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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

Dina

Member
danwarb said:
lol, it's like you haven't played either of these game.

He also just admitted never playing one of them, ever. Guess what that makes of his opinion on anything besides bullshot comparison.

Because that's what missing in this thread, imo. GT5(P) looks better then Forza3 in general, even a blind man can see that, but that's only one side of the medallion. How does it actually drive? How is the careermode? The amount of options? Multiplayer options and playability? Does GT5 have the equivalent of the F3 storefront? Because if, after so many years of development, GT5 only moves the genre forward with its graphics, then I weep for the genre as a whole.
 
Interfectum said:
Has Che posted since the demo went up?

ay28ow.jpg

There's an event called TGS.
 

DeadGzuz

Banned
kodt said:
Wouldn't true 1080p be the game is rendered an displayed at 1080p.

False would be the game is rendered at something less than 1080p and then upscaled to display at 1080p.

GT5 is 1280x1080, so it has the higher res where it is needed. The only thing scaled is the horizontal.
 

eso76

Member
theignoramus said:
Feel free to name the games with equally misleading bullshots.

wipeout hd :) but afaik, they were never used to advertise the game.


Also, for people claiming fm3 trailers were moving bullshots.. That's only partially true. I have seen every single trailer and already noticed the difference between 'racing bits' (which are *exactly* the same as actual replays) and car closeups, which used high lod models from menu and home space.
Just couldn't tell the difference was this huge.

And the point is you normally couldn't tell during normal replays: they look absolutely fine since the camera always keeps a reasonable distance.

had T10 not included those closeup cameras you can switch to during replays,people wouldn't be complaining, unfortunately they did.
 
So do the cars in the demo look like the dozens and dozens of photomode shots?
Someone compare a bullshoted car with the same version that is in the demo.
Should be easy enough.
 

Zezboob

Member
theignoramus said:
Then why do the cars from the demo footage have blacked out interiors?
It probably depends on the distance, affecting the LOD. I am sure that I saw the interiors of the other cars at some moments.
Maybe the distance is a bit different from the photoshop mode. I didn't bother to make close comparison like I said.

But we are far from the conspiracy of the terrible lies from Che.

theignoramus said:
The races also start with the High LOD model.
Well, the camera is making close-ups so...

Did you really get how LOD works ?
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
Oh please people 1080p is 1920x1080p period, the only place this isn't the case is Sony land here on neogaf, do you people live in a vacuum or what?!?!?!?
 

Firewire

Banned
Dina said:
He also just admitted never playing one of them, ever. Guess what that makes of his opinion on anything besides bullshot comparison.

Because that's what missing in this thread, imo. GT5(P) looks better then Forza3 in general, even a blind man can see that, but that's only one side of the medallion. How does it actually drive? How is the careermode? The amount of options? Multiplayer options and playability? Does GT5 have the equivalent of the F3 storefront? Because if, after so many years of development, GT5 only moves the genre forward with its graphics, then I weep for the genre as a whole.

Ok I'll tackle this..

a) It drives great!
b) Career mode is awesome as always!
c) The options are there and PD said they will be expanded for GT5.
d) Well GT5 has up to 16 player online racing with both voice & text chat and private rooms, and it performs great.
e) Does F3 have anything like GT TV? Does F3 have You Tube uploading of your career/online races? http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/gallery/d4323n2.html
 
m0dus said:
look at it this way,

if he went out and bought a TV advertised as "1080p" but when he got home he discovered, to his surprise, the ACTUAL pixel resolution is 1280 x 1080 and not 1920 x 1080, would he want his money back? :)

To throw the question back at you, would that still somehow be better than a TV outputting at 720p? ;-)

FLAME ON
There's a difference between your display being 1280x1080 and a video game being 1280x1080 native. If your TV was just 1280x1080, a 16:9 1920x1080 video would be scaled down to 1280x720 (commonly called 720p), leaving 360 unused lines (black bars). Not only this, but if the TV was in the same physical width:height ratio as most other new TVs nowadays (widescreen or 16:9), then the pixels would be much wider than current TVs and everything would look stretched, like you're fitting 4:3 content onto a 16:9 screen.

GT5 (and other games with different aspect ratios, such as KZ2 @ 960x1080 in 1080i mode) use a horizontal scaler to scale the entire frame until it fills a 1920x1080 screen. The video is meant to be displayed in this way, so it doesn't look deformed or stretched. If you were to actually view it in 1280x1080 it would look squished, but because they know they're going to scale it to 1920 pixels wide, it looks okay that way.
 
So do the cars in the demo look like the dozens and dozens of photomode shots?
Someone compare a bullshotted car with the same version that is in the demo.
Should be easy enough. Doesnt look that way to me, but I dont have the demo yet, so I dunno for sure.
 

jett

D-Member
Firewire said:
Ok I'll tackle this..
e) Does F3 have anything like GT TV?

You know, I had forgotten about this. GT5P also has this incredibly beautiful full-HD footage that introduces real-life courses, and tells some of their history. It's all professionally shot, just like their GTTV material. In terms of presentation and production values GT5 can't be beaten.

In terms of features it's still up in the air, but some things GT5 has that F3 doesn't is Rally racing(with official WRC license), NASCAR and F1 cars.

Features Forza 3 has that haven't been shown in GT5 is a livery editor(although this was promised years ago, who knows if it will make it in) and the rewind option. Somebody correct if I'm missing something.

In terms of damange, Forza's cars have deformable damage models, but they don't seem to be as destructible as the racing cars in GT5, with doors and hoods flying off. On the flipside, it seems production cars in GT5 only get scraped and scratched.

Online mode in GT5P is complete garbage and just a general embarrassment. Going by the latest feature list in the GT5 website it seems this is being remedied.
 
Firewire said:
Ok I'll tackle this..

a) It drives great!
b) Career mode is awesome as always!
c) The options are there and PD said they will be expanded for GT5.
d) Well GT5 has up to 16 player online racing with both voice & text chat and private rooms, and it performs great.
e) Does F3 have anything like GT TV? Does F3 have You Tube uploading of your career/online races? http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/gallery/d4323n2.html

In addition to programming on GT TV, can you watch random races live and those of your friends? 360 first party racers have had that since launch with PGR3. I'm pretty sure FM2 carried on the tradition but I may be wrong.
 

Dina

Member
Firewire said:
Ok I'll tackle this..

a) It drives great!
b) Career mode is awesome as always!
c) The options are there and PD said they will be expanded for GT5.
d) Well GT5 has up to 16 player online racing with both voice & text chat and private rooms, and it performs great.
e) Does F3 have anything like GT TV? Does F3 have You Tube uploading of your career/online races? http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/gallery/d4323n2.html

I'll intercept this.

a) Good to hear and I agree, but once again so does F3. There is of course, a ceiling in this regard.
b) This I am unsure about, but has careermode been changed from earlier GT's? Because F3's certainly has.
c) Check.
d) F3 is in the same boat, biggest difference being 8 vs 16 players. Not sure whether 8 players more is actually a good thing, but the option is of course welcome. F3 does have more gamemodes (cat n mouse being on of them), but they are 'just for fun'. Might not sit well with the simulation crowd.
e) Video's, no I don't think so. You can save and share replays through Xbox Live, but not upload them to Youtube. Which is a sore miss now that I think about it. Does have picture upload though, but video is always better. The FM3 Storefront is a very strong point, though. I'm certainly not alone by spending hours and hours in the FM3 livery editor and sharing those online.

edit: according to LordPhoque, I'm wrong. Google came up nothing, but I can (and maybe am?) be very wrong here.

And this is actually my point. Both games are so alike, yet manage to offer very distinct experiences. GT5 is arguably the 'drivers' game, while FM3 is a more rounded out game, appealing to the casual, painter, tuner or funloving crowd. You really can't miss playing either one of them though, yet all this thread does is convince the other, unconvincable party that their game is crap and that they should convert to the other side.
 

Zezboob

Member
theignoramus said:
the High LOD models arent used when looking at the car from the exact same distance in a replay.
Wait, how did you manage to move the camera freely during the replay on the demo ? (serious question, I searched but couldn't find it)
Even the predetermined points of view don't allow to really compare IIRC.


LordPhoque said:
And yes FM3 replays can be uploaded on the web.
Only clips of 30 seconds IIRC :(
But in 720p.

But a Youtube option too, without duration limitation, would be nice too.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
theignoramus said:
Once again, during gameplay, do the vehicles in the demo retain the level of detail seen in the overwhelming majority of the photomode shots?


stop repeating yourself and
read.the.fing.thread.
 

ghibli99

Member
Had to come in just to throw in my $.02 that the .gif in the OP almost made me shoot coffee out of my nose. I have no interest in comparing the two games (I know which one I'm buying), but damn, those SLS AMG shots are ridiculous!
 

eso76

Member
theignoramus said:
Once again, during gameplay, do the vehicles in the demo retain the level of detail seen in the overwhelming majority of the photomode shots?

are you trying to rub it in or you honestly didn't understand that's what's being discussed in the last 10 pages ? :)

No, they don't. if i had to take a guestimate i'd say it's like TEN TIMES LESS,:p


Someone should photoshop a picture of Dan Greenwalt claiming
"TEN TIMES THE POLYGONS ! 4 TIMES THE TEXTURE RESOLUTION !! ***"



*** only in photomode
 
Dina said:
e) Video's, no I don't think so. You can save and share replays through Xbox Live, but not upload them to Youtube. Which is a sore miss now that I think about it. Does have picture upload though, but video is always better. The FM3 Storefront is a very strong point, though. I'm certainly not alone by spending hours and hours in the FM3 livery editor and sharing those online.

You can definitely export 720p clips. That's why the FM3 LE comes with a thumb drive.
 
eso76 said:
are you trying to rub it in or you honestly didn't understand that's what's being discussed in the last 10 pages ? :)

No, they don't. if i had to take a guestimate i'd say it's like TEN TIMES LESS,:p


Someone should photoshop a picture of Dan Greenwalt claiming
"TEN TIMES THE POLYGONS ! 4 TIMES THE TEXTURE RESOLUTION !! ***"



*** only in photomode
No, I am arguing with Zezboob, who is defending Chespace with the argument that the menu models are different from the gameplay models, but the photomode models are not different from the gameplay models, so Chespace didnt mislead anyone.
His argument is a photomode shot that shows a model with the lower LOD.
 

adelante

Member
Atrophis said:
Whats going on with those GT5 shots? They look worse than Prologue.
I thought those look pretty darn good....


So I'm assuming, if the FM3 demo is any indication, that gameplay and replays share the same low fidelity car models but photomode's a separate um, mode where we can place higher LOD cars anywhere in a track??


Oh Che.... :lol
 

Interfectum

Member
theignoramus said:
Once again, during gameplay, do the vehicles in the demo retain the level of detail seen in the overwhelming majority of the photomode shots?

Why are Forza fans ignoring this guy

Taking cues from Che?
 

Atrophis

Member
Seems like theres some aspect of the lighting system turned off and the car paint doesnt seem to look as realistic as it usually does. The red version seems overly bright.
 
adelante said:
I thought those look pretty darn good....


So I'm assuming, if the FM3 demo is any indication, that gameplay and replays have the same low fidelity car models but photomode's a separate um, mode where we can place higher LOD cars anywhere in a track??


Oh Che.... :lol
I've spent the last two fucking pages arguing with someone who attacked me for assuming that the photomode shots (and not just the menu cars) were the vehicles with the High LOD. I've tried to get to the bottom of it, and yeah, that does seem like the case.
 

Metalic Sand

who is Emo-Beas?
With GT5 having youtube uploads, Did they ever fix it to where it could HD upload(From Ps3) instead of real low quality videos. I made a pixel junk monsters youtube vid from the PS3 and its really bad by FRAPS standards computer wise.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
You can definitely export 720p clips. That's why the FM3 LE comes with a thumb drive.
Exported video is only through FM.net, the usb dongle is useless for exporting anything as the 360 will not allow it.
 

G Rom

Member
Pure digital (4:2:2) direct feed on both platform to be as fair as possible.
Lossless PNG (click on thumbnails).
Have fun!

PS: We love both games here at TXGM…


3953881104_3471bfeb3e_o.png


3953881244_b2ca7ba52b_o.png


















 

Firewire

Banned
Atrophis said:
Seems like theres some aspect of the lighting system turned off and the car paint doesnt seem to look as realistic as it usually does. The red version seems overly bright.

Don't think so, looks great to me. The paint seems realistic to me, the brightness seems to match up with some Mercedes pics of their cars in that color. I can only find one but its small but seems identical.
 

Zezboob

Member
theignoramus said:
No, I am arguing with Zezboob, who is defending Chespace with the argument that the menu models are different from the gameplay models, but the photomode models are not different from the gameplay models, so Chespace didnt mislead anyone.
His argument is a photomode shot that shows a model with the lower LOD.
Wow wow.

I am not really defending anyone or the game.

Again, read the first post I answered, you asked if there is any explanation for the drop in quality, I just answered.

Like I said, I didn't compare the distance, and all the detail from the demo and the shots from Che, maybe the distance for losing details in photomode is longer than ingame.

Just that you were overreacting, like Che would have said a terrible lie. Seriously you should take it easy and not get caught in the heat of the thread.
 

Firewire

Banned
Metalic Sand said:
With GT5 having youtube uploads, Did they ever fix it to where it could HD upload(From Ps3) instead of real low quality videos. I made a pixel junk monsters youtube vid from the PS3 and its really bad by FRAPS standards computer wise.

GT5 and well every game that has this feature does it differently. For GT5 its a HD upload, not sure about the size but it does say "races".
 

Zezboob

Member
theignoramus said:
I've spent the last two fucking pages arguing with someone who attacked me for assuming that the photomode shots (and not just the menu cars) were the vehicles with the High LOD. I've tried to get to the bottom of it, and yeah, that does seem like the case.
Oh wow. Ok now I get it.

Bail out. Have fun guys. ;)
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
G Rom said:
Pure digital (4:2:2) direct feed on both platform to be as fair as possible.
Lossless PNG (click on thumbnails).
Have fun!

PS: We love both games here at TXGM…

How about some gameplay shots please.
 
So I decided to throw prologue in last night and run a few laps to compare to Forza III demo. Gotta say, Forza just "feels" more realistic to me. I forgot just how clinical GT5:p's presentation is. If the two games were top gun characters Forza would be Maverick and prologue would be Iceman.
 

imtehman

Banned
So yea i just finished playing through a few hours of both the forza demo and GT5:p that i rented.

disclaimer: This is by no means a comprehensive analysis. All impressions are from actual gameplay and not replay mode, photo mode etc.

- Both have great car models, but GT's is more detailed. There's aliasing issues on both sides, but GT5:p jaggies stand out way more.

-Lighting is night/day better on GT5:p than Forza 3. Going in a tunnel and then seeing the light outside as it changes when you come out of the tunnel is pretty awesome.

-Environments is night/day better on Forza 3 than GT5:p. In eiger normand, pop ups from pedestrians was pretty bad. You would look off into the distance and expect to see a big green hill, only by the time you get there there's actually people there

-GT5's style to make insanely detailed car models makes the bad environments stand out, as i was playing it i sometimes get the feeling the cars are just floating in the game and not really look like i'm actually racing on the track because of the differences, especially in the case with the London track. In contrast, the mesh between environment and cars in Forza 3 seem perfect, both look great and i feel more immersed in my driving experience than GT5:p

-The 16 cars which i thought was a huge advantage that GT5 has been negated by the fact that these cars don't seem to be competitively racing, they were spread at 20-30 feet intervals as if they were in a rail. In Forza 3 these guys are crashing with each other as they try to get ahead, with no cars lagging behind unless one took a big hit and with simulated damage on is left dragging thier feet with a beat up car.

-Cockpit view is more detailed in GT5 than Forza 3.

There are some things i won't mention like physics and damage since PD already said they are going to implement it in the final version, so it would be unfair to judge the two.

But as it stands now, if i were to take what i saw in Forza 3 demo vs. GT5:p its no competition that i'd pick forza everytime.
 

Interfectum

Member
G Rom said:
Pure digital (4:2:2) direct feed on both platform to be as fair as possible.
Lossless PNG (click on thumbnails).
Have fun!

PS: We love both games here at TXGM…

Not to be rude but that's a fairly useless comparison not related to the fidelity of gameplay models in any way.

I don't think anyone is arguing over the menu screen models - either game can render cars how it wants in that mode.

What we want to see is a 720p in game comparison of models.

Cockpit view if you can with other cars in the shot.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
G Rom said:
Pure digital (4:2:2) direct feed on both platform to be as fair as possible.
Lossless PNG (click on thumbnails).
Have fun!

PS: We love both games here at TXGM…

Needs to be bolded. This fall/spring is going to be nirvana for console racing fans. Great captures BTW! :D
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
SuperEnemyCrab said:
So I decided to throw prologue in last night and run a few laps to compare to Forza III demo. Gotta say, Forza just "feels" more realistic to me. I forgot just how clinical GT5:p's presentation is. If the two games were top gun characters Forza would be Maverick and prologue would be Iceman.

Good thing that Prologue is just that, a Prologue and doesn't even represent 10% of the final product.

Things are getting kind of sad now.

:lol
 
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