RavageDark
Member
Blitz: The League. The loads were freaking atrocious.
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Games that have ZERO respect for the player's time
- Thread starter RedZaraki
- Start date
eot
Banned
Not every game is about making progress every minute of play, and not all forms of progress come in the form of literally progressing further in the game. Repeating content in Souls games has nothing to do with not respecting the players' time. If you don't like it that's fine though.
So those secrets are not for you then. That's fine, isn't it?
They're in no way essential to progressing through the game, but they enrich the game for those who discover them on their own. Rewarding players for fully exploring the game world is part of why people love these games.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I hate this sentiment for a barrage of reasons.
I hate telling others to not bother engaging with content because they might not enjoy it. If I want to play Metroid to give it a chance, to contribute and indulge in its cultural impact, or to see if I still hate it, those I feel are perfectly valid reasons to play it.
I want to enjoy every piece of media I indulge in, and I want Metroid to change to fit my own desires. If that's what you don't want, that's fine, we can all have our different opinions. But to tell others to not bother feels so close-minded. Also, I like exploring just fine, I gave examples of games I think exploring does right. Getting lost is what I think is a waste of time, and I think Metroid spends way too much time on being lost than exploring. I do not think exploring and getting lost are the same thing.
Besides, I feel my answer addresses the subjective question in the OP, so I think my posts are all valid, whether you agree with them or not.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Yeah and then they make you do 8 generic MMO-style quests to "earn" your license.
Fuck you, I already made first contact with like 4 alien species, identified the primary threat to humanity, funded the R&D of several arms manufacturers, and singlehandedly established NLA's miranium mining operation.
For that matter, every mission in that game has several generic MMO quests embedded in it, no matter how hokey the connection is. My favorite was "my father disapproves of me marrying a human, will you help me? Okay great! Here's a list of rare flowers I want for my wedding, go fetch them!" God fuck you assholes. I'm a member of Blade and there is literally a
doomsday clock counting down above our heads.
eot
Banned
A game asking for a lot of your time isn't the same as a game not respecting your time. A lot of people enjoy being lost and mapping out a large virtual space in their head, and the feeling you get from that can't be replicated by a game that doesn't allow you to get lost. If it's there for a reason and people get something out of it then I don't see how it's disrespectful of someone's time. You not enjoying it is a different matter.
When you're lost and trying to get your bearings, you're actually doing something. It's quite different from a game asking you to grind for three hours or something.
Also, asking a game to fit your desires is something I fundamentally disagree with. All games can't be for everyone. Play the games you like instead of demanding the games other people like should be more like the games that you like.
chromatic9
Member
Shenmue not been mentioned?
This game actually mocks the players time
This game actually mocks the players time
I never felt this way about Okami except whenever Issun talked. If he didnt exist to constantly spell out obvious shit repeatedly with no way to skip text, I wouldnt have a time waste complaint.
Vinegar Joe
Member
Yeah, not to mention the sheer amount of grinding you're required to do if you want to progress the story. Resource gathering and mining was bad enough, but I gave up when it was trying to force me to grind that affinity nonsense with a character I didn't even like.
Pity, because I enjoyed the game otherwise, and a few simple tweaks could have made it much more friendly to people with full time jobs.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
For exploration to be legitimately interesting, you need to be capable of getting lost. Otherwise it is just hollow.
You've answered your own question here. The reason you can't pause when offline is because the developers clearly want to make the online and offline experiences as similar as possible. That's why the games include developer messages, developer ghosts, AI co-op phantoms, scripted invasions, etc. So it follows that you wouldn't be able to pause in offline mode too, since the game is trying to mimic the online experience.
Spieler Eins
Member
Super Paper Mario. Overly long and empty walkways, more text than in the actual RPG mainline games and puzzles forcing you to write down overly long codes, among other things, consitute some of the most blatant padding I've ever seen.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I'm fine with games asking for a lot of my time. I like RPGs quite a bit, I'm currently finding every scrap of free time to play Pokemon and right after I beat it I have Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse to return to. Both are gigantic games that demand a metric ton of time investment, which I am 100% okay with. The main difference is every time I play one of these games, I can have a 5 minute-30 minute play session and leave knowing that I accomplished something. I gained something out of it and made more progress towards my final goals.
What I am -100% okay with is having all of this time basically having accomplished nothing, because I was running in circles for the entire time. I'm very goal oriented, so investing time into something only to have it essentially be time wasted is one of the worst things a piece of media can do. Shin Megami Tensei IV was guilty of this, but Apocalyse is doing better, thankfully. We just have different definitions of wasting someone's time, and that's okay. Someone mentioned CoD's campaign for being disrespectful, and by my definition I strongly disagree, because every time I put in CoD and play its singleplayer, I leave having made significant progress towards any micro or macro goal. The opposite in Metroid.
And yes, we fundamentally disagree on that last point. I thoroughly believe enjoyment of any media is subjective and everyone's vision of an ideal work is different than somebody else's and that's 100% okay with. In fact, this diversity is something I love and embrace.
And no, I will absolutely knowingly enter games I dislike for any reason I choose, I don't limit myself to my comfort zone. I don't demand anything, I simply criticize for my own subjective reasons and people can take it or leave it as they will. I do not lose any sleep over it, there is no demanding.
I thoroughly disagree on a fundamental level.
This game is really mediocre. I played for about 30 hours before giving up on it. It's pretty obvious Monolith wanted to do a MMO and Nintendo said no so they made a single player RPG crafted like a MMO with an annoying online mode. Hated everything about it. Making money takes forever. Crafting items takes tons of materials even for a weak piece of equipment. Menus inside menus. There's like 3 type of map and only one you can use to set your probes. Terrible battle system where your only way of healing is the backward soul voice system. Eventually the game forces you to walk great distance in the bloated world to reach the next story event. Balance is awful like a MMO enemies like 3 levels above you will crush you. Leveling takes forever, AI is stupid and will aggro level 80 enemies while you are level 20 all the time. This is on top of the ugly characters models and awful music. Truly awful.
I don't care whether you hate the 'sentiment ' or not, I'm not telling you not to play Metroid but your reasons for naming Metroid are a poor fit for OP's question. Metroid is a game explicitly about exploration. As in, exploration is what you do. If you hate not being hand held, you are gonna hate Metroid, no shit. It does not mean it's wasting anyones time, it's doing what it's set to do, and with a laser sharp focus at that.
How about this: 'Guys I know what game has Zero respect for my time: NBA 2k16. Imagine, the whole game is about playing basketball and I hate basketball! For me playing virtual basketball is hours thrown in the garbage..' etc etc.
cpp_is_king
Member
I'm still confused. Playstation button, close app. Done. When you come back you're right where you left off
Otherspacing
Member
I don't get using only a game's length as a valid complaint, if you are not enjoying it, why are you still playing it? It seems to me most people try to play more than they can bite.
Yeah, Persona Q is basically a game that you have to cheese it with Mamudoon to get through.
Yeah, Persona Q is basically a game that you have to cheese it with Mamudoon to get through.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I disagree, naturally. I have my own reasons why I think the Metroid games fulfill my own requirements to answer the question, and if we disagree that's fine. My problem with Metroid is not about the exploration, it's about getting lost, which I've previously explained. As someone who has very limited free time and even less time for games, I find being lost to be disrespectful to my own limited game playing time.
To elaborate on a previous example, I mentioned Etrian Odyssey. I think anyone who has played an EO game would happily describe it as an exploration heavy game, and I adore it for it. The difference is EO is built heavily around micro level goals in plotting the courses of the dungeons and every play session contributes to a larger macro goal of making progress. You can play EO for any amount of time, and you would still make progress. The game respects your time because no matter how much time you put into it, you get a fun gameplay experience out of it. I do not feel that that is the same for Metroid for me. If you disagree, that is fine. People are disagreeing over the Souls games here, and nobody's opinion on the matter is invalid because everyone has a different barometer of what constitutes disrespecting time.
And also I disagree on your example, if you think NBA 2k16 is a waste of time for those reasons, those are not invalid reasons to answer the OP's question. They are your subjective reasons and those are valid, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks of them.
RayearthRob
Member
What?? Ahahha
Aztechnology
Member
World of Warcraft with its insane grind and time gate that's frankly unnecessary.
COD zombies strikes me as the worst offender. Why there isn't a save an continue from wave later feature is just stupid.
COD zombies strikes me as the worst offender. Why there isn't a save an continue from wave later feature is just stupid.
Human Trashcan
Banned
ITT a lot of people think "doesn't hold you by the hand" is the same thing as "doesn't respect your time", which is basically the opposite of the truth. If your answer to this is "Souls games" I can't really take you seriously. There is almost zero filler or padding in Souls games, every little bit matters for one reason or another. If it isn't for you, or you can't fit it into your life, that's fine, but don't come with that weak bullshit that it doesn't respect your time for that reason.
MMOs and F2P games are the real answer. They just want to keep you playing as long as possible, however they can, while providing very few meaningful mechanics.
MMOs and F2P games are the real answer. They just want to keep you playing as long as possible, however they can, while providing very few meaningful mechanics.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
Yep basically.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Exploration in a game like Metroid is fun because you aren't guaranteed to succeed. When you find the correct way forward or an item or whatever, it's rewarding because you had to try to do it. If you were guaranteed to find rewards without any effort then you wouldn't actually be exploring. It's like how platforming isn't actually engaging if you can't fall, or how combat isn't engaging if the enemies you're fighting can't defeat you.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Hyrule warriors. Love the idea of adventure mode but man the grind is too much.
Im in the minority here but the loot boxes of Overwatch always felt like a big middle finger for a $60 game. I have heard the last update added something to help you get boxes faster but the grind for a box that can have dupes and is the real only reward system in the game just felt gross to me.
Im in the minority here but the loot boxes of Overwatch always felt like a big middle finger for a $60 game. I have heard the last update added something to help you get boxes faster but the grind for a box that can have dupes and is the real only reward system in the game just felt gross to me.
BossDarkseid
Member
I think options are valid, nowadays at least. Your avi makes me think of Xenogears...which I've never got THAT far in or beaten because while I enjoy it the speed of dialogue is pretty slow, and a couple of other small issues that bug me and just marr the experience a tad. If it was made nowadays I'd hope there would be dialogue speed etc. I know its old but as a comparison.
For Dark Souls I don't think there'd be any harm in FromSoft having a pause that actually pauses during Offline mode, even if it was literally a fade in screen saying "PAUSED" and that was it. Online, you know what you're getting/risking but options are always good and only serve to open the game up to more people.
RayearthRob
Member
Chrono Trigger DS, that fucking post game content...
Moon_frogger
Member
to me that's a slippery slope. the 'options' argument doesn't really apply to dark souls. It's the lack of easy accessibility that made the series a breakaway hit to begin with. by that logic it should also have an 'easy' mode, an in game hint system, a minimap, etc. where does the line get drawn? the series is enormously popular now, I really don't think they need to cater to an overly demanding subset of gamers.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I almost forgot about the affinity missions. It's such a shame because they are supposedly some of the best content in the game, yet they are locked behind an insane amount of grinding. And 3/4 of your party is mandatory for every story mission, so you are in for a lot of generic open-world questing if you want to see those missions.
It's amazing how a potentially great game can be ruined by some inexplicably stupid decisions like this.
BossDarkseid
Member
Yeah, i get that. It's tricky but I think a pause mode would be ok, but hints and minimap etc would...kinda ruin the experience and go against the whole way it is designed. After DLC2 I don't even think FromSoft will make another Souls game (in this setting of medieval european fantasy stuff) for a long time so their design ethos for what comes next might change a bit.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
Destiny is a pretty big offender when it comes to disrespecting a player's time.
I still can't believe they (Bungie) got away with the shit they pulled in Year 1. Having to upgrade exotics all over again, in essence punishing the most hardcore players who had already upgraded many if not all of the exotics available at the time.
Asking players to grind for weeks in order to reach a certain light level and then asking them to grind again because the only way you could get materials to upgrade certain gear would be through the raid.
I still can't believe they (Bungie) got away with the shit they pulled in Year 1. Having to upgrade exotics all over again, in essence punishing the most hardcore players who had already upgraded many if not all of the exotics available at the time.
Asking players to grind for weeks in order to reach a certain light level and then asking them to grind again because the only way you could get materials to upgrade certain gear would be through the raid.
-Mutsukki-
Member
This is it, this is modern gaming. The consumer base is now full of entitled people that can't deal with not having a game tailored exactly for them. It's also why creativity is dying on a lot of mainstream games.
The Lone Courier
Member
Battlefield
Souls games
NBA 2K
Souls games
NBA 2K
Thank you! I love the Souls series, but can not stand the no pause and the defense force that emerges around it like it some hallmark of design to not respect players with a simple feature.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I've always found it weird to expect a game to respect your time.
Gears Horde mode. Almost all MOBAs.
Love them but an hour plus investment for a single match is a lot to ask for.
Mobile games and most modern games are made with this in mind.
Love them but an hour plus investment for a single match is a lot to ask for.
Mobile games and most modern games are made with this in mind.
rootbeerafloat
Member
Any game where I have to repeat ten minutes of easy stuff to get to a really difficult part that requires multiple attempts. Also, any game that places a checkpoint immediately before a long cutscene or a lot of talking.
To be fair, I ignored all the monster classes, the monster meadows, the casino, recruiting townspeople for the island, any post-game stuff and anything involving streetpass/spotpass dungeons, and it still took me 70 hours.
All of that stuff is optional, but it's still a very long game even if you stick to the beaten track. The battle system is so comparatively simple that there's really no need for the class system to only arrive 20 hours in.
That said, I loved it, all the little scenarios were great and what was typically DQ excellent is the variety- for a game that relies on town/dungeon/boss there's a lot of surprises along the way.
+1
All the defenders say its a deliberate design feature and necessary to the game's appeal.
Whether that is true or not is irrelevant to the question of it not respecting the player's time, which it doesn't. Save and Exit? Everytime I want to pause offline? Yeah, that's kinda proving the point. I have to exit the game anytime I want to pause it for an interruption of some time, is really a great example of not respecting the player's time.
thesonovabeach
Member
The Witcher 3.
"-hi, do you know anything about my daughter ?
- yeah, find my wife and i'll tell you.
-hi, do you know anything about this dude's wife ?
- yeah, help me find my goat and I'll tell you
- hi, this goat belongs to dude n02, can I take it ?
- yeah but only if you go to the other side of the map and beat this guy at a card game."
"-hi, do you know anything about my daughter ?
- yeah, find my wife and i'll tell you.
-hi, do you know anything about this dude's wife ?
- yeah, help me find my goat and I'll tell you
- hi, this goat belongs to dude n02, can I take it ?
- yeah but only if you go to the other side of the map and beat this guy at a card game."
My personal picks for timewasting are games that don't let you pause and cut scenes you can't skip/pause/replay from a menu, particularly before a boss fight. Also cut scenes running over a few minutes long. Self-indulgent stuff from directors that would rather be making films. Build the storytelling into the gameplay rather than have anything cool happen while my controller is on the coffee table and I'm sticking the kettle on. FFXIII was really bad for this. Corridor, corridor, corridor. Exciting escape scene in a vehicle! Oh, it's a cut scene. Heaven forbid it could have been the player doing something interesting for a change of pace in the gameplay.
Also, anything that demands endless busywork or compulsory repetition of something that offers zero challenge. I don't mind sidequests as I can skip them, but stuff like collecting the tadtones in Zelda SS or reinforcement waves in whack-a-mole cover shooters annoy me. If the first ten guys didn't stop me, an extra three chaps with basic weapons that jump off the arena wall as soon as the first wave are dead is just padding. The devs know it and I know it.
Also, anything that demands endless busywork or compulsory repetition of something that offers zero challenge. I don't mind sidequests as I can skip them, but stuff like collecting the tadtones in Zelda SS or reinforcement waves in whack-a-mole cover shooters annoy me. If the first ten guys didn't stop me, an extra three chaps with basic weapons that jump off the arena wall as soon as the first wave are dead is just padding. The devs know it and I know it.