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[bluemax]

...

 

[Amir0x]

Collecting in and of itself doesn't suck, it's the implementation of it. The problem with collecting in a lot of platformers is there's either no real reason for it or you need to do it for a stupid plot reason, collect 15 X to advance plot. Now, what it sounds like is in this new Banjo actually sounds cool. They seem to be taking the Crackdown approach, which also had collecting but people seem to universally love. The reason it works in Crackdown is each Orb had a small but tangible effect on your skills, there was an immediate gain from collecting. I can see this coming into to play with Banjo when you stumble across some cool new part, there is the immediate reward for getting the item.

The actual problem with collecting is that it is "busy work." In most cases even if there is an actual reason to collect - to unlock new levels, for example - it is exceedingly boring and tedious to actual get every piece or cranny you want. It's lazy game design, because instead of creating extensive individualized gameplay challenges - which take more time, and add more variety - you can litter levels with debris in any order you like and create your next boring goal.

 

[Nolan.]

My comments are pretty substantiated!

1. Banjo sucks. Substantiated by the fact that Banjo sucks.
2. Collecting to the extreme. Substatiated by the fact that this new game has you collecting an obscene amount of machine parts.
3. Large focus on VEHICLES, when I'm pretty sure most people who actually liked that crap franchise wanted large focus on platforming. Sure we don't know what the split is yet, but it's pretty telling that this vehicle mechanic is the center focus of most media and details. Substantiated by this Solidsnakex post.

Just out of interest if anyone else that wasn't a mod said stuff like that just like that would they be banned.? Mainly because I don't know where the lines are anymore. Especially with since the other thread.

 

[Sharp]

This Guitar Hero news really sucks for reasons I can not disclose :/

Wait what? Are you sure you can't disclose them?

 

[pswii60]

Amir0x, stop being so arrogant

And from the other thread:

Banjo:
- Building vehicles is basically like playing with LEGO. You can <i>always</i> jump in and out of the vehicle editor and come right back to the game with the new design.
- Parts are easily placed and moved around. You don't have to worry about connecting the motor with the wheels for example. Just place everything so they stick together and don't get in the way.
- Vehicle designs can play a large role in missions. We saw one where you had to collect coconuts from a field and got a small truck that could suck them up. Unfortunately you couldn't fit all the coconuts in the truck and had to back and deliver them in a large barrel. We were then shown how you could create a helicopter with a hook, that could pick up this large barrel, fly to the coconut field and fly low to scoop the coconuts in the barrel.
- Physics are awesome in this game and everywhere! With one design I placed the foot-in-a-box weapon behind a propella, and when I tried to use it, the foot/boot couldn't get past the propella... well, until I used it enough times to actually kick the propella off the vehicle!
- Pixel art... imagine the possibilities (Rare already had an example of this, paying homage to a certain plumber)
- Multiplayer is great fun with the ability to either chose from pre-fabricated or own vehicle designs. It still needs some polish here and there, but showed great promise.

VP2:
- I will only touch on one feature here, as GI already touched on many of the more traditional improvements. This feature is extremely cool though, in two ways.
1. VP2 uses the Vision Camera in combination with physical cards sorta like Eye of Judgement. It basically scans a small code on the card, when it's being held up in front of the camera, and this can both insert custom designed pinatas, unlock buildings or abilities, change the weather and many other things. We were told how Rare had designed a moose that got a big, red nose only around christmas time... and this could be passed around with these cards.
2. So the game also got a photo mode. Cool, but that's not the best! This photo mode is able to interpret the pictures and create the above-mentioned code based on the picture. Basically, you will have a card generator available on the internet! Imagine this: you have created this really cool pinata and instead of the tiresome task of sending it only to selected friends on Live, you can take a picture of it, get the code/card generated and share it on a forum. Instantly everyone will be able to get the pinata in their game and since the camera can also read from LCD screens, ipods, zunes etc., there is little to no hassle. Now THAT'S sharing!

 

[Amir0x]

Just out of interest if anyone else that wasn't a mod said stuff like that just like that would they be banned.? Mainly because I don't know where the lines are anymore. Especially with since the other thread.

Absolutely fucking not. Why would I ban someone for stating outright

1. An opinion of a game's quality
2. BACKING up why they have a feeling about the game they're criticizing

Hello, people only get banned when they DON'T back up what they're saying. Most people get angry at the verbosity and hyperbole, but that's their problem. No need to dance around the truth.

 

[Crushed]

The actual problem with collecting is that it is "busy work." In most cases even if there is an actual reason to collect - to unlock new levels, for example - it is exceedingly boring and tedious to actual get every piece or cranny you want. It's lazy game design, because instead of creating extensive individualized gameplay challenges - which take more time, and add more variety - you can litter levels with debris in any order you like and create your next boring goal.

Why on Earth does collecting not count as "extensive individualized gameplay challenges"? Why are do they take more time and add more variety? Why do you use loaded language by making the assumption that collection = "littering levels with debris in any order you like" or that all goals must be "boring?"

2. BACKING up why they have a feeling about the game they're criticizing

"Banjo sucks because Banjo sucks."
"I will now assume that all disagreement can be explained by pop psychology I have produced from no evidence."

 

[TheGreatDave]

If they don't provide backwards compatibility I'm going to be fucking pissed, and so will the seven million plus people who bought GH3, and the additional millions who bought GH1, 2, and '80s. And the unfortunate souls who will be buying Aerosmith. When you've built up a fanbase like this around expensive peripherals, you don't fuck around with them. At least not if you're smart. Then again, this would be the same Activision that thought that boss battle were totally wicked so who knows.

Boss Battles are totally wicked

They were just maybe a little too hard.

 

[Amir0x]

Why on Earth does collecting not count as "extensive individualized gameplay challenges"? Why are do they take more time and add more variety? Why do you use loaded language by making the assumption that collection = "littering levels with debris in any order you like" or that all goals must be "boring?"

All collecting goals are boring. To me.

You may not find them so, but again I'm obviously posting my opinions not yours.

"Banjo sucks because Banjo sucks."

This is a thread about the sequel, I've detailed to great effect the various issues I have with Banjo series lackluster level design, collecting bullshit, and other likewise faults.

 

[Crushed]

I'm obviously posting my opinions not yours.

Yeah you would never tell someone what their opinions or motivat

you're butthurt that someone is assaulting one of your cherished childhood franchises borne out of the years you were deprived as a youngster from superior videogame systems

 

[Amir0x]

i didn't tell you what your opinions are. Your opinions are your own. Opinion != motivation.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I hope SolidSnakex posts more about this feature, but I'd have to imagine the justification for it is that it's going to use a library of sounds that are on the game disc itself, as opposed to allowing users to just upload music files and charting them that way.

Here's what they say

But the real possibilities begin to open up in the Advanced Studio mode, a full recording toolset that rivals such computer programs as Apple's popular Garage Band software. In this mode, you have total freedom to write, arrange, and record songs as you see fit. A vertically scrolling grid shows the song's various tracks, rhythm, lead, melody, bass, and drums. You can craft your song by recording live playing (with a little help from the game, which automatically "quanitizes" or corrects off beat notes to quarter, 8th, or 16th notes, and so on) or by "step recording," in which you place individual drum hits or notes on the grid one by one. It's also possible to create loops which can then be copied and pasted ad infinitum, a feature which is handy for drum and bass composition.

The guitar options are nearly endless in Advanced Studio. You'll have a host of amp sounds and effects pedals, and the ability to create and assign custom scales to the different buttons and combos on the neck. Three-button combos even allow instant access to acoustic tones. Drums are equally flexible, allowing you to select from a huge selection of conventional kits, then quickly hit the back button for Latin-style percussion sounds.

SolidSnakex, does it mention if VP2 co-op is over Live, Local, or both?

No mention of that.

 

[Sharp]

Boss Battles are totally wicked

They were just maybe a little too hard.

The difficulty is not the issue. The issue is that playing skill is relegated to an amusing distraction and it pretty much becomes about how lucky you are with your powerups. Things like lefty flip are just annoying, and double notes or whammy can actually make songs literally impossible to pass if used at certain points (which also reduces the last boss battle to restarting and waiting for a whammy to use during his fast strumming part). If instead of boss battles we were just required to play the songs it would be ten times as enjoyable.

 

[Crushed]

i didn't tell you what your opinions are.

you're butthurt that someone is assaulting one of your cherished childhood franchises

oops

 

[Amir0x]

Crushed um, that's telling you what your motivation is for your opinion, not what your opinion is.

 

[TheGreatDave]

The difficulty is not the issue. The issue is that playing skill is relegated to an amusing distraction and it pretty much becomes about how lucky you are with your powerups. Things like lefty flip are just annoying, and double notes or whammy can actually make songs literally impossible to pass if used at certain points (which also reduces the last boss battle to restarting and waiting for a whammy to use during his fast strumming part). If instead of boss battles we were just required to play the songs it would be ten times as enjoyable.

I never found the first two battles to be hard, I honestly thought they were a lot of fun. I just saw it as being like a Mario Kart with guitars. That kind of thing doesn't bug me.

Lou, yeah, there's problem with that design, especially on expert. But I still like the concept, and online it can be a lot of fun. When people aren't going for achievements.

 

[Sharp]

Here's what they say





No mention of that.

Yeah, that sounds way too good to be true, but it would be pretty nice. It sounds like the created songs are basically going to be MIDI files, which would make sense if they're doing anything on Wii or PS2. Color me mildly piqued.

 

[FightyF]

Banjo is like a hilarious joke on all people who actually enjoyed that crap franchise.

Collecting 1600 parts with a large focus on vehicles. Banjo Pilot, with the collecting FORCE of a billion Banjo platform games

so fucking awesome

You just contradicted yourself.

You claim it's a joke on the people who enjoyed the collectathon franchise, when the game has even more collecting.

So in reality it's just fanservice, not a joke. You contradicted yourself there.

 

[Crushed]

Crushed um, that's telling you what your motivation is, not what your opinion is.

"I feel sad and angered by that person attacking things from my childhood and wish they would not do it anymore."

You're right, that's not an opinion that's well uh anyway

 

[TheGreatDave]

That create a song stuff sounds a lot like Band Brothers.

Assuming they can nail the actual sound of the instruments, it could be quite amazing.

 

[Nolan.]

Absolutely fucking not. Why would I ban someone for stating outright

1. An opinion of a game's quality
2. BACKING up why they have a feeling about the game they're criticizing

Hello, people only get banned when they DON'T back up what they're saying. Most people get angry at the verbosity and hyperbole, but that's their problem. No need to dance around the truth.

Not that you'd ban them for stating an opinion on a game's quality and backing it up at all. I just thought that if you said something with a tone of ''this game sucks because it sucks'' you wouldn't somehow be invited to justify in order to reveal intent. Simply because it just unecessairly invites people with intentions to join in the fray with feeble justifications throwing the thread into disarray. Though i'm just trying to understand how it all works.

 

[sneaky77]

Boss Battles are totally wicked

They were just maybe a little too hard.

Boss Battles suck. They should be multiplayer only

 

[TheGreatDave]

Boss Battles suck. They should be multiplayer only

I disagree. But this is a conversation that could just go round in circles!

 

[Amir0x]

"I feel sad and angered that person attacking things from my childhood and wish they would not do it anymore."

You're right, that's not an opinion that's well uh anyway

wait it's your opinion that you, what, wish I would not attack Banjo? I'm sorry do you even hear what you're saying?

"Well, uh, anyway" is correct. Thread derail for semantics end, you may go back to making excuses for Banjo Crushed.

 

[Sharp]

I never found the first two battles to be hard, I honestly thought they were a lot of fun. I just saw it as being like a Mario Kart with guitars. That kind of thing doesn't bug me.

Lou, yeah, there's problem with that design, especially on expert. But I still like the concept, and online it can be a lot of fun. When people aren't going for achievements.

Maybe for you, but to me it just feels out of place. GH is a score attack game, and when I play GH I want to play a score attack game, not some sort of half-assed competitive "battle" mode. But I won't belabor the point any further, because it just comes down to a difference of opinion and this thread is already antagonistic enough.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Crushed, good effort.

 

[Relix]

TUNE IN THE SOAP OPERA OF THE MONTH: Amirox and Crushed: Love or Hate?

 

[TheGreatDave]

Maybe for you, but to me it just feels out of place. GH is a score attack game, and when I play GH I want to play a score attack game, not some sort of half-assed competitive "battle" mode. But I won't belabor the point any further, because it just comes down to a difference of opinion and this thread is already antagonistic enough.

True that.

Love you.

 

[bluemax]

I really need to shut up.

 

[Golden Darkness]

before we derail this thread into ten pages, and I discuss how you clearly don't know what troll means, and how you're butthurt that someone is assaulting one of your cherished childhood franchises borne out of the years you were deprived as a youngster from superior videogame systems, do we just want to avoid all that and continue on with me being right, and you thinking you're funny?

Such a subjective statement there.

No man is ever 100% in the right.

 

[Ridley327]

Boss Battles are totally wicked

They were just maybe a little too hard.

Boss battles aren't a bad idea per se, but they were woefully broken due to being based on Battle mode. No one should have to hope that Lou doesn't get anything but an Amp Overload or a Whammy as his first powerup. I think the easiest way to to fix boss battles and not abandon Battle mode (which is fun with other people) is making it based on momentum instead of items; maybe even adopt something like push mode from Tony Hawk and have successful star power hits push the other player off of the screen with a progressively smaller notechart window. It's how the Karate Kid and Steve Vai would have wanted it.

ZOMG

Holy fucking crap; that sounds incredible. I actually wonder if the "more robust features on the 360/PS3" is about the ability to download new sound libraries to use in this mode. That could lead to some really, really creative and potentially professional-quality compositions. Consider me sold.

 

[Sharp]

Yeah, can't talk about things that haven't been announced yet.

Oh, okay. I guess I'll go back to being pessimistic even while knowing I'll buy the game, then.

 

[Ryuuga]

Wow, a lot of interesting previews this issue. I'll have to grab a copy.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Let me just say that I agree with Amir0X, but his opinion doesn't have to be expressed as inflammatory as it is. Banjo Kazooie was already scarce in the way of platforming, and if you're still hopeful to play a platformer after this information, I don't know if I can hope along with you, especially after the recent screenshots of flat, plain areas.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Yeah, can't talk about things that haven't been announced yet.

Good job you brought it up then!

Boss battles aren't a bad idea per se, but they were woefully broken due to being based on Battle mode. No one should have to hope that Lou doesn't get anything but an Amp Overload or a Whammy as his first powerup. I think the easiest way to to fix boss battles and not abandon Battle mode (which is fun with other people) is making it based on momentum instead of items; maybe even adopt something like push mode from Tony Hawk and have successful star power hits push the other player off of the screen with a progressively smaller notechart window. It's how the Karate Kid and Steve Vai would have wanted it.

I'd probably tone the items down, and just make it so the only items are things like Amp Overload, or removing the sound from the game. Keep it somewhat logical; like the guy pulled your amp chord or something. Then have the game have you play a bunch of solos one after another, and keep the way you die the same. And make the boss not invincible without attack.

 

[DieNgamers]

Umm... Sorry to interrupt the Banjowar here *but* are there any more news about Prince of Persia? The Ubidays can't come soon enough....

(banjo rules, btw *g* my favourite JnRs on the N64)

 

[Linkup]

- Create a song. Although these exclude vocals due to storage and possible copyright issues.

oh...never mind then.

 

[godhandiscen]

COLBERTICALLEDIT.GIF

It wasnt only you, but yeah, pretty much everyone in that thread was able to infer the new gameplay mechanics from the pics. Pretty spot on GAF.

 

[Crushed]

wait it's your opinion that you, what, wish I would not attack Banjo? I'm sorry do you even hear what you're saying?

That's what you said. You said that I'm just "butthurt" and that I'm of the opinion that nobody can "assault" my "cherised childhood franchises" because of some reason you fabricated.


But whatever, you're just trying to divert attention from the fact that you've ignored several valid points about how your opinion of Banjo is flawed, and that you're focusing on irrelevant semantics in order to change the subject and create an out ("this is derailing the thread").

 

[Tiduz]

That create a song stuff sounds a lot like Band Brothers.

Assuming they can nail the actual sound of the instruments, it could be quite amazing.

Zelda tune, Mario Tune, Sonic Tune, Halo Tune, etc anybody?

Day 1. this will be so awesome.

 

[pgtl_10]

I don't like the sound of one on one battles in Prince of Persia. Sure the original games have one on one battles but they were 2D. I could see the one on one battles getting boring real fast in 3D.

 

[Cheech]

GH4 better work with the Rockband instruments or no sale.

No shit, I have hit my quota on plastic instruments. I'm up to 3 guitars, drums, and mic.

If GH4 has boss battles, they can just keep it. I won't even bother with it for the guitar part.

 

[Tristam]

Crushed um, that's telling you what your motivation is for your opinion, not what your opinion is.

Seems implied to me: "Look, the game was fucking awful, you're just blinded by childhood nostalgia." i.e., his opinion is flat-out wrong. edit: or, to clarify, his opinion can't be based on the fact that Banjo is good (because it's awful); rather, it's a product of childhood nostalgia and therefore entirely useless.

No cares here since I've never liked Banjo's gameplay, but it's amusing that you dismiss hyperbole as nothing more than linguistic flavor. Let's deal with a purely hypothetical example: Nintendo announces a Mother compilation for DS; I enter the thread and repeatedly post that Mother is a vile crock of shit with the inane and childish humor that pleases only a small subset of nintards. Oh, and I give an arbitrary reason for my opinion: say that it's because a lamp or some other appliance attacks your character at the very start of the game. I would probably face a ban, even though I gave a reason for describing the humor as inane and childish.

 

[No6]

That create a song stuff sounds a lot like Band Brothers.

Assuming they can nail the actual sound of the instruments, it could be quite amazing.

I guess my feeling is that it'll be a cute diversion and nothing else simply because the interface to input sound is going to be so lacking, unless they're going for a Guitar Rising thing. THAT would be awesome, but somehow I just doubt it.

I dunno, I'm just expecting Neversoft to botch the job like they've done with almost everything else for the last 5 years.

 

[FightyF]

But whatever, you're just trying to divert attention from the fact that you've ignored several valid points about how your opinion of Banjo is flawed, and that you're focusing on irrelevant semantics in order to change the subject and create an out ("this is derailing the thread").

I pointed out how his original statement was illogical, and that's the end of that. You don't have to worry about arguing this any further, really.

 

[dacuk]

GHIV on the cover when you could have done Banjo? I guess they want to sell magazines...

Oh maybe they want to cater to owners of all consoles owners instead of owners of one...
I do not think Rare games deserves a cover nowadays.

 

[dacuk]

Sorry, double post

 

[TheGreatDave]

I guess my feeling is that it'll be a cute diversion and nothing else simply because the interface to input sound is going to be so lacking, unless they're going for a Guitar Rising thing. THAT would be awesome, but somehow I just doubt it.

I dunno, I'm just expecting Neversoft to botch the job like they've done with almost everything else for the last 5 years.

Well, they made the best Guitar Hero game, so I'll give them some credit

"Dangerous"

 

[GaryD]

This Guitar Hero news really sucks for reasons I can not disclose :/

This is why anonymous blogs were invented

 

[godhandiscen]

Crushed, give it up. you'll play Banjo, he won't, or he'll hate himself when he comes to accept he likes it.