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[Sheroking]

You really should get better bro. It's that simple. I love playing through these games wondering what danger is around the corner, knowing there is a real risk of losing progress if I make a mistake. It makes every exploration exciting and riveting.

So to compensate, I get really good at the game, and am delighted during those rare moments when I do fuck up.

If you can't take the challenge, there are easier modes that make this sort of thing a virtually non-existent problem. You've also already been catered to in a thousand other games. So either lower the difficulty or play another game. This one is fine just the way it is.

The game is not difficult. When you die in this game, it's because some shit went wrong and you lost an RNG dice roll or got status'd out on turn 1. Everyone I've seen play this has died.

I don't need to play on a baby difficulty because I'm dying. I need the game to not be dated almost to the point of cartridges and do what practically every other game does: autosave at bed-time. Auto-save when you enter dungeons. Cost me minutes, not hours.

 

[Primethius]

It's fine. Just autosave when I go into the room. What's the practical difference between doing it for me and making me remember to do it myself? You're going to potentially make me lose an hour because I didn't remember to press start?

I don't know, doesn't make much of a difference for me given how quick it is so it's never crossed my mind.

I have a fairly simple but useful save setup (month, week, day etc) in the Persona series so I'd never use or care for autosaves to begin with.

The game is not difficult. When you die in this game, it's because some shit went wrong and you lost an RNG dice roll or got status'd out on turn 1. Everyone I've seen play this has died.

I don't need to play on a baby difficulty because I'm dying. I need the game to not be dated almost to the point of cartridges and do what practically every other game does: autosave at bed-time. Auto-save when you enter dungeons. Cost me minutes, not hours.

Try not to rely on hyperbole and BS to make your point. It makes you look bad.

 

[Korigama]

This is not a thing, right? Like, the SEES in Persona 3 has been operating for a long time before the MC came along.

It's not. The actual story reason for it is because (major P3 SPOILERS)

Spoiler

the very thing sealed within him that would end the world, Nyx, would be released if he died (of course, killing all of the full moon Shadows made that a moot point and allowed it to get out anyway)

.

 

[Corpekata]

GIT GUD at RNG allowing a lucky crit string on you before you even get a chance to act you scrub!

 

[ethomaz]

Naw, that's seriously not a thing. Teddie has been living in this dungeon long before MC came along, after all, and the first incident of people entering TV happened even before the MC arrives in town.

Teddie only get it personal due MC lol

Without the MC there is no persona or powers to others party members.

MC has the God powers and everything happens because that.

Shadows existed before MC... the power to fight the shadows only existed because MC received the God powers.

 

[Amir0x]

aka "I accept shitty design because u suck and i dont lol"

It is okay to acknowledge shitty design and still not be affected by it.

I love the mechanic and have explained why, and there are entire communities that like such thought to hardcore mechanics and aren't afraid of losing time or progress and are in fact enlivened by it. Just because you have problems with it does not make your nonsense translation accurate.

 

[drtomoe123]

What a condescending shitpost.

You aren't special. The game will randomly kill you regardless of what you do. There's no "sense of achievement" lost in auto-saving for you so you don't lose two weeks of in-game progress because your got Mudo'd two feet into a dungeon or Mementos.

It's bad design. That's why it's basically the only series that doesn't auto-save.

As someone who's lost quite a few hours to this in P5 thus far, every single time it's happened it's because I've been careless/in grinding mode and wasn't taking the game seriously. Every time I hit a Game Over (aside from Hama/Mudo which is a given at this point) I always know deep down that I effed up, even more so if I lose a bit of progress because I skip saving (even autosaving!!!) at the last safe room because I was trying to rush though the dungeon. Even though it's frustrating having to go through 10-20 minutes of a palace again, you learn your lesson pretty quickly. That said, this game lets you save SO MUCH (and so easily!) so if you're losing in-game weeks of progress at a time, that's not really the game's fault.

Then again, I may be conditioned to save a lot more because my 3DS's cartridge slot has been wonky for the last little bit, resulting in tons of random (ahem usually very inopportune) crashes. That taught me to save every chance I had, even in a game with infinite retry like SMT Apocalypse.

 

[MaximumSpider]

First dungeon boss randomly one shots my MC.

It's fucking dumb.

Is he on low health? Why haven't you healed him in that case?

 

[asagami_]

I've only played the first two and like an hour of 3 and 4 each. The first time someone told me this I thought they were crazy.

3 has a reason (big late spoilers)

Spoiler

the MC is tied to Death, so if he dies, it's over for him.

4 and 5 don't have a plot reason, but as other poster said, the MC are the jack of all trades, so he can be invincible as soon you start to get Persona which nullifies or repel attacks.

 

[Jeffrey]

like the example i remember still.

those dog enemies in palace 3. Apparently I missed the memo that they have a desperation attack at low hp that did 240ish crit damage to my MC and took him from full hp to dead.

Awesome!


Honestly, just let me retry any battle and my issue would be addressed, it already does let you for minibosses and bosses... why not for enemy encounters?

 

[mike6467]

The number of times that you will have all of the following occur

- Encounter a NEW enemy that you both haven't encountered and haven't fused
- Have that new enemy use the instant death ability on you before anyone else
- Have that enemy connect with that ability

Are rare. I have never had it happen in P4 or P5. Not arguing it doesn't, but of the times I've died this way it's because I'd encountered the enemy/ability, didn't take the threat seriously and continued trying to progress through the dungeon and fight them when clearly I needed to approach it differently.

Eventually you learn that you need vanish balls for when you see an enemy use this stuff on another party member so you can peace out and use item to get out of the dungeon.
The dungeons in this game are fairly static as to the types of monsters they throw at you. Once you get an idea of it (which doesn't take long) you get to a safe room, go to to The Velvet Room and get to work figuring out how you're going to proceed based on the strengths you've seen.

That's the game.

 

[jrush64]

It's a totally bullshit mechanic that needs to go. FF13 had that and I'm pretty sure people didn't like it in that game.

 

[PaulloDEC]

If you don't want to learn how to play the game, then turn down the difficulty.

So for example, in an encounter 40 hours into the game myself and my teammates are hit with despair, and I don't have enough items to cure it. We've never encountered this ailment in the game thus far, and we're not told how it works or what it does. Ultimately I learn that it kills you after like two turns, and I get a game over, erasing about 45 mins of play.

And this is somehow a fair system in which that game over was my fault?

To be clear, I've only lost significant progress via a game over maybe twice in my 45-ish hours now, but let's not pretend that the game can't suddenly blindside you.

 

[Sophia]

Honestly, just let me retry any battle and my issue would be addressed, it already does let you for minibosses and bosses... why not for enemy encounters?

This was a feature in Persona 4 Golden on the easier settings. Is it not in Persona 5? I'm playing on Hard mode, which only has the retry for bosses.

 

[Venfayth]

Play on safety, you baby.

This was a feature in Persona 4 Golden on the easier settings. Is it not in Persona 5? I'm playing on Hard mode, which only has the retry for bosses.

If you die on safety the game revives you and your team and you can continue the fight from there.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

It's a totally bullshit mechanic that needs to go. FF13 had that and I'm pretty sure people didn't like it in that game.

Ff13 isn't a well liked game tho.(it's terrible there too)

 

[xxracerxx]

First dungeon boss randomly one shots my MC.

It's fucking dumb.

What level were you? Or was your MC not at full health?

 

[Corpekata]

Is he on low health? Why haven't you healed him in that case?

Do you not actually know what the term "one shot" means?

 

[Coriolanus]

First dungeon boss randomly one shots my MC.

It's fucking dumb.

That should be impossible on normal. MC has 100+hp. Highest dmg attack the boss has, even powered up, is 80 or so.

So, yknow, receipts.

 

[Skilletor]

Is he on low health? Why haven't you healed him in that case?

Because it's from full health. Hence "one shotting."

That should be impossible on normal. MC has 100+hp. Highest dmg attack the boss has, even powered up, is 80 or so.

So, yknow, receipts.

I would, but they don't let me stream or take pics...lololol.

Playing on hard, btw.

 

[buddha0991]

I've only played the first two and like an hour of 3 and 4 each. The first time someone told me this I thought they were crazy.

This is also a thing in the Persona 3 and 4 focused spinoff Persona Q

In that game every character has a permanent main Persona, and a second slot where you can put any Persona in the game into, to serve as your secondary Persona.

Edit: Whoops you are talking about Instagame over if MC dies...well at least Persona Q doesnt do that unless you are on the hardest difficulty too!

 

[JayEH]

Lots of elitism here.

 

[Servbot24]

Why is it so offensive to lose time? Of course if you die you will lose some time. That's how video games have always worked, unless you're playing Mario on baby mode or something like that.

 

[PBalfredo]

Lots of hot shots in here not grasping that the complaint isn't that only the hardcore skills of Pro Gamers like yourselves could survive Persona, but rather that the system leads to situations where equipping any persona without instant death-immunity at all times is gambling with the MC's life.

 

[ZangBa]

It's definitely an archaic mechanic that has no business existing in this game or any RPG usually. The fact that it's considered the only way to make the game challenging is a symptom to how flawed the battle system is in general.

 

[mrmickfran]

As much as I love Persona this shit really is inexcusable.

You shouldn't have a mechanic like this in a series that's known for screwing over the player out of nowhere

 

[Amir0x]

As someone who's lost quite a few hours to this in P5 thus far, every single time it's happened it's because I've been careless/in grinding mode and wasn't taking the game seriously. Every time I hit a Game Over (aside from Hama/Mudo which is a given at this point) I always know deep down that I effed up, even more so if I lose a bit of progress because I skip saving (even autosaving!!!) at the last safe room because I was trying to rush though the dungeon. Even though it's frustrating having to go through 10-20 minutes of a palace again, you learn your lesson pretty quickly. That said, this game lets you save SO MUCH (and so easily!) so if you're losing in-game weeks of progress at a time, that's not really the game's fault.

Then again, I may be conditioned to save a lot more because my 3DS's cartridge slot has been wonky for the last little bit, resulting in tons of random (ahem usually very inopportune) crashes. That taught me to save every chance I had, even in a game with infinite retry like SMT Apocalypse.

There are people who can play through Persona games without ever dying. He just wishes his complaints were universal, and is mad that they ain't.

 

[Kusagari]

If the first boss is one shotting you on normal you must be ridiculously under leveled.

 

[Venfayth]

Lots of elitism here.

I mean, just as much elitism as people asking for an easy mode in Dark Souls.

The best part is that Persona 5 already has an easy mode, so these complaints make no sense.

The game design isn't really that archaic, and I'd prefer it to stay - not because I think dying is fun - but because as others have mentioned it makes every fight important and tense.

 

[Radical Edward]

How are the encounters poorly designed? The groups you fight against usually have a theme of some sort, it usually doesn't matter that much but there are groups which mainly deal damage through status effects, some with mainly brute force attacks, and so on. Throwing a blanket statement like "encounters are designed poorly" and not giving any examples of it doesn't do you any favors. If you are unsure about the enemies you can just guard with your mc, and fish out the weaknesses for future reference, or if you still don't feel safe you can order an escape after that so that you will get away even if you didn't manage to find the weaknesses. And if you get ambushed and the enemy kills you in one turn, it's just your own fault for getting the alert status going.

Personally, i find 99%of the encounters to easy because the enemy ai just throw random shit out. Most battles require little strategy because the enemies dont seem to use tactics or combos. When I do die, it's usually because of rng or the game's poor controls and camera.

 

[Sophia]

That should be impossible on normal. MC has 100+hp. Highest dmg attack the boss has, even powered up, is 80 or so.

So, yknow, receipts.

It's possible on normal, but it'd require either a Persona with low endurance, a main character who hasn't been upgraded in armor, or a lucky critical hit.

 

[Sheroking]

Lots of elitism here.

Remembering to press start is apparently a high level skill.

Git gud scrubs.

 

[Clairvoyance]

Are people joking when they pretend that it makes the game require actual skill rather than being a shitty RNG mechanic that they refuse to acknowledge is awful because it's in their mostest favoritest game ever? Even though it wasn't in the first two Personas or in the harder SMT games?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

There are people who can play through Persona games without ever dying. He just wishes his complaints were universal, and is mad that they ain't.

Why are you being so condescending?

 

[blankempathy]

I only die against normal enemies due to bad luck. I remember one fight I got straight up bodied by back to back rampages and my mc kept getting crit. Went from full to zero and couldn't do a Damn thing. Outside of instances like that I rarely die. Also later on you get more abilities to protect yourself like party members taking fatal hits for you, items to protect yourself and abilities. I've never had a full party wipe though so keeping mc alive seems to be the real challenge.

Remembering to press start is apparently a high level skill.

Git gud scrubs.

sorry not every game spoils you with auto saves? I mean being able to keep multiple saves and the ability to save in most places isn't good enough for some people though. If you forget that's on the player. It literally takes seconds to do.

 

[jwhit28]

I mean, just as much elitism as people asking for an easy mode in Dark Souls.

The best part is that Persona 5 already has an easy mode, so these complaints make no sense.

The game design isn't really that archaic, and I'd prefer it to stay - not because I think dying is fun - but because as others have mentioned it makes every fight important and tense.

It does seem backwards though considering SMTIV could avoid that and still be tough while the main character is a god in combat.

 

[TrueBlue]

First Persona game, and I had a bit of a moan about this earlier.

It feels like a really arbitrary condition of the battle system more than anything. There's no story justification for why the rest of the party inexplicably lose their shit and forget their ability to use revive spells or items.

It's not even as if the deaths themselves have been unfair. Generally speaking it's due to a couple of bad decisions on my part that I lose. That's fine, but when a loss comes through an instant kill spell or an unlucky miss, it makes the loss in progress harder to swallow.

I feel the bigger issue is the save system - particularly in palaces. Save scumming in the safe rooms rooms is counter productive since it can ruin the pacing, and if you have to travel between rooms it causes the enemies to respawn.

I feel there should have been a checkpoint system separate from the save rooms, so as to mitigate time wasted if you die. That way the current system and difficulty can remain while curbing frustration. EDIT: The checkpoints can also be spaced as not to be too generous, which is a risk with autosaves.

Hell, the current save system could remain if they gave the player some options if the MC falls. Maybe they should be given the choice to incur a penalty - sacrificing a Persona perhaps - for reviving the MC, or to start back from the save room. That way the unique nature of the MC would be retained and potentially used against you if you're careless.

This is mostly spitballing though. I feel it's something they can look at in the future, and is one of my only criticisms for what has been a wonderful introduction to the series.

 

[DVCY201]

"The Homunculus sacrificed itself!"

I don't know where to get them. I don't know where to buy SP replenishing items either.

Some of the game is obtuse as ever

 

[buddha0991]

It does seem backwards though considering SMTIV could avoid that and still be tough while the main character is a god in combat.

I dunno, SMTIV has a reputation among the Megaten fanbase for being super easy...

 

[duckroll]

I don't have anything against MC death = Game Over in P5. I don't think this is a problem, and practically you don't usually lose much significant play time unless you are careless. But what I do think is a usability problem is the game's lack of autosave. This is a feature which is pretty much expected these days. I'm not saying it should autosave in every room, but rather, manual saving should be something you only need to do if you want to preserve a permanent save slot at a given point. There is no reason not to autosave at every possible point just for convenience. In dungeons, if the game autosaves every time you enter a safe room, I think that will mitigate a lot of "I lost 3 hours in the dungeon fuuuuuck" situations because some people don't have a habit of manually saving at every point, and honestly, there's no reason to punish them for it either. It's not some complicated gameplay mechanic you need to train people to do. Same with autosaving during story events and non-dungeon navigation. Sometimes people just need to stop playing and go do something else. Games are not the most important thing in the world and should cater to general lifestyles. It doesn't make it a lesser game, but one that's easier to enjoy for everyone.

 

[Coriolanus]

I would, but they don't let me stream or take pics...lololol.

Playing on hard, btw.

so...uh... maybe don't do that? Hard simply isn't about having a fair game experience.

 

[Primethius]

Are people joking when they pretend that it makes the game require actual skill rather than being a shitty RNG mechanic that they refuse to acknowledge is awful because it's in their mostest favoritest game ever? Even though it wasn't in the first two Personas or in the harder SMT games?

A mechanic can both be based in RNG and still promote skill via its implementation.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Venfayth]

Personally, i find 99%of the encounters to easy because the enemy ai just throw random shit out. Most battles require little strategy because the enemies dont seem to use tactics or combos. When I do die, it's usually because of rng or the game's poor controls and camera.

Are we even talking about the same game? You have to hit weaknesses in order to knock them down. You have to keep dudes out who are weak against the attack patterns the enemies use, or block. There are enemy packs who, for example, will attempt to enrage your whole team forcing them to attack into enemies who are resistant to or block physical damage.

Your apparent lack of awareness of how the game works makes it hard to take your criticisms seriously, from my point of view.

 

[names2hard4you]

It's really bad when you are knee deep in a palace, everyone gets statused the fuck out and you know you can do nothing but watch as you lose an hour or two of progress while you get hit non-stop. Feels bad man.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'm not really a fan of the mechanic itself, but P5 is mad easy

 

[Coolbgdog12]

it's frustrating but I feel like it adds a sort of challenge.

 

[Radical Edward]

That should be impossible on normal. MC has 100+hp. Highest dmg attack the boss has, even powered up, is 80 or so.

So, yknow, receipts.

Double fang was doing 80 + two times and the second time you see the mini boss from the cathedral he can insta kill your entire party.

 

[A.J.]

Use the save rooms. Also it does let you retry from the beginning of the fight for big battles.

 

[Ferrio]

I don't have anything against MC death = Game Over in P5. I don't think this is a problem, and practically you don't usually lose much significant play time unless you are careless. But what I do think is a usability problem is the game's lack of autosave. This is a feature which is pretty much expected these days. I'm not saying it should autosave in every room, but rather, manual saving should be something you only need to do if you want to preserve a permanent save slot at a given point. There is no reason not to autosave at every possible point just for convenience. In dungeons, if the game autosaves every time you enter a safe room, I think that will mitigate a lot of "I lost 3 hours in the dungeon fuuuuuck" situations because some people don't have a habit of manually saving at every point, and honestly, there's no reason to punish them for it either. It's not some complicated gameplay mechanic you need to train people to do. Same with autosaving during story events and non-dungeon navigation. Sometimes people just need to stop playing and go do something else. Games are not the most important thing in the world and should cater to general lifestyles. It doesn't make it a lesser game, but one that's easier to enjoy for everyone.

I could see auto save putting people in some unwinnable places. I'm sure there'd be tons of people that only use auto save, and never do any manual ones. It might be why they avoid it altogether.

 

[Karu]

I love the mechanic and have explained why, and there are entire communities that like such thought to hardcore mechanics and aren't afraid of losing time or progress and are in fact enlivened by it. Just because you have problems with it does not make your nonsense translation accurate.

Tbf your second post came in close approx to my answer so I didn't see your more detailed explanation after.

Other than that, as I said, I like risk, but don't see how burdening all that risk on the MC instead of your entire party enhances the game in a significant way. There is the ability to swap your Persona at will with your MC, granted, but then I would prefer to have that ability for all my team mates with a accordinly balanced combat in regards to enemy strength.
I don't think the identity of Persona hinges on this change-up in relation to SMT, which is why I found the combat system in that regard a bit weird.