If she indeed get banned for that, then everything is PC, right?
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Gary Oldman: "its not like Im a fascist or a racist"
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If she indeed get banned for that, then everything is PC, right?
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Live and let live. Beung pissed off does no good to oneself.
I want good movies starring Mel.
I want good movies starring Mel.
hendersonhank
Member
If the "argument" that had been made was "he didn't do anything bad because we all do it", you have a point.
Since the argument was "it's hypocritical to blast Mel for this stuff while doing it themselves, or while lauding others who have done much worse", then you don't have a point, since that is exactly what hypocrisy means.
I think this whole thread also points to what Gary was saying about his dislike of the PC mindset. People just see red when they hear certain words and as a result, you have 5 pages of people attacking all kinds of off-base strawmen and ignoring the fact that what he described is essentially a picture-perfect definition of hypocrisy.
hendersonhank
Member
And? It's an example of what Oldman is talking about. Mel has been made a "leper" by people -- like the cast of the Hangover -- refusing to work with him. Meanwhile those exact same people might have zero problem with, for example, working with a convicted rapist.
No, but the policeman also didn't arrest Mel for talking about Jews. And Hollywood didn't make him an outcast because he was drunk, or even being abusive to a girlfriend, because people who do those things -- even people who have killed people -- have been forgiven more quickly than Gibson.
I don't know how many ways this can be re-phrased before people stop trying to attack this strawman of "Mel didn't do anything wrong because we all do it".
This is the argument:
These people are hypocrites because they say they have pushed Mel out because of the awful things he has said, while these same people have no hesitation associating with and working with and celebrating others who have actually DONE much worse things.
Are....are they allowed to ban Devo?
Also, lol at her comment. Hope it's not too long of a ban.
In other news, Gary Oldman is super sorry y'all.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gary-oldman-apologizes-defending-mel-714817
Also, lol at her comment. Hope it's not too long of a ban.
In other news, Gary Oldman is super sorry y'all.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gary-oldman-apologizes-defending-mel-714817
captainnapalm
Member
You see this mindset surface with political correctness in a lot of different ways. In fact, that's kind of its function. It really comes out of a certain "liberal" political mindset that excuses/ignores/approves of all kinds of terrible shit going on in politics, or the world, but somehow feigns concern at this really superficial surface level. It's like trying to paper over society's cracks so on one will question you about the really terrible stuff going on underneath. It allows liberals to appear liberal, when they are anything but.
And of course the media buys into it 100% because it's a really easy way to preserve a fucked up status quo while pretending to care. It also sells bigtime, because what's better than hanging a public figure out to dry.
In my opinion, if you're a minority, or a special interest group, or whatever, and think PCness is out there to help you and help the world, I think you're mistaken. It's not going to change a thing, in fact it's probably counter productive, because it leads to a pushback from people who see the faux-righteous indignation and selective moral outrage for what it is.
And of course, Oldman has to apologise now or he might never work in this town again. And the cycle continues.
I am so disappointed in Gary Oldman...Mel Gibson's outbursts came as confirmation of years of rumors of him being a raging asshole, racist and anti-semite, culminating in lots of people being unhappy with his portrayal of some Jewish characters in Passion of the Christ. Trying to blame his current unpopularity the world being too politically correct is just ignorance.
Gary's apology sounds astoundingly insincere.
Gary's apology sounds astoundingly insincere.
Uggg.
"Political Correctness" does not exist.
Stop pretending that being aghast at saying the word nigger is some liberal agenda.
Until you start using the words "negro" and "colored" you are being as "PC" as anyone else in the world. You just don't understand how language works, and how words become antiquated.
Would you hire a rabid anti-Semite and racist like Mel Gibson? Would you defend him in the press?
A black man, a lesbian and a Jewish man did.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Right. But my issue there is that these are generally applied at the broad level. You attack people for attacking strawmen, but is not Oldman doing the same thing. Yes, I'm sure you can find specific individuals who look down on Gibson who have committed far worse acts, or people who think Gibson is a monster but respect the hell out of Polanski. But this primarily works as an attack against individuals. It falls apart completely when applied to a monolithic "angry mob."
captainnapalm
Member
I wouldn't hire Gibson because he's a raging alcoholic who also seems to be mentally ill. His outburst at police while getting arrested was just a result of that. I would suggest he gets help first.
It's interesting though that two of his staunchest supporters were a black woman and a lesbian - Whoopi Goldberg and Jodie Foster. I think Foster seems to think Gibson is a good man who is clearly sick and needs friendship and compassion - not judgment from atop a high horse. Whether she's right or wrong, who knows, but she actually knows the man, while neither of us do.
Anyway, I am not arguing that people should be able to say words like nigger. But we don't need political correctness to tell us that. I'm really more looking at the big picture and what underpins politically correct thought in general from a socio-political perspective.
Political correctness takes many forms. I remember a few years back, comics made the decision that characters would not be allowed to smoke anymore, though it was still ok to, for example, glorify a character like the Punisher who murders people for a living. Smoking - bad, Murder - ok. That's the kind of warped logic political correctness can breed.
Your point?
It sounds very insincere to me. Not to mention is quite mocking in a sense with the way he writes "chosen people". It's like he's trying to prove his belief that jews are so powerful and run Hollywood he had to retract and be so conciliatory. Plus, notice he never even once apologized for saying everyone throws the N-word or the cop etc.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I really feel like "political correctness" is really misunderstood. It's largely just the notion that words and actions have consequences and as such, you should care about how people react to what you do/say. If one wants to say/do whatever they want, so long as it's not illegal, they are free to do so. And since it's a free country, people are free to react to what you do/say however they want.
The irony.
Red Liquorice
Member
Goodness me, the "first to hear God's voice" part, can only be read as an over the top plea not to be locked out from future work but also sounds so obsequious that it could also be read as sarcastic.
Not sure what's political about smoking, but I find it hard to believe you actually think Punisher comics push the point of view that murder is "ok".
Either way, smoking is responsible for 35x more deaths per year than murder in the US. 1300 people a day.
No Mel Gibson is a racist and an anti-semite and it is annoying when people excuse it by saying he is a drunk or mentally ill. I don't know about you, but I don't suddenly become a racist when I'm drunk.
Whoopi Goldberg defending Mel Gibson means nothing especially when you consider that she also defended Roman Polanski and said what he did wasn't "rape rape". I don't think she is the best judge of character.
Halcyon
Member
I understood what her point was. It's not the posters that banned her. It's also not a democracy here. You want people attacking the Mods to free Devo? I'm sure that will go over well.
He's a really good actor.
captainnapalm
Member
It's not saying murder is ok, it's saying representing murder is ok. Whereas representing smoking is not. I think Hollywood does this as well for the most part.
People are just trying to clear things up. It's up to the mods whether she should be banned or not. No one is going for their pitchforks just yet.
Yup. They're very quiet.
All PC really means is showing respect for other peoples feelings and considering what you do or say because there will be consequences. If you wouldn't swear in front of upper management or act a specific way in certain situations then you're being "PC".
The term is being thrown around as a dismissive term against people and it's getting to a point where even just calling our poor comments gets you labelled as the PC police.
Also on the ban, if posted with the intention of attacking the poster only, she and anyone would agree the ban was deserved. The reason I quoted her post is because it got taken literally by the mods rather than seeing there was a point to her writing that.
Yes, it is ironic how suddenly the PC police go quiet at Devo's banning.
I'm not sure why you would take my post that way.
I had two intentions with her post. One, that the moderators could see it wasn't a literal post and then go from there if they want to reconsider the ban on her and two, that the PC police posters went quiet the moment she was banned.
Shouldn't these same posters be outraged she was banned by the so called "PC" police?
Another funny thing is everyone agreeing to post on this forum means agreeing to respect and follow the sites rules because it is moderated and yet....
hendersonhank
Member
No, but then, I also wouldn't jump at the chance to hire a convicted rapist, or a pedophile, or someone who killed someone while drunk driving. So, yet again, when it's people who WOULD do the latter that we're talking about, it is perfectly okay and accurate to talk about their hypocrisy in being irrevocably repelled by the words of a drunk.
hendersonhank
Member
Well, he's mostly talking about the entertainment industry that has made him a pariah, and I think it's a fair -- and, yes, accurate -- point, and not a strawman at all. The group that blackballed Gibson while working with, financing, applauding others who've done far, FAR worse includes major movie studios, producers, major actors, the entertainment press, you name it. Sure there may be some individuals in that industry who don't fit the description, but I don't think people are required to name and number every single person they're talking about in something like this....especially when Gary himself would like to keep working.
It's one of those "I am sorry(not really) you are offended" joints.
that is what is really grinding my tears. If you don't want to be called out don't do asshole stuff. How hard is it to understand?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
You're talking about the industry as if it's a person when in reality it's not. Zach got Mel removed from his film, while working with Tyson. A man who to this day denies the charges against him, he wouldn't even plead guilty to reduce his sentence because he said he'd never admit to doing what the woman claimed he did. He has spoken pretty openly about that period in his life and has apologized to the ones he hurt.
If you wanna say Zack is a hypocrite, sure. But even in that instance it's not cut and dry. But you're gonna have to pull some receipts to back up what you're asserting.
Taking someone to task for racist rants is 'feigned concern at a superficial level'....alrght breh.
His movies still make money, so it is OK for Hollywood.
Her close friend Mel Gibson who might be the father of her sons and who she has known for 20 years? The man she knows as loving and sensitive? He has been a fantastic friend for her, so that is why she defends him. There are a lot of people with bad sides that also have good sides.
Holy fuck.
Darkangel
Member
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jun/25/gary-oldman-apologises-in-antisemitism-row-mel-gibson
Haha oh man he is done.
Gary Oldman said:
Haha oh man he is done.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
He really needed someone to proof read his apology if he indeed didn't mean to come off snarky or sarcastic.
Stolen from the comments section:
It sounds like someone's holding a gun to his head in that last bit.
John Kowalski
Banned
haha, holy shit
that's some salt pouring alright
that's some salt pouring alright
DoktorEvil
Banned
Gary stop backtracking and don't apologize.
Yeah this really smacks of bitter satire.
Particularly the already called out " The Jewish people, persecuted thorough the ages, are the first to hear God's voice, and surely are the chosen people."
Now he's spouting what is essentially theological racism.. often quoted as an excuse for people's antisemitism.
Particularly the already called out " The Jewish people, persecuted thorough the ages, are the first to hear God's voice, and surely are the chosen people."
Now he's spouting what is essentially theological racism.. often quoted as an excuse for people's antisemitism.
Darkangel
Member
I love the irony of getting "blacklisted" by Hollywood Jews for saying that Jews run Hollywood. I don't get why it's considered offensive when it's pretty much a fact that a lot of producers happen to be Jewish.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Here's his statement:
I can't tell if this is thinly veiled snark or heartfelt, but nowhere in his Playboy interview did he become an Anti Semite.
MHWilliams
Member
Oldman sounds like he has a gun to his head.
But the "Jews control Hollywood" idea is still rather fucked up. If you don't know why read up on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a hoax that purported to show Jews trying to control the whole world en masse, including the media. So, the mention of the idea does indeed anger some people.
Are there a number of Jewish producers in Hollywood? Yes. Is Hollywood controlled exclusively by Jewish people? No.
But the "Jews control Hollywood" idea is still rather fucked up. If you don't know why read up on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a hoax that purported to show Jews trying to control the whole world en masse, including the media. So, the mention of the idea does indeed anger some people.
Are there a number of Jewish producers in Hollywood? Yes. Is Hollywood controlled exclusively by Jewish people? No.
So Oldman apologized and the ADL has rejected his apology, in part because he cites Gabler's book then goes on to talk about Jews running Hollywood, while missing the actual salient point -- "Jews" don't run Hollywood. People, many of whom happen to be Jewish, work in Hollywood. One way describes the historical reality that Jewish immigrants largely created Hollywood and many of their descendants and others still work and have power there.
The other is a conspiracy theory suggesting the Jews run Hollywood as some sort of secret cabal. It's part of a long, sordid history that blames the entire race/ethnicity of Jews for some Jewish people being successful. It's the same logic used to persecute Jewish people in Germany before the war. And, as MHWilliams above me points out, it's right out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion playbook.
The ADL's response covers much of the same ground:
Bolding is mine.
The other is a conspiracy theory suggesting the Jews run Hollywood as some sort of secret cabal. It's part of a long, sordid history that blames the entire race/ethnicity of Jews for some Jewish people being successful. It's the same logic used to persecute Jewish people in Germany before the war. And, as MHWilliams above me points out, it's right out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion playbook.
The ADL's response covers much of the same ground:
Bolding is mine.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'm curious to read the book he mentioned now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Empire_of_Their_Own
But then there's this response by the ADL:
http://variety.com/2014/film/news/g...-remarks-about-jews-and-hollywood-1201246251/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Empire_of_Their_Own
But then there's this response by the ADL:
http://variety.com/2014/film/news/g...-remarks-about-jews-and-hollywood-1201246251/
BaronLundi
Member
I liked you Gary but you're reaching Labeouf levels of stupidity while confirming that you are indeed a insensitive racist prick.
Fuck you.
Sincerely.
Fuck you.
Sincerely.
BobbyRobby
Member
This is a weird battle you're trying to wage. Is it a trap to get more people banned? You're not allowed to argue with moderation about stuff like this.
User Name Here
Member
Oscar worthy performance!
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
But who gets to define "asshole stuff"? What's "asshole stuff" to me could be completely innocuous to you.
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