Nice to see people finally becoming accepting of furries.
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Fire Emblem Fates' localization doesn't have the petting minigame
- Thread starter kulapik
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Nice to see people finally becoming accepting of furries.
That was a different situation because of protection of minor laws in Europe that affected the sale of other titles before, like DOA Dimensions. I still don't know they didn't just age the one minor up a year, but it is what it is.
sensui-tomo
Member
There is a girl who believes she is a cat thread on Off topic, might need to change this statement after reading that.
Haven't seen that suggestion at all from anyone who was opposed to the mode being in in the first place, only seen it from people who wanted some kind of compromise.
I've heard that there are dialogue options in the game. They can rework it around that.
WrenchNinja
Member
You can tell this is something normal people do by the look on her face
Otherkin are weird. Otherkin aren't exactly furries though.
That means it should be very acceptable to pet her face then.
SolidSnakex
Member
The Japanese Nintendo branch is obviously dramatically different from the western Nintendo branch. The western one is the issue.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Opposition to what's there doesn't mean one is unwilling to compromise. I get it. I think some people are going over the line and I've cautioned against doing so in regards to certain sensibilities that appeal to the Japanese market. I can understand some defensiveness. But the solution isn't then to just automatically assume that everyone against what's there is being completely unreasonable and to surmise that they must have an irrational vendetta against anime.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more unity between the branches so that situations like this can be avoided in the first place, and to possibly minimize the amount of time needing to spent on localizations in general. It's a tough spot for any of them to be in because of that gap that isn't being filled in a way that can satisfy the entire audience. I would much prefer these kinds of matters to be nipped in the bud much earlier on in the development, and I think most people would want that, too.
Schädelkeks
Neo Member
DOA Dimensions is ages 12+ in Germany. There never was a problem with it as far as i know.
Actually, I suggested this extremely early on.
I feel like a lot of people in this thread are getting too hung up over with what is censorship vs localization, what is creepy, and just trying to one up each other to get any good discussion going on beyond that :/
Then you are one of the few.
Snkfanatic
Banned
You can tell this is something normal people do by the look on her face
Normal people? lol
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Yup. Which I still find weird because their age of consent is lower than any of the characters' ages. Can't be helped, I guess.
I suggested early in the thread that they can replace the face rubbing with some other action that makes the feature work instead of having the whole thing taken out.
So I now ask: If they replace the use of touchscreen with a simple "Press "A" to Talk/Converse/Interact" and tone down the dialogue to remove the more "lewd" lines so that we still get all the Gameplay/Support bonuses from this feature, would you be okay with that?
Bear in mind that I don't support removing the feature as it originally was, but if it absolutely HAS to go, I think there needs to be some kind of "make up" feature.
SenorArdilla
Member
Didn't you know? People who want the petting minigame aren't considered normal.
Elaugaufein
Member
I think it depends on what you mean ? I've seen people use "settled earlier in development" to just mean "I wish it was cut before anyone knew about because then I can't be accused of supporting censorship" which is clever but not exactly convincing to me. If something that wasn't the most risk averse thing possible came out of the process then sure.
Steve Youngblood
Member
In theory I have no issue with it. In practice I'm not sure how these interactions will play out in English even without the rubbing, but I understand that it's something.
Elaugaufein
Member
Think it had to do with the international child pornography laws. They define minors as those under 18 (rather than those under the age of consent. It can lead to some odd things in countries that have ages of consent under 18.
Or it might have been that Kasumi was 15 at the time DOAD starts ? It's actually a kind of retrospective / clip game that starts before the original DoA .
Can't remember the exact details now.
DecoReturns
Member
With so many mixed opinions here, Imagine how NOA feels right now. They got caught in a lose-lose situation.
I want the whole game to be gone tbh
Prax
Member
I think it should be just as suggested: press A to talk (maybe even with a few options, like a - compliment, y - say hi, r - wait for them to say something). The the responses would be slotted into whatever category fits so you get a random one each time.
Then maybe you can change the camera angles a bit using the stylus to get more of the live 2d assets shown off. That's just a viewing angle deal and their eyes can follow you.
But it does require a rewrite so it's in character and also not stupid/suggestive of being touched in some private tent/casting couch situation. lol Like that.. requires more work, but.. I think they are up for it! XD
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Thanks for actually humoring me and not getting mad with my request.
I understand your position, I just don't equate self-censorship with the truly historically dangerous notion of censorship. If these localization decisions were "orders" from the country of release of the product, or any other external entity outside of the publisher/developer handling the product, that would set a terrifying precedent.
But since that doesn't appear to be the case, I personally don't see the problem is. This type of self-censorship, so to speak, has been happening since the beginning of exportation of creative goods. The only difference is that now with the spread of communication through the internet, we're aware of it.
I don't see it as things becoming increasingly policed. I think we just see it more.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe, but their age of consent is 15 so it's more likely due to the other things you mentioned.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
And as I said to RM8, that's kind of selfish considering the people that would like that mini-game.
They're probably used to all bickering and complaints. NOA seems to get hate from all sides almost on a daily basis nowadays.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Public perception of the Fire Emblem brand is "isn't that the series with a lot of incest and naked little girl dragons?"
The mini-game would have very little effect on that, and removing it wouldn't erase the above perception, because well, that's still in Fates.
DecoReturns
Member
Well this is false.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Nonsense, there's no evidence of that. It was removed worldwide, including the early Japanese release, so if there was ever a problem with ratings boards it's new standards for the CERO A rating in Japan. Might have affected a couple costumes in DQVIII on 3DS too.
NCL would not have had that changed worldwide just for North America.
It's not because of anime, it's about PRINCIPLES. No hard feelings.
I'm pretty sure it's known as a revered TBS game before that.
As someone who only really observes FE from the outside, this has not traditionally been my perception of it at all, though lately it certainly feels like the fanbase is trying to change my mind on that.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Remove the dialogue is only half the problem. The face rubbing stupidity is just as big a problem.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
I'm just frustrated with how this game has turned out.
I like Fire Emblem. I've wanted a new Fire Emblem game. I didn't really want a face-rubbing Fire Emblem game. It doesn't offend me, but it's just not the experience I've been seeking? Ditto the whole "drug somebody to convert somebody/that's not what it means at all" dichotomy/debate/whatever. I don't want to weigh in on how to parse that (since I have heard so many conflicting accounts. "conversion" is a vile concept), but it's alienating to me either way. Like, as a fan, I don't feel like I should have to do a lot of research just to figure out how stupid it is/is not.
Just feels like a lot of off beats. I guess I'm more frustrated that these conversations are necessary, that script and design decisions have dragged us to this point. Cutting the content doesn't hide or ameliorate potentially dumb decisions, because it's easy to know what is in the Japanese version.
Nintendo is a global brand. Fire Emblem is a global brand, as well. I wish they'd consider these issues as a business, and make sensible global decisions, instead of leaving it up to us to shit on each-other on the Internet about it.
I like Fire Emblem. I've wanted a new Fire Emblem game. I didn't really want a face-rubbing Fire Emblem game. It doesn't offend me, but it's just not the experience I've been seeking? Ditto the whole "drug somebody to convert somebody/that's not what it means at all" dichotomy/debate/whatever. I don't want to weigh in on how to parse that (since I have heard so many conflicting accounts. "conversion" is a vile concept), but it's alienating to me either way. Like, as a fan, I don't feel like I should have to do a lot of research just to figure out how stupid it is/is not.
Just feels like a lot of off beats. I guess I'm more frustrated that these conversations are necessary, that script and design decisions have dragged us to this point. Cutting the content doesn't hide or ameliorate potentially dumb decisions, because it's easy to know what is in the Japanese version.
Nintendo is a global brand. Fire Emblem is a global brand, as well. I wish they'd consider these issues as a business, and make sensible global decisions, instead of leaving it up to us to shit on each-other on the Internet about it.
well more than likely this getting changed probably makes it so it isn't in the next game. The people speaking out against it have "won" and were listened to...so I think the next FE will be very different.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Seriously. Public perception of Fire Emblem is largely "What's a Fire Emblem?"
Elaugaufein
Member
I mean ignoring everything I know as a video gamer , it's that anime looking game I saw an ad for in a magazine about a decade ago Was an ad I saw for Sacred Stones in Dragon Magazine.
BassForever
Member
I'm pretty sure public perception of fire emblemn is a bunch of anime sword fighters in smash bros
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Don't even Compile Hearts fans hate Mugen Souls?
Public perception of Fire Emblem is more likely to move along a spectrum of
A) what the hell is Fire Emblem
B) some kind of JRPG?
C) it's that Nintendo strategy RPG game
Depending on how often someone unfamiliar with it encounters it.
The only people I ever see bang on about implied incest in Fire Emblem are those familiar with the older games in the series, which is hardly the general public.
Gaf seems to have picked up on little dragon girls recently due to the abomination that is Nowi, but again, that's hardly the general public. Even on Gaf I think it's just that more people played Awakening (or are aware of it due to Nintendo cross-promoting it to raise its profile) than previous games.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
It's not remotely the same thing and I'm glad the rumor turned out to be false, but I do still think this removal has unintentional LGBT aspects as well. Quoting Tyeforce again I guess:
Novel Mike
Member
I posted this early on but since the topic has slowed down somewhat I think this is something thats worth mentioning...
Okay first off I want to start by bringing up something I couldn't really find in this topic, what exactly this feature did (if anything) from http://serenesforest.net/forums/inde...howtopic=54895
So lets take away the actual act of the skinship mini game for a moment and what we have is Nintendo removing a feature that provided a support and battle bonus to characters that is optional but useful, take that as you will (either positive or negative or just indifferent).
Now lets talk about the actual skinship events, I watched a few before I posted this and while I thought it was weird (I can certainly see some people saying creepy, I guess) its not as if you are touching these peoples private parts or really even in a sexual way (although it sounds like the S ranked conversations during this can be much more lewd) and sounds like it was completely harmless... weird, but harmless.
The actual problem I have with this however is that after Awakening was such a big hit in the west Nintendo knew they would be bringing Fates to the west (correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first announcement of the game also a confirmation it would be coming to the west?) and most people would tell you with one look at the skinship system from the original announcement that there was no way it would come over to the west as it was...
So why was it still in the game as it is? Why instead of just a simple face touching mini game wasn't it changed to be more of an interactive support mechanic where instead of touching peoples faces you converse with and 'touch' (not the same thing, keep reading!) the other character. Say one of the characters is feeling down about their performance in battle, you could raise their spirits by patting them on the back and telling them they were fine/can do better/you believe in them, ect or if they did really well you can high-five or fist bump or something, if you are romancing someone can hold hands, or hug, you get the idea. Touching itself is a powerful thing with people you care about and I think it could actually be a good mechanic. Keep the idea of 'skinship' but making it less creepy for general audiences and perhaps actually have more character development in such segments, because as it stands we now don't have this feature and any voiced lines along with it that could have provided more character interaction which is the reason I like the FE series so much is the character interaction, even if the feature was weird.
So that's my question or rather suggestion to Nintendo going forward, if you actually going to have to remove features from a game in one region or another why aren't you talking to the developers to design features to be appropriate for all? I think the alternative I listed in the last paragraph is better all around then face touching and you would generally see less backlash then every time you remove something from a game because of localization. I don't want things removed from my game so either give people the option or stop designing things that you end up having to to remove in western releases.
To some, this is a non-issue and I get that, its a small thing but I like my games to be complete and the idea that I'm paying a high premium for the game already (its 80$ for this game, don't say its not because we all know it is!) and it has less content (even if that content I freely admit is weird and I would mostly laugh at) just doesn't sit well with me.
Okay first off I want to start by bringing up something I couldn't really find in this topic, what exactly this feature did (if anything) from http://serenesforest.net/forums/inde...howtopic=54895
So lets take away the actual act of the skinship mini game for a moment and what we have is Nintendo removing a feature that provided a support and battle bonus to characters that is optional but useful, take that as you will (either positive or negative or just indifferent).
Now lets talk about the actual skinship events, I watched a few before I posted this and while I thought it was weird (I can certainly see some people saying creepy, I guess) its not as if you are touching these peoples private parts or really even in a sexual way (although it sounds like the S ranked conversations during this can be much more lewd) and sounds like it was completely harmless... weird, but harmless.
The actual problem I have with this however is that after Awakening was such a big hit in the west Nintendo knew they would be bringing Fates to the west (correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first announcement of the game also a confirmation it would be coming to the west?) and most people would tell you with one look at the skinship system from the original announcement that there was no way it would come over to the west as it was...
So why was it still in the game as it is? Why instead of just a simple face touching mini game wasn't it changed to be more of an interactive support mechanic where instead of touching peoples faces you converse with and 'touch' (not the same thing, keep reading!) the other character. Say one of the characters is feeling down about their performance in battle, you could raise their spirits by patting them on the back and telling them they were fine/can do better/you believe in them, ect or if they did really well you can high-five or fist bump or something, if you are romancing someone can hold hands, or hug, you get the idea. Touching itself is a powerful thing with people you care about and I think it could actually be a good mechanic. Keep the idea of 'skinship' but making it less creepy for general audiences and perhaps actually have more character development in such segments, because as it stands we now don't have this feature and any voiced lines along with it that could have provided more character interaction which is the reason I like the FE series so much is the character interaction, even if the feature was weird.
So that's my question or rather suggestion to Nintendo going forward, if you actually going to have to remove features from a game in one region or another why aren't you talking to the developers to design features to be appropriate for all? I think the alternative I listed in the last paragraph is better all around then face touching and you would generally see less backlash then every time you remove something from a game because of localization. I don't want things removed from my game so either give people the option or stop designing things that you end up having to to remove in western releases.
To some, this is a non-issue and I get that, its a small thing but I like my games to be complete and the idea that I'm paying a high premium for the game already (its 80$ for this game, don't say its not because we all know it is!) and it has less content (even if that content I freely admit is weird and I would mostly laugh at) just doesn't sit well with me.
SolidSnakex
Member
Well, Nintendo of Japan runs the show as far as their games go. So they aren't going to budge on including this content in the initial release. They aren't going to care about what western audiences think of the game. Particularly when the series was basically on its deathbed before it came back in a big way once Nintendo started including content that some western audiences aren't fans of. So the changes are all going to come down to the western division. At this point the western division has put themselves in a position where this type of content has to be removed always because they've already set a precedent for it.
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