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First Red Steel 2 trailer!
- Thread starter Zoramon089
- Start date
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
PS2 port confirmed.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
aeolist said:
House of the Dead Overkill had that motion blur...
Nuclear Muffin said:
Excite bots/truck too. A lot of Wii games have it.
I think the textures and models look to high res for it to be realtime(though, it depends on how many characters it will be on screen at once), but I think the game will look pretty close to this. The trailer was certainly interesting, and I think the Wii can fare pretty well with all that angular geometry. Let's hope we'll get a decent media blowout at E3, where we can see the game in action.
abstract alien
Member
Wait...isnt this going to run at 60fps?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's interesting to note that the gun he uses in this trailer is not the same gun that appears in the screenshots of the Nintendo Power and ONM preview. The scene where the masked sword fighter is lunging while the player has a gun out appears different. Same scene, same character, just a different weapon.
abstract alien
Member
Cool, hopefully its a requirement. I cant imagine how motion control on this level would work in a sub-60fps environment. Well, it work i guess...but it seems like it would be the equivalent of a fighting game running at 30fps.Jaagen said:
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
gamingeek said:
Watching the trailer again I'm pretty convinced all the assets and basic rendering is in-game. It's really not that amazing, at least technically. Sure, the trailer is limited, but from what we can see the geometry is largely block based and not overly detailed, poly counts on characters are hardly anything unexpected for the Wii, the cel-shading doesn't look any better than something like Wind Waker, and textures are not super detailed.
Lighting looks pretty standard and bloom is totally reasonable. Wii games can and do support depth of field and motion blur and nothing in the trailer is more aggressive than the original Red Steel. Even the shadows don't look super amazing when interacting with the character that falls into them.
As I said, the only thing here that I can see as false is the obviously high resolution, and no doubt the AA and AF to make the whole presentation crisp. That and, of course, the animations. However, all the actual art assets and capabilities of the engine don't wow me as impossible on the Wii at all. I'd say the whole thing looks reasonable on a technical level, and just looks great thanks to the above mentioned rendering cheating and the great art.
I figure the final product will look very similar to this, only in a much lower resolution and probably with tons of jaggies. This isn't like the first bullshot trailer and screens of Red Steel, being something clearly beyond what the Wii is actually capable of.
That's my 2c.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Jaagen said:
There are several types of motion blur effects, the one that kinggroin is referring to is per pixel motion blur (The one that devs use on the 360 and PS3) It is a much more advanced effect that requires a lot more processing power.
HOTD Overkill is the only Wii game that uses this type of motion blur (You notice it when the camera turns around)
LegendofJoe
Member
I'm waiting for the Zelda team to show everyone how swordplay should be done, but the style Ubi's going for here is definitely intriguing. I love the music they used in this render too, so I'm going to be keeping an optimistic eye open.
kinggroin said:
I think that motion-blur from the trailer is perfectly possible on Wii, at little cost. I haven't tried it myself but you could do it per-vertex and with the help of some TEV trickery it'll look like per-pixel motion blur.
If Red Steel 2 uses matrix palette skinning, which I believe most Wii games do, you can use the very same transformation matrices to calculate texturecoordinate-offset vector on the CPU. Now say the game uses 4 to 6 TEV stages at the moment (the outlines look painted on the textures to me, so that justs leaves an ambient color stage, diffuse texture stage, DOT3 light stage with lookup for cell shading and maybe something else) you can still waste at least 8 stages on motion blur on the GPU, which essentially offsets the texturecoords with the transformed vectors from the matrix palette of the animation system, uses the new texturecoords for a lookup in the diffuse texture, and alpha-blends the new pixel with the old one (for each TEV stage).
At least this is what I'd try if I had to take a shot at it.
Could they include the motion blur and have it run at 60fps, though? HotD: Overkill paid the price with a really unstable framerate a lot of the time. Also, the date at the beginning of this trailer says 2/13/09, so the trailer is three months old. That might explain the different gun and whatnot.
Zoramon089
Banned
rezuth said:
. . .
Anyone confused by this statement?
:lolHaunted said:
no, it makes perfect sense. it has been done before with other trailers and even in-game. i believe games i've been involved with have done it for cutscenes.Zoramon089 said:
if i remember correctly they did it for the PS2 version of RE4 also? i think you could tell because leon's costume didn't change if you gave him an unlocked one on a second playthrough. cutscenes were simply videos which were pre-recorded using in-game assets so it still looked the same, but there was always some compression that gave it away.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
scitek said:
Three months old and still has ~4 - 5 months of development to go. If it looks this good now I'm quite impressed.
scitek said:
I don't think the framerate of HotD: Overkill had anything to do with the graphics. Motion-blur is always on (or at least as I see it, you don't switch it on as an effect, it's more like postprocessing), you just don't see it when objects move slowly, thus its performance is very consistent. My guess with HotD is that the streaming of textures and lightmaps causes the hiccups. Either that or it's the memory management for the particlesystems, maybe they used the MEM1 Heap EXT "something" functions (forgot the name, it's been a couple of years) to allocate / deallocate memory on the fly, which are often fast but sometimes really slow.
Just speculation of course.. I don't know how Headstrong games implemented things.
Bluemercury
Member
Apenheul said:
You worked on Gamecube?
Cosmonaut X
Member
Apenheul said:
Given that the framerate issues with HotD:Overkill seem to be resolved when dumped to solid-state memory using homebrew apps and run from there, I'd guess the problem is to do with streaming. IIRC, most of the noticeable framedrops came in between waves of zombies (Mutants!) as the camera moved to the next sequence, rather than during the action.
Will wait for some actual hands-on but it would not surprise me to see graphics close to this quality.
Nobody has really stepped up and come close to even Factor 5 GC launch quality (except Nintendo) but yet its apparently impossible to GAF to make anything good looking on Wii
Ubisoft has also gotten their shit together, a lot of GAF ignored Shaun White Snowboarding and RRTV last winter but they both used cel shading for their graphics and were excellent.
If RS2 looks close to that trailer it won't surprise me at all.
Also anyone arguing that nobody could have incorporated M+ this fast does not read any inteviews apparently. EA and SEGA have said they have no real problems incorporating the controls and I doubt Grand Slam Tennis was in development for 2 years. High Voltage said practically the same thing and decided against M+ because they don't have any melee weapons in Conduit.
The only they "problem" (if you want to call it a problem) was the device was too sensitive, I hardly think any developer would complain about that since Nintendo has been helping every M+ developer when a problem arises.
Nobody has really stepped up and come close to even Factor 5 GC launch quality (except Nintendo) but yet its apparently impossible to GAF to make anything good looking on Wii
Ubisoft has also gotten their shit together, a lot of GAF ignored Shaun White Snowboarding and RRTV last winter but they both used cel shading for their graphics and were excellent.
If RS2 looks close to that trailer it won't surprise me at all.
Also anyone arguing that nobody could have incorporated M+ this fast does not read any inteviews apparently. EA and SEGA have said they have no real problems incorporating the controls and I doubt Grand Slam Tennis was in development for 2 years. High Voltage said practically the same thing and decided against M+ because they don't have any melee weapons in Conduit.
The only they "problem" (if you want to call it a problem) was the device was too sensitive, I hardly think any developer would complain about that since Nintendo has been helping every M+ developer when a problem arises.
I actually had ZERO problem with the framerate in HOTD
verkill. I mean it definitely jumped in some sequences, but I would say the framerate was way more than playable and falls into the nitpicking category. If RS2 holds up like HOTDverkill (one of my absolute favorite games this gen) then that's perfectly fine by me.
verkill. I mean it definitely jumped in some sequences, but I would say the framerate was way more than playable and falls into the nitpicking category. If RS2 holds up like HOTDverkill (one of my absolute favorite games this gen) then that's perfectly fine by me.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
was there any doubt about that? maybe my wii drive is noisier than the average drive, but i've always been able to tell when the drive reads.Cosmonaut X said:Given that the framerate issues with HotD:Overkill seem to be resolved when dumped to solid-state memory using homebrew apps and run from there, I'd guess the problem is to do with streaming. IIRC, most of the noticeable framedrops came in between waves of zombies (“Mutants!”
@Apenheul:
just curious, how do you do a dot3 in a single TEV stage?
markatisu said:
The Wii hardware is quite capable, just takes a bit of doing to make it shine, and we are starting to see that now. Everyone bases the system's power on a bunch of shovelware and half assed port from devs that never really even tried on the Gamecube. Nothing in that trailer is not possible on the Wii, save for the resolution.
Finally, Ubisoft seems to have gotten its groove back especially on the Wii of all platforms. Between Red Steel 2 and Rabbids Go Home, there's reason to care about the company again.
I still remain skeptical about the potential overall quality of Red Steel 2 but can't help but get excited about MotionPlus swordplay and the game's cool art style.
The trailer looked like it was using the in-game graphics engine in my opinion.
I didn't have any beef with frame rate in HOTD: Overkill either despite some slightly ocassional slowdown . The only real problem with the game was the terribly annoying dialogue and f'ed up story.
I still remain skeptical about the potential overall quality of Red Steel 2 but can't help but get excited about MotionPlus swordplay and the game's cool art style.
The trailer looked like it was using the in-game graphics engine in my opinion.
I didn't have any beef with frame rate in HOTD: Overkill either despite some slightly ocassional slowdown . The only real problem with the game was the terribly annoying dialogue and f'ed up story.
What's the big deal with motion blur? I mean I don't claim to be an expert on programming or anything, but it doesn't seem like it should be a very processor intensive thing to do. I've been able to make a basic motion blur type thing work in some of my games by just taking the last frame, slapping it over the current frame, and making it translucent.
like he said earlier, it depends on the type of motion blur applied. per-pixel is actually the most realistic as it is how motion blur happens in real life (every individual aspect of something is blurred between frames taking into account all depth of field, lighting, etc). There are plenty of ways to cheat motion blur to varying degrees of success.. but the "real" one is very expensive in terms of power. well, relatively..KevinCow said:
Cygnus X-1
Member
Door2Dawn said:
Maybe Sony will really unveil a Wiimote-like controller.
Bluemercury said:
Yes sir
EDIT:
I just realized that you can't distort / offset texturecoordinates on Wii (which is why you don't see parallax-bumpmapping on Wii for example), unless you use the Indirect Texture Unit. So the texturecoordinate offsets for motion-blur would need to be prepared before rendering.
blu said:
You can get a per-vertex DOT3 if you enable a hardware (fixed pipeline) light, the light-term then is the result of the dotproduct of the vertex normal and the normalized light direction. This light-term you can use as an interpolator in a TEV stage.
markatisu said:
You can't compare sports games where everything is being done in a very strictly controlled environment to an open-world first-person adventure game, though. Like I said before, I wouldn't expect it to be much different from the first game as far as the sword fighting goes. They'll probably make the fights 1-on-1 again so they'll be done in a completely controlled environment. They had a system that worked for what it was in the first game, it was just horribly inaccurate so it didn't work well. My guess is it will be much the same only your movements will actually work this time. They'll probably prompt you to finish them off with the gun or whatever with QTEs like in Madworld.