Support NeoGAF

[Etrian Oddity]

The P90x thread is pretty dead, so I think I'm going to flit in and out from this thread. I figure since this incorporates muscle-building/toning into my routine, this thread warrants more visits from me.

My diet matches my goals: Low carbs, low calories, high protein. Cut the bad shit and I'm eating super-clean.

• Turkey bacon omelet
• Protein shake (24g protein)
• Lunch = Salmon fillet w/brown rice, or chicken salad
• 1/4 cup almonds or peanuts
• Greek yogurt mixed with 24g protein powder (insanely tasty)
• Chicken salad or some other protein.

That was what I ate today, for example. Only thing that's throwing me off is fats...I've heard conflicting reports of either fats or carbohydrates needing to be higher.

 

[Maxim726X]

Back Exercises
Bent Over Rows
Pull Overs
Shrugs
Dead Lift

Upper Arm, Triceps, Biceps
Close Grip Bench Press
Skull Crushers
Dumbbell Kickback
Curls. Preacher and Reverse
Inverted Body Row
Dips

Shoulder
Upright Rows
Press
Front Raise
Rear Delt Row

Chest
Bench Press
Decline Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Fly's

Legs
All the leg machines

Was any others recommend.

Squats? Those are a must.

 

[MjFrancis]

I wouldn't say that squats are a must, though it is telling that zero consideration was given to any particular form of leg training while everything else was spelled out.

Squats are undoubtedly more difficult but also quite rewarding in comparison to say, the leg press, so consideration is definitely warranted. Now, squatting then leg pressing, that would be doubly awesome. I think the squat has an awesome multiplier for any leg exercise performed afterwards, so you might even be golden if you follow them up with the inner/outer thigh machine that soccer moms usually covet for magical spot reduction properties.

 

[MjFrancis]

diet

Did you add up the total calories of this and compare it to your BMR? If you come out with a caloric intake under your maintenance, stick with a diet like this. It's high protein, med/low carb and med/low fat. Count everything to be sure, though, variances between different serving sizes could skew perception.

If this works (i.e. losing a pound or two a week) stick with it. I prefer to lower the carbohydrate intake over the other variables as I seek to slim down, so consider this when fat loss stalls. Lose it slowly enough so you know it's fat loss and not weight loss. Losing muscle is rarely awesome, losing fat is always awesome.

 

[parrotbeak]

I wouldn't say that squats are a must, though it is telling that zero consideration was given to any particular form of leg training while everything else was spelled out.

 

[deadbeef]

One more workout and then no squats for a week, hallelujah! Today was the worst, I threw up in my mouth a little, so that was gross. Today was the highest total poundage across all sets and reps. Last workout is tomorrow, and I will not fail.

 

[alex chilton]

Just started my cut. I think I failed on my last cut because I didn't count my calories and ended up eating waaay too little which made me go a little crazy lol.This time I've properly portioned everything and I'm surprised about how much I can actually eat.

 

[rando14]

I wouldn't say that squats are a must, though it is telling that zero consideration was given to any particular form of leg training while everything else was spelled out.

Squats are undoubtedly more difficult but also quite rewarding in comparison to say, the leg press, so consideration is definitely warranted. Now, squatting then leg pressing, that would be doubly awesome. I think the squat has an awesome multiplier for any leg exercise performed afterwards, so you might even be golden if you follow them up with the inner/outer thigh machine that soccer moms usually covet for magical spot reduction properties.

There was a really interesting video posted in the first fitness thread regarding squats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2JPn6gbKM

While I don't necessarily agree, it is important to recognize the potential downsides. Ultimately it comes down to making sure you have great form because a lot of these "essential" exercises can be (and often are, in the gym) easily messed up.

 

[parrotbeak]

Where do you guys put your feet in relation to the starting position of the bar when doing bent over bb rows?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Did you add up the total calories of this and compare it to your BMR? If you come out with a caloric intake under your maintenance, stick with a diet like this. It's high protein, med/low carb and med/low fat. Count everything to be sure, though, variances between different serving sizes could skew perception.

If this works (i.e. losing a pound or two a week) stick with it. I prefer to lower the carbohydrate intake over the other variables as I seek to slim down, so consider this when fat loss stalls. Lose it slowly enough so you know it's fat loss and not weight loss. Losing muscle is rarely awesome, losing fat is always awesome.

Ya, I have an Excel sheet where I log each day's caloric, fat, carbohydrate, and protein intake. Makes it a lot easier to not fall off the wagon, lemme tell you.

My BMR is supposed to be 2363, but it seems I've been eating close to 800 calories less than that. I never let it dip below 1200, but I seem to average between 14k and 18k.

 

[MWS Natural]

There was a really interesting video posted in the first fitness thread regarding squats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2JPn6gbKM

While I don't necessarily agree, it is important to recognize the potential downsides. Ultimately it comes down to making sure you have great form because a lot of these "essential" exercises can be (and often are, in the gym) easily messed up.

Cool video. Looks like he has a bit of roid chest going on though.


I was going to make a post the other day seeing where people thought the right weight to start wearing a weight belt was. I read that you shouldn't wear one all the time because your back becomes used to it and the muscles don't get conditioned to the weight.

 

[deadbeef]

Cool video. Looks like he has a bit of roid chest going on though.


I was going to make a post the other day seeing where people thought the right weight to start wearing a weight belt was. I read that you shouldn't wear one all the time because your back becomes used to it and the muscles don't get conditioned to the weight.

If we're talking squats, I put mine on when I get near 85% effort.

Speaking of squats I finished the Smolov base mesocycle today. Last workout took me 1 hour 45 minutes. Not fun. I will test next Sunday.

 

[MWS Natural]

Did a quick search after I posted and came up with this from the stronglifts site:

Do You Need Weight Belts? If you don’t feel like reading the whole pdf, here are some of the key points of Stuart McGill’s research.

If you never injured your back, wearing a belt adds no safety.
If you injure yourself while wearing a belt, the injury is more severe.
To get the most out of weight belts, you must lift with bad technique.
If you want to lift a few more pounds, wear a weight belt.



Why I Never Recommend Weight Belts. Guy subscribes to a gym. Does Biceps Curls like the other guys. Gets stronger. Hyper-extends his back on each rep to get even stronger. Gets lower back pain.

He wears a belt upon recommendation of the gym people. No more pain. Back to curls, but still hyper-extending his back. Pain comes back, but worse. Doctor diagnoses him with a hernia. Weight lifting gets bad reputation again.

It was Biceps Curls, but it could have been Squats or Deadlifts. If you don’t lift correctly, you’ll injure yourself. That’s why I don’t recommend belts: they give a false sense of security. And according to McGill, injuries get more severe.

http://stronglifts.com/weight-lifting-belts-to-wear-or-not-to-wear/

He's basically saying unless you have a previous back injury or back problems don't use a weight belt.

 

[gburgess10]

http://i.imgur.com/4A8AQl.jpg

Lol! So true, by the way. A lot of guys look like that in the gym I go to.

In regards to BB Rows, I generally start off with a deadlift stance/foot placement.

 

[parrotbeak]

IMO for the vast majority of people who are not entering meets or bb contests, fitness should be about functionality. You're not going to have a belt on when you move furniture around or in an emergency situation. If you wear it all the time your abs will be used to having something to press against when you lift something heavy and not be as well prepared when you don't have it on in every day situations.

 

[BertramCooper]

So I've now gone from being a fat fuck who couldn't even run half a mile without almost keeling over to being able to run more than six miles without stopping.

Feels good man.

 

[Draft]

IMO for the vast majority of people who are not entering meets or bb contests, fitness should be about functionality. You're not going to have a belt on when you move furniture around or in an emergency situation. If you wear it all the time your abs will be used to having something to press against when you lift something heavy and not be as well prepared when you don't have it on in every day situations.

You're also probably not going to put a 300 lb dresser on your back and start squatting it up and down.

A belt during the heavy sets isn't going to reduce functional strength in any appreciable way.

If we're talking squats, I put mine on when I get near 85% effort.

Speaking of squats I finished the Smolov base mesocycle today. Last workout took me 1 hour 45 minutes. Not fun. I will test next Sunday.

Can't wait to hear this.

 

[X-Frame]

Does anybody have any recommendations of blogs that they follow in Google Reader in respect to fitness?

I follow people mostly like Eric Cressey, Lyle McDonald, Alwyn Cosgrove, etc. Looking to expand my subscriptions.

 

[Chichikov]

IMO for the vast majority of people who are not entering meets or bb contests, fitness should be about functionality. You're not going to have a belt on when you move furniture around or in an emergency situation. If you wear it all the time your abs will be used to having something to press against when you lift something heavy and not be as well prepared when you don't have it on in every day situations.

You're also not going to be squatting a furniture twice your weight.

Weight belts are fine, you're still working your core, you still need to stabilize your spine, and they allow you to displace heavier weights, which is a benefit in and by itself (bone density, ligament strength etc.) not to mention that they enable you to work all your muscles (core included) harder.

Also, hernia fucking blows.

 

[Draft]

Does anybody have any recommendations of blogs that they follow in Google Reader in respect to fitness?

I follow people mostly like Eric Cressey, Lyle McDonald, Alwyn Cosgrove, etc. Looking to expand my subscriptions.

70s big.

Squat RX.

Along the lines of.

Spoiler

Team Gorilla.

 

[X-Frame]

70s big.

Squat RX.

Along the lines of.

Spoiler

Team Gorilla.

All good recommendations!

What else?! Lol.

 

[Draft]

All good recommendations!

What else?! Lol.

Mark's Daily Apple is pretty good but more focused on nutrition than lifting. Mobility WOD is also good but hasn't updated much recently.

 

[MjFrancis]

In addition to some of those web logs, I also like Al Kavadlo's We're Working Out!, Martin Berkhan's Lean Gains, and Nick Horton's The Iron Samurai.

 

[parrotbeak]

A belt during the heavy sets isn't going to reduce functional strength in any appreciable way.
Can't wait to hear this.

Weight belts are fine, you're still working your core, you still need to stabilize your spine, and they allow you to displace heavier weights, which is a benefit in and by itself (bone density, ligament strength etc.) not to mention that they enable you to work all your muscles (core included) harder.

True, I can see just using it during the heavy sets, although I guess I see guys either wearing or not wearing, and not switching it on just on heavy sets.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Just did deadlift for the first time is 315x3 good? I almost threw up lol.

 

[MrToughPants]

Just did deadlift for the first time is 315x3 good? I almost threw up lol.

If you've never done them before it's a good start to build on.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

If you've never done them before it's a good start to build on.

Yeah, I've never done them before. Just looked at the chart, thought it would have been better than that, oh well. Shouldn't have expected to perform better when I've never done them, haha.

Used the ripptoe video for form, didn't feel bad at all.

My abs are sore as hell now down by my hips, I'm assuming thats from the deadlifts, or squats, but I've never had my lower abs be sore from squats before.

 

[MjFrancis]

Given your bench numbers shogun, that's a fine start and you should be able to build nicely upon that. What was your warm-up?

 

[Maxim726X]

Just did deadlift for the first time is 315x3 good? I almost threw up lol.

How is that possible? Did you do any lower back exercises prior?

That's a lot of weight for someone that has never done a deadlift before... How much do you weigh?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Given your bench numbers shogun, that's a fine start and you should be able to build nicely upon that. What was your warm-up?

Warm up was 275x10 I did them directly after squatting. After deadlifts I did romanian deadlift 225x10, 5, 5.

I've really just recently begun lower body training. So this is all pretty "new" to me.

How is that possible? Did you do any lower back exercises prior?

That's a lot of weight for someone that has never done a deadlift before... How much do you weigh?

No, except for a little bit of squatting, leg curls and leg extensions.

I weigh 240 standing military press 195 (barbell), bench 325, curl 110, and now deadlift 315 (probably more since that was x3.)

 

[Maxim726X]

Warm up was 275x10 I did them directly after squatting. After deadlifts I did romanian deadlift 225x10, 5, 5.

I've really just recently begun lower body training. So this is all pretty "new" to me.




No, except for a little bit of squatting, leg curls and leg extensions.

I weigh 240 standing military press 195 (barbell), bench 325, curl 110, and now deadlift 315 (probably more since that was x3.)

Great start... I weigh 165 and had to start at 200, for a reference point.

You're going to be amazed at how quickly you go up in weight- in less than 6 months I'm at 350 (also sets of 3).

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Great start... I weigh 165 and had to start at 200, for a reference point.

You're going to be amazed at how quickly you go up in weight- in less than 6 months I'm at 350 (also sets of 3).

Nice, I can't wait to be in the 400+.

 

[Maxim726X]

Nice, I can't wait to be in the 400+.

You won't have to wait long.

Try in 3 months, you'll be able to do it with ease.

 

[reilo]

Moving into a new place is surely one way to screw up a regiment. Thankfully I only missed one workout through all of this (yesterday), but thankfully working out made moving easier. It was more a mental workout than anything. My eating habits have sucked these past few days, that's for sure.

Time to get back on track tomorrow.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Just realized I'm beyond advanced for press too, kick ass. (195x3)

 

[JB1981]

There was a really interesting video posted in the first fitness thread regarding squats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2JPn6gbKM

While I don't necessarily agree, it is important to recognize the potential downsides. Ultimately it comes down to making sure you have great form because a lot of these "essential" exercises can be (and often are, in the gym) easily messed up.

Why is this fucking guy standing shirtless w/ hard nipples and talking to the camera? Has this guy ever heard of progressive loading? What an asshole.

 

[justin12140]

Just realized I'm beyond advanced for press too, kick ass. (195x3)

where is this chart at? I remember looking at it months ago, but can no longer find it and I don't see it in the op

edit: nvm found it http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf. This chart should probably be put into the op

 

[ipukespiders]

Why is this fucking guy standing shirtless w/ hard nipples and talking to the camera? Has this guy ever heard of progressive loading? What an asshole.

I watched 15 seconds of that hat and couldn't take it anymore.

 

[Parch]

Goofy doofus does have some good points though. There are risks and squats are not necessary for general fitness goals.

I'm all for intensity and doing heavy sets with pretty much every exercise you choose, but age, fitness level, injury history and goals all factor into how far you should go. Are you really trying to be a pro bodybuilder or weightlifter? Nice gains and a high level of fitness can be obtained without the unnecessary risks. Good form doesn't always eliminate risks.

 

[Maxim726X]

where is this chart at? I remember looking at it months ago, but can no longer find it and I don't see it in the op

edit: nvm found it http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf. This chart should probably be put into the op

I was going to ask the same question... Interesting chart.

Damn, elite is hardcore. So I'd have to deadlift over 500 pounds? Well, gives me something to shoot for, I guess.

Who else is shooting for elite??

MA! PROTEIN! FUCK!

 

[Maxim726X]

Goofy doofus does have some good points though. There are risks and squats are not necessary for general fitness goals.

I'm all for intensity and doing heavy sets with pretty much every exercise you choose, but age, fitness level, injury history and goals all factor into how far you should go. Are you really trying to be a pro bodybuilder or weightlifter? Nice gains and a high level of fitness can be obtained without the unnecessary risks. Good form doesn't always eliminate risks.

Not always, but often.

And I could be mistaken, but I thought I've actually seen experimental evidence extolling the testosterone-boosting effect of squats. Can anyone back me up on this?

 

[Chichikov]

Goofy doofus does have some good points though. There are risks and squats are not necessary for general fitness goals.

I'm all for intensity and doing heavy sets with pretty much every exercise you choose, but age, fitness level, injury history and goals all factor into how far you should go. Are you really trying to be a pro bodybuilder or weightlifter? Nice gains and a high level of fitness can be obtained without the unnecessary risks. Good form doesn't always eliminate risks.

He's right that some people attribute magical powers to the squat.
He's wrong about the leg press machine, it's a bad alternative.

At that point, I couldn't stare at his nipples anymore, so I'll just say that in my opinion, there are few training regimes that cannot benefit from the addition of squats.

 

[Maxim726X]

He's right that some people attribute magical powers to the squat.
He's wrong about the leg press machine, it's a bad alternative.

At that point, I couldn't stare at his nipples anymore, so I'll just say that in my opinion, there are few training regimes that cannot benefit from the addition of squats.

Not saying that you're wrong- But is there any evidence to the contrary?

Again, I've been reading that squats do lead to a higher release of testosterone. Is this incorrect? Broscience?

 

[Chichikov]

Not saying that you're wrong- But is there any evidence to the contrary?

Again, I've been reading that squats do lead to a higher release of testosterone. Is this incorrect? Broscience?

All big compound lifts do.
Also, this is an area still not fully understood by science, yet somehow every dude who did 3 crossfit sessions gain complete knowledge of the hormonal mechanism that lead to muscle hypertrophy and its relation to physical activity.

 

[Price Dalton]

Not saying that you're wrong- But is there any evidence to the contrary?

Again, I've been reading that squats do lead to a higher release of testosterone. Is this incorrect? Broscience?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20803956 - squats increased T, but they didn't examine other exercises.

This study examined the acute hormonal responses to a single high power resistance exercise training session. Four weight trained men (X +/- SD; age [yrs] = 24.5 +/- 2.9; hgt [m] = 1.82 + 0.05; BM [kg] = 96.9 +/- 10.6; I RM barbell squat [kg] = 129.3 +/- 17.4) participated as subjects in two randomly ordered sessions. During the lifting session, serum samples were collected pre- and 5 min post-exercise, and later analyzed for testosterone (Tes), cortisol (Cort), their ratio (Tes/Cort), and lactate (HLa). The lifting protocol was 10 x 5 speed squats at 70% of system mass (1 RM +/- BW) with 2 min inter-set rest intervals. Mean power and velocity were determined for each repetition using an external dynamometer. On the control day, the procedures and times (1600-1900 hrs) were identical except the subjects did not lift. Tes and Cort were analyzed via EIA. Mean +/- SD power and velocity was 1377.1 +/- 9.6 W and 0.79 +/- 0.01 m .s-1 respectively for all repetitions, and did not decrease over the 10 sets (p < 0.05). Although not significant, post-exercise Tes exhibited a very large effect size (nmol x L-1 pre = 12.5 +/- 2.9, post = 20.0 +/- 3.9; Cohen's D = 1.27). No changes were observed for either Cort or the Tes/Cort ratio. HLa significantly increased post-exercise (mmol x L-1 ; pre = 1.00 +/- 0.09, post = 4.85 +/- 1.10). The exercise protocol resulted in no significant changes in Tes, Cort or the Tes/Cort ratio, although the Cohen's D value indicates a very large effect size for the Tes response. The acute increase for Tes is in agreement with previous reports that high power activities can elicit a Tes response. High power resistance exercise protocols such as the one used in the present study produce acute increases of Tes. These results indicate that high power resistance exercise can contribute to an anabolic hormonal response with this type of training, and may partially explain the muscle hypertrophy observed in athletes who routinely employ high power resistance exercise.

 

[MWS Natural]

Just realized I'm beyond advanced for press too, kick ass. (195x3)

Same. I want to get to elite level for all of those lifts but I'm pretty much only close on bench.

 

[muntersaur]

He's right that some people attribute magical powers to the squat.
He's wrong about the leg press machine, it's a bad alternative.

At that point, I couldn't stare at his nipples anymore, so I'll just say that in my opinion, there are few training regimes that cannot benefit from the addition of squats.

Squats are better for strength, functionality, general anabolism etc. but for specified quadricep and calf hypertrophy, the leg press is the way to go. I wish my gym had one.

 

[parrotbeak]

Been a week since I've been off SL5x5, and mainly been doing hill runs, stair runs, and a little lifting earlier in the week. Today was my long day at the gym. I dropped back to my work sets from 3 weeks ago and found that I was initially more explosive on squats but I almost didn't get out of the hole on the last rep of my first work set. That made me cut that at 2 sets and finish off with front squats at a lighter weight.

Then I just wanted to get out of the squat cage, so I did cable rows, chin ups and benched. Felt great on those and finished my bench 5x5 easily (again with weight from 3 weeks ago). I think doing cable rows first and chins in between bench sets made benching really easy.

Still have to figure out a program so I can gauge progress, but the hill runs are feeling good now that I'm getting used to them again.

I'm thinking I'll focus my lifting time at the gym on cable rows and presses, and just do the hill runs for legs and core. The hills where I'm running are really steep and go for miles so I won't ever not be challenged.

 

[MjFrancis]

Before you pick a program parrotbeak, you can always time/measure your hill runs. Most likely you will be able to carry over this sort of conditioning without any issues. It's unfortunate that your squats have suffered lately, but it's to be expected when you add conditioning into the mix.

I'm not squatting what I was at my peak, either, which I can attribute to increased deadlift volume, a 15 or so pound drop in weight from my Starting Strength peak, a higher volume of leg work, and like yourself, more conditioning. It was a necessity, and the end result is still a better squat with better form.

Squats are better for strength, functionality, general anabolism etc. but for specified quadricep and calf hypertrophy, the leg press is the way to go. I wish my gym had one.

You and Chichikov likely agree on many of those points, as do I. The leg press is great for specific muscle hypertrophy and aesthetic development. It's strength carryover is more muddled, though I would still support any use of it after squatting.

No one really has to barbell squat (save for powerlifters I suppose, lol) but for everyone else, it's never a bad idea. I would say that someone who can't or won't barbell squat, for whatever reason, could still yield benefits from bodyweight squats. Worries of spinal compression are alleviated (no matter how (un)founded these may be), and they improve a level of strength, endurance and flexibility to perform something so mundane as shitting in a third-world toilet. Performed for repetitions they may serve for a fantastic cardiovascular session.

 

[SeanR1221]

My problems with Squats (and somewhat deadlifts) is I always FEEL like I have really shitty form.

---

So burst capillaries...how do they work? I've noticed since I've been increasing my weight, I've gotten little red dots in the areas I worked the previous day. It was pretty bad on my back after upping my lateral pull-down and bent-over row weight. Almost looked like I had a rash.