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[quickdevilred]

If your game has ridiculous grinds in it and you yourself as the developers recognize that it's lame and not worth it, you have an abject failure in game design, period.

If you're giving people the chance to pay their way out of it but also claiming it's not about the money, then you are acknowledging that the core design of your game is severely flawed. It's either that or you want more money, plain and simple.

does it really have ridiculous grinds though?
All you get from levelling up is... levelling up, its not like an RPG where your abilities go up. it may take a while to buy the cars but you can always rent good cars while playing multiplayer or test tracks etc.

I don't agree with paying for extra crap in a game so I will never even buy a car pack, but this 'grind' seems similar to forza 2-4 for me?

 

[Metalingus5150]

If he wants to win back the fans, take out the micro transactions, it's really that simple

 

[Polioliolio]

What a load of crap..

Boohoo.. we just want to make a good game.. that's why we loaded it with yet unseen monetization schemes in console games. We just wanted to be excited about cars, we swear. We thought you liked paying more out of your pocket for something you already bought. We thoguht you liked missing features.. How does that not excite you car fans?

Boo-fucking-hoo.

 

[Reallink]

Guy is so full of shit he's about to explode.

 

[dark_chris]

THEN WHY DOES IT COST MONEY?

I know right?!?! x'D bwhahaha!
What a fool.

 

[jelly]

You created the wrong solution Mr Greenwalt.

The answer is simple, cheat codes or more sensible, separate game modes that allow access to all cars at no extra cost. People get the experience they want.

There is no excuse.

 

[GavinGT]

So just change the economy. It can't be THAT hard, can it?

 

[FStop7]

Dan,

You can win me back for 1 week for $3.99. Or you can win me back at 2X as fast for $8.99. Or a season pass to win me back is $49.99.

 

[Megasoum]

Forza 5 is a very shallow game. When compared to forza 4. There are just too many missing features. I went to paint my car yesterday just to find out that you can no longer get individual designs from other people. And what's up with free play. Its bad enough you limit the selection of cars but you also took out time trials? Forza 5 is basicly what I expected from the free PlayStation plus version of drive club. They only difference is forza 5 cost me 60 bucks.

Basically it's the perfect example of a launch game. I've been telling people for months to manager their expectations since the game would be a launch title. It's always like that.

I remember when the 360 came out and Madden 06 had like half the features of 05 in it.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Misread intentions? What else is there to gather from an aggressively advertised and outrageously priced real money economy system?

 

[SmokyDave]

You've made it pretty clear you don't care for that, but a lot of people do. Owning a 250GTO was something of a milestone for people, for example. Kinda like some super rare weapon in an RPG that you only get near the end of the game and after a lot of playing(except that the playing here is racing - which is fun!).

Bully for those people. For the people that get their milestones from smashing lap records, I'd rather they could access the 250GTO in the game that they paid full price for without excessively grinding or being milked for cash.

Racing is fun, yeah. Even more so when you can freely choose which cars you race and which tracks you race them on.

 

[DoYouEvenLift?]

Honestly, if this guy had any integrity, he'd just remove the microtransactions from the game. That, or make the game free. Have some balls, man.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

This guy should have a show on Fox with Bill O'Reilly.

 

[Baleoce]

We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration, and that was based on feedback from players in Forza 4 - there's a small group of players that can't be bothered to do things and they have disposable income.
...

it's not about making more money, it was actually about saving people's time when doing the grind.

His wordsmithing skills just leveled up.

 

[Shambles]

I think the only person he bumps further down my empathy list is those poor NSA souls who are sad that nobody wants to be their friend.

 

[Roshin]

...it's not about making more money, it was actually about saving people's time when doing the grind...

Yeah, they're doing you a favour, but appearantly you're too thick to get it.

 

[Gaz_RB]

I just don't understand the idea that you're respecting people's time with these. It's such a shitty excuse. If you really cared, you wouldn't charge us for it, you'd just have a fast track option in the game, free of charge.

We're not buying it.

Dan,

You can win me back for 1 week for $3.99. Or you can win me back at 2X as fast for $8.99. Or a season pass to win me back is $49.99.

lmao

He'll wait for the GOTY edition

 

[shandy706]

There is absolutely no grinding in Forza 5 so far for me. None

I have over 4 million credits and have run over 100 races. I've bought quite a few cars and have yet to race a many of them. I've yet to spend a dime of the free credits they gave me ($4 million..I still have more than that so have yet to use any of it up), and have not once had any reason to use the MTs.

I've had so much money from racing and my AI racing while I'm away, I've yet to spend a dime of what T10 gave me in rewards.

I'd prefer the MTs were removed, but they have effected the game in NO WAY in the time I've played it. Every league has been available to me and I've not been forced to buy anything (unaffordable) for any event so far. I question if the people saying things like this...

People read your intentions just fine, that's why you're issuing a non-apology right now.

If it was just about offering alternatives and giving people more options, you wouldn't have reshaped the entire game around trying to nickel and dime people at every opportunity.

....have ever played or seen the game in action in any way.

 

[quickdevilred]

The more I read this, the more surreal it gets.

I understand that completely...
If I spend 100 in game hours to make the money to buy that car, I'm going to be pretty ticked off at all the people driving it online who just paid 2 bucks real money to get it.

Its not the developers prerogative to give everything to their players for free and easy. personally I wouldn't even have the money option to buy the car but if some people are sooooo desperate that they will pay 50-100 bucks for a single car then why on earth would a developer who wants to make money stop them?

 

[Orayn]

People read your intentions just fine, that's why you're issuing a non-apology right now.

If it was just about offering alternatives and giving people more options, you wouldn't have reshaped the entire game around trying to nickel and dime people at every opportunity.

 

[Moosehole]

THEN WHY DOES IT COST MONEY?

This.

This whole "poor me" crap comes off as totally disingenuous. If you want to cut out the grind, save people time and it truly isn't about making more money, increase the rewards for races.

 

[Oyashrio-Sama]

We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration,

lol, birth of a new new buzzword right here.

 

[Nymphae]

As a creative director, we were looking at it as basically giving people cheats, but if you want to put cheats in you have to pay for them, which puts a barrier in and makes it exclusive to those who want to pay for them.

If it's not about money, and you look at it as giving people cheats, how about just adding some fucking cheat codes?

Why are you charging for them? Why do I have to pay for them, if it isn't about money? If you respect my time so much, these cheat codes should be included in the $60 + price tag, no?

 

[kiunchbb]

He is disappointed people ain't throwing money at them for obvious scam. This letter is an insult to our intelligent.

Well I guess if people were throwing money at me knowing that it is a complete rip off, I wouldn't consider them to be very bright either.

 

[golem]

Acceleration for people who pay.. deceleration for the rest of us

 

[gigantor21]

THEN WHY DOES IT COST MONEY?

Seriously. If that was the case they should've just implemented a cheat/passcode system or something.

Putting a price on it means they have a financial incentive to make the game more grindy on purpose to facilitate paying for shortcuts. That's what I hate about this practice in the first place, and why I facepalm whenever people use the "we don't have time to unlock everything" excuse. It's very much out of the mobile playbook. -_-

 

[Mesoian]

lol, birth of a new new buzzword right here.

"Energy"

People have been doing this for years, just no on consoles. It's always been reviled, and why he thought it would be different here is bewildering.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Man was always a colossal bullshitter, seems to have found his apogee here.

If you want the sim guys with no time to have access to better cars why not include a fucking arcade mode?

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

Sounds like a nice enough guy, and the idea of offering an accelerated system for those with less time and are willing to pay for the fastest cars isn't the bad thing. But the second you change the payout of races and how much cars costs to create a reason to grind / want these accelerators, when in previous games there was none, is the big problem. The fact that he avoids ever mentioning how the payout of races changed is bs plain and simple.

 

[Foffy]

Time is money.

Time is time! Come awn.

 

[DJwest]

Six hours till GAF apocalypse.

Fixed.

 

[Beant]

lol, birth of a new new buzzword right here.

When you run out of lives in candy crush and have to buy more, that's not a paywall either. It is simply a way to accelerate real time.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

If your game has ridiculous grinds in it and you yourself as the developers recognize that it's lame and not worth it, you have an abject failure in game design, period.

If you're giving people the chance to pay their way out of it but also claiming it's not about the money, then you are acknowledging that the core design of your game is severely flawed. It's either that or you want more money, plain and simple.

This plus his statement of, "We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration..." is so hilariously disingenuous.

 

[Ulumsk]

I genuinely think Dan is good people, but playing Forza 5 to me was just off-putting. I get the more muted, "classical" music, sterile vibe they're going for. I get it, I don't like it when GT6 could be considered "upbeat" in comparison, but that's fine. What's not fine is constantly beating me over the head with microtransactions when I've not only paid full price, but paid a premium over that because of irrational fandom(special edition) just leaves me a with a foul taste and I don't like spending time with Forza like I used to. The driving itself is great, but the packaging is just off-putting to me.

 

[quickdevilred]

Forza 5 is a very shallow game. When compared to forza 4. There are just too many missing features. I went to paint my car yesterday just to find out that you can no longer get individual designs from other people. And what's up with free play. Its bad enough you limit the selection of cars but you also took out time trials? Forza 5 is basicly what I expected from the free PlayStation plus version of drive club. They only difference is forza 5 cost me 60 bucks.

it really is a lacking game...
I mean the gameplay (driving) and graphics are good but it is just missing so much stuff
The soundtrack was better in forza 3 and 4, 5 seems like it only has 1 song.
Additionally I am looking and can't even find a way to put my speedometer in KM/h
there are not nearly enough tracks, I expected at least 2x the amount of tracks and 2x the amount of cars.

But oh well I hope forza 5 meets my demands or it may be the first forza I wait for bargain bin.

 

[eXistor]

Are you kidding me, what did he expect? For people to roll over and take it in the ass? Things are rapidly changing in this industry and rarely for the better. I'm looking forward to the day this all implodes on them. A video game crash might be the thing this industry needs right now. Wipe out all the scum in one fell swoop and rebuild it from scratch.

 

[staticneuron]

THEN WHY DOES IT COST MONEY?

Did you read all of it?

but if you want to put cheats in you have to pay for them, which puts a barrier in and makes it exclusive to those who want to pay for them.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

we were looking at it as basically giving people cheats, but if you want to put cheats in you have to pay for them

i have no words for this, first devs take out costumes to make money and numerous other unlockables. now they take out cheats (as such)

 

[Nymphae]

Did you read all of it?

Why do you have to pay for cheats? There are free cheat codes in GTAV.

 

[ab.aeterno]

I feel for the guy because I doubt he personally pushed for the MT model in the form it's in.

That said, this bullshit about charging people with disposable income more to unlock cars so that they feel 'premium' can fuck right off. They do come at a premium, the money I hand over when I buy the game. This artificial scarcity that has crept into the franchise since Forza 3 has totally turned me off Forza.

Yep. It's bullshit. This particularly:

That felt like it was not making the car exclusive enough for those who are willing to pay.

Why is this an issue in the first place? Why should they get the feeling of exclusivity that used to come from spending the time to earn a car, by paying for it? Petiole who pay for this shit aren't doing it to feel exclusive, they're doing it to avoid spending time, which is exactly what you just said a paragraph of two before.

 

[Derrick01]

I think the biggest travesty for me is how people have misread our intentions

This seems to be a Microsoft-wide problem. Just admit you fucked up and got caught and you'll do better in the future. NO ONE misread anything, it's been mathematically proven how insane your microtransaction system was and how unfair it is to people who want to get everything without paying a dime.

All I could see when reading that was the Xbox execs earlier in the year constantly blaming the consumer for not understanding just how groundbreaking their original XB1 plans were.

 

[jsip]

"I think the biggest travesty for me is how people have misread our intentions, because that's just been sad"

Translation: Its not our fault people are stupid.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I understand that completely...
If I spend 100 in game hours to make the money to buy that car, I'm going to be pretty ticked off at all the people driving it online who just paid 2 bucks real money to get it.

Its not the developers prerogative to give everything to their players for free and easy. personally I wouldn't even have the money option to buy the car but if some people are sooooo desperate that they will pay 50-100 bucks for a single car then why on earth would a developer who wants to make money stop them?

Notice how people aren't flipping their shit over GT6's pricing model, which is even more expensive in some cases. That's because GT6 doesn't feel like the game has been adjusted to make spending real money more necessary compared to earlier releases.

 

[Art Teitlebaum]

A very fine game massacred by greed and artful exploitation. Now the PR battle is in full force. Sad and disgusting on so many levels.

 

[dark_chris]

This is so stupid
"Oh the customers are mad at me. Poor us, oh wah wah wah"

Instead of making customers spend more money on a game they paid FULL price for, how about making it unlockable using the old way - challenges, secret races, etc.

Them doing it this way is clear they just wanna squeeze more money outta people. They knew what they were doing and thus I don't feel sorry.
I know someone will defend this saying "but micro transactions are optional, bla bla" same ol argument.

 

[twobear]

If their intention was really to save time for people who didn't want to do the grind, they wouldn't have removed the ability to pick any car in the game from freeplay. They did it to make money, simple as.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

it's not about making more money, it was actually about saving people's time when doing the grind.

If it wasn't about making money, you'd have just made it a cheat code.

You didn't do that though. You attached a price to it.

So don't act like it wasn't about making money. Because it was. We all know it was. Stop treating us like idiots. Even the youngest kids on this forum know what the Contra Code was.

 

[WarMacheen]

we were looking at it as basically giving people cheats, but if you want to put cheats in you have to pay for them

i have no words for this, first devs take out costumes to make money and numerous other unlockables. now they take out cheats (as such)

Taking content out of games only to resell to the customer later is a well established practice and is only going to get worse until there comes a point when the consumer base as a whole says, fuck this

 

[quickdevilred]

If it's not about money, and you look at it as giving people cheats, how about just adding some fucking cheat codes?

Why are you charging for them? Why do I have to pay for them, if it isn't about money? If you respect my time so much, these cheat codes should be included in the $60 + price tag, no?

Why? Because he doesn't want EVERYONE using the best cars in the game.
Which if it was just a cheat code... they would.
Then that car I played 100+ hours to unlock would be worth absolutely nothing. Its not rocket science.

You don't HAVE to pay for them. You can play the GAME and UNLOCK them. Which is what you are supposed to do, quite frankly.

Taking content out of games only to resell to the customer later is a well established practice and is only going to get worse until there comes a point when the consumer base as a whole says, fuck this

they didn't take content out (well they did, but not in this context, in this context they gave cars to people that they should be unlocking with in game credits for money. The content is still in the game for free if you WORK to unlock it).

 

[jayu26]

You know what's the worst part about this, he actually believes it.