Doesn't work for me personally, it's just empty pandering.
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Ghost in the Shell (2017) Review Thread
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Whompa02
Member
Well said and I completely agree. I just go back to stuff like Apocalypto getting trashed by some for Mel Gibson being a crazy asshole, yet the film itself may have been great (I have that on my "to see" list).
The separation between art (or movie making if someone is upset by me saying movies are art) and politics is just too hard sometimes I guess.
Brian_FETO
Banned
It's harder to separate art from "external bullshit" when they decide to directly reference it in the script (which to me was a baaaaaad idea, neat in practice but you aren't winning anyone over with that and they forcefully invite that shit in)
I do agree though that at a certain point it's falling into "I don't like this person, therefore the movie is bad" territory
There's plenty of stuff holding back the film outside of the casting. The only way I could see a different lead elevating it critically is if it's a "breakout performance" or something for an actress
This is actually a viewpoint I can agree with. Them referencing it pretty much did set them up for the responses it is getting. Though I think this plot point did set up up something emotional, in reality it didn't really add anything that couldn't have been tackled by approaching it in a different, less sensitive manner.
Just got back from seeing it.
outcome, such as this film is. Visually, this adaption of Ghost in the Shell is absolutely breathtaking. I don't know if I've ever seen such a beautifully shot CGI film before. The visual world building was a masterclass, and the visual artists that crafted it are amazing at their work. I really felt that the world was faithfully adapted from the original film. Unfortunately, the beautiful world was completely dead and hollow. The acting in this film was terrible. Apart from Scarlett Johansson and a couple of others such as Kitano Takeshi, made me cringe multiple times. The delivery between the actors felt flat and phoned in more times than I bothered to count, which was disappointing. They certainly weren't convincing anyone. Also, I felt that Rupert Sanders really doesn't know how to deliver tone and feeling. The cutting in this film felt disjointed, and many scenes felt rushed and awkwardly inserted, which just made it feel illogical and frankly amateurish. The film is trying to hit so many story points without really hitting anyone, switching scene to scene without any fluidity. The organic unfolding that the film should of had felt technically forced and rough around the edges. Very sloppy. Section 9 were featured so little in this film that there weren't any connection to any of the characters, which I thought was a shame. Togusa and the rest of the team should of had a bigger part in this film, and unfortunately, they were almost written out. As for Scarlett, I thought she did a solid job considering what she was working with. The script was absolutely amateur, but she did her part as best as she could of, which I liked. I'm glad that she didn't phone it in like so many others in this film. Battou was also solid in this. The interaction between Major and Battou was on point, which I liked.
The soundtrack was forgettable in this, and didn't do much to lift up the film. This was yet again a missed opportunity to give this movie depth and feeling, but it just rang hollow. Very bland and uninteresting.
All in all, the visuals were magnificent, and Scarlett, Battou and Kitano Takeshi did solid jobs. Another plus were all the easter eggs (The dog, the plane scene etc) which I felt was a nice touch. However, the rest were just uninteresting and bland, frankly. What this movie needed was a director that knew how to capture mood and feeling, that knew how to transition between scenes fluidly, and that focused on highlighting the story beats that ultimately defines the movie for what it was. Unfortunately, the focus was on the action sequences rather than the underlying reasoning and the allusions behind the happenings of this film. The movie also should of had writers that ultimately understood what the original film was about, and what message it was trying to portray. It just felt too dumbed down for its own good, and treats the audience as brain dead without the ability to think for themselves. Although I do appreciate the effort of bringing anime to the silver screen (especially great ones as GiTS), Hollywood shouldn't really be bothering if they must restrict themselves creatively like they did with this. Hopefully, they'll stop doing that at some point.
4/10
The juxtaposition between the breathtaking visuals and the plot was indeed very interesting to watch. I had a hunch about it going in, but it's hard to prepare for such a weird
outcome, such as this film is. Visually, this adaption of Ghost in the Shell is absolutely breathtaking. I don't know if I've ever seen such a beautifully shot CGI film before. The visual world building was a masterclass, and the visual artists that crafted it are amazing at their work. I really felt that the world was faithfully adapted from the original film. Unfortunately, the beautiful world was completely dead and hollow. The acting in this film was terrible. Apart from Scarlett Johansson and a couple of others such as Kitano Takeshi, made me cringe multiple times. The delivery between the actors felt flat and phoned in more times than I bothered to count, which was disappointing. They certainly weren't convincing anyone. Also, I felt that Rupert Sanders really doesn't know how to deliver tone and feeling. The cutting in this film felt disjointed, and many scenes felt rushed and awkwardly inserted, which just made it feel illogical and frankly amateurish. The film is trying to hit so many story points without really hitting anyone, switching scene to scene without any fluidity. The organic unfolding that the film should of had felt technically forced and rough around the edges. Very sloppy. Section 9 were featured so little in this film that there weren't any connection to any of the characters, which I thought was a shame. Togusa and the rest of the team should of had a bigger part in this film, and unfortunately, they were almost written out. As for Scarlett, I thought she did a solid job considering what she was working with. The script was absolutely amateur, but she did her part as best as she could of, which I liked. I'm glad that she didn't phone it in like so many others in this film. Battou was also solid in this. The interaction between Major and Battou was on point, which I liked.
Now, onto the spoiler territory (be warned, spoilers about the 95 film ahead as well).
The thing about the original film is that Motoko Kusunagi was living in a world that wasn't black and white. It was an ambiguous world with ambiguous reasons. The discovery of the self and the journey towards the truth was masterfully crafted in the original film. Motoko was genuinely trying to discover the reasons behind her being, and the world around her, and her resolve felt so much more powerful than what it did in this. We never really find out who she really was in the original film, and the ambiguity and uncertainty reflects and alludes to the philosophical idea about our own existence. Why are we really here? Who are we really? The movie isn't really trying to answer that question, but is instead asking that question to the audience. That's the exact opposite what they did here, which I feel misses the entire point. We shouldn't really know who the Major really was before, because that's irrelevant for us. It's not about the goal, but the journey towards the goal. That's why I felt that they mishandled the second and the third act. The twist switch that they went with in this one felt flat and unconvincing, and also made Kuze a shadow of what the Puppetmaster was in the original film. It's unfortunate that the philosophical elements that made the original movie the cult classic that it is, wasn't carried over into this adaption. The exploration of the consciousness mind, where the borders between sentient and artificial life merges was masterfully crafted in the original. The idea that A.I could reach a higher transcendent state that could make them become sentient begs the question of what life really is. If a machine can think for itself, does it mean that it's "alive"? As the famous Descartes once said in order to prove his existence: Cogito ergo sum, I think, therefore I am. Major might of been a human brain in a robot body, the Ghost in the Shell, but she too struggled with her existence of being. The problem with this adaption is that the movie is trying to answer all the questions that it shallowly brings forth, and it does it in a unfulfilling way. We never really connect with Major or her past, since she learns her true reason for existing in this film. The uncertainty about her background should of been prevalent throughout the film, since her journey towards discovery is what makes her human.
All in all, the visuals were magnificent, and Scarlett, Battou and Kitano Takeshi did solid jobs. Another plus were all the easter eggs (The dog, the plane scene etc) which I felt was a nice touch. However, the rest were just uninteresting and bland, frankly. What this movie needed was a director that knew how to capture mood and feeling, that knew how to transition between scenes fluidly, and that focused on highlighting the story beats that ultimately defines the movie for what it was. Unfortunately, the focus was on the action sequences rather than the underlying reasoning and the allusions behind the happenings of this film. The movie also should of had writers that ultimately understood what the original film was about, and what message it was trying to portray. It just felt too dumbed down for its own good, and treats the audience as brain dead without the ability to think for themselves. Although I do appreciate the effort of bringing anime to the silver screen (especially great ones as GiTS), Hollywood shouldn't really be bothering if they must restrict themselves creatively like they did with this. Hopefully, they'll stop doing that at some point.
4/10
SuperStiltzkin
Member
The transhumanism message is a shallow excuse. I've said this from the beginning that if they ever tried to play the whitewashing off as:
Then it only plays if she
But they don't. They play it fucking safe and keep her
It's a bullshit excuse. If they actually cared about that message and those themes, they would have taken it all the way and done something ballsy with the casting.
Oh race and gender doesn't matter she can be any race she wants.
changes bodies from Scarjo to an asian or black body at the end of the movie.
white.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Watch out! They'll soon label you a liberal racist. I defended ScarJo's casting. Reasoning is that there are no Asian-American actresses who can carry a 120 million dollar niche sci-fi movie made from obscure anime/manga at the moment. The execs will not risk that budget on some unknown b-list actress. ScarJo will at least bring the minimum with her sex appeal.
Apparently I'm a racist. I also can't like beautiful Asian women, because that's racism as well. I also pointed out how manga and anime oppresses women, but apparently that's ok, because nobody took the bait and only wanted to talk how delusional I am. There are some very politically driven hypocritical people here, watch out. Most likely they haven't even seen the movie and never will, because these reasons. Movies are serious business, not entertainment.
Brian_FETO
Banned
It comes off as them stumbling over themselves like "no guys it's cool we get it" and they don't
I'm not particularly bothered by ScarJo being cast but doing something like that is super irritating like you're trying to outsmart the criticism and it ends up poisoning your film
There are some good ideas in there removed from the casting criticism but with how much it's dominated all discussion of the film, it's impossible to see it as anything else but a lame copout
You misunderstand. This isn't a criticism of the external politics. My point is that the film is an utter failure as art itself in quelling any issues people have with it.
A good film could have done so, but given there is so little substance to the film, this is what is interesting to talk about, and what dominates. It doesn't help that the film explicitly addresses these questions, and deals with it badly.
jack_package_200
Banned
lol. Tag quote...
Brian_FETO
Banned
Wish they could've just done a more standard action movie with the license
Batou/Major was good stuff
The world/environments were solid
The deep dive stuff was neat
All of the sad attempts quelling criticism/approaching the original's themes are pretty miserable. It works at times but would've been much better as a subtle thing in the background. Like maybe every once in a while there's just thinking about "what am I?"
I made the comparison in the OT but they could've done something like a Dredd. I don't particularly think Dredd is amazing but it made people happy. You can do something neat and say "hey we aren't the anime/manga, but maybe you'll dig this" and play to your strengths as a standard big budget Hollywood production. They go on a mission. There's fanservice. We did it
Like the first words actually spoken in the film are from the one corporate exec and I'm just like "ohh......great...."
I saw people complaining that they hammer in the "ghost" thing but that's hardly an issue (especially when you compare it to the manga being like a fucking science book of infodump)
SuperStiltzkin
Member
You do know the movie directly addresses the whitewashing right? It's not some background shit we're nitpicking. The movie tries to implement it as part of the plot.
I'm fine with Scarlett Johannsen playing Mira Kellan. I was happy when I heard they changed her name. I think she's good casting for an adaptation. But she is literally a
white person portraying someone named Motoko Kusanagi. That is her.
Rumblebones
Banned
Saw it today.
There's a good movie buried under some layers of bad storytelling, bizarre creative decisions and poor acting.
I think this film will end up being more offensive than even anticipated.
Mediocrity aside, the visuals are damn good in IMAX.
There's a good movie buried under some layers of bad storytelling, bizarre creative decisions and poor acting.
I think this film will end up being more offensive than even anticipated.
Mediocrity aside, the visuals are damn good in IMAX.
Criticizing the whitewashing isn't criticizing something external because the movie itself makes it an intrinsic part of the story. At that point, people that have seen the movie and still criticizing it are criticizing a major part of the story. This is not hard to understand.
jack_package_200
Banned
Curious to see if Beauty and the Beast is #1 at the box office again.
There was no one at my theater for this. Word of mouth is probably going to kill this.
There was no one at my theater for this. Word of mouth is probably going to kill this.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Yeah, it's the previously established and fleshed out universe the movie builds on, unfortunately it brings nothing new or meaningful to it
Yeah I live in Orlando, went to a showing at 2:30 pm on a Friday and there were only about 14 people there.
Brian_FETO
Banned
.......what?
"Good movie" doesn't have to mean 100% fresh and original movie. I'm assuming we're measuring good by entertainment value and consistency of quality
It's a "live action adaptation", all it needs to do is make the license work in live action. The film absolutely does this in parts, and not solely in shot-for-shot recreations. You can see in some scenes how if they focused on solving a particular mystery with action sequences and embracing/paying homage to the license, it'd probably be a more effective film
Majority of the ideas regarding the central plot of Major's identity are trash, and the lack of punch in emotional scenes cheapen the film
Bullshit. They originally wanted Margot Robbie but she pulled out to do Suicide Squad.
Hollywood will always chose unknown white actors over anyone without batting an eye.
Angry Joe is out
7 out of 10, they liked the movie
If you look at the user reviews on metacritic for example or the rating on imdb I would not bet on it
7 out of 10, they liked the movie
If you look at the user reviews on metacritic for example or the rating on imdb I would not bet on it
s_mirage
Member
Just got back from seeing this and, despite going in prepared to hate it, I really enjoyed it. I don't necessarily think it's the best adaptation of the source material, but the visuals were really well done and I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked Pilou Asbæk's Batou and "Beat" Takeshi's Aramaki. It's a shame the rest of the team were almost absent. Also, did the Major have a bad back or something? Her walk was a little odd.
The biggest let down of the film was the soundtrack. It wasn't bad, it was just kind of... there. I can't remember any of it after only a few hours. Synth that fit the tone of the film, yeah, but it did little to enhance anything. Some of the scenes in the 95 film were made memorable by its soundtrack, but nothing of the sort really happened here.
The biggest let down of the film was the soundtrack. It wasn't bad, it was just kind of... there. I can't remember any of it after only a few hours. Synth that fit the tone of the film, yeah, but it did little to enhance anything. Some of the scenes in the 95 film were made memorable by its soundtrack, but nothing of the sort really happened here.
Just got back from the theater seeing it.
I don't know what the fuck the press was smoking, this movie was great!
Now granted, I love gits, and was expecting gutter trash walking in. I walked in expecting to HATE this movie, but I was wrong, I ended up liking it a hell of a lot more than I thought possible.
I don't know what the fuck the press was smoking, this movie was great!
Now granted, I love gits, and was expecting gutter trash walking in. I walked in expecting to HATE this movie, but I was wrong, I ended up liking it a hell of a lot more than I thought possible.
jack_package_200
Banned
I don't think imdb and metacritic are accurate places to judge overall word of mouth. On the day BvS was released, fanboys flooded the imdb page to try to make the average rating as high as possible.
Frozenprince
Banned
God damn.
Whitewashing is literally a plot point in the movie. Two characters are whitewashed as a PART OF THEIR STORYLINE. That's a key narrative aspect to the film. It's the entire backbone of the narrative. Without the whitewashing the narrative is altered at a fundamental level.
How do you not see the issue? How do you still insist on making yourself a victim when you obviously aren't?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Some part of me believes Snyder could have done a better job with this. He is a weeb.
First of all, in terms of it being an adaptation, this movie is very "american". Like, the pacing, the changes made, the way it ends, it's very....american lol. Like FUCK YEAH< THE HEROs GETS THE BAD GUY AND WE ALL HAVE PIZZAS AT THE END kind of american. But in gits. It's kinda hard to convey, but it feels different and that wasn't a bad thing surprisingly. Like not Dragonball Evolution bad.
I got the impression that the filmmakers actually gave a shit.
I got the impression that the filmmakers actually gave a shit.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Audience scores on RT with about 80% > have good word of mouth.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/beauty_and_the_beast_2017/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sabans_power_rangers/
For older examples:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jurassic_world/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/zootopia/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/guardians_of_the_galaxy/
BvS' audience score is comparable to GiTS.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ghost_in_the_shell_2017/
The negative reception will shit on this movie's legs much like BvS.
Not to say that this film is perfect, and I suspect some of the changes made REALLY won't sit well with some people, particularly how they explain Major's origin, but I mean considering how this is a big budget hollywood adaptation of a well respected anime, and we got THIS, I'm genuinely shocked at how good it turned out to be.
If you look at movies like Lucy, Warcraft or Power Rangers or several other examples I would not bet on it. It was a world wide release, so we will see.
I was also very happy at the end I recommended it to several of my friends. My whole group was quite amazed how good it was.
On the other hand you have Lucy. That said, I don't see this movie having great legs or doing all that well internationally. This is no Lucy.
Frozenprince
Banned
This cost a lot more than Lucy and is getting a big marketing push, it'll probably need to do upwards of $150M Internationally just to break even. Cause I don't think it's getting even half it's budget back domestic.
You're probably right, my theater was damn near empty.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I think Lucy sold itself with its marketing much better than GiTS ever did with theirs. And it's an original property so more people are incentivized to see it versus an underwhelming, botched adaptation of an anime film. Also what films did Lucy compete with upon release? GiTS has so much more competition right now...
Warcraft is a gigantic brand all on its own in China, which is the box office that saved it. I don't think GiTS is comparable here.
Power Rangers is projected to hold the second spot in the box office this weekend while GiTs is opening at #4.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Hm I probably forgot wrong. Oh well.
Regardless, they're merely projections. People are mostly iffy on who'll win out in the end between the two. Losing to Boss Baby though? Ouch.
Doctor Decimate
Member
says a lot about this movie that its only actual engagement with race is as a plot twist. there are many implications to building it into the plot and a lot of themes that can branch off of it, but here it's just a cheap plot twist used as a shorthand for a truly drastic change.
it's to be expected because most of its larger themes are parroted near-verbatim from the original so the movie doesn't feel like it has anything of its own to say, nor does it seem to understand what it's saying, sort of like how you repeated the things adults said when you were a kid because adults said them.
that doesn't really make it any less insulting unfortunately.
it's to be expected because most of its larger themes are parroted near-verbatim from the original so the movie doesn't feel like it has anything of its own to say, nor does it seem to understand what it's saying, sort of like how you repeated the things adults said when you were a kid because adults said them.
that doesn't really make it any less insulting unfortunately.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Its funny. It makes you wonder why the film show runners didn't just recreate the original scene for scene if they wanted to come close. That would have been critically acclaimed, and as a result drew more viewers. As a result you create a paled version. Taking an obviously cerebral film, regardless of how you feel about the original, and converting it to some Americanized bombastic version. Its like, what did you expect?
Poor GRIMES
Banned
That was clearly the intention
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
That's just absolutely frustrating. Because they kind of sort of get it. But the film runners are either getting pushed by the studio or they're messing it up themselves. The template is RIGHT THERE. It's not even like they're completely translating from a different medium to another.
I was expecting Dragonball Evolution levels of shit, ended up better than I expected. This is clearly never going to stand up to the original. And it's very Americanized.
I went in with no expectations and didn't really know much about it
It's not that great and very Americanized with lots of stuff changed for no real reason; but it still works ok on it's own and it has lots of classic scenes, that while overall not as good as the originals or as good as they might have been, still has some novelty in seeing in live action/cg
But damn it, Takeshi Kitano is such a badass that I can't help loving every scene he's in even if I can't say his acting was really anything special in this
It's not that great and very Americanized with lots of stuff changed for no real reason; but it still works ok on it's own and it has lots of classic scenes, that while overall not as good as the originals or as good as they might have been, still has some novelty in seeing in live action/cg
But damn it, Takeshi Kitano is such a badass that I can't help loving every scene he's in even if I can't say his acting was really anything special in this
Dash_Riprock
Member
So the
ending was created in response to the controversy, right? No way in hell was that bullshit planned from the start.
Japanese all along
I'm thinking either the studio/filmmakers were so desperate to "fix" the movie because of the backlash that they might have thought that it could actually work, or they were that dumb to make the twist a thing all along. We'll probably never know.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
The DoubleToasted review had me in stitches at the end.
I don't think I've ever heard Korey lose his shit that quick.
I don't think I've ever heard Korey lose his shit that quick.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
From when we had the movie that stuff was always there from the beginning
The ending though was changed as test audience rated it poorly and that's why
we now have what I call the shoot bang ending with Kuze
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