You are obviously emotionally invested in this game and see criticism as a personal attack. I'll stop poking you.
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Greenawalt: "Disappointed in myself" from fan reaction; want to win fans back [Forza]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
You are obviously emotionally invested in this game and see criticism as a personal attack. I'll stop poking you.
nick, for forza 5 only, I have paid already around 1100euros, with more to come probably, so, last thing I will do, is defend a shitty thing. in fact, I will fuck it until it dies!
and I said already more than two times, HAVING THE "BUY WITH TOKENS" BUTTONS DISPLAYED IN EVERY FUCKIN'TRANSACTION, IT MAKES THE GAME LOOK CHEAP!!
but thats all it does. nothing more than that. I have written a list that in my opinion contains the things that need to be addressed. look it up if you want.
AFTER those things are rectified, I will have no problem supporting or even focusing on secondary/irrelevant things like the freakin' token buttons.
until then, I will remain on my position that this kind of trolling takes away from the important forza things I want being looked upon and fixed
how about I start poking at you? I am willing to bet that you wont like it at all. so its better you skip the name calling and just focus on the point here.
nick, for forza 5 only, I have paid already around 1100euros, with more to come probably, so, last thing I will do, is defend a shitty thing. in fact, I will fuck it until it dies!
and I said already more than two times, HAVING THE "BUY WITH TOKENS" BUTTONS DISPLAYED IN EVERY FUCKIN'TRANSACTION, IT MAKES THE GAME LOOK CHEAP!!
but thats all it does. nothing more than that. I have written a list that in my opinion contains the things that need to be addressed. look it up if you want.
AFTER those things are rectified, I will have no problem supporting or even focusing on secondary/irrelevant things like the freakin' token buttons.
until then, I will remain on my position that this kind of trolling takes away from the important forza things I want being looked upon and fixed
how about I start poking at you? I am willing to bet that you wont like it at all. so its better you skip the name calling and just focus on the point here.
But one is more important to you, as a hardcore Forza player. The other is more important to me, as someone who fears for the prevalence this has taken in gaming, and will continue to take, if people don't voice their concerns. It seems you agree with what most of the 'trolls' are saying, you just don't think it's as important...so I'm failing to see why you're getting upset. Both are issues, one impacts just this game (which matters to you a lot), the other impacts gaming (and certainly MS's approach) as a whole (which matters to me a lot).
NullPointer
Member
This is why we have different threads. So people can discuss different topics.
Do you think the game would be better without these transactions? Do you think the game needs them?
And do you think a hardcore player is the best baseline representation for how rewarding a progression system is?
Not at all, Most of the criticisms is right on and justified. They deserve all the shit they get for the game.
It's a decent game but far from perfect and it's not a very good forza game maybe it will get better with the changes but right now they dropped the ball.
but if you where a forza player, you would already know that this token thing is really blown out of proportions.
yes, a flagship game makes a good target for anything, but when you are fighting against something that just doesnt manifest itself on forza, at least in a degree worth making it the target, then you know you are not fighting the right battle.
now, if turn10 went and said: "-what? game is perfect, shut the fuck up", then yes, maybe there would be a reason indeed to blow this out of proportions.
but as things are? its 75% system wars in my opinion, and maybe 25% people that eat the bait.
- I only read the official topic and the photomode thread. I have stopped reading all other forza topics because of excessive trolling. (many forza players I know also do the same)
this thread was pointed to me for a specific post in the official thread, feel free to look it up.
- yes, all games would be better without trying to milk the customer who already paid for the fuckin thing.
I understand how the "pay to unlock" scheme works, I think its a shit thing to do, anyway this aims to people of age with less time and more income, but still is SHITTY. not a real problem in forza though.
increased DLC price IS a legitimate thing though, and its a SHAME it always goes lost in the trollings.
- nope, but what I can do with the game in ten days, or in one day, is a 10000% proof that all these claims that you need to spend 5 years racing (or pay up) to get the cars you want are BULLSHIT
IF turn10 whistled indifferently, or had they said "hey, game is perfectly balanced, so get off my back", then you would have a different case.
and new players, you know, they can take advantage of the community, like getting good tunes to greatly help them get on faster with the game, even in its most difficult aspects. such things I want fixed, because I find them to be not up to par, and for the last time I will say that these things are about 100 times more important than the stupid token buttons.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I agree that Turn10 is doing great in how they deal with a very heterogen audience. Drivatars and the difficulty settings you can "filter" them through were kind of mind-blowing the first 10 hours I played the game. Same goes for lap-count and "within top3 for gold", truly great ideas in my mind, Gran Turismo seems a little backwards compared to it. Forzavista is another thing that caters to all the non-gamers but car-lovers among your friends.
But WHY make it accessable, why allow people that aren't that good at driving racing sims to be the hero of their story with a "-20%" difficulty setting if all it leads to in the is being shown how inferior they are should they ever want to buy (with in-game credits!) a high-end car and start the exotic or racing class leagues? It's like CoD luring you with a "very easy" single-player story-mode difficulty and then saying "to play the last two levels, your multiplayer kill/death ratio needs to be xy". They haven't even TRIED to cater to the lower-end audience in point of possible game-completion(on their difficulty).
What we also can agree on is that microtransactions are totally ok, if the core-game design stays unchanged.
Best way: Microtransaction should feel like the devs saying "We love you hardcore fans for loving the product we love to make and we want to give you all the great little extras you're asking for, but to make them costs money, so if you want more paint-shop options, we ARE going to implement them, but we need to ask you for some money to keep this after-release fan-support alive".
transformer
Member
I agree it is far from perfect. The whole genre of simulation racing games if far from perfect. However, "dropped the ball" is a fairly broad and critical statement. What exactly did they screw up so bad in the game that made you form that opinion? In my opinion, the graphics, AI, and physics improvements make this the best forza yet and, furthermore, the best console racer in those categories. I think it is hard to claim they dropped the ball on any of those items, which to me, are the most important for a racing game.
Kudos to Eurogamer for asking some pertinent and marginally difficult questions, but it's disappointing that they didn't push him a little harder on the corporate doublespeak. Microsoft's particular brand of "there's no problem, people just don't understand what we're doing" permeates this interview, and it would be nice to see someone in games journalism challenge that attitude for once.
I don't play racing games, so I won't comment on Forza 5 too much. That said, full price games with in-game solicitations to spend money on F2P-style unlocks and shortcuts are super gross.
I don't play racing games, so I won't comment on Forza 5 too much. That said, full price games with in-game solicitations to spend money on F2P-style unlocks and shortcuts are super gross.
NullPointer
Member
Which is cool, and is your opinion. You're also a hardcore player who already plunked down $110 for the limited edition on day one making you a VIP, or maybe you were already a VIP and started the game with far more in the bank than a new player to the series (via Forza rewards). And even then you don't talk about just playing the game to unlock the content you want - but spell out specific grind techniques that you describe as boring but that are designed to maximize income in as short a time as possible.
So it seems a little odd to say the issue of monetizing the game's progression is overblown when you've taken so many steps to get ahead of it yourself.
And even Turn 10s response doesn't read as someone who recognizes the criticisms with monetization, but as somebody who pushed just a little too far and too early. So they'll tune the prices but god forbid they remove the tokens or accelerators and even the prompts for the same from the game.
What I think will be really instructive is what they do with Horizon and Forza 6. They'll tune Forza 5's economy to avoid the backlash but as long as that monetization exists they'll continue to push it further over time.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
At least he is apologizing, admitting his mistakes & learning from them, unlike Kaz.
Makes me feel confident for the next installment.
There are times that playing GT6 feels like I'm still playing GT1. In a lot of ways the series flat out refused to evolve or step into the current racing generation.
I can honestly say Forza 3 was drastically different from Forza 1 & Forza 5 is drastically different from Forza 2. A.i, career modes, menus, sound, races etc.. all changed for the better across the board (except for the monetizing in F5).
Makes me feel confident for the next installment.
There are times that playing GT6 feels like I'm still playing GT1. In a lot of ways the series flat out refused to evolve or step into the current racing generation.
I can honestly say Forza 3 was drastically different from Forza 1 & Forza 5 is drastically different from Forza 2. A.i, career modes, menus, sound, races etc.. all changed for the better across the board (except for the monetizing in F5).
Nathan_Drake
Member
p3tran how do you have time to do all this leveling up when you are writing manifestos on here? I wish I had this much passion about anything lol.
I think I have put enough facts on the table, to be able to be above and beyond just "a personal opinion". so you are wrong there.
now, about the other things..
I bought VIP online, less than two days ago. And since then, i havent played much/at all because I am finally receiving my wheel on Monday, plus I received my ps4 yesterday, as it was officialy launched in my country.
so all my earnings up to now, are with the regular copy of the game.
Yes, I had ordered and payed for the forza 5 limited edition, which would include vip, but my order never came from game.co.uk, so after a confusing 10 days I decided to buy vip since I see clearly that I will never get my lce from them fuckers.
and yes, in order to be able to afford a bugatti veyron in three hours, THERE HAS to be a "technique" for it, right? ;D
its not like if you dont get the veyron in three hours the game goes sour and kills itself...
so what is your point about good paying techniques? they shouldnt exist?
also, the reward system, its not a cheat of any kind, its an official, supporting system of the game.
yes, I started with rewards, but trust me, I can put up ten more pics of expensive cars I also have in my garage, and those over-compensate for the starting bonuses i got.
bonuses that everybody that has played previous forza games will get. and the ones that just play forza 5.
so,
I dont understand... Are we supposed to look at this as ...a bad thing?!
and to answer your question about WHY I HAD TO RUN AHEAD OF MYSELF IN ACQUIRING CARS,
ITS BECAUSE I READ TOO MANY STUPID THREADS LIKE THIS!!
and i started wanting to get "dat expensive or 2-years-playtime-worth lotus f1" asap
even though I have hardly even perfected a single D class car (which is the lowest class)
or lapped all tracks in any lower class.... so there is your answer.
about how they will fix the economy, I can only make guesses, like you .
the thing is, economy does need some fixing (especially as the automatic reward system sucks big time for now for tuners, painters and good drivatars)
but really is not hurting the game. at all! what it does hurt, is my appetite to do tunes for the community, or the painter's appetite to spend 50 hours to make a fantastic livery. but they have time to correct this, and i think they will. I wrote before that in my opinion the way the system currently works, defined some features of the game.
but the double reward/half price I heard, it will make the game EASY ENOUGH even for the casualest players. (which will be good since t10 aims at all people)
other things I listed before, those in my opinion are way more important for the game.
how anyone can jump on someone who is admitting they are disappointed in themselves and want to do better for their fans, defies logic and any sense of civility.
everyone misjudges how they approach things sometimes and we all often get benefit of the doubt to do better... oh except when it comes to games, then we need to attack, call liars, cheats and scoundrels.
everyone misjudges how they approach things sometimes and we all often get benefit of the doubt to do better... oh except when it comes to games, then we need to attack, call liars, cheats and scoundrels.
Because the "apology" insults our intelligence. The changes to slow down progression were obviously made with the intent of making tokens a more appealing option. Rather than simply acknowledging that this was their intent, they feign ignorance and insist that putting in tokens was actually a favor for people who didn't have the time to run through the ridiculous grind that they put in.
To make things worse, the grind was justified by explaining that they simply wanted expensive cars to be rare. If that was their design goal, there are numerous other ways to accomplish this that don't compromise gameplay by removing:
- Gifted cars when levling up
- Discounts for upgrades
- The ability to drive any car in free play
Dan's apology is loaded with self-pity. I'm almost certain that his orders were passed down from above, but it's pretty obvious that his apology is a total spin on what actually happened.
so, if it is that people will fail to read even the same fuckin' page, there is really no point in all of this...
- you now get MONEY when leveling up, and you level up faster
- the car manufacturer affinity, which lead to parts discounts, has now been moved to be a up to 25% multiplyer of your total race score. in EVERY race.
- still can do this, although not officialy, but it works for EVERYONE
- you now get MONEY when leveling up, and you level up faster
- the car manufacturer affinity, which lead to parts discounts, has now been moved to be a up to 25% multiplyer of your total race score. in EVERY race.
- still can do this, although not officialy, but it works for EVERYONE
SlaughterX
Banned
I would be happy with free DLC tracks and cars.
AdventureRacing
Member
Firstly because his reasoning for putting these things into the game is just terrible. Now that i can see his thought process when developing games it kinda makes me weary of what they will produce in the future. The main issue though is that this comes off as less of an apology and more of just blaming the consumer for not understanding what they were going for. This seems to be a pretty common sentiment with MS apologizing and it's pretty insulting.
Not true at all. The "meat and potatoes" of this game is really good. There are a few issues with lack of content, tracks namely, and some strange design issues but the actual gameplay is really good. The "grind" is non-existent for me because it just feels so good to play, the car-physics are hard to master but when you nail a near-perfect lap it feels so good. Rivals is great and I've hardly scratched the surface of that. Photomode alone is a huge time-sink for me.
The monetization issue is not a problem for me, it is far from necessary to use microtransactions in this game to get what you need. I think I passed the achievement for "Garage worth over 20million credits" over two weeks ago. I also work 80+ hours a week so I don't get much time to play, and have not felt a need to buy any cars with real money.
I was helped out by Forza Rewards in which I was gifted credits for playing previous Forza games, and I made the most of the 50% discount weekend a few weeks ago. Overall I'm really enjoying the game.
flyinpiranha
Member
But people who have played the game are complaining. In this thread, and other places.
Do you honestly think T10 would have made all the changes and discounts if it was just from some forum 'trolls' who hadn't played the game? The reason they made the changes was because of people who HAD played it, the fans. Their fans.
I'm glad some of the hardcore Forza fans find it acceptable, enjoy the game. Some of us don't and after fully supporting T10 for years, I am not purchasing their 5th installment. I may be back for the 6th. I want to be. And honestly some part of this has to do with MS and the XB1 itself. There a few factors but T10 could have EASILY pushed me into the MS camp. I go where the games are. It's why I usually own everything. But right now, T10 hasn't convinced me that I need an XB1.
PedroLumpy
Member
I don't get you man. You yourself say the microtransactions are bad. And then in the next post you're annoyed with all of us for saying microtransactions are bad. Like we're all agreeing, but you're furious with us all for some reason.
If they didn't have Forza rewards or the discounts, would you still feel the same way?