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Gears of War Judgement |OT| Brothers from the beginning, Bros till the end
- Thread starter Lunchbox
- Start date
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
What an excellently overlooked aspect of multiplayer. I wouldn't doubt if the devs disregarded this.
The little details have a huge impact on the player's experience.
what in the actual fuck is going through the heads at EPIC
25% Rifle increase across all rifles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i4oVQij1z0
Basically, everyone now has a active Lancer/Hammerburst's/Marksa FULL CLIP.
Enough talk about the player base already dwindling and closely on par with GOW3 2 years out, but the current state of the multiplayer has taken some pretty hard hits, the competitive scene atm is just completely up in the air by the imbalances, no mater what settings/mode/map nothing seems to go right, its not a team orientated competitive game. (very few exceptions, EG:Execution:Haven)
GOWJ is purely based on FFA and works best at it, maps are over layered and standard loadouts were balanced for all sorts of usage, but as of right now teamplay and balance has gone out the window with this franchise, i urge people to go 5 marksa/lancer withs stim and they will trump any combination. majority of complaints have mainly been directed at the lack of content, lack of map/modes and map design, Rifle Damage? not even here on GAF was it thoroughly discussed or debated about. with this new update EPIC havent even considered the notion of Team Rifle Fire, not even a quarter of your lancer clip gets you the kill, how does this effect TDM/DOM/EXE?
badly! watch some competitive streams for reference
I find Epics's MP lead designers are purely basing buffs on statistics of weapons not being used as frequently which is a flawed way to go about balance because it doesnt always play out that way (Retro,SOS,Scorcher for happened GOW3) Majority of EPIC's Online players use the Gnasher because thats what they like/grown accustom, why are we still going through major weapon balances when GOW3 was near damn perfect (except Retro)
Idk,
im glad im not invested in GOWJ but clearly the direction for MP is in a odd place, we just want consistency. look through your own history EPIC, you lack direction, even when you happen to stumble out and strike gold, TWICE!
25% Rifle increase across all rifles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i4oVQij1z0
Basically, everyone now has a active Lancer/Hammerburst's/Marksa FULL CLIP.
Enough talk about the player base already dwindling and closely on par with GOW3 2 years out, but the current state of the multiplayer has taken some pretty hard hits, the competitive scene atm is just completely up in the air by the imbalances, no mater what settings/mode/map nothing seems to go right, its not a team orientated competitive game. (very few exceptions, EG:Execution:Haven)
GOWJ is purely based on FFA and works best at it, maps are over layered and standard loadouts were balanced for all sorts of usage, but as of right now teamplay and balance has gone out the window with this franchise, i urge people to go 5 marksa/lancer withs stim and they will trump any combination. majority of complaints have mainly been directed at the lack of content, lack of map/modes and map design, Rifle Damage? not even here on GAF was it thoroughly discussed or debated about. with this new update EPIC havent even considered the notion of Team Rifle Fire, not even a quarter of your lancer clip gets you the kill, how does this effect TDM/DOM/EXE?
badly! watch some competitive streams for reference
I find Epics's MP lead designers are purely basing buffs on statistics of weapons not being used as frequently which is a flawed way to go about balance because it doesnt always play out that way (Retro,SOS,Scorcher for happened GOW3) Majority of EPIC's Online players use the Gnasher because thats what they like/grown accustom, why are we still going through major weapon balances when GOW3 was near damn perfect (except Retro)
Idk,
im glad im not invested in GOWJ but clearly the direction for MP is in a odd place, we just want consistency. look through your own history EPIC, you lack direction, even when you happen to stumble out and strike gold, TWICE!
I watched your video and... holy shit.
I'm still having a fucking blast with the game, but i guess i'll be returning to my old Lancer soon now, LOL.
I did love the Lancer and used that all the time in Gears 3 (along with the sawed off), but i felt it was basically useless in Judgment and rapidly switched to the Gnasher.
This wasnt my video, but the skyzyn is a HUGE supporter of the franchise and has been really trying to get fans to support GOWJ, the message in this video is very clear and on point.
B1gg_Randall
Member
Thanks for the video,man..
Give me the name of the person who's doing the balance changes/designed the MP so that I never buy a game from him ever again. :|
The people at epic seem to think that people use the Gnasher because it's strongest weapon, people use it because it's the most fun weapon. Is that so hard to understand? The lancer was the best all-round weapon in Gears 3, I used it quite a bit when the opponents where good. However most of the gnasher was enough, hence I used it a lot more.
2 piece nerf was really needed though(it was my counter against hipfire strafing lancer users though xD).
The people at epic seem to think that people use the Gnasher because it's strongest weapon, people use it because it's the most fun weapon. Is that so hard to understand? The lancer was the best all-round weapon in Gears 3, I used it quite a bit when the opponents where good. However most of the gnasher was enough, hence I used it a lot more.
2 piece nerf was really needed though(it was my counter against hipfire strafing lancer users though xD).
Skyzyn's bitching, funny enough, goes on more about the rifle update being a stealth one, which I can understand since fair enough they only talked about it on an Epic stream before it went live, but he's a fool for getting mad about them increasing rifle damage.
If the guy has been playing for as long as he says, he would know that Epic has been trying to get the community off of living off a single gun since Gears 2. So since 2008. Their mind state on this isn't new.
They even removed stopping power for those complaining about rifles so now if you're getting rushed with anything in your hands aside from a Gnasher, you're done. More-so with how fast the melee is in this game.
The only thing I'd agree with is that Epic should let everyone know when they make updates, but they seem like the type of devs that rather let people fine things out on their own and never give out raw data just like other devs tend to do. But for the rest that video was four minutes of over-exaggerated bitching.
They did drop the damage on the Lancer yesterday, before his video went live, which was also funny. I did feel the damage increase yesterday when I was getting Lancered from far, and I definitely didn't need anyone to tell me about that in patch notes.
If the guy has been playing for as long as he says, he would know that Epic has been trying to get the community off of living off a single gun since Gears 2. So since 2008. Their mind state on this isn't new.
They even removed stopping power for those complaining about rifles so now if you're getting rushed with anything in your hands aside from a Gnasher, you're done. More-so with how fast the melee is in this game.
The only thing I'd agree with is that Epic should let everyone know when they make updates, but they seem like the type of devs that rather let people fine things out on their own and never give out raw data just like other devs tend to do. But for the rest that video was four minutes of over-exaggerated bitching.
They did drop the damage on the Lancer yesterday, before his video went live, which was also funny. I did feel the damage increase yesterday when I was getting Lancered from far, and I definitely didn't need anyone to tell me about that in patch notes.
Diablohead
Member
Gears 3 lancer was perfectly balanced, I can see that they buffed it a little to make the gameplay faster and because of no actives but 25% seems overkill, especially in that video, that is game breaking power.
magicaltrevor
Banned
Still on the fence on whether to buy this one or not...
I don't think I will enjoy the MP much, as I absolutely adored Gears 1 (and 3 is pretty good, too) MP. This one looks to be very different.
Is Execution any good in this, or does it still feel very different compared to Gears 1?
I don't think I will enjoy the MP much, as I absolutely adored Gears 1 (and 3 is pretty good, too) MP. This one looks to be very different.
Is Execution any good in this, or does it still feel very different compared to Gears 1?
The maps aren't really made with execution in mind. The maps are big. Next to Haven, you will have a vastly inferior experience compared to the older games. You are also locked into a specific role, because of load out changes. It changes the game flow a lot. In Gears 1 it was critical which path you took. Everything feels random in Judgment.
Honestly I'd argue it isn't made for TDM either. The maps work really well for Free for all though(which is the only gametype I seem to be enjoying).
The loadout changes are more than enough by themselves to make any returning MP mode play completely different. Without two viable weapons at the start of a map you really would be locked into a specific role in the MP - I didn't explicitly think of this but 2San has the right idea. It's almost like each member of your 5-man squad should act like a unique class - what, 3 rifleman and 2 gnashers to a team? I haven't played online so I don't know what a good team looks like, but that's what I'd run based on what I have seen. Soften them up with rifles and have gnashers prepared for CQC.
After playing few rounds of execution I can say, that the mode feels very different compared to first Gears and I didn't like it anymore. Mostly, because the maps didn't really work with the mode; they felt too big and open for my taste. But also, because the forced selection between lancer or gnasher felt limiting.
CHROMExSKULL
Banned
The rifle buff is so stupid, they were fine at launch and need to be changed back, especially now since they tweaked the melee, not sure why Epic cant accept that most Gears players love the gnasher, to me it is much more satisfying getting a kill with the gnasher then any rifle. Stim grenades drive me crazy to but for the most part I do like the game, we need more maps though
At least against bots on Normal or Hardcore playing TDM or Execution, I feel the Lancer is my only viable option to start off with. The maps are too big to rush with a Gnasher without rifle support. The Lancer has good (now even better) power and range, and in CQC the chainsaw bayonet gives me a fighting chance. Going at it essentially solo I can't pick another weapon in Judgment without watching my kill streaks suffer.
Goodacre0081
Member
i don't find the loadout system all that limiting due to the fact that I always pick up a secondary weapon. be it the lancer, HB or even the SO. besides my Gnasher kills I have noticed my other numbers for the remaining guns have been steadily climbing, unlike gears3 where I would never use them in my loadout.
ThePointyEnd
Banned
Ever read the books? Traviss did an incredible job adding substance.
As for GOWJ.
In less than a week I was back in Gears3 MP and it so much more subtle and nuanced- all weapons are useful. GOWJ is just a plain up and down mess.
GOWJ is forcing a square peg in a round hole with a blasting cap.
I haven't read a book based on a video game since the Doom novels back in the 1990's, lol.
But I've considered reading the Gears books. For me to even consider reading a work of fiction is a gargantuan accomplishment these days, so that still counts for something. Nonetheless, the Gears universe is in steeped in interesting lore, and the idea of a Gears book is a whole lot more palatable than the Gears board game I saw at PAX a few years back.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Oh God, those books and their incorporation of the Mormon religion into the plot were the worst.
Is there any wonder as to why I gave up on video game novels?
yankeehater
Member
I love the Gears books. They do a really good job of filling in a lot of background stuff.
ThePointyEnd
Banned
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I liked the Gears books too. Was super bummed when they ruined Bernie in Gears 3 compared to how she was in the books - completely different. That being said, Bernie was still super awesome and my go-to character in 3 until the almighty Barrick emerged.
ThePointyEnd
Banned
Yeah she was barely in Gears 3 at all. I was disappointed by that too.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah man, really a bummer. I want the original vision for Boomer Lady goddammit!
XT Vengeance
Member
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
We should be thankful though, Bernie was very strong and cool even if she looked like a waif in Gears 3:
Just glad they didn't go THIS route:
Just glad they didn't go THIS route:
XT Vengeance
Member
Well to be fair, she IS older than Hoffman. I'd be concerned if she looked like Alex Brand.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I expected more meat on her bones, more muscle - instead she looked like a witch! A witch! God I love her horrible voice when I would play horde. "Taaaaarget my maaaaark"
yankeehater
Member
Yeah I love to rush the digger. I got a triple kill with it on execution the other day. So good.
XT Vengeance
Member
My friends and I yell that all the time, lol
Personally, I usually play as one of the Carmine brothers. It makes my a little sad that I can't do that in Judgement.
PeteNub tweeted this link to show everything they've changed so far, and it looks like it'll be where every change will be posted at alongside his tweets: http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/952066-What-are-we-doing-
In that log, it also shows that:
In that log, it also shows that:
- Shortened the melee stun significantly, and added a very, very short delay after melee swing with the Gnasher. Note that Sawed Off now inherits from the Gnasher, so this change will affect both. Melee was getting more kills than all other weapons in the game combined, excluding the Gnasher.
- Lancer buffed (about a 15% increase). My gut says that's a bit much - and Pete is wary as well - but we wanted to let it play out a bit and see how it shifted the balance of gameplay. In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words!) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem). Obviously, the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but we should still look at it.
- Retro and HB both given a very, very, small buff (1 bullet fewer to kill with Retro, and a fraction of a bullet less (math is fun!) for the HB) to help them hang with the new and improved (?) Lancer.
ThePointyEnd
Banned
No one was talking about Gears of War Judgment. We were talking about Gears of War 3.
Finally managed to get some play time again after an almost week off. Tried overrun and survival. Yikes, both are really bleh. Can't believe they replaced horde with this garbage.
Trying to beat the campaign solo on insane has to be the most enjoyable portion of this all. I've only finished the first 6 chapters but honestly, once that's done and I'm only playing TDM/Execution this game is going to die relatively quickly in my eyes.
Also, the classic hammerburst is my favorite loadout weapon for sure. I was tearing people up with that thing playing domination yesterday even with all these assholes trying to two-piece me.
Trying to beat the campaign solo on insane has to be the most enjoyable portion of this all. I've only finished the first 6 chapters but honestly, once that's done and I'm only playing TDM/Execution this game is going to die relatively quickly in my eyes.
Also, the classic hammerburst is my favorite loadout weapon for sure. I was tearing people up with that thing playing domination yesterday even with all these assholes trying to two-piece me.
BeekleMatter
Member
The melee is essentially useless again, finally! Two piecing was out of control. I don't agree with the buffs on the assault weapons though.
mickcenary
Member
Blergh. Fucking EPIC. Suck it up and realise that the Gnasher is the primary differentiator between your game and the plethora of other shitty shooters out there; it is why fans of the series hang around, so stop trying to bury it.
Syph Medwes
Member
Yea, my real problem lay with the gnasher. It wasn't so much that the lancer and other weapons weren't powerful enough, it was that the gnasher was so OP. Especially since considering the lack of DBNO this added to the reduction of your character's ability to eat bullets as in previous Gears games.
Happy with the changes though, now let's see some more (free) maps!
blood drive
Yes. Exactly.
"In the first week of release, approx. 80% of all kills in MP were from the Gnasher. (Were you one of the people who claimed this was going to be a Rifle only game? Eat your words!
) I would love to hear your thoughts as to whether this is because the Gnasher is the preferred weapon (not a problem) or if the Gnasher is the only way to play because balance is off (a problem). Obviously, the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but we should still look at it."What the fuck is Epic thinking? No, The Gnasher is getting so much use because it is more fun, OBVIOUSLY. Especially with FFA being a new gametype, where the run and gun chaotic style of play naturally lends itself to CQC and plenty of Gnasher gameplay. I wish they would stop trying to find ways to make the Gnasher disadvantaged because they think balance is necessary. The problem is that if a Gnasher is balanced with other things, it will be used by more people, therefore to skew the numbers in a more "balanced" favor, they actually make everything else stronger.
Gtfo Epic.
And you make a good point, tonight I was playing TDM with my two Gearfriends and we all commented how we don't want to stand around shooting lancers. That's not fun, if that were fun I would play any other shooter. CQC in Gears (and special weapons) are what make Gears fundamentally different and more fun than other shooters to me. All the way back since Gears 1.
Heres some in depth GOWJ discussion
I pretty much echo all of this as i have previously posted here on GAF.
Active Reload - Episode 4 - What needs to be fixed..
http://www.twitch.tv/activereload/b/386282181
Cast: @CrReaM @Arctyc @ImmortalSpawn @Fatalstryke @ElNegroSupremo
They discuss the fatal flaw on balancing under numbers & statistic, FFA design maps, lack of content and support, ninja buff updates, the state of GOW competitive and more.
Quin is also in the chat.
Edit:
Just a thought that keeps crossing over my head, why in the fuck after 4 titles have they not been consistent in the direction of the MP franchise, why are we still fighting the mechanics/metagame/modes/weapons/content/maps/updates damn near 7 damn years out since GOW1.
baffling.
Start with GOW3/ (1) as your formula, implement some kick ass weapons like you did with GOWJ, keep your Weapon balance from GOW3 with your improved rifle tweaks from GOWJ launch, build around Execution/TDM modes, Focus on team play, build quality balanced maps and have enough content out of the box to keep your players satisfied and call it day (for years to come).
Also, if the majority of your statistics have people playing with the Gnasher why punish them for it for being fun, its been 4 titles, countless updates across all titles and yet people still gravitise towards it because its so unique,fun and gratifying. Rifles have always, ALWAYS been very vital and the most effective to use in getting map dominance and pinning your enemy down.
doesnt help the stats that people tend to finish people of with the Gnasher after usage from a rifle.
I pretty much echo all of this as i have previously posted here on GAF.
Active Reload - Episode 4 - What needs to be fixed..
http://www.twitch.tv/activereload/b/386282181
Cast: @CrReaM @Arctyc @ImmortalSpawn @Fatalstryke @ElNegroSupremo
They discuss the fatal flaw on balancing under numbers & statistic, FFA design maps, lack of content and support, ninja buff updates, the state of GOW competitive and more.
Quin is also in the chat.
Edit:
Just a thought that keeps crossing over my head, why in the fuck after 4 titles have they not been consistent in the direction of the MP franchise, why are we still fighting the mechanics/metagame/modes/weapons/content/maps/updates damn near 7 damn years out since GOW1.
baffling.
Start with GOW3/ (1) as your formula, implement some kick ass weapons like you did with GOWJ, keep your Weapon balance from GOW3 with your improved rifle tweaks from GOWJ launch, build around Execution/TDM modes, Focus on team play, build quality balanced maps and have enough content out of the box to keep your players satisfied and call it day (for years to come).
Also, if the majority of your statistics have people playing with the Gnasher why punish them for it for being fun, its been 4 titles, countless updates across all titles and yet people still gravitise towards it because its so unique,fun and gratifying. Rifles have always, ALWAYS been very vital and the most effective to use in getting map dominance and pinning your enemy down.
doesnt help the stats that people tend to finish people of with the Gnasher after usage from a rifle.
BeekleMatter
Member
Why can't EPIC just admit that Gears is supposed to be a gnasher fest and make everything but it and the longshot suck like back in Gears 1. This game is feeling much better now though, after the last update.
In some cases though, you will get a team of all rifle users... and you can't do anything. I hate the rifles so much. HB/Retro are so OP and the lancer is too now.
In some cases though, you will get a team of all rifle users... and you can't do anything. I hate the rifles so much. HB/Retro are so OP and the lancer is too now.
Dont agree
Gears is not just about Gnasher, its way more than that, without getting into a long post the Rifles have always been an important part of the franchise, GOW1/2/3 rifles in both casual & competitive environment was essential for getting the win/map dominance and power weapons, if you went out wit all Gnasher, you and your team would be over very quick. Gears is about great compact maps (ala GOW1) balanced maps,spawns & weapons with both opposing teams (COG vs Locust) fighting over map dominance and pushing to gain Power Weapon to your teams advantage.
Gears also allowed for great solo players to shine but mostly can be put down with a good 2v1 effort, also for the record GOW1 had an amazing lancer, it just was the netcode and no dedicated servers that misguided peoples perception, on lan it worked flawlessly. the longshot on the other hand has definetly taken a back seat
to many sniper rifles to chose from that are more effective EG: The lovely Breechshot and default Marksa.GOW1> approx 60%+ rifle clip for the kill
GOWJ> approx 25%
GOW1/2/3 : Team orientated play
GOWJ : FFA/One man army
ThePointyEnd
Banned
I agree with...your disagreement. If i look at my stats for Gears 3, only 1/3 of my kills are with the Gnasher. 17% are with the Boomshot. 7% with Frags. 4% with the digger. 15% retro. 7% Hammerburst (I'm a late convert and it's the only rifle I use now). Etc.
Gears 3 especially was very balanced and all weapons are useful and all maps are designed where all weapons can be used appropriately.
I never thought of Gears 3 as a Gnasher game. GOWJ, though, it's ALL EVERYONE USED . 77% of my kills are Gnasher. Why? Because the maps are garbage and there are just too many surprise 'there's a guy in my face' for a rifle to be effective.
That said, I've not gone back since the title update. Don't know that I will either.
ThePointyEnd
Banned
Because they wanted to attract a new audience is what I've heard.
yankeehater
Member
People complain all the time when sequels are just more of the same, and now a dev actually does try something different and everyone gets all teary eyed that they changed anything. I am glad they switched things up after there already being 3 games that play very similar within 1 gen.
Interfectum
Member
Is there any chance of them adding horde mode to this game? I miss that shit... =/