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Former Valve employee says Steam was killing PC gaming, Epic Games is saving it
- Thread starter Shin
- Start date
KonradLaw
Member
Valve's cut is actually closer to 22% when you take into account the free keys devs can sell elsewhere.
Also.. if somebody cares only about developers' revenue then Epic's 12% is still pure robbery. Dude should be pushing for acceptance of buying directly from devs instead of from shady Epic.
Also.. if somebody cares only about developers' revenue then Epic's 12% is still pure robbery. Dude should be pushing for acceptance of buying directly from devs instead of from shady Epic.
manfestival
Member
Not sure how Epic is truly fixing this for all gamers.... they aren't exactly any better and just providing competition by strong arming. EGS isn't exactly some savior.
Though the guy does bring a fair point. Valve lost its way a while back and yeah probably steam was to blame. Artifact and Dota 2 were the last 2 games developed by valve.... and we never got Half like Episode 3 or 3.
Though the guy does bring a fair point. Valve lost its way a while back and yeah probably steam was to blame. Artifact and Dota 2 were the last 2 games developed by valve.... and we never got Half like Episode 3 or 3.
Gen.Grievous
Member
Well anyone that regularly uses steam knows this. It's not just a 30% take on every game. They take a big cut from every transaction in the marketplace.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
“Killing the industry” seems like a hyperbolic stretch.
I can see how the 30 percent cut could easily be undercut by competing platforms though. I’m not a business guy though. I just wish Steam had been able to meet devs in the middle and the separation could have maybe been avoided?
I can see how the 30 percent cut could easily be undercut by competing platforms though. I’m not a business guy though. I just wish Steam had been able to meet devs in the middle and the separation could have maybe been avoided?
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
So if you prefer that a storefront take a smaller cut of the profits.....you should just oppose the idea of a storefront altogether?
Sorry, this is easily the dumbest thing I’ve read all week.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Someone will be working at Epic soon. 
The problem of course is that Valve prevents you from selling the game cheaper on other stores. You can't open a store with a 15% cut and sell a $60 game for $50. The consumer doesn't care if the developer gets 15 or 30% if the price is $60 either way.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yet games are not cheaper on Epic. They are still the same $60 with %18 more profit. Even the exclusives.
This has been an industry strong arm tactic stores have been using since Gamestop at the dawn of digital stores for console games.
Sure.
My point is that the only realistic (non-regulatory) avenue of competing with Steam is to flat out buy exclusives like Epic is doing.
VectorVictor
Member
I have zero problems with Epic wanting to open an online gaming portal/store to capitalize on Fortnite's success and challenge Steam. Hell, we already have (for example):
However, I do have problems with a company like Epic that gets in bed with a Chinese company that is known to have passed sensitive information to Chinese government leadership and intelligence agencies and has little regard for government regulation and the law. This is something that should give all gamers pause, as any company that works with the Chinese government is ultimately beholden to the Chinese Government and its leadership.
Frankly, it wouldn't shock me to wake up tomorrow and read that the Epic Gamestore was a trojan horse for Chinese government-sponsored malware that spreads like wildfire and cripples our infrastructure in many different ways. Think WannaCry on an even bigger scale.
- EA and the Origin store
- CD Projek Red and GOG
However, I do have problems with a company like Epic that gets in bed with a Chinese company that is known to have passed sensitive information to Chinese government leadership and intelligence agencies and has little regard for government regulation and the law. This is something that should give all gamers pause, as any company that works with the Chinese government is ultimately beholden to the Chinese Government and its leadership.
Frankly, it wouldn't shock me to wake up tomorrow and read that the Epic Gamestore was a trojan horse for Chinese government-sponsored malware that spreads like wildfire and cripples our infrastructure in many different ways. Think WannaCry on an even bigger scale.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The thing is that they keep pulling the same bait and switch ("C'mon gamers if you do X we could lower the price by Y!!!!... wait you have done it... uhm... we said we could lower it, not that we would trolololololo....")... look at how digital downloads, cutting out the middle man, reducing the resale, cheap used copies issues would have freed up lots of profit margins to pass onto customers... hahaha...
Only to have some publishers justifying that they actually have higher prices than some retail shops because they are selling you the "convenience" of digital downloads... and here they go again.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Seriously. It has been a bait and switch for years with all the smoke they blow at us as consumers. Which is why I have no issues waiting for sales now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They should have used the Unreal Engine to build their store.
Sakura
Member
How is a 30% "tax" unsustainable? What do PSN etc charge? How does 30% compare to what they lose selling retail? More importantly why would any of this matter to the consumer? I don't care if the cut is 0% or 60% if the price I pay is the same. The only reason the Epic store takes a smaller cut is because it is a business opportunity. They think they can draw developers away from putting their games on Steam through the promise of more revenue, and as a result rake in some of that Steam money. It's not like they are taking a smaller cut because they think it is the right thing to do, or that 30% is unfair or anything.
Let's be real here. If they sold the game for $50 on the store with a 15% cut then they aren't making any more money than they would be selling it for $60 on the 30% cut store, killing the entire reason for developers to want to put the game on the store. I don't think Valve preventing you or not matters.
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TyphoonStruggle
Member
But without Steam where can I play quality games such as Border Control?
Honestly, I don't care about Steam v Epic. Please carry on.
Honestly, I don't care about Steam v Epic. Please carry on.
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Hudo
Member
I agree. I would even say that Valve needed this for a long time. They need to get their shit together again and start communicating with people. This is their biggest issue they have to solve IMHO: Communcation. They are hilariously bad at it, especially as a platform holder/service provider.
But I still maintain my utopian vision of decoupling the games you buy from the fucking stores you buy them from. I still don't see why they need to be tied to some store account. I want the store to fuck off after I have bought the game.
Holammer
Member
Richard's got a giant axe to grind with Valve, this is not the first time he talks smack about his former employer.
https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless-industry-politics/
https://www.pcgamer.com/ex-valve-employee-describes-ruthless-industry-politics/
ResilientBanana
Member
I kind of see what this guy is saying. If I sold $1,000,000 worth of a title I'd only see $700,000. That's bullshit.
daveonezero
Banned
There is nothing stopping Valve from changing payout and making these arguments pointless. Also Taxes are different as they are government enforced. You rarely see direct results or anything for this money and it is also compulsory.
Valve is giving you a store front and many other features for you game if they put it on their store. Its not a tax its a fee in exchange for the services valve offers. You are free to go somewhere else.
Valve is giving you a store front and many other features for you game if they put it on their store. Its not a tax its a fee in exchange for the services valve offers. You are free to go somewhere else.
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demigod
Member
You can sell it on your own store for full profit.
I think you are smart enough to realize that creating and running a game store for a dev studio to just sell their own games just isn't financially feasible.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
THIS.
Looking forward to reading from an Epic former employee to tell us the opposite, though.
KonradLaw
Member
If you care about devs themselves? Sure. 0% sure beats 12%. So if you prefer a smaller cut you should prefer direct sales over big storefronts.
demigod
Member
I think you are smart enough to know that its not financially feasible for Valve to open their store for free either.
KonradLaw
Member
Of course it is. That's how petite devs have been selling their games forever. And today it's even easier. because you don't need your own download service. You can generate Steam keys for free and then sell them directly. This way people get their games on Steam where they like it, while devs gets to keep 100% (well..minus transaction fees).
I overestimated you... Dumbest answer ever. Hyperbole after hyperbole.
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demigod
Member
About as dumb as your answer.
Fujan
Member
How much would you sell if you didn't have Steam as a platform though for millions of users to see your product?
I hope you realize that Valve has full control over that market? So no, a dev can't just go and sell his game exclusively like that. Valve monitors how many games are sold on Steam and how many keys are activated. They don't completely crack down on key selling outside Steam but they keep it in check so it doesn't hurt them in any significant way. Valve ditched automatic key generation like 2 years ago if I remember correctly so devs don't abuse this system anymore.
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ResilientBanana
Member
That's a fair question.
LittleBusters
Banned
Monopolies are never good.
KonradLaw
Member
Exclusivelly no, but large number of games do get sold this way. Enough that Valve's cut on average is actually closer to 22% than 30%.
Personally I sure hope Epic isn't imagining they could ever replace Steam, because that would be delussional. Steam will remain the biggest pcgaming store and Epic can only hope to carve out sustainable piece of the pie. In the end the result will be more fragmentation. But I don;'t think that's a bad thing. it's annoying, sure, but the more people learn to buy from multiple stores the better. And while there are plenty of people who buy from Steam only, there won't be many who buy "from Steam and Epic Store only". If Epic manages to convince people to look outside Steam those people will in most cases be willing to buy on different stores too.
Having so many launchers will suck, but in the end the more fragmentend the pcgaming market is the more resistant to damage it will become. I like Steam, but they've banned games like Cartagra and Kara no Shoujo, despite Steam version lacking any porn. If VN users wouldn't be already used to buying games directly from publishers those games woule be DOA. PCgaming market is too valuable and important to let it's fate be controlled by one company, even as pro-consumer one as Valve. It's also too imporant to let it be controlled by just two companies.
daveonezero
Banned
It wasn't a monopoly and there is noway for us to prove that. Digital stores have come and gone.
I think DRM is a big part of the question not being answered. Plus there is GOG where they sell DRM free games and the launcher isn't even necessary. Any developer could just put their game up on their store DRM free and it would be fine.
Kadayi
Banned
Don't ever make a console game then.