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[captive]

Please, people have a hard time figuring area units, don't throw in speed now ! :lol

..thats not hard just distance over time

 

[Y2Kev]

Personally, I think trying to determine the exact position of these dragons in a world where Planck's constant is HUGE is much more exciting.

They could be tunneling all over the place.

Quantum Lair total. The dragon is both alive and dead.

 

[Madman]

Why does the scale of the level matter that much? If anything, it's misrepresented, since the scale of the game is based more on the dragon, and not on the human.

It is human sized scale. Go to page 7, watch the developer walkthrough.

 

[Raist]

Definitely not old. There are three parts coming, so keep your eyes peeled. A bunch of other stuff on the way as well. Suffice to say, you'll get your fill of Lair this weekend.

 

[Steroyd]

Why does the scale of the level matter that much? If anything, it's misrepresented, since the scale of the game is based more on the dragon, and not on the human. Plus the fact you're flying around at fairly high speed. Not to say the levels aren't big (they are), or that there is no focus on smaller stuff, with the massive amounts of troops and whatnot, but it makes comparisons with other games somewhat irrelevant.

How does mass and volume misrepresent the scale of things infact how could a dev measure something like area from the Dragon's perspective. :lol

The levels look to have a lot of shit going on fighting in the sky, troops on the ground, and those big mother****ing scaly things seems way more than what goes on in GTA:SA or from my limited view of the game Oblivion.

 

[Core407]

So when the hell are we going to get a demo of this?

 

[Raist]

So when the hell are we going to get a demo of this?

I think they said around release date :/

 

[Core407]

I think they said around release date :/

"Not only will you be able to buy the game in July, but Factor 5 also confirmed that there will be a downloadable PlayStation Network demo at some point. It's unclear as to whether the demo will hit before the final release or after, but it isn't supposed to be too far off either way."

Better be before it comes out.

 

[Chupakun]

I find it quite impressive.

With regards to gameplay however, given the context... theres little one can do when flying a dragon. I think they've implemented quite a bit and it's definitely a step up from Drakengard (which was surprisingly, ridiculously fun in a guilty pleasure sort of way).

I don't know which console I'll be owning at the at end of this year, if any, but if it's a PS3, I'm certain that I'll gravitate towards this title.

Like someone mentioned, I too agree that the rate at which the dragon breathes the fireballs is a little too high. So far this game has done quite a bit in immersing the player in the world, but little flaws like that seem much more glaring in that case. I hope they do change that aspect.

 

[mckmas8808]

Part 3 where thou art you?

 

[Fafalada]

if this thread goes cubic, then i think at least 3 posters will have a melt down.

"But what is really gonna bake your noodles is when you realize that Dragons fly up and down for tens of kilometers as well - 32x32*xxx km3 = omfg Lair is cubic."

 

[Kittonwy]

Satterfield why have you forsaken me?!!!

 

[InterMoniker]

Are we still going to get a third dev video from gametrailers.com?

If they have a third video what are they waiting for?

Are they spacing them out to get more hits on there site? Milkin it?

 

[Bad_Boy]

it will go up monday probably.

 

[sun-drop]

havent watched the walk through yet , just going on the crappy ign vids i've seen so far ..but one of the worst visual problems i have with lair are the fire effects ..manly how mechainical it looks ...plusing out like lazer fire ..these are ment to be living creatures right?


do they say how it works? is it just basicly a fire button?



i'd love to seem them make it fully analoge, with a big range, so you could tap for fast small fireballs ...and increasing larger and slower fire the longer you hold the button.

that would at least mix up visualy the stream of flame going to the target. not sure how that would impact game play though.


would look a shit load better tho...

 

[Core407]

havent watched the walk through yet , just going on the crappy ign vids i've seen so far ..but one of the worst visual problems i have with lair are the fire effects ..manly how mechainical it looks ...plusing out like lazer fire ..these are ment to be living creatures right?


do they say how it works? is it just basicly a fire button?



i'd love to seem them make it fully analoge, with a big range, so you could tap for fast small fireballs ...and increasing larger and slower fire the longer you hold the button.

that would at least mix up visualy the stream of flame going to the target. not sure how that would impact game play though.


would look a shit load better tho...

I really hate the fire in the game. It just looks 2d and flat.

 

[MassiveAttack]

havent watched the walk through yet , just going on the crappy ign vids i've seen so far ..but one of the worst visual problems i have with lair are the fire effects ..manly how mechainical it looks ...plusing out like lazer fire ..these are ment to be living creatures right?


do they say how it works? is it just basicly a fire button?



i'd love to seem them make it fully analoge, with a big range, so you could tap for fast small fireballs ...and increasing larger and slower fire the longer you hold the button.

that would at least mix up visualy the stream of flame going to the target. not sure how that would impact game play though.


would look a shit load better tho...

I guess you missed the part about the game being at alpha. Still a couple of months to go before final submission.

 

[kaching]

it will go up monday probably.

It's not going up on the weekend definitely.

 

[sun-drop]

yeh could be place holder flame for sure. hope so, cause right now it's spoling an otherwise great looking next gen title.

big ups for being built soley around the sixaxis too btw.

 

[Norml]

i'd love to seem them make it fully analoge, with a big range, so you could tap for fast small fireballs ...and increasing larger and slower fire the longer you hold the button.
...

That is a good idea.

 

[bridegur]

Wow, I watched the developer walkthrough, and other than the flames, the game looks incredible. I hope it's more fun than their previous games.

 

[satterfield]

Satterfield why have you forsaken me?!!!

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

 

[linsivvi]

They claim they are streaming textures off the BluRay...but why not the Hard Drive?

Is it because the 20Gb models are slower than the 60Gb? Either way, you'd think it would be faster than off the BluRay drive...

I think it has a lot more to do with hard drive space rather than the drive speed.

If it's 4Gb per level, they can't possibly store the whole game in the drive. If they only store one level at a time, they'd have to disrupt the game play by making the players wait for the installation before each level.

Some games fill up the hard drive cache as you play the game, but with the cache being temporary, it might not be worth the effort?

As long as the BR caching is done right, ie, walking outdoors in Oblivion, it shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: All the guys who are struggling at basic maths. Time for some brain age sessions. :lol

 

[DCharlie]

"But what is really gonna bake your noodles is when you realize that Dragons fly up and down for tens of kilometers as well - 32x32*xxx km3 = omfg Lair is cubic."

... so how many km is that?

 

[mr_nothin]

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

Hmmm how many exactly?
Also, do you know if the 'gameplay videos' and the 'walkthrough videos' are from the same build or is the dev interview one from a newer build? There seems to be a pretty big difference in quality.

Also, will the other videos (not the dev walkthrough one) be from the same 'build' as the walkthrough video or are they more of the same of what we've already seen?

 

[nelsonroyale]

... so how many km is that?

15 parsecs quadrupled outside the space time continuum

 

[Raist]

i'd love to seem them make it fully analoge, with a big range, so you could tap for fast small fireballs ...and increasing larger and slower fire the longer you hold the button.
.

I think it already works like that. Dunno if it has been mentionned, but if you pay attention to some scenes in the trailer, you can see little quick fireballs, and bigger ones. I guess you have to "charge" to get bigger ones.

As for how they breathe fire, well yeah, lil round fireballs seems weird. Usually in movies, you see dragon breathe fire just like a flamethrower. But I think it's not that weird after all. Dragons are often presented as magical creatures, able to speak many languages and cast spells that would make an archimage cry. They're just fantasy creatures, so I'd say you can't really tell if it's looking real or not.

I'm much more shocked when I see F16's firing one billion rockets in some games :lol

 

[Son of Godzilla]

As for how they breathe fire, well yeah, lil round fireballs seems weird. Usually in movies, you see dragon breathe fire just like a flamethrower. But I think it's not that weird after all. Dragons are often presented as magical creatures, able to speak many languages and cast spells that would make an archimage cry. They're just fantasy creatures, so I'd say you can't really tell if it's looking real or not.

Just remember, P90 fire bounces off it's skin.

 

[FightyF]

I think it has a lot more to do with hard drive space rather than the drive speed.

If it's 4Gb per level, they can't possibly store the whole game in the drive. If they only store one level at a time, they'd have to disrupt the game play by making the players wait for the installation before each level.

Some games fill up the hard drive cache as you play the game, but with the cache being temporary, it might not be worth the effort?

As long as the BR caching is done right, ie, walking outdoors in Oblivion, it shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: All the guys who are struggling at basic maths. Time for some brain age sessions. :lol

That's a good point. But I don't think it would get that big...due to the amount of RAM available. But I don't know much about texture streaming I've never dealt with it before...it's just elementary speculation on my part.

 

[antiloop]

That's a good point. But I don't think it would get that big...due to the amount of RAM available. But I don't know much about texture streaming I've never dealt with it before...it's just elementary speculation on my part.

Even 256 MB of memory should be enough for texture streaming. A standard harddrive can't transfer close to 256 MB of data per second. Much less Blu-ray. Even with compression it should be good enough.

I have no practical experience with it though so just guessing.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

OH SHI- O_O

 

[SolidSnakex]

Since people are discussing the tech parts of Lair, here's some of what Julian mentioned in an issue of EGM

For Lair, the cell is used to govern A.I. and generate all the polygonal models in the game, from soldiers to creatures to terrain. "Our worlds are 32 kilometers square," says Eggebrecht. "By contrast, the Rogue Leader levels were 16 killometers and every 16 meters, we had some detail in the world. Here, we have detail every two meters. It's a big "wow" in terms of how much detail we can provide. It's also a lot more work for us.

He points to Lair's ultra-hi resolution textures, which stream off the game's 25 gigabytes Blu-ray disc to paint increadibly detailed landscapes, fortresses, soldiers, and creatures. Add in its animations and other data, and just one level alone fills more than four gigabytes of the disc space.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Since people are discussing the tech parts of Lair, here's some of what Julian mentioned in an issue of EGM

just for reference 32 km square is 32 X 32 while 32 square kilometres is like 5.something x 5.something

peace

 

[gofreak]

That's a good point. But I don't think it would get that big...due to the amount of RAM available.

Even 256 MB of memory should be enough for texture streaming. A standard harddrive can't transfer close to 256 MB of data per second. Much less Blu-ray. Even with compression it should be good enough.

I've no practical experience either, but a look at how much data passed through PS2 memory in the space of a level, the ratio of that to RAM size, might indicate the type of ratio that would be possible in this new generation too. I don't know any numbers here at all, but if for example a PS2 game streamed in and out a couple of hundred MBs of data in the space of a level, one might think streaming a few GBs through 512MB of data wouldn't be implausible - or at least, that RAM size would not be the limiting factor toward that goal. There are other issues to consider though (like disc transfer speed..though that would be mitigated if using the HDD I guess).

 

[Steroyd]

just for reference 32 km square is 32 X 32 while 32 square kilometres is like 5.something x 5.something

peace

Oh no you di'nt.

 

[Mau ®]

It's level-based, but they're 32x32 kilometer levels, so somewhere in between.

WOW. Isnt Oblivion like 16x16km or something? Or was that Morrowind???

Either way I guess now I understand why they said ech level was 4GB. So Blu-Ray is useful after all?

 

[kaching]

I think it already works like that. Dunno if it has been mentionned, but if you pay attention to some scenes in the trailer, you can see little quick fireballs, and bigger ones. I guess you have to "charge" to get bigger ones.

Yeah, Eggebrecht mentioned that. The dragon also has two forms of breath - the projectile fireballs that can be charged and the more typical firebreath that they use in close combat (on ground or while grappling with other dragon).

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Satterfield GAF loves you.

 

[kaching]

So many HD files...

Just how many HD files though? If you could lay them out side by side, would they fill an area 32x32 kilometers or would they fill an area that's 32 square kilometers?

 

[MassiveAttack]

Just how many HD files though? If you could lay them out side by side, would they fill an area 32x32 kilometers or would they fill an area that's 32 square kilometers?

:lol

Well played, kaching.

 

[InterMoniker]

I've no practical experience either, but a look at how much data passed through PS2 memory in the space of a level, the ratio of that to RAM size, might indicate the type of ratio that would be possible in this new generation too. I don't know any numbers here at all, but if for example a PS2 game streamed in and out a couple of hundred MBs of data in the space of a level, one might think streaming a few GBs through 512MB of data wouldn't be implausible - or at least, that RAM size would not be the limiting factor toward that goal. There are other issues to consider though (like disc transfer speed..though that would be mitigated if using the HDD I guess).

Thats a really good point, San Andreas was like 7gb+ and it streamed through PS2's limited memory. I really don't see why people complain about ram so much 512mb is a huge jump over PS2's 4mb + 32 mb. It looks like ram is a non issue looking at LAIR.

This is some interesting tech jargon

There is a 48-Gigabyte memory access bandwidth achieved via the integration of the pixel logic and the video memory on a single high performance chip.The quality of the resulting screen image is comparable to high quality pre-rendered 3D graphics. (that is once the game developers have learned how to use it properly) There has also been a misunderstanding about the VideoRAM on the PS2. The VRAM is included in the 32MB of main RAM on the CPU (the developer chooses how much of it he wants to dedicate to VRAM). Everyone thought the 4MB of memory on the GS was the VRAM while that is just a buffer in which all the rendering is done so no external bandwidth is needed (only for texture streaming). Another rumour that's been spread by several gaming sites is that the XBox is capable of texture compression and full scene anti-aliasing while the PS2 isn't. This is simply not true. The PS2 can compress/decompress textures and do full scene anti-aliasing without causing as much slow-down as on the XBox. And although the XBox GPU can do alot of effects that are not 'built-in' in the PS2 GS, the PS2 can do all these effects and more in software mode (but atleast at the same quality) through the Emotion Engine. let's take a look at how the PS2 accesses the RAM: -32MB Direct RDRAM 2 channels at 800MHz implemented on the CPU itself. This means that the PS2's powerful Emotion Engine can manipulate the data stored in the RAM atleast twice as fast as the XBox can access its memory. This is very important cause all data is stored there (even the graphics because the VRAM is included in those 32MB of RAM).

Just how many HD files though? If you could lay them out side by side, would they fill an area 32x32 kilometers or would they fill an area that's 32 square kilometers?

"GAF's biggest wanker"

:lol :lol

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

Cool

 

[Thunderbear]

Yes, there will be much more on the game going up tomorrow. Sorry but we didn't manage to get everything compressed for weekend publish. So many HD files...

Keep checking Gametrailers.com, I hope those updates are coming soon! Can't wait.

 

[InterMoniker]

Keep checking Gametrailers.com, I hope those updates are coming soon! Can't wait.

You tricked me. I got all excited................. Then read your post

 

[KTallguy]

They're up!!

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Part 3 is up http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2657

 

[Thunderbear]

PART 3 IS UP!!

 

[rc213]

Part 3 just went live!

 

[Ploid 3.0]

lol all 3 of us posted at the same time, seems we were camping hah. At least I beat Thunderbear.

 

[bud]

looks ****ing amazing, especially the scale. but in part 3 the fire looks really out of place, even more so than in the first two parts :/

 

[Y2Kev]

Fix the fire. Seriously.

Other than that, OOOOMG.