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[Myggen]

Turns out that he's a weird conservative conspiracy theorist. His first tweets on this were literally sandwiched between tweets about how "social justice movements" are actually stealth communism, and how global warming is a hoax.

Yeah, he's been a nut for years now. Not surprising that he wants to get in on this even though he has probably never played a game all his life.

I actually think it started as gamers pushing back from valid criticisms of their hobby (which include some misogynistic assholes). But with pieces like Alexander's and this collective push by activists/journalists to kill the "Gamer" label, it's pushed people that SHOULD be their audience into the GamersGate thing, because they are on the defensive. Because not all gamers are assholes, or are resisting criticism/changes (and I know, Alexander and others aren't saying all gamers are this). But by trying to get rid of the gamer label, or telling people what they should or shouldn't identify with, it's roped everyone into what seems like an attack on them.

Realistically speaking, we have a massive problem here. The amount of hatred being spewed at females in gaming, or anyone that has any criticism of this industry, is unacceptable. But I also feel that people are going about this argument the wrong way. The push to end the gamer label has backfired and has pushed away those that should be their audience (they people they need to educate on the issues).

But why do people care about what some writers they don't even like or care about say about "gamers"? Who gives a shit? Jeff Gerstmann has been saying for years now that "gamer" is a bullshit name made by marketers and that most people who identify that much with their hobby to go around calling themselves a "gamer" or a "foodie" or anything like that is probably an asshole (he made the same point at the GB panel at PAX on Saturday). Why has he never been attacked for voicing that opinion? I just can't find the motivation to care about what some writers think of me as a "gamer", and for a lot of these people I think it's being used as an excuse to attack people they don't like in th industry (aka women). Some people may have been offended, but why go on the attack against others?

 

[robovanburen]

No it isn't. The goal is for, and I quote from one of the most reposted images about the situation on /v/: "Contrary to what you might believe, #GAMERGATE is not about Zoe Quinn: it is a stand against corrupt journalism in the gaming press, from honest gamers that want game journalists to have good ethical standards"

Well hey, if one image being passed around says that, then it's gospel, right? Please. This isn't a coherent movement with set goals and leadership. This is a disorganized group of people, some of whom are wielding pitchforks.

 

[JJDinomite]

I give this thread a 10/10, it's alright.

 

[Zaph]

Turns out that he's a weird conservative conspiracy theorist. His first tweets on this were literally sandwiched between tweets about how "social justice movements" are actually stealth communism, and how global warming is a hoax.

So he's fucking crazy? Great.

Yeah, any sane person who actually has legitimate concerns regarding press ethics need to abandon this, wait for the harassment to hopefully die down, then reform under a completely different banner.

The position of the enthusiast press is an on-going conversation, there is no 'fix'. This thread alone began two years ago.

 

[Curufinwe]

Honestly, what is a site like Giant Bomb supposed to put out? They are far from neutral in this to report on it in any way.

edit: You know, a "letter from the editor" type of thing would be interesting comming from Jeff Gerstmann.

He already did one.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/letter-from-the-editor-07-02-2014/1100-4948/

 

[Mononoke]

Yeah, he's been a nut for years now. Not surprising that he wants to get in on this even though he has probably never played a game all his life.



But why do people care about what some writers they don't even like or care about say about "gamers"? Who gives a shit? Jeff Gerstmann has been saying for years now that "gamer" is a bullshit name made by marketers and that most people who identify that much with their hobby to go around calling themselves a "gamer" or a "foodie" or anything like that is probably an asshole (he made the same point at the GB panel at PAX on Saturday). Why has he never been attacked for voicing that opinion? I just can't find the motivation to care about what some writers think of me as a "gamer", and for a lot of these people I think it's being used as an excuse to attack people they don't like in th industry (aka women). Some people may have been offended, but why go on the attack against others?

Because some people like labels. Labels aren't unique to gaming (as a hobby). People generally like to line themselves up with cultures they can relate to. And many people like to identify themselves when they relate so closely to a culture (or it helps inform their identity). Because many hobbies have sub-cultures, people then relate to that culture, and thus identify with them.

Telling people that the should not identify as gamer, or telling people what they should or shouldn't identify themselves with is nonsense. If everyone admits that not all people in this hobby/industry are assholes, then they have to accept that many of these people identify as gamers. Just because some don't, doesn't give them the right to shame those that do. It doesn't give them the right to tell them they shouldn't identify as such. It doesn't give someone the right to declare that the label is over (when so many still use it or identify with it). How arrogant.

And if their goal is to educate people about the problems of this industry, and point out the bad behavior of those that are resisting change or being open to legitimate criticism, trying to kill a label that many identify with is not the way to go about it.

 

[mnz]

He already did one.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/letter-from-the-editor-07-02-2014/1100-4948/

Well, I meant a new one. This was about something else.

 

[MHWilliams]

The first use of #GamerGate, according to Topsy analytics:

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

The first use of #notyourshield:
https://twitter.com/Ninouh90/status/507019008009195520

Some have purported that the second tag is being co-opted by 4Chan, with this screenshot. No way to know if that's real.

 

[Myggen]

Because some people like labels. Labels aren't unique to gaming (as a hobby). People generally like to line themselves up with cultures they can relate to. And many people like to identify themselves when they relate so closely to a culture (or it helps inform their identity). Because many hobbies have sub-cultures, people then relate to that culture, and thus identify with them.

Telling people that the should not identify as gamer, or telling people what they should or shouldn't identify themselves with is nonsense. If everyone admits that not all people in this hobby/industry are assholes, then they have to accept that many of these people like the "gamer" identity. Just because some don't, doesn't give them the right to shame those that do. It doesn't give them the right to tell them they shouldn't identify as such.

And if their goal is to educate people about the problems of this industry, and point out the bad behavior of those that are resisting change or being open to legitimate criticism, trying to kill a label many like isn't really the right way to go about it.

Fair enough, but again, who gives a shit? That some people want to "kill the gamer label", whatever that really means, isn't a reason to go around attacking people, and it honestly shouldn't be important enough to make a movement out of.

But anyways, as I said before, gamergate has become toxic and people should move away from it now even if they agreed with the original premise. Discuss ethics in journalism all day and all night, but that movement has turned into something else entirely. It should be abandoned by everyone except for the extremists, and then people can discuss this as sane people under another banner when this calms down. Probably too much to ask though.

 

[Mononoke]

Fair enough, but again, who gives a shit? That some people want to "kill the gamer label", whatever that really means, isn't a reason to go around attacking people, and it honestly shouldn't be important enough to make a movement out of.

But anyways, as I said before, gamergate has become toxic and people should move away from it now even if they agreed with the original premise. Discuss ethics in journalism all day and all night, but that movement has turned into something else entirely. It should be abandoned by everyone except for the extremists, and then people can discuss this as sane people under another banner when this calms down. Probably too much to ask though.

People that identify with it...care? I don't know.

I agree it's kind of silly/semantics. As I said in another thread, I think people need to take a step back, and look at how much harassment females/journalists are getting. Even if they were insulted, can they honestly say that they are even remotely going through the same kind of thing (especially when others deal with it DAILY).

Still, I think it was a poor choice by the activist/journalist side to frame the argument the way they did. But I also can't blame them for lashing out. I mean, if you had to put up with that kind of hatred day in and day out, eventually you are going to snap. While I personally don't identify myself as a gamer (I do identify a lot with the culture though), I still think it's arrogant to say a label is "over". I still think it's dumb to tell people what they should and shouldn't identify themselves with.

 

[unbias]

Fair enough, but again, who gives a shit? That some people want to "kill the gamer label", whatever that really means, isn't a reason to go around attacking people, and it honestly shouldn't be important enough to make a movement out of.

But anyways, as I said before, gamergate has become toxic and people should move away from it now even if they agreed with the original premise. Discuss ethics in journalism all day and all night, but that movement has turned into something else entirely. It should be abandoned by everyone except for the extremists, and then people can discuss this as sane people under another banner when this calms down. Probably too much to ask though.

People would rather click and get angry, then not click and ignore it. I dont get it either. Also, I think many are arguing to argue.

 

[Tetsuo9]

Complete series of tweets:

On the one hand I can understand their frustration on the scale of personal attacks, but in my field of work (contractor in environmental industry) I get shit by my clients on a daily basis. If I just say to them to not work with me again because or personal attacks and general angriness then I would be out of bussiness in about 2 months.

I really can't figure out what they can do to stop this #gamergate campaign, saying to everyone to not visit their websites again then its gonna lead to even more hate. Like it or not #gamergate people are not gonna suddenly go away.

 

[Zaph]

On the one hand I can understand their frustration on the scale of personal attacks, but in my field of work (contractor in environmental industry) I get shit by my clients on a daily basis. If I just say to them to not work with me again because or personal attacks and general angriness then I would be out of bussiness in about 2 months.

Those two situations are not comparable in the slightest.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

EDIT: Adding in my original comment so people can follow the conversation easier since I will not comment on the issue any further here

I believe the original intent was to expose corruption and a lack of transparency within the industry but the whole movement has morphed into something else. There's extremists on both sides, really.

This is a load of bullshit. There are not "extremists on both sides." There are people who harass other people, and then there are people who don't. A feminist tweeting "kill all the gamers" might be tasteless, but it is not harassment. Sending messages to a writer with imgur spam saying she's corrupt and should be fired is harassment, and anyone who supports it should be banned from video games forever.

So you think feminists tweeting 'kill all the gamers' is tasteless, but not an example of extremism? There aren't people on twitter harassing users who are questioning the issue of corruption withing the industry either? Sorry but I think both sides have people on the fringes behaving irrationally. Does that mean I'm trying to blame the victims or marginalize the issue of harassment towards women? Heck no, I'm just trying to mention that there's people on both sides provoking one another which is in contrast to your one sided narrative.

It's unacceptable that MRAs and other trolls have hijacked a message and used it as an excuse to attack women in the industry, I think we can all agree that is indefensible, but you're just ignoring the fact that there are people on each side taking things too far, and dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you as posting 'a load of bullshit'. That is extremism. Unfortunately it's this way with everything, be it politics, video games, sports..whatever. I don't have a horse in this race and am still trying to gather all the facts to better inform myself using multiple sources, but even I can see that there's people saying/doing dumb things on both sides. Look at Phil Fish if you want a high profile example. Good intentions, bad execution.

Probably going to abandon thread and lurk, this is an issue I think we all have to be careful about. Just wanted to post my thoughts.

 

[Platy]

Anyone knows where this comes from ?

A few people appeared in my timeline atacking it .... I don't want to believe that it is real

 

[Myggen]

On the one hand I can understand their frustration on the scale of personal attacks, but in my field of work (contractor in environmental industry) I get shit by my clients on a daily basis. If I just say to them to not work with me again because or personal attacks and general angriness then I would be out of bussiness in about 2 months.

I really can't figure out what they can do to stop this #gamergate campaign, saying to everyone to not visit their websites again then its gonna lead to even more hate. Like it or not #gamergate people are not gonna suddenly go away.

Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you're not welcome to the site if you think this shit (the personal attacks) is okay is a good thing to me. Speaking up about it is better than keeping silent. Also, what Jenn Frank got was a bit more than just normal personal attacks.

 

[MHWilliams]

Anyone knows where this comes from ?

A few people appeared in my timeline atacking it .... I don't want to believe that it is real

*IMAGE*

Nothing on Google Image Search, so it hard to tell if that's real or not.

 

[Phades]

Anyone knows where this comes from ?

A few people appeared in my timeline atacking it .... I don't want to believe that it is real

WTF did I just read and who is that from?

This is getting orchestrated in a very militant way now. ><;

 

[Mononoke]

WTF did I just read and who is that from?

This is getting orchestrated in a very militant way now. ><;

No idea if it's real. But this isn't surprising at all. They've been doing this sort of things for years. Not that it makes it any less horrible. It just doesn't surprise me if that sort of thing is real.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well, I meant a new one. This was about something else.

That letter was about him standing firm against internet abuse. What would you like a new one to be about?

 

[Phades]

No idea if it's real. But this isn't surprising at all. They've been doing this sort of things for years. Not that it makes it any less horrible. It just doesn't surprise me if that sort of thing is real.

In a way, I was expecting a hijacking. Just... Not like that. It is hard to wrap my head around the idea that there are enough people with nothing better to do, or rather have no need to pursue other things recreationally or monetiarially than this sort of thing.

 

[jordisok]

The first use of #GamerGate, according to Topsy analytics:

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

.

what the hell if the first use of it actually came from him, he's not even a real baldwin

EDIT: Gsak, that you have abandoned the Gamergate term/hashtag is quite indicative of its problems, seeing as you were a big proponent of it in this thread (I mean this as no judgement). Good for you being able to admit that.

 

[Tetsuo9]

Drawing a line in the sand and saying that you're not welcome to the site if you think this shit (the personal attacks) is okay is a good thing to me. Speaking up about it is better than keeping silent. Also, what Jenn Frank got was a bit more than just normal personal attacks.

But I do wonder if there is another way. I would imagine that their PR and community people should have a say on this.

 

[Gsak]

I used to be pro GamerGate, because I do want corruption to be minimized/stopped if possible. But after Jenn Frank being driven out and attacked by people (including MRAs who hijacked the GamerGate tag) who didn't even know who she was and what her work was, I'm done.

Some of GamerGate's points are interesting and deserve to be discussed, but this ended up being a hate parade. And I won't be a part of it. If anything I plan to write a piece about this whole mess.

Apart from the obvious morons from every side who are bigots, Twitter acting like an echo chamber does not help at all.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

But I do wonder if there is another way. I would imagine that their PR and community people should have a say on this.

GiantBomb's PR people? You apparently don't know much about GiantBomb my friend

I used to be pro GamerGate, because I do want corruption to be minimized/stopped if possible. But after Jenn Frank being driven out and attacked by people (including MRAs who hijacked the GamerGate tag) who didn't even know who she was and what her work was, I'm done.

Some of GamerGate's points are interesting and deserve to be discussed, but this ended up being a hate parade. And I won't be a part of it. If anything I plan to write a piece about this whole mess.

Apart from the obvious morons from every side who are bigots, Twitter acting like an echo chamber does not help at all.

See, that's the problem. There cannot be a good discussion about this because there are too many idiots who will destroy it.

 

[Mononoke]

In a way, I was expecting a hijacking. Just... Not like that. It is hard to wrap my head around the idea that there are enough people with nothing better to do, or rather have no need to pursue other things recreationally or monetiarially than this sort of thing.

They do a lot worse then this. People are capable of some truly evil shit. Especially when you have a community of people that fosters hatred. It gets pretty depressing when you see what people are willing to do to other people. Just a complete lack of empathy.

I used to be pro GamerGate, because I do want corruption to be minimized/stopped if possible. But after Jenn Frank being driven out and attacked by people (including MRAs who hijacked the GamerGate tag) who didn't even know who she was and what her work was, I'm done.

Some of GamerGate's points are interesting and deserve to be discussed, but this ended up being a hate parade. And I won't be a part of it. If anything I plan to write a piece about this whole mess.

Apart from the obvious morons from every side who are bigots, Twitter acting like an echo chamber does not help at all.

Good for you. I don't blame you for initially being for it, because the surface level propositions being pushed sound reasonable enough (well, I disagree with some of the points). But I really think this entire movement was ALWAYS (under the surface) motivated by negative intentions. And I think sadly, a lot of people that are for the stuff being proposed, don't realize that there is actually a push underneath it all to resist legitimate criticisms. That the GamerGate thing is just a disguise.

Doesn't help that the other side is telling everyone the Gamer label is over. Or that people shouldn't choose what they identify with.

 

[Moon_frogger]

If Jenn frank really is quitting games writing that's a big loss for everybody.

 

[silentQ]

Reading this Jenn Frank stuff it feels like the last straw.

I have been for looking into all that went down and I am coming to a simple conclusion the Reddit and 4Chan are going to eat the business alive if they keep knocking people out at this rate. The video game communities at these sites just seem to be a cancer to the industry.

It just makes me so angry that these communities won't let this thing die. It was one thing when people where discussing and criticizing the way Games Journalism and Game Dev worked politically but these attacks have gotten out of hand and I just wish these boards would go away. A bit harsh I know but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

 

[Myggen]

If Jenn frank really is quitting games writing that's a big loss for everybody.

Very true.

 

[benicillin]

If Jenn frank really is quitting games writing that's a big loss for everybody.

Very true.

Man, the Internet is a truly awful place sometimes. I've taken my shot at games writing because I'm passionate about it, but if this is the kind of stuff we have to look forward to then no thanks.

 

[Mononoke]

Reading this Jenn Frank stuff it feels like the last straw.

I have been for looking into all that went down and I am coming to a simple conclusion the Reddit and 4Chan are going to eat the business alive if they keep knocking people out at this rate. The video game communities at these sites just seem to be a cancer to the industry.

It just makes me so angry that these communities won't let this thing die. It was one thing when people where discussing and criticizing the way Games Journalism and Game Dev worked politically but these attacks have gotten out of hand and I just wish these boards would go away. A bit harsh I know but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

It's definitely a serious problem. I don't really see an end in sight. Because at the end of the day, you can't force people to behave. You can't stop people from being assholes. And if females/journalists have to keep dealing with this environment, it's just going to lead to them fighting back and forth with these people (because all they can do is keep being vocal and keep going after this demographic that is causing problems). Thing is, it's not even like they want to fight them. They literally can't do their job, or voice their opinion without being attacked. So it's not even a case of just ignoring them they are having to defend themselves!

So I expect this will just continue to be a toxic environment if you are someone that is in the industry or someone that keeps up on it. The average consumer probably won't be aware of this. Those that just buy games and don't really pay attention beyond just release dates and playing games. And I can't see that many devs/publishers coming down too hard on it, because at the end of the day this is a business. And any kind of substantial stance that could rock the boat with any kind of demographic can risk $$$. I think this is going to drive people out on the female/journalist side, as well as those that are in the middle and haven't taken a side.

The media side can continue to cover it. But it's only going to further the divide. But really, if you were someone that had to deal with this shit every day, you too would be doing everything in your power to keep fighting for what is right. The blame should be 100% on the assholes ruining this industry for everyone else. I guess I'm just not optimistic.

The only hope i have is that, Devs start to make changes naturally through their games. And so that over time, these changes start to become common place. Really it's the only way I see this eventually moving things in a positive direction. So in that sense, activist have done a lot of good, at least in the sense that they've made the issues more apparent (so that on the Dev side of things, they can be aware of these major criticisms).

 

[buddha0991]

Nothing on Google Image Search, so it hard to tell if that's real or not.

WTF did I just read and who is that from?

This is getting orchestrated in a very militant way now. ><;

No idea if it's real. But this isn't surprising at all. They've been doing this sort of things for years. Not that it makes it any less horrible. It just doesn't surprise me if that sort of thing is real.

It is real but from what I saw, most replies to that on /v/ consisted of people telling that guy to fuck off

 

[silentQ]

It's definitely a serious problem. I don't really see an end in sight. Because at the end of the day, you can't force people to behave. You can't stop people from being assholes. And if females/journalists have to keep dealing with this environment, it's just going to lead to them fighting back and forth with these people (because all they can do is keep being vocal and keep going after this demographic that is causing problems). Thing is, it's not even like they want to fight them. They literally can't do their job, or voice their opinion without being attacked. So it's not even a case of just ignoring them they are having to defend themselves!

So I expect this will just continue to be a toxic environment if you are someone that is in the industry or someone that keeps up on it. The average consumer probably won't be aware of this. Those that just buy games and don't really pay attention beyond just release dates and playing games. And I can't see that many devs/publishers coming down too hard on it, because at the end of the day this is a business. And any kind of extreme stance that could rock the boat with any kind of demographic can risk $$$. I think this is going to drive people out on the female/journalist side, as well as those that are in the middle and haven't taken a side (you could argue they should, that them not picking a side is apart of the problem).

The media side can continue to cover it. But it's only going to further the divide. But really, if you were someone that had to deal with this shit every day, you too would be doing everything in your power to keep fighting for what is right. The blame should be 100% on the assholes ruining this industry for everyone else. I guess I'm just not optimistic.

The only hope i have is that, Devs start to make changes naturally through their games. And so that over time, these changes start to become common place.

Too me its a problem that maybe Reddit and 4Chan the hosts of these communities can just draw a line or even reboot these communities. I figure the mods in charge may understand the levity and seriousness of the issue at this point and just ban conversation on it. I know its censoring but at this point the topic is talked to death and these people can't say they didn't have there forum to talk about it. Its been 2 weeks the topic has spiraled out of control and is harmful to games community as a whole. Just end the thing already.

 

[Imperfected]

WTF did I just read and who is that from?

This is getting orchestrated in a very militant way now. ><;

Flame war... flame war has changed. Hashtagged shitposts on hashtagged forums. Proxy accounts for private interest groups fight proxy campaigns on Twitter. Nanomachines.

 

[Mononoke]

Too me its a problem that maybe Reddit and 4Chan the hosts of these communities can just draw a line or even reboot these communities. I figure the mods in charge may understand the levity and seriousness of the issue at this point and just ban conversation on it. I know its censoring but at this point the topic is talked to death and these people can't say they didn't have there forum to talk about it. Its been 2 weeks the topic has spiraled out of control and is harmful to games community as a whole. Just end the thing already.

4chan will never moderate itself or reform, because it goes against the very reason for its existence. I guess Reddit could take a harder stance. But Reddit wants to appear as a site where people are free to upvote the content they want to discuss. If they intervene, then the site is no longer a place where you can truly decide what content makes it tot the top. They rarely step in. It took them forever just to remove the jailbait/creepshot subreddit. Adn they only did so, after major media outlets (like Anderson Cooper) went after them for the content they hosted. As much as I hate the content, none of this is illegal (i mean content wise, not talking about raid threads or subreddits dedicated to harassing).

They could..start deleting Reddit threads/subreddits aimed at harassing people. Sure. That's a step. But I think this goes beyond 4chan/Reddit. If those sites didn't exist, there would still be people doing this. It's why journalists and activists are so frustrated and angry. While I do not agree with their stance that the gamer label is over, or that people should be forced to abandon it (or risk being shamed), I can understand their anger towards the label. As the people that are resisting change and waging war on people are people that use this label as justification for keeping people out.

 

[Phades]

Flame war... flame war has changed. Hashtagged shitposts on hashtagged forums. Proxy accounts for private interest groups fight proxy campaigns on Twitter. Nanomachines.

I appreciate the humorous direction. Thanks.

So, where is snake to take out that metal gear?

 

[silentQ]

4chan will never moderate itself or reform, because it goes against the very reason for its existence. I guess Reddit could take a harder stance. But Reddit wants to appear as a site where people are free to upvote the content they want to discuss. If they intervene, then the site is no longer a place where you can truly decide what content makes it tot the top. They rarely step in. It took them forever just to remove the jailbait/creepshot subreddit. Adn they only did so, after major media outlets (like Anderson Cooper) went after them for the content they hosted.

They could..start deleting Reddit threads/subreddits aimed at harassing people. Sure. That's a step. But I think this goes beyond 4chan/Reddit. If those sites didn't exist, there would still be people doing this.

Oh I agree the people wouldn't go away but it would lessen support for this behaivor. I am pretty sure people in those communities wouldn't be happy if these morons forced the mods to clamp down on there unfiltered conversation as a punishment. By not policing the forum it leads to extreme behavior like this being supported and not frowned upon.

 

[Mononoke]

Oh I agree the people wouldn't go away but it would lessen support for this behaivor. I am pretty sure people in those communities wouldn't be happy if these morons forced the mods to clamp down on there unfiltered conversation as a punishment. By not policing the forum it leads to extreme behavior like this being supported and not frowned upon.

I can agree it would help. But I still think there will always be another community to pop up. Another site that would foster this hate (look at how many MRA sites exist now. How many communities are active). Basically, I just see this as a long road ahead.

Thing is, it's not like you can really complain. I mean again, females/journalists have had to deal with this shit for years. They deal with it constantly. Now a lot of people are getting a small taste of that as this is creating a toxic environment that anyone in the industry now has to be exposed to. It's their reality, that is now everyone's new reality.

 

[Armaros]

4chan will never moderate itself or reform, because it goes against the very reason for its existence. I guess Reddit could take a harder stance. But Reddit wants to appear as a site where people are free to upvote the content they want to discuss. If they intervene, then the site is no longer a place where you can truly decide what content makes it tot the top. They rarely step in. It took them forever just to remove the jailbait/creepshot subreddit. Adn they only did so, after major media outlets (like Anderson Cooper) went after them for the content they hosted. As much as I hate the content, none of this is illegal (i mean content wise, not talking about raid threads or subreddits dedicated to harassing).

They could..start deleting Reddit threads/subreddits aimed at harassing people. Sure. That's a step. But I think this goes beyond 4chan/Reddit. If those sites didn't exist, there would still be people doing this. It's why journalists and activists are so frustrated and angry. While I do not agree with their stance that the gamer label is over, or that people should be forced to abandon it (or risk being shamed), I can understand their anger towards the label. As the people that are resisting change and waging war on people are people that use this label as justification for keeping people out.

It's not the sites themselves, it's the easy ability to step into an echo chamber.

The same happened in the past, but they were much smaller and had a muh harder time coalesceing into a singular giant mob.

The current eniviroment is so connected, any small thing can gain a massive following no matter how true or blatantly false or out of context it is and it can just exponentially grow out of proportion of the what it started as.

Edit: phone typing corrections.

 

[RadarScope1]

The first use of #GamerGate, according to Topsy analytics:

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

The first use of #notyourshield:
https://twitter.com/Ninouh90/status/507019008009195520

Some have purported that the second tag is being co-opted by 4Chan, with this screenshot. No way to know if that's real.

What the actual fuck. Wow. Great find if true.

EDIT: Is this new thread worthy? Known conspiracy theorist starts movement hashtag/shit storm?

 

[unround]

Yep. They are pretty hands off on a lot of things. The admins have pretty much said they refuse to moderate their site, because it risks the freedom of the site. Like I said, they'll only step in when it's something illegal (like CP), and even then, only when they get a lot of negative media attention.

Or when a black woman gets too pissed off about racism, apparently: http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditS...a_the_admins_are_now_banning_black_women_who/

That place is an absolute cesspit right from the top

 

[silentQ]

It's not the sites themselves, it's the easy ability to step into an echo chamber.

The same happened in the past, but they were much smaller and had a muh harder time coalesceing into a singular giant mob.

The current eniviroment is so connected, any small thing can gain white following no matter how true or blatantly false or out of context it is and it can just exponentially grow out of proportion of the what it started as.

Your very right about the current environment being so connected but another point with modding more is you break one of the links in the chain. Reddit gives the hate a large echo chamber to work with and thus more platforms effected. Basically if you cut a link in the chain of hate maybe its possible to lessen the effects on other platforms and thus this spreading to the point of people getting hacked and pushed out of the business.

 

[shootfast]

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...sts_declare_the_gamers_are_over_but_they.html

Gamers are not the problem, game journalism is the problem.

 

[Myggen]

What the actual fuck. Wow. Great find if true.

Yeah, Baldwin is really active about this on Twitter. He's going on a radio show with the dude who made that original Zoe Quinn video on YT that blew up, is tweeting at Patrick Klepek and stuff like that. He's an absolute nutjob if you look at what he's posting about other subjects too, not exactly the kind of dude you want to be the face of your campaign (or maybe he is to a lot of these extremists).

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...sts_declare_the_gamers_are_over_but_they.html

Gamers are not the problem, game journalism is the problem.

Extremists are the problem.

 

[Entryhazard]

All of this mess happened because the gaming media involved refused to apologize and/or accept accountability or in any way commit to adherence to any kind of higher standard of journalism. Instead, they turned on the gaming community, accusing their audience to be basically shit.

 

[poorlonelycomputer]

Anyone knows where this comes from ?

A few people appeared in my timeline atacking it .... I don't want to believe that it is real

"Girls being victimized" lol. If it is a troll it's a pretty clever one.

 

[timetokill]

this reminds me of #occupy in a way. there is nobody at the helm, no single demand to point to, and a lot of people who are upset and have decided to rally together despite their differences.

and similarly, all that's left to attack are single people, strawmen or bogeymen, while claiming it's the whole group.

 

[Shingro]

The thing that kills me about the whole thing is that the transformation of the hashtag is just going to reinforce the "circled wagons" nature of the games press and reinforce the negative associations they have to their public.

If the whole gamers gate thing had been based around a "Hey, don't you progressive people have a lot of experience understanding how crummy it is to define how someone else is and isn't supposed to identify themselves?" There'd be a chance for similar ground. Instead it's all "'They' believe _____" and that they just keeps getting broader and broader.

There is rotten people in gaming, it'd be nice if it wasn't all that the games press was paying attention to.

Hell even moderate posts ( http://ellaguro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/on-gamers-and-identity.html seems to be pretty even handed in approach at least ) are taking a sort of "Well, maybe we goofed when we laughed at the whole violence thing" (near the end( and even bringing up all the old "Video games train soldiers" stuff.

This doesn't seem to be going well for reasonable approaches on either side.

 

[robovanburen]

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...sts_declare_the_gamers_are_over_but_they.html

Gamers are not the problem, game journalism is the problem.

Cool, because I was just thinking "Hey, we need some more clickbait to throw this further out of perspective." If there weren't any journos to harass, they'd be yelling at developers or each other.

All of this mess happened because the gaming media involved refused to apologize and/or accept accountability or in any way commit to adherence to any kind of higher standard of journalism. Instead, they turned on the gaming community, accusing their audience to be basically shit.

Shortened version: "Don't generalize gamers. Generalize game journalists instead."

 

[Myggen]

All of this mess happened because the gaming media involved refused to apologize and/or accept accountability or in any way commit to adherence to any kind of higher standard of journalism. Instead, they turned on the gaming community, accusing their audience to be basically shit.

Accept accountability for what exactly? The whole thing started with people making up shit about the whole Zoe Quinn controversy (that it had anything to do with game journalism), and the ball has kept rolling since then.