately. So to rescue the daughter, you must wait for moonlight and pull the sleeping Mrs. Cutter into it to reveal her true form. The little stories behind them are what is intruiging - there is no such imposition behind the finding of each tri shard, for instance, which literally equates to 'get to the end of endless enemies.' So too with the other Canine Warriors... both add a colorful aspect of the story, which helps detail the world. It's brilliant. So Okami is interesting always where Zelda: Wind Waker's 'fetchquest' was not.

And finally, and this is the most significant, is Himuro's complaint against the Moon Cave dungeon. This is where the biggest inconsistency shows up. That dungeon is in no way, shape or form a fetchquest It is equivalent to ANY Zelda dungeon in design. I don't want to force a comparrison, but in this it is true. In Zelda dungeons, you many times go through and enter rooms where the doors close and you fight enemies to progress. In Okami's Moon Cave dungeon, in order to get to Orochi you must find the dinner ingredients so you can get to him. But that's just a means to an end.

To get to each ingredient is the design of the dungeon: you must overcome puzzles, you must utilize many of your brush abilities and like Zelda you must fight enemies in order to obtain your goals. There is literally the brashest example of trying to force a definition I've seen: It's fetching only because the goal is to 'retrieve' something, but you never feel like that since you're going through the entire dungeon in the process solving puzzles and doing new shit. The fact that at the end of the various paths you find a treasure chest with a vital treasure (hell, you might as well consider them keys since they unlock the path to the boss) does not make it a fetchquest.

I brought up the brush before, and as I said, the concept is fantastic but the delivery lacks creatvity and an overall fun factor. Most puzzles in this game utilize the brush, but they are often so simple that they require literally no train of thought. Making wind to blow windmills. Slashing things with one stroke cutting them in half. While the game's feature is definitely admirable, it gets boring and old fast. Not to mention, the game even features many things we've seen in many Zelda titles before, and it doesn't even attempt to use these brush abilities uniquely. Waggling...I mean, drawing a sun or moon to make it a certain time of day is fun for five minutes, because the game doesn't really drive you to use this feature. You have this sun and moon ability but the game gets you to hardly use them. And they often feel just there. It's not really all that important or mandatory aside from a few times in the game.

Three things, the first and last are subjective and the second is addressing the bullshit in Himuro's wording.

The subjective part is I failed to be bored even once through my playtime, and that's saying something: I usually cry tears of river at easy games, but this title is so supremely polished and detailed that there was no boredom to be found.

And secondly, pass Himuro's obvious failure to understand what 'waggling' means, it's a complete and total lie that you don't ever use the sun/moon abilities. In fact, they are some of the abilities I have learned to use most of all. I use them to keep it night when I'm hunting for monsters on someone's list, they are used to quicken the process of night in Sei-An city when I'm looking for the thief, they are used when I want to make the process of getting vases on Shinshu field faster. Hell, I even use them in several puzzles (to make mushrooms grow, to make a tree grow, to solve the ship puzzle, to get the whirlpool spinning, etc). I use them all the ****ing time, and Himuro's failure to use them significantly shows a total disregard for how the game is designed. In short, it's bullshit.

And finally, the 'simplicity' argument. This is true. The game is easy. There is too much handholding, it is difficult to argue. But in all my time playing Okami, I have barely thought about it. Every aspect of the world serves to build upon itself, it's a rich and vibrant game which is ****ing jam-packed with things to do and it rarely if ever fails to show you something new. And although certainly it could have improved, specifically in pacing, these complaints waged are so utterly minor compared to what Clover acheived that it ends up as nitpicking. Make no mistake, this is an easy game. And that certainly can be a flaw depending on your perspective. I loved Wind Waker, and I love this game too... but it's a much better game than WW to boot.

In the end, you have all of these brush techniques but you use only maybe a few of them, so the rest end up as filler. This is due to the fact there's significant lack of brush lines. Most brush techniques are of the line of circle variety, making the process a chore whenever you get new ones because it's so familiar. A lot of them are very copies of eachother: Draw a line from the fire to an enemy or object and it will burn; draw a line from the water to the enemy or object and it will get wet or fill up with water. This overly simplistic gameplay mechanic leaves little room to explore, due to the fact once you get a new ability you'll probably rarely ever use it again because, as I said, a lot of these brush techniques are filler and offer little for players at all, making the entire process gimmicky.

This is another place Himuro's argument falls apart. The brush mechanic works as tools work in a Zelda game (again, forgive the direct comparrison because this is only to serve as illustration), except it's more efficient because every single tool is at your disposal at any time... unlike that game, where you only have a few slots to equip a tool and then if you need another you must go to your menu, find it and equip it. This system cuts through that, and is much better for it.

The system would totally fail if they made needlessly complex symbols to do each thing. The symbols are simple and similar because they are easy to remember, they don't require signficiant talent to draw and because in some cases it just makes sense (drawing a line from the water to another source, for instance).

This is the worst of your complaints, because designing it another way would literally CRIPPLE the game.

Your comrade Issun is an extremely opinionated little fellow. He is Okami's version of Navi. A more talkative, annoying, and ear gating version of Navi. He often goes out of his way not only to solve the puzzles in the game for you, but he constantly interrupts the flow of the gameplay by talking in general.If you want to open a door he'll often say something like,"You sure you want to continue? I don't know about that..this is scary!" and it is beyond annoying.

Issun has a important role to play in the story, and I found it interesting. It is his silly commentary on all the things you must do that gets annoying. However, the one example you use is terrible - he tells you to be careful because you're about to fight a boss. It's simply a warning to the player to prepare for the battle if he hadn't yet. That's a courtesy, not an annoyance.

You would think that battles (especially bosses) would suffice. Not in Okami. Fighting is one of the more boring aspects of the game. It starts off fine but it swings into mediocrity due to every weapon being the same (hence repetitiveness), lack of moves to pull off, and brain dead difficulty (just a little less easy than the puzzles, so I can give the combat that). Battles are either uninspired, tedious, or both. In one boss battle you have to get the boss drunk. Instead of being creative, the game simply has you draw a line from the Sake to the bosses mouth. I don't know about everyone else, but drawing lines is not my theory of an engaging boss battle.[/b] Much like the dungeons, the only particularly good boss battles are the first one and final boss. Add in a boss rush like areafor even more tedium.

Lack of moves to pull off? There are multiple moves for all three weapon types, there are brush attacks, there are even side attacks like pissing and shitting if you want to go there. There are plenty of moves to learn, which is actually SIGNIFICANTLY more than the game you wish to compare it to. How you feel the game lacks moves is astonishing. This isn't Devil May Cry or Yakuza, and the main attacks are the same as the other game (Zeruda) with repeated presses of a single button. But it is mixed up through different weapons, brush attacks, etc that is missing from alternatives. The battles ARE easy though.

Okami's quests border on unbearable. It's the ultimate form of "being good is boring" in games I've seen. I don't want to feed squirrels nuts or make trees happy. And while there are other types of sidequests, they're not that engaging either.

This is a hilarious complaint. The game focuses on returning beauty and nature to the world. If you didn't want to ****ing nurture nature, then you should not have ****ing got the game. I could have told you that from the god-damn demo. "OH NOS I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WHICH IS TOTALLY FITTING WITHIN THE GAMES THEME, KILL ME NOW."

And also, as you noted, you can avoid all of this if you like. It's silly that you're complaining about something you don't even have to do. I love doing it, because it ties into the world extremely gracefully. But if you don't, please don't burden yourself your highness.

If you don't want to do things which can be termed 'excessively happy', then please stick to the shit which appeals to you in the future. This way we can avoid these threads.

The world, while big, has a significant lack of side quests and things to do. Actually, there are lots of things to do, but they aren't particularly fun. You can revive all the trees in the game, which is the result of drawing a circle around them (which gets boring by the second time you've done it), feed animals by giving them food you've bought, do fetch quests for villagers, and that's about it.

"There isn't a lot of side quests. Oh wait, there are a lot of side quests but I don't like them." Do you realize that's what you just said?

Anyway, that's also bullshit. There are other things you can undertake besides those mentioned - you can go fishing, you can partake in various digging mini-games, you can partake in statue offering sidequest which has you taking vases to the various statues around Shinshu field, you can help the people of Sei-An city get back their stuff, you can find all the demon gates and bring those areas back to life. You can go monster hunting on those quests. These are just some examples. Your rebuttal will no doubt be 'oh they weren't fun', well that's dandy. To the vast majority of people who have played the title, these aspects ARE fun. If you did not like them, you could have avoided them early on and saved us all the headache.

And on that note, it is literally impossible to challenge Wii as a console and be an advocate for Okami. It is impossible to hate on DS and love Okami. Okami is the exact thing that many Wii/DS detractors fear but what hasn't come to past with those systems yet (especially Wii because it's not out): an over simplification of the genre and gaming as a whole with gimmicks that stay fun for about five minutes and use almost no ounce of creativity[/b].

And on to the biggest bullshit in your post. Okami is a HUGE adventure filled with tons of things to do, with action adventuring, beauty and vibrancy and a system that works extremely well without needing a ****ing gimmick controller. It is not a mini-game title, for one. It's all done by the intelligence of the design team, it did not need any of that useless touchscreen shit to make a compelling adventure. It is precisely WHY i advocate Okami - they did what they did without requiring any new fancy controller or entire new touchscreen input. And it worked damn well.

As for the hype for Okami, it seems that most of the hype of this game is by Sony fans who hate Nintendo and just want an excuse to take the spotlight off of Twilight Princess (as if it would). "Better than Zelda" "Gameplay on par with Zelda" is not only big hyperbole but an utterly laughable sham.

Bullshit #2. I won't even justify it with a real response. Except to say I licked up all your bitter tears, it tasted so ****ing good

 

[LevelNth]

Holy hell, done with the game already?! I gotta step it up.

 

[Oblivion]

Silent Hill 2. Nuff said.

That's lovely. But the point is, I think you're not being fair if you simply think Zelda stories are just rehashes. MM and WW were quite different from OoT and LttP storywise.

 

[teruterubozu]

"There isn't a lot of side quests. Oh wait, there are a lot of side quests but I don't like them." Do you realize that's what you just said?

Anyway, that's also bullshit. There are other things you can undertake besides those mentioned - you can go fishing, you can partake in various digging mini-games, you can partake in statue offering sidequest which has you taking vases to the various statues around Shinshu field, you can help the people of Sei-An city get back their stuff, you can find all the demon gates and bring those areas back to life. You can go monster hunting on those quests. These are just some examples. Your rebuttal will no doubt be 'oh they weren't fun', well that's dandy. To the vast majority of people who have played the title, these aspects ARE fun. If you did not like them, you could have avoided them early on and saved us all the headache.

The fishing was pretty mediocre - even River King does it better.
The digging games were mildly challenging, but not memorable at all - get the guy to the bottom - wooptee doo.
The monster quest was barely any different from regular incidental combat - kind of a cheap side-quest if you ask me.
Demon gates were cool looking, but again, no different than incidental combat.
The vase side-quest was ridiculous - turn day to night to day, get vase, repeat.

I don't know man, the side-quests were not that varied from the regular progression of the main story. You were just doing things "again".

 

[Error]

Himuro you should play MM, game has a ****load of sidequest and it also has some of the best sidequests ever.

 

[elostyle]

Ami just excluded me from the discussion. My ADD won't let me read through all that. I think that was his plan all along

 

[Amir0x]

The fishing was pretty mediocre - even River King does it better.
The digging games were mildly challenging, but not memorable at all - get the guy to the bottom - wooptee doo.
The monster quest was barely any different from regular incidental combat - kind of a cheap side-quest if you ask me.
Demon gates were cool looking, but again, no different than incidental combat.
The vase side-quest was ridiculous - turn day to night to day, get vase, repeat.

I don't know man, the side-quests were not that varied from the regular progression of the main story. You were just doing things "again".

That's your opinion... he said there weren't many sidequests, but there are TONS of sidequests. It just depends on your mileage. I loved doing most of it.