Yeah, and Mario Kart slides if you trip over a banana, so what? Canned effect Vs simulation.
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Forza 7, GT Sport, Project Cars 2. What are the biggest differences?
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Heh
I just realized, no idea how I missed it, that GTS only has 6 real tracks?!!!
Wat??
thelastword
Banned
Yes, because they have'nt had the best effects in every iteration of the series against the competiton? Also, it's like we've not seen any of the effects I have spoken of in GTS? Amirite?
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
It definitely did. With the MS Wireless Wheel, at least.
All that matters is the result. Who gives a shit how it gets there.
No?
There are other racers with better rain, asphalt, dirt, and snow physics/effects.
Are you limiting the "competition" to like one racing game?
A lot of us play racers across all hardware.
ethomaz
Banned
Ohhhh made I mistake... sorry.
Snow is confirmed for tracks in places has have snow (duh). GTS features all weathers depending of the track location.
It is just not changed dynamic during a race.
My bad, why simulate anything when you can get the same result using canned effects!
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Every game uses tricks to get around having to actually simulate the real world. Some are just more efficient at it at the expense of lists that enthusiasts can drool over.
It's the same stupid argument as when people pick on things like Uncharted for using "cheap tricks" to achieve its IQ. It looks fucking great, that's all the matters.
And besides, who's going to notice an inch or two of realistic precision when the frame rate is as janky as all hell.
Is this known for sure?
Would be awesome if so it's the version I am going with on xbx X
Simulations are not tricks. Simulations are what simulators use to try mimicking real life.
And I do notice, because FFB is affected by whatever happens to the tyre.
I was guessing about GTS, but yeah, PC2 is confirmed.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
It's confirmed for GTS as well. PD been working on HDR for about 4 years or something.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Did you play Project Cars on your PS4 with a controller?
(I'm mostly poking fun, but if they haven't used the sorts of effects you're hoping will be the new industry par to promote the game, it's not a great sign. Blind hope sometimes ends up living up to results, but it goes beyond silly to bring it up as a counterpoint to people talking about what we've seen and played ourselves.)
TylerDurden4321
Member
Forza's puddle physics FFB is canned too, just way more sophisticated. If you don't model the suspension and steering arms and base the FFB on physical interaction of that, then you're not feeling what the driver of the irl real car should be feeling.
Non-canned feels so(!) much better... even on our current 5Nm bad stall-force and linearity toy wheels.
If we could have ray-traced graphics, even with a an less than ideal number of rays over the current methods and both would run the same, nobody would want the canned graphics.
seattle6418
Member
Same thing was said about the tracks on the weather widget for GT5 Prologue. They haven´t gotten around that yet, 10 years later.
Their tracks record for DLC is not very good. People just have to accept that they are slow and meticulous to produce content, it´s not like they are holding back content just for the sake of holding content.
Anything more than a couple of dozen cars and three to fours tracks is a stretch. And don´t forget that in the DLC there´s also scapes and vision GT cars that are not ready.
Well, personal taste. Other than communicating traction getting lost i really didn´t missed much feedback wise after downloading some settings like in the same week the game came out.
I never changed the individual settings on each car for FFB, i might be missing something, but i already have a basic wheel (G25) and i kind of like the "heavy" feel that they had in Pcars1.
I like the FFB in AC, but sometimes it feels too light IMO.
You´re completely missing the point. Dynamic weather is something relatively new for Racing Simulators.
It doesnt really matter how it was presented in PGR, Mario Kart or whatever because none of those games were simulating anything.
In Forza 6 the puddles are pre baked and they have the same effect every time you go through them. It´s not simulating anything, it´s just an effect.
It´s a huge feature in Pcars 2 because most of the so called "hardcore" sims don´t have this, some of them don´t even have weather at all.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Funnily enough, I was having a discussion about a similar topic with a F1 simulator engineer sometime at the beginning of the year.
They employ these "tricks" in a lot of areas of the simulation because a 1:1 physics simulation rarely correlates well with the reality of what the driver feels and the performance. Their opinion is that they don't care how they get to that point, they just want good results.
The way he put it was that you might think it's 100% science, but a large part of it is art.
ethomaz
Banned
Both controller and whell.
Nice! thanks
TylerDurden4321
Member
I don't believe you, or name such a "trick".
F1 simulators run very high physics rates, physical model suspensions and powerful direct-drive wheels. Nothing needs to be canned, they feel through the wheel what they would feel through the wheel of their car as well.
The motion rig on the other hand, yea, that uses some effects to give the impression of yaw-acceleration and lateral Gs, that's true.
Edit: Simulator engine used to be rFactor Pro until 2012 for all F1 teams and probably still is, but not 100% certain. Don't know what "art" your F1-guy can infuse in that engine. Sounds like it would need to rewrite the code of the engine.
soundscream
Member
I had that same wheel at the time, and to say the hydroplaning effect was represented the way it is in FM6 is just incorrect.
Maintenance
Member
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Well if you're just going to say you don't believe me then there's zero point in continuing to have a conversation. Believe what you want.
brickarts295
Member
If anything I think GTS has the best UI of the bunch.
Wouldn't he be a McLaren-Honda engineer, by any chance? Now that would explain a lot.
What you are calling tricks is so wide you can't be wrong, can you? Simulators use abstractions and simplify reality to a manegeable point. If that's what you are talking about now, yes, simulators use tricks. If by tricks you are talking about canning whole interactions such as hydroplanning or puddle interaction, then no, simulators, so much less real F1 simulators, don't use tricks.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
No it wasn't. I've interacted with a few teams for work, but that one in particular is known for its simulator work.
Of course, you're right, but it was a funny thing to explicitly point out if the minutiae is equivalent to a 1:1 physics representation.
It's frankly amazing.
GHG
Member
Project Cars 2 is the only game I'm definitely getting.
The other two are wait and see. I'm not sure about GT from a content and netcode perspective and if Forza is more of the dash to the front through 20 crazy unhinged AI cars within 2 laps for 100+ races then count me out. Oh and it remains to be seen if the "dynamic" TOD/Weather are truly dynamic.
Also the DLC in GT looks like they are taking a leaf out of the Forza DLC model...
The other two are wait and see. I'm not sure about GT from a content and netcode perspective and if Forza is more of the dash to the front through 20 crazy unhinged AI cars within 2 laps for 100+ races then count me out. Oh and it remains to be seen if the "dynamic" TOD/Weather are truly dynamic.
Also the DLC in GT looks like they are taking a leaf out of the Forza DLC model...
Christocolus
Member
Lol
thelastword
Banned
This is not blind hope, it's precedent along with details already seen. You mean to tell me, you have not seen the smoke or dirt or dust plumes from GTS? The fact that we have seen dirt/snow toggle descriptions for brands hatch, heavy wet/racing soft tires in the options menu means nothing to you?.....So you're just going to keep on breaking those sticks in your ears....It's not like I gave you nothing. GTS will have weather, it will have destruction, it will have dirt tracks and snow.....I'm not just saying that out of thin air as you're suggesting...
(I'm mostly poking fun, but if they haven't used the sorts of effects you're hoping will be the new industry par to promote the game, it's not a great sign. Blind hope sometimes ends up living up to results, but it goes beyond silly to bring it up as a counterpoint to people talking about what we've seen and played ourselves.)
I compare consoles since they've always led the charge with console graphics for a minute, but feel free to show me better effects from whatever platform you deem against what we've seen of GTS...The only contender I can see is DC from the same platform tbh...but I'm sure you have something in mind
Graphics Horse
Member
What the heck are you talking about?
Maintenance
Member
I pointed out rain and snow. Neither has been shown for GTS, but you're insisting both are the best of the genre. I'm sorry your overview is what it is. As I said before, I'm happy to recognize either being quite good when reality convenes with what you think is true.
ethomaz
Banned
In the beta the Brands Hatch track has options to snow and dirt... it was disabled for the Beta but the menu option exists.
You can choose to play this track with snow or dirt in GTS.
You can choose these options for this track... the Beta already has them on menu options.
Another point about simulation.
At the moment, it seems that Forza is the only game that will simulate driveline flex on a physical and audio level.
For a real life point of reference:
https://youtu.be/ddZELAk1BF0?t=58
At the moment, it seems that Forza is the only game that will simulate driveline flex on a physical and audio level.
For a real life point of reference:
https://youtu.be/ddZELAk1BF0?t=58
Graphics Horse
Member
I haven't seen this option in the footage, is it in the course condition menu?
I've seen you can choose between 2 layouts and different TOD, if there was a rallycross track it would be a third layout chosen separately.
sems4arsenal
Member
Pretty sure this is not true.
Risk Breaker
Member
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Saved the rest of us who watch real-world racing the trouble. Thank you.
I compare consoles since they've always led the charge with console graphics for a minute, but feel free to show me better effects from whatever platform you deem against what we've seen of GTS...The only contender I can see is DC from the same platform tbh...but I'm sure you have something in mind
Well, DC does better than anything in GT effects wise to this point...so you sort of proved my point for me.
However, you think GT has better dirt simulation/physics than dedicated offroad sims?
..of course you're going to pull console only out now. There are racers on more than a couple pieces of hardware my friend.
Broaden your horizons.
I'm curious, what other racers have you played with snow....for example...?
ethomaz
Banned
It is true... I had the Beta.
Yes it is in the TOD conditions but in Beta it showed disabled (you can't choose them)... pretty sure it is for the final game.
seattle6418
Member
Maybe my sarcasm detector is broken, but everyone knows a 360 spin is possible, however, none of the situations linked are remotely close to the Forza gif.
He spins for no reason, doesn´t lose a lot of speed, downshifts from 5th to 1st mid spin and it doesn´t look like the person is braking at all, which is the most important thing that happens in real life.
I just tried Apex one more time and i honestly´t know how can anyone non biased can give any credit to Forza´s physics system.
It spun because the front left tire hydroplaned after hitting the puddle on the apex. The shifting is due to braking (had transmission set to auto).
To PCars 2's credit, with a much smaller car list it does cover a lot of territory as far as variety goes, much more than GT Sport anyway. Forza 7 will include most of the cars/car-types as in PCars 2 and also has Formula E, Nascar and ovals, V8 Supercars/Supercars Championship, trucks, and then you have SUV's and 4WD's and all the other random car types and I think Forza is hard to beat.
It's bizarre they haven't shown any rain/weather variations in GT Sport yet. Hopefully we see more at Gamescom.
GT Sport : simulation targeting realism physically while keeping it accessible to wider audience (meaning 100% playable with a gamepad)
Forza 7 : simulation targeting realism sensorially while keeping it accessible to wider audience.
Project Cars : simulation targeting realism physically without compromise and no superficial FFB effects to make the steering wheel behavior as authentic as possible.
Assetto Corsa, Raceroom, iRacing, Automobilista, rFactor 2 : simulation targeting realism physically without compromise but with superficial FFB effects to make the experience more immersive.
The best on console so far : Assetto Corsa
The best period : Raceroom Racing Experience
Forza 7 : simulation targeting realism sensorially while keeping it accessible to wider audience.
Project Cars : simulation targeting realism physically without compromise and no superficial FFB effects to make the steering wheel behavior as authentic as possible.
Assetto Corsa, Raceroom, iRacing, Automobilista, rFactor 2 : simulation targeting realism physically without compromise but with superficial FFB effects to make the experience more immersive.
The best on console so far : Assetto Corsa
The best period : Raceroom Racing Experience
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
165mph to 75mph is hardly losing any speed now.
Jlawokay.gif
Pensé;246575918 said:
Is this the new "cars look like plastic" even though the material a car is made of has no bearing on its appearance after painting argument?
You must not know the race conditions that is from or the video.
I honestly don't believe you.
Next time turn all assists off and don't drive an 80hp car on a dry track for your test.