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GamePro PLAIGARIZES IGN's review of Water Warfare (Wii)

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Flachmatuch said:
This is so incredibly pathetic. Jesus fucking Christ, the whole idea of being able to plagiarise a fucking game review, especially the parts that LIST FUCKING FEATURES is ridiculous in itself. OP = busybody douchebag

While I'm not totally up on the game, apparently both reviews make the same errors when describing some of the gameplay. Regardless, plagiarism is plagiarism, no matter how small. You should really save your scorn for the writer who was apparently so busy that he felt he had to plagiarize sections of a review covering basic features.
 

Dali

Member
Flachmatuch said:
This is so incredibly pathetic. Jesus fucking Christ, the whole idea of being able to plagiarise a fucking game review, especially the parts that LIST FUCKING FEATURES is ridiculous in itself. OP = busybody douchebag
Sorry about you losing your job and all, man. Hopefully you learned your lesson though.
 
morningbus said:
While I'm not totally up on the game, apparently both reviews make the same errors when describing some of the gameplay. Regardless, plagiarism is plagiarism, no matter how small. You should really save your scorn for the writer who was apparently so busy that he felt he had to plagiarize sections of a review covering basic features.

I think the whole idea of plagiarism in terms of reviews is pathetic. They're mostly just ads ffs. And tbh I don't think paraphrasing a few words from another shitty review really counts as plagiarism, and it's definitely not something a smalltime minion should be fired for. Seriously, it feels like spying on your neighbour or something, just pure ill will in the name of "morals". Of course it's not nice, but seriously, is it worth it for the OP to know that they put someone in trouble over some piece of shit writing that practically serves as an advertisement anyway? The damage done is not even remotely comparable imo. And if you want to crusade about plagiarism and IP rights in general, there are bigger issues than a fucking game review :)
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Flachmatuch said:
I think the whole idea of plagiarism in terms of reviews is pathetic. They're mostly just ads ffs. And tbh I don't think paraphrasing a few words from another shitty review really counts as plagiarism, and it's definitely not something a smalltime minion should be fired for. Seriously, it feels like spying on your neighbour or something, just pure ill will in the name of "morals". Of course it's not nice, but seriously, is it worth it for the OP to know that they put someone in trouble over some piece of shit writing that practically serves as an advertisement anyway? The damage done is not even remotely comparable imo. And if you want to crusade about plagiarism and IP rights in general, there are bigger issues than a fucking game review :)

God forbid a person who wants to be a professional writer be held to a professional's standards.
 
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit. Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.
 
skinnyrattler said:
Now if we could only get Matt C to honestly admit that fucking the marketing exec on the Nintendo account is a source of conflict, like those guys fessed up. No? Nevermind, continue on.

Most people don't conflict of interest themselves out of their entire livelihood.
 
Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh.
Animation4.gif
 

Dali

Member
Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit. Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.
As much as I may agree with this sentiment, stealing people's shit and pawning it off as your own is despicable. Dude deserved what he got.


... and for the record it wasn't paraphrasing. It was almost complete word-for-word lifting in some cases or a simple rearrange. Rearranging the exact same words is not paraphrasing.
 

Zenith

Banned
Flachmatuch said:
This is so incredibly pathetic. Jesus fucking Christ, the whole idea of being able to plagiarise a fucking game review, especially the parts that LIST FUCKING FEATURES is ridiculous in itself. OP = busybody douchebag

the guy confessed to using IGN's review.
 

jay

Member
Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit. Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.

Doesn't this somehow make it even worse? It's like stealing from the poor.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit. Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.
I'm really confused.

If reviewers are bad, why shouldn't we hold their failures up to the light in order to effect some sort of improvement?

Unless you believe that game journalists can only be "an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed", upholding some of the basic tenets of journalism is a necessity.
 
sonicmj1 said:
I'm really confused.

If reviewers are bad, why shouldn't we hold their failures up to the light in order to effect some sort of improvement?

Unless you believe that game journalists can only be "an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed", upholding some of the basic tenets of journalism is a necessity.

I'm not saying what he did isn't bad. I'm just saying that I wouldn't have made a thread about it if I was the OP and I'd feel pretty fucking bad if the reason for this poor sob's firing had been me, as the "crime" is so petty. It's comparable to stealing a pack of chewing gum from a shop or something. I'd tell the guy to put it back, but I definitely wouldn't call the cops on him...and if someone did that, I'd think of them as much bigger assholes than the guy who stole.

Anyway, it's a bit OT, but "gaming journalism" will never ever become "real" journalism. Not ever. I don't think the "basic tenets" will ever apply here.

jay said:
Doesn't this somehow make it even worse? It's like stealing from the poor.


You have a point :-D
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. You want your videogame writers as stupid, careless, and deceitful as possible? I understand asking for excellence from Gamepro's DLC blog may seem petty, but this is a writer with more exposure than most breaking a cardinal rule of the trade.

Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.

I'd probably feel bad too, admittedly. However, the OP posted this under the assumption of it being a paid writer working directly for Gamepro, which would have made the situation far, far worse.
 
morningbus said:
I'm not exactly sure what your point is. You want your videogame writers as stupid, careless, and deceitful as possible? I understand asking for excellence from Gamepro's DLC blog may seem petty, but this is a writer with more exposure than most breaking a cardinal rule of the trade.

I think the structure of the "industry" means that proper "journalism", where the basic principles of the trade can actually be applicable, is impossible. Doesn't mean it's nice to copy other's work but I really don't think this particular case is that bad.

I'd probably feel bad too, admittedly. However, the OP posted this under the pretense of it being a paid writer working directly for Gamepro, which would have made the situation far, far worse.

I don't know, it's just so low level, I think I can handle that kind of cheating :-/
 

Zenith

Banned
Flachmatuch said:
I'm just saying that I wouldn't have made a thread about it if I was the OP and I'd feel pretty fucking bad if the reason for this poor sob's firing had been me, as the "crime" is so petty. It's comparable to stealing a pack of chewing gum from a shop or something. I'd tell the guy to put it back, but I definitely wouldn't call the cops on him...and if someone did that, I'd think of them as much bigger assholes than the guy who stole.

Hello, Andrew.
 

kylej

Banned
On the bright side maybe we'll get a 1UP.com or GameLife Top 10 Video Game Review Plagiarism list soon.
 

duckroll

Member
Flachmatuch said:
This is so incredibly pathetic. Jesus fucking Christ, the whole idea of being able to plagiarise a fucking game review, especially the parts that LIST FUCKING FEATURES is ridiculous in itself. OP = busybody douchebag

The whole idea that someone would bother plagiarizing the parts of a review that like features, instead of writing their own text from available knowledge/material is what is ridiculous. The idea of plagirization is never ridiculous. What anyone writes for any purpose is a representation of what that person has to say about something. Even if it simply repeats factual information available elsewhere, it does not mean it should not be protected by the same rules which protect everything else.

This is a gaming forum, there is nothing busybody about pointing out something clearly wrong with a game review. It is a matter of public interest, since the review is published as a public piece. It is not something the guy wrote and shared among his friends, only to have someone leak it out and go "HAHA LOOK AT HOW DUMB HE IS" or anything.

To be a busybody, you have you be intruding into a private matter or one which does not concern you, in this case as someone who reads the review, he is involved in the matter as an audience member. If a singer is lip syncing at a concert, people point that out all the time. This is no different.


Flachmatuch said:
I think the whole idea of plagiarism in terms of reviews is pathetic. They're mostly just ads ffs. And tbh I don't think paraphrasing a few words from another shitty review really counts as plagiarism, and it's definitely not something a smalltime minion should be fired for. Seriously, it feels like spying on your neighbour or something, just pure ill will in the name of "morals".

This is nonsense. It doesn't matter what you think of reviews. Even if they're all ads, you can't plagiarize advertising either. If an ad copies another ad in an obvious way and it is proven, it gets pulled and people do get fired. You're not making a good case at all. As far as spying on your neighbor is concerned, this is more like calling the cops to complain if your neighbor comes out of his house naked and starts jerking off on his front lawn. He might be on his property, but he's making himself visible to the public and committing an offense. Complaining against that should be encouraged and applauded, not condemned.

Of course it's not nice, but seriously, is it worth it for the OP to know that they put someone in trouble over some piece of shit writing that practically serves as an advertisement anyway? The damage done is not even remotely comparable imo. And if you want to crusade about plagiarism and IP rights in general, there are bigger issues than a fucking game review :)

I don't think pointing out what someone has done wrong counts as a crusade. It's simply an observation. Should people not observe what they digest? If we watch something, or notice something which we know to be incorrect or of questionable intent, should we not voice it out and complain about it? It's not like it takes a lot of effort to do it and that he put anyone in a position they don't deserve to be in by doing this. He saw something incorrect, and he pointed it out.

Flachmatuch said:
Oh, so games journalists are "professionals" now? Don't make me laugh. It's just an inbred group of third rate fanboys who can be easily brainwashed by whatever publisher events they're allowed to attend. I think he's a perfect fit. Also, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired...but if it had been because of me, I'd be ashamed.

Anyone hired to work for a legitimate enterprise should aspire for professionalism. They are professionals in the sense that they are working in a profession, a specialization. Once again, it does not matter what your opinion of this particular industry is, it doesn't matter because there are rules to be followed.

Considering how much you hate the game journalism profession, I'm surprised you would be angry at someone pointing out an error like this. This can only mean that you want the industry to remain at the low standard you consider it at the moment, and not want it to improve or benefit from corrections. As such I can only assume the worst of you as a person, because you do not advocate for improvements or a higher standard, but instead feel it is irresponsible and shameful to strive for such higher standards. I hope you do not raise any children, if that's what you plan on teaching them about the world. :p
 

Dali

Member
Flachmatuch said:
I'm not saying what he did isn't bad. I'm just saying that I wouldn't have made a thread about it if I was the OP and I'd feel pretty fucking bad if the reason for this poor sob's firing had been me, as the "crime" is so petty. It's comparable to stealing a pack of chewing gum from a shop or something. I'd tell the guy to put it back, but I definitely wouldn't call the cops on him...and if someone did that, I'd think of them as much bigger assholes than the guy who stole.
I think anyone that writes... no anyone that's been to college... no anyone that's been to school above the 5th grade knows how grievous a foul plagiarism is considered. If you are a professional writer (by that I simply mean you get paid) then you should be even more aware of this fact than the average joe. The fact that he still committed one of the worst betrayals of writing/journalism/integrity says something about him as a person. He did it. He knew it was wrong. He may do it again as his integrity or the value of his unsullied name didn't stop him the first time.

The guy stealing the gum knows stealing is wrong, but he also knows you won't be looking at his every move. He may never steal again, but he may also take advantage of the fact that you aren't omniscient. He lost his job because he wasn't trustworthy and Gamepro doesn't have the resources to check all his reviews against all other reviews to see if he is lifting people's words. Rather than risk their good(?) name on the chance Plagi McStealwords has reformed, they let him go to ensure it won't happen again.
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Flachmatuch said:
I think the structure of the "industry" means that proper "journalism", where the basic principles of the trade can actually be applicable, is impossible.

I'll agree that videogame journalism will never be the same as political journalism, I just don't think it has to be. If journalists were to ask Nintendo the same kind of questions that are asked of politicians, it'd be ridiculous. Answer for your crimes, Nintendo: why doesn't the Wii had an HDMI port? "We didn't feel it was necessary" isn't good enough! The peoples' eyes are bleeding and you don't give a damn!

That doesn't mean they can't take what they do seriously, even if it is reporting on the relatively more trivial things.

Doesn't mean it's nice to copy other's work but I really don't think this particular case is that bad.

I don't know, it's just so low level, I think I can handle that kind of cheating :-/

If you don't think getting paid for stealing another's work is bad, then I can't really argue with that. If I may ask, though: what profession do you work in? I'd like to enter it, steal your work and get paid for it. I don't think you'll mind.
 
morningbus said:
If you don't think getting paid for stealing another's work is bad, then I can't really argue with that. If I may ask, though: what profession do you work in? I'd like to enter it, steal your work and get paid for it. I don't think you'll mind.
It's pretty clear he's working to cure cancer or end world hunger, since he keeps going on about THE BIGGER ISSUES. :lol
 

skip

Member
Flachmatuch said:
I think the structure of the "industry" means that proper "journalism", where the basic principles of the trade can actually be applicable, is impossible. Doesn't mean it's nice to copy other's work but I really don't think this particular case is that bad.

1993-04-10-7.jpg
 

MC Safety

Member
Ulairi said:
it's not word for word, it's just bad copy. And there is no such thing as games journalism, they are critics not journalists.

Bull.

I read this criticism a lot, and it holds no water. Yet it continues to be thrown up time and again.

You're both crazy and stupid if you think all these people do is pop games into their consoles and then spit out reviews. Game journalists, despite everyone's great disdain for them, perform a lot of journalism-related tasks: interviewing sources, fact-checking, writing news- and feature stories, etc.

There are plenty of game journalists with real-world experience as reporters and editors with major newspapers and magazines. But even the ones who have (sadly) little or no earthly skill or experience perform basic functions of reporters and editors.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
I just don't understand how 'work' escaped the scare quotes. You are letting these bozoes off easy, and that is the last thing they deserve from one of the few places that actually has the balls to call them all out for what they really are.
 
duckroll said:
The whole idea that someone would bother plagiarizing the parts of a review that like features, instead of writing their own text from available knowledge/material is what is ridiculous. The idea of plagirization is never ridiculous. What anyone writes for any purpose is a representation of what that person has to say about something. Even if it simply repeats factual information available elsewhere, it does not mean it should not be protected by the same rules which protect everything else.

I'm not going to argue that this isn't bad, although frankly he didn't even take the ideas of the other writer, just a few generic phrases, but I don't really agree with this. I think a lot of this stuff is overprotected. The worst thing about the article is the lack of attribution.

This is a gaming forum, there is nothing busybody about pointing out something clearly wrong with a game review. It is a matter of public interest, since the review is published as a public piece. It is not something the guy wrote and shared among his friends, only to have someone leak it out and go "HAHA LOOK AT HOW DUMB HE IS" or anything.

To be a busybody, you have you be intruding into a private matter or one which does not concern you, in this case as someone who reads the review, he is involved in the matter as an audience member. If a singer is lip syncing at a concert, people point that out all the time. This is no different.

I think you can be easily considered a busybody if your intrusion causes unnecessary damage.

This is nonsense. It doesn't matter what you think of reviews. Even if they're all ads, you can't plagiarize advertising either. If an ad copies another ad in an obvious way and it is proven, it gets pulled and people do get fired. You're not making a good case at all. As far as spying on your neighbor is concerned, this is more like calling the cops to complain if your neighbor comes out of his house naked and starts jerking off on his front lawn. He might be on his property, but he's making himself visible to the public and committing an offense. Complaining against that should be encouraged and applauded, not condemned.

Imo people should try judge the consequences of their actions for themselves first and not act on simplistic "principles" (which aren't principles btw because they're applied inconsistently and go completely unnoticed with the bigger scale stuff). For some reason I find aiming at people who can be fired in one second (like the guy was) a bit disgusting when the whole industry they're in is so distorted.

I don't think pointing out what someone has done wrong counts as a crusade. It's simply an observation. Should people not observe what they digest? If we watch something, or notice something which we know to be incorrect or of questionable intent, should we not voice it out and complain about it? It's not like it takes a lot of effort to do it and that he put anyone in a position they don't deserve to be in by doing this. He saw something incorrect, and he pointed it out.

I think he should have written the guy a private mail to say "hey someone might notice you copied stuff here, you'd better change it", or write to their boss at worst.

Anyone hired to work for a legitimate enterprise should aspire for professionalism. They are professionals in the sense that they are working in a profession, a specialization. Once again, it does not matter what your opinion of this particular industry is, it doesn't matter because there are rules to be followed.

It's a bit OT, but in general, I disagree.

Considering how much you hate the game journalism profession, I'm surprised you would be angry at someone pointing out an error like this. This can only mean that you want the industry to remain at the low standard you consider it at the moment, and not want it to improve or benefit from corrections. As such I can only assume the worst of you as a person, because you do not advocate for improvements or a higher standard, but instead feel it is irresponsible and shameful to strive for such higher standards. I hope you do not raise any children, if that's what you plan on teaching them about the world. :p

Less plagiarism or, in general, more discipline in gaming journalism wouldn't make it better at all. It has nothing at all to do with what's wrong with gaming journalism. It's part of a system to market games and gaming in general, it's journalism only in name. It would only get better if it became mostly independent from publishers, and that has nothing at all to do with plagiarism at all.
 
Dali said:
I think anyone that writes... no anyone that's been to college... no anyone that's been to school above the 5th grade knows how grievous a foul plagiarism is considered. If you are a professional writer (by that I simply mean you get paid) then you should be even more aware of this fact than the average joe. The fact that he still committed one of the worst betrayals of writing/journalism/integrity says something about him as a person. He did it. He knew it was wrong. He may do it again as his integrity or the value of his unsullied name didn't stop him the first time.


I'd accept this argument if it wasn't only the smallest and most meaningless "sins" committed by the lowest level guys that got punished like this. As gaming journalism is now, this is imo nothing more than hypocrisy.

The guy stealing the gum knows stealing is wrong, but he also knows you won't be looking at his every move. He may never steal again, but he may also take advantage of the fact that you aren't omniscient. He lost his job because he wasn't trustworthy and Gamepro doesn't have the resources to check all his reviews against all other reviews to see if he is lifting people's words. Rather than risk their good(?) name on the chance Plagi McStealwords has reformed, they let him go to ensure it won't happen again.

A lot of my schoolmates, who later became lawyers or programmers or psychologists stole gum from a shop when they were 16 or 17. Hey, some of them even kicked over trashcans. (And before more "jokes", I was always a huge nerd with no friends and no chance to take part in this kind of stuff :) In fact, I shared the majority sentiment shown in this thread at that time.) This is just a small mistake that people will get over as they're maturing, it's not a sign for sociopathy or anything.
 

duckroll

Member
Flachmatuch said:
I'm not going to argue that this isn't bad, although frankly he didn't even take the ideas of the other writer, just a few generic phrases, but I don't really agree with this. I think a lot of this stuff is overprotected. The worst thing about the article is the lack of attribution.



I think you can be easily considered a busybody if your intrusion causes unnecessary damage.



Imo people should try judge the consequences of their actions for themselves first and not act on simplistic "principles" (which aren't principles btw because they're applied inconsistently and go completely unnoticed with the bigger scale stuff). For some reason I find aiming at people who can be fired in one second (like the guy was) a bit disgusting when the whole industry they're in is so distorted.



I think he should have written the guy a private mail to say "hey someone might notice you copied stuff here, you'd better change it", or write to their boss at worst.



It's a bit OT, but in general, I disagree.



Less plagiarism or, in general, more discipline in gaming journalism wouldn't make it better at all. It has nothing at all to do with what's wrong with gaming journalism. It's part of a system to market games and gaming in general, it's journalism only in name. It would only get better if it became mostly independent from publishers, and that has nothing at all to do with plagiarism at all.

Not going to bother responding to each comment individually, because they all basically just say "my opinion is that people should be allowed to breach moral ethics which I don't really care for to begin with, and the world is a terrible place if it does not condone such behavior in some way" which is pretty unethical and I'm glad society in general is founded on better principals and consequences than what you have in your head. I don't have a very high opinion of society, but you just proved to me that there IS a lower standard that I'm glad we don't all have.
 
duckroll said:
Anyone hired to work for a legitimate enterprise should aspire for professionalism. They are professionals in the sense that they are working in a profession, a specialization. Once again, it does not matter what your opinion of this particular industry is, it doesn't matter because there are rules to be followed.

Considering how much you hate the game journalism profession, I'm surprised you would be angry at someone pointing out an error like this. This can only mean that you want the industry to remain at the low standard you consider it at the moment, and not want it to improve or benefit from corrections. As such I can only assume the worst of you as a person, because you do not advocate for improvements or a higher standard, but instead feel it is irresponsible and shameful to strive for such higher standards. I hope you do not raise any children, if that's what you plan on teaching them about the world. :p

Really well said mate.

I stopped working for the leader italian gaming website a few days ago for the same reasons, among others. It was an helpless case.
The first day my self-called editor in chief told me "hey, play a game for like 10 minutes, you already know if it's worth buying or not. Then go read some international reviews at Ign Gamespot and Eurogamer, and just mix your points with theirs if you have any, and right, for the score, make an average of their scores and put it at the end of the article. There, review is done". :lol

I never wrote about videogames except for university, and i just hang in forums, never read gaming articles besides the very good Game Developer's magazine. I was intrigued to act in this field like i do for music and cinema, but never imagined this level of shit and immaturity. Noone among collegues was qualified in any way, some didn't even finish their education if they even started it, noone even knew the difference between gameplay and game mechanics, and it was a miracle if they could barely write correctly in their own language.
Of course i never did what he asked and that did cost my job. I just wrote articles like the articles i use to write about alpinism, with an obvious adaptation for games: a focus on game mechanics, art and technology, cause that's how i see these kind of articles, and for this view on things i was immediately ostracized, and was just asked to record some gameplay videos. That quickly became my job for clear reasons.

When i questioned him while i was quitting, he felt he was doing something "independent" and "professional".
I asked "what do you consider professional behaviour then", he answered "If I tell you about doing something, do it, on time, no questions asked. That's professionalism" and "do you understand that videogamers are just a bunch of stupid immature ignorants and idiots".

Everytime i think about this, my mind goes to the 1 collegue out of 100 that is ostracized for trying to change the system imposed by the ones that invest money to build such enterprises and want to triple the amount back or more. This kind of journalism really has some serious problems, mostly because 99 journalists out of 100 acted with the chief like complete ruffian collaborationists. Talking about the situation here, of course, don't really know yours, that's why i came to follow your discussion :)
 
duckroll said:
Not going to bother responding to each comment individually, because they all basically just say "my opinion is that people should be allowed to breach moral ethics which I don't really care for to begin with, and the world is a terrible place if it does not condone such behavior in some way" which is pretty unethical and I'm glad society in general is founded on better principals and consequences than what you have in your head. I don't have a very high opinion of society, but you just proved to me that there IS a lower standard that I'm glad we don't all have.

You're completely misunderstanding me. I'm not saying plagiarism is not a bad thing, I'm saying this case is something that could easily be forgiven and doesn't warrant this kind of punishment; and I also don't like this voluntary policeman stuff, especially when it's aimed at the small guy. I also think that focusing on this kind of stuff is a bit hypocritical.
 
Timekiller said:
I stopped working for the leader italian gaming website a few days ago for the same reasons, among others. It was an helpless case.
The first day my self-called editor in chief told me "hey, play a game for like 10 minutes, you already know if it's worth buying or not. Then go read some international reviews at Ign Gamespot and Eurogamer, and just mix your points with theirs if you have any, and right, for the score, make an average of their scores and put it at the end of the article. There, review is done". :lol
...Wow.
 
Flachmatuch said:
You're completely misunderstanding me. I'm not saying plagiarism is not a bad thing, I'm saying this case is something that could easily be forgiven and doesn't warrant this kind of punishment; and I also don't like this voluntary policeman stuff, especially when it's aimed at the small guy. I also think that focusing on this kind of stuff is a bit hypocritical.
33pftav.jpg
 
Timekiller said:
I stopped working for the leader italian gaming website a few days ago for the same reasons, among others. It was an helpless case.
The first day my self-called editor in chief told me "hey, play a game for like 10 minutes, you already know if it's worth buying or not. Then go read some international reviews at Ign Gamespot and Eurogamer, and just mix your points with theirs if you have any, and right, for the score, make an average of their scores and put it at the end of the article. There, review is done". :lol

If you'd done this, and someone had discovered it, would it have been you that was fired or the editor? :-/ I think this is quite different from the first case. If the boss of the guy in question had also been fired, I'd be 100% ok with it.
 
D

Deleted member 20415

Unconfirmed Member
Flachmatuch said:
You're completely misunderstanding me. I'm not saying plagiarism is not a bad thing, I'm saying this case is something that could easily be forgiven and doesn't warrant this kind of punishment; and I also don't like this voluntary policeman stuff, especially when it's aimed at the small guy. I also think that focusing on this kind of stuff is a bit hypocritical.

You're completely out of touch.

Watchdogs come in all forms. Little old ladies making sure the trashmen don't damage property and guys monitoring stories and posting on forums are two sides of the same coin. You're pissed because you got (rightfully) screwed out of some easy money. Next time you have the option to take the shortcut or do your work, you'll think twice, reflect upon what happened and the humility you are feeling now and you'll do the right thing.

Was it really too hard to play the game and take notes while you played?

I'm glad there are guys like the OP calling people out... it will keep people honest.

Flachmatuch said:
If you'd done this, and someone had discovered it, would it have been you that was fired or the editor? :-/ I think this is quite different from the first case. If the boss of the guy in question had also been fired, I'd be 100% ok with it.

You lied, misrepresented your work and you expect to take down more people in your wrath and that would make the situation fine and dandy? You were misrepresenting GamePro and were lining up to do some potential damage to the organization. They have every right to save face, haul you out and flog you publicly to show readers that they mean business and have standards.


Edit: Looks like I've made a mistake and have mistaken Flachmatuch for the writer. I'm willing to man up and say I've made a mistake. I won't edit what I wrote though. that stands... about the writer.
 
If you don't take ethics seriously in any medium, it becomes a slippery slope.

If you don't take it seriously, fine, no one cares. Apparently Gamepro does in some instances. Good for them.
 
El_TigroX said:
You're completely out of touch.

Watchdogs come in all forms. Little old ladies making sure the trashmen don't damage property and guys monitoring stories and posting on forums are two sides of the same coin. You're pissed because you got (rightfully) screwed out of some easy money. Next time you have the option to take the shortcut or do your work, you'll think twice, reflect upon what happened and the humility you are feeling now and you'll do the right thing.

Was it really too hard to play the game and take notes while you played?

I'm glad there are guys like the OP calling people out... it will keep people honest.

I'm Hungarian and never ever wrote even a word for a gaming site. Good work, detective.

You lied, misrepresented your work and you expect to take down more people in your wrath and that would make the situation fine and dandy? You were misrepresenting GamePro and were lining up to do some potential damage to the organization. They have every right to save face, haul you out and flog you publicly to show readers that they mean business and have standards.

Oh, I can feel the righteous rage burning in you. Shame you're completely mistaken.
 
Flachmatuch said:
If you'd done this, and someone had discovered it, would it have been you that was fired or the editor? :-/

Well asked, but the point is: someone who?
Because inside there, anyone knows how things are done, and there's just people who decided this (like the owner) and the other just love this: you appear in a known website, you earn some easy points for earning a jounralist qualification through work (it's called patentino di giornalista pubblicista --> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giornalista_pubblicista), you work in a field that is mistake-forgiving and doesen't require any qualification of any sort, and you earn a fistful of dollars for doing basically just a bunch of easy pieces.
I met just 2 people with an opposite view - out of tens of people.

The public? Anyone that added me to my xboxlive account or STeam account i told em: basically told me "well who cares i already know the world is corrupted, but i love to sip coffee in the morning reading the funny reviews" (funny as in pathetic bullshit).
 
ShockingAlberto said:
If you don't take ethics seriously in any medium, it becomes a slippery slope.

If you don't take it seriously, fine, no one cares. Apparently Gamepro does in some instances. Good for them.
Gamepro has higher ethical standards than Flachmatuch. :lol
 
D

Deleted member 20415

Unconfirmed Member
Flachmatuch said:
I'm Hungarian and never ever wrote even a word for a gaming site. Good work, detective.



Oh, I can feel the righteous rage burning in you. Shame you're completely mistaken.

I amended what I wrote before you edited in the second comment and yes, I made a mistake, I read most of the thread and mistook you for the writer, which apparently you are not. I figured someone arguing on the side of plagiarism has to have personal motivations.

My arguments still stand though, just not directed at you.
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Quick, someone "photoshop" Gamepro's "fun factor scale" inserting the "different expressions" of Flachmatuch's "avatar!"
 
Timekiller said:
Well asked, but the point is: someone who?
Because inside there, anyone knows how things are done, and they just love this: you appear in a known website, you earn some easy points for earning a jounralist qualification through work (it's called patentino di giornalista pubblicista --> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giornalista_pubblicista), you work in a field that is mistake-forgiving and earn however a fistful of dollars for doing basically a bunch of bullshits.

The public? Anyone that added me to my xboxlive account or STeam account i told em: basically told me "well who cares i already know the world is corrupted, but i love to sip coffee in the morning reading the funny reviews" (funny as in pathetic bullshit).

Again, I'm not saying it's not a problem. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I just think it's hypocritical and that the punishment is too severe. If this is common practice, even more so.

I think I have this opinion partly probably because I live in Hungary and we trust the law and simple clear-cut rules a lot less than you guys. Even seeing "call this number if this driver is a shithead" on trucks is a bit negative for me (and a lot of Hungarians I know). I can't avoid asking "why did the guy do this and why didn't the system he works in teach him not to do it and filter it", simply because he's a low-level grunt. Nothing to do with ethical standards imo.
 

GameGamer

Member
morningbus said:
I'll agree that videogame journalism will never be the same as political journalism, I just don't think it has to be. If journalists were to ask Nintendo the same kind of questions that are asked of politicians, it'd be ridiculous.


Yes, how very ridiculous to ask large, publicly traded, multi-national corporations, serious questions about their product and developers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIDsTsWJHw


"PS3 still dominating" in 2007.


What you said is one of the many reasons I can't find game journalism, and the people that are attracted to it, worthy of any respect.
 

inner-G

Banned
Flachmatuch said:
You're completely misunderstanding me. I'm not saying plagiarism is not a bad thing, I'm saying this case is something that could easily be forgiven and doesn't warrant this kind of punishment; and I also don't like this voluntary policeman stuff, especially when it's aimed at the small guy. I also think that focusing on this kind of stuff is a bit hypocritical.
I don't believe that it should be easily forgiven. At all.

It doesn't matter if it's the 'small guy'. Small guys can be just as guilty as big guys, and their status doesn't make what they do any less illegal or immoral.
 
El_TigroX said:
I amended what I wrote before you edited in the second comment and yes, I made a mistake, I read most of the thread and mistook you for the writer, which apparently you are not. I figured someone arguing on the side of plagiarism has to have personal motivations.

My arguments still stand though, just not directed at you.

I don't really care hehe. I'd just like to get my point across tbh. I've seen too many peons blamed and punished for systemic problems and mismanagement to agree with this stuff too easily.

inner-G said:
I don't believe that it should be easily forgiven. At all.

It doesn't matter if it's the 'small guy'. Small guys can be just as guilty as big guys, and their status doesn't make what they do any less illegal or immoral.

I'd be 100% ok with this if the editor had also been fired, really. That'd mean that the whole site was taking responsibility, not just trying to push it on to the most worthless and easily replacable part.
 
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