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[FunnyBunny]

enough to be 100% sure and 100% correct in EVERYTHING I wrote about how this game works.

If you're going to make an impassioned defense of the game and how it works, please don't hide behind non answers such as this.

I'm legitimately interested in how long it takes to unlock those cars. I adore Forza 4 and loved the fact I owned some great exotics after 3 or 4 hours of play.

So again, and I ask respectfully and with genuine interest, how long did it take you to buy those cars?

 

[ElementJJ]

enough to be 100% sure and 100% correct in EVERYTHING I wrote about how this game works.

Why cant you sell cars and upgrades back to the game?

 

[p3tran]

So again, and I ask respectfully and with genuine interest, how long did it take you to buy those cars?

if you want to accumulate money fast to buy something, all you have to do is setup a free play race like I describe in previous page.
personally, using a car with full affinity, on a full grid/max difficulty, no assists, I get > 100.000/10min. from the race, plus whatever the game pays as you level up.
my only problem is that this kind of race I setup, I find TOO boring even for the money gained, because its too easy.
it took me a little more than 3 hours of racing for money, to go from zero funds to 2,4million, because I wanted to buy a bugatti veyron the other day.
..then T10 announced changes in the economy, so I did not buy it yet after all..

Why cant you sell cars and upgrades back to the game?

basically thats irrelevant, since on forza 4 a) the gifted cars where worth shit if sold and the other ones at a discount, and b) upgrade parts where basically heavily discounted or 100% free.


here is what needs care in forza 5, and this is the legit list, not the "troll-in-your-face" list. so read:

the car marketplace is missing, thats one thing, the storefronts of the tuners and painters are missing too, thats another thing, the disability to gift cars to another player is terrible because for example I cant tune the car that m0dus paints, and thus a painter cannot offer a properly tuned car and a tuner cannot offer a painted car that does not cause vomit, or even two painters cannot collaborate, and finally, some online racing options are missing too.

the way I view and understand things, all the above stuff is done because of things at SYSTEM level, not t10 level.

and they already went out officially and said that they will remain on top of forza 5 for quite some time.

now, you dont need to be a great magician to put two and two together... do you guys?

 

[FunnyBunny]

if you want to accumulate money to buy something, all you have to do is setup a free play race like I describe in previous page.
personally, using a car with full affinity, on a full grid/max difficulty, no assists, I get > 100.000/10min. from the race, plus whatever the game pays as you level up.
my only problem is that this kind of race I setup, I find TOO boring even for the money gained, because its too easy.
it took me a little more than 3 hours of racing for money, to go from zero funds to 2,4million, because I wanted to buy a bugatti veyron the other day.
..then T10 announced changes in the economy, so I did not buy it yet after all..

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[ElementJJ]

if you want to accumulate money to buy something, all you have to do is setup a free play race like I describe in previous page.
personally, using a car with full affinity, on a full grid/max difficulty, no assists, I get > 100.000/10min. from the race, plus whatever the game pays as you level up.
my only problem is that this kind of race I setup, I find TOO boring even for the money gained, because its too easy.
it took me a little more than 3 hours of racing for money, to go from zero funds to 2,4million, because I wanted to buy a bugatti veyron the other day.
..then T10 announced changes in the economy, so I did not buy it yet after all..

But you didnt need to do a boring grind like this in F2/3/4, you could play Rivals or Career mode to progress with a decent difficulty while keeping things interesting with a lot of different race types/restrictions.

Rivals was my main source of money in F4, 250K for a top 100/1000? spot?

 

[p3tran]

But you didnt need to do a boring grind like this in F2/3/4, you could play Rivals or Career mode to progress with a decent difficulty while keeping things interesting with a lot of different race types/restrictions.

Rivals was my main source of money in F4, 250K for a top 100/1000? spot?

first of all, in which dream exactly did forza 4 paid you 250k for a top 1000 spot? 10k, maybe.

and second, if you find quick and easy races that pay good boring like I do, you can always make your car that you use for this purpose to have less power/advantage over the competition, and fight for your money.

I see no problem there. none at all.

 

[ElementJJ]

first of all, in which dream exactly did forza 4 paid you 250k for a top 1000 spot? 10k, maybe.

and second, if you find quick and easy races that pay good boring like I do, you can always make your car that you use for this purpose to have less power/advantage over the competition, and fight for your money.

I see no problem there. none at all.

Definately was more than 10K, for 10K you just needed to beat a invalid time. The next up was 25k, 50k, 150k, then 250k. I played it a lot. The only reason where payout was less was if the number of people who had completed that trial was low.
If you were strategic you could get a cumulative payout by not putting in your best time, and by only just beating your rival.

Some one else who says same as me...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/997653-forza-motorsport-4/60683574?page=1

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1492815

 

[p3tran]

yeah, well, the third post there, it says (regarding forza 4) forza went from a fuckin'difficult economy (forza 3) to a freakin' easy one (forza 4)

which in part is correct (for racers). if you are a good enough racer to get a respectable top 50 or better, there is multiples of 50k to be won if you grind rivals from lower, and carefully. and the climax of maybe a couple of 250k where you reach your end game.

BUT, as you may understand, about 200-500 people out of the million have this ability.

so excuse me while I laugh at that comment I read on your link ("farming 150k races")
I mean, yes, I have done it, it is possible, but expecting the regular dude who wants some money to buy a ferrari, to grind top 50 spots at rivals..... lol it just doesnt work like this. never did, actually.

the big bucks -from my experience- was in tuning and painting. if you were good, you would swim in money. from forza 2!
and it made sense too, because you are making the game better for everybody.

 

[RukusProvider]

- free play since day 1 people have discovered a way to choose any car they want. it is a bug most probably, but its still there.

How do I do this? I don't have time to unlock or care about tuning, just lapping cars around tracks is all I care for.

 

[p3tran]

How do I do this? I don't have time to unlock or care about tuning, just lapping cars around tracks is all I care for.

here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY2qjnZ29Pw

 

[ElementJJ]

yeah, well, the third post there, it says (regarding forza 4) forza went from a fuckin'difficult economy (forza 3) to a freakin' easy one (forza 4)

which in part is correct (for racers). if you are a good enough racer to get a respectable top 50 or better, there is multiples of 50k to be won if you grind rivals from lower, and carefully. and the climax of maybe a couple of 250k where you reach your end game.

BUT, as you may understand, about 200-500 people out of the million have this ability.

so excuse me while I laugh at that comment I read on your link ("farming 150k races")
I mean, yes, I have done it, it is possible, but expecting the regular dude who wants some money to buy a ferrari, to grind top 50 spots at rivals..... lol it just doesnt work like this. never did, actually.

the big bucks -from my experience- was in tuning and painting. if you were good, you would swim in money.

But you cant even make big bucks from tuning and painting anymore...

I didnt farm carefully, i literally raced to the 150k and 250k spots. I spent hours albeit, sometimes 2-3 on one track, but i thought it was fun. Racing around an oval is not fun for me and i dont want to have to earn a decent amount of credits that way. I agree with you to some extent that F4 did make a little too easy, personally i thought free upgrades was not a great idea, you need some risk attached or it just becomes free play.

Anyway im not saying there is anything horrible about F5, im sure at the core it plays great, the sounds, the driving the physics is surely great.

Just for your regular dude argument, my flatmate played over 3hours to beat one of my rivals, and only 3 months earlier i taught him how to drive manual gearbox, so it can be done, just takes time, but i dont class that as grinding, we had a blast and it requires skill and concentration unlike the oval- that was for a 150k spot.

You cant say rivals wasnt great, and it should of been in 5.

 

[p3tran]

I can agree to that, of course if you compete for HOURS at the same track, round after round, yes, eventually you will hit the top200 or better.
but as you said, that's a challenge and a blast on its own, and for sure not a quick and dirty way to make money.
for those guys that this procedure indeed is a quick and easy job, they are not many more than the number i wrote above.

edit:
I missed this?!

You cant say rivals wasnt great, and it should of been in 5.

yes, I agree rivals is fucking fantastic! already wrote that.
but who told you that its out?

its still in, of course

 

[ElementJJ]

yes, I agree rivals is fucking fantastic! already wrote that.
but who told you that its out?

its still in, of course

Hold on, say that again? Rivals is in Forza 5?

 

[p3tran]

some posts above I wrote a list about things that need attention.
dont you think I would have mentioned that rivals are missing, if they where?


edit: I will answer here the q below, since laready editing

actually, this functionality is IMPROVED, because right inside your career race, a message pops up in your mirror WHILE you are racing, informing you whom did you just pass on your laptime in your friends list AND who is next rival, and exactly at the end of the race, the is a small leaderboard on the right bottom of the screen, and by pressing (X) it just starts again (without loading) your rivals section with the next opponent's ghost ready and loaded.

so yeah, I wouldnt say rivals are missing

payouts, I wouldnt know.. us "experienced" players are letting the leaderboards gather "rivals" for the time being, so we can farm them at season time ;p
only saladine one time made me push and got to top50 on one specific case, but that was a personal racing thing and not a farming thing. and I dont even remember the payout was. didnt matter at all

Spoiler

saladine, pick another track/class for us to race dude

and drivatars, yes, they are a big thing. an innovation I'd say. I understand that in lower levels drivatars act like ..bad players (thats the point), but on the top level they are really-really good, for not being real players.

 

[ElementJJ]

some posts above I wrote a list about things that need attention.
dont you think I would have mentioned that rivals are missing, if they where?

I actually didnt know that, i havent read anything about rivals mode up till release, all i heard was DRIVATAR an CLOUD.

So whats the payouts like now?

 

[Hurt and Scared]

So then I told them "We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration"

 

[transformer]

Hold on, say that again? Rivals is in Forza 5?

Of course it's in and it's better than ever with implementation within career mode. You can jump directly from a career race to challenge rivals on he track/class you just raced. Or, you can play it as a separate mode as before. Payouts are good as well.

The inaccurate comments here about this game are beyond comical and just ridiculous at this point. It's almost as if people, who don't own the game, are just making things up to complain about.

 

[ElementJJ]

Of course it's in and it's better than ever with implementation within career mode. You can jump directly from a career race to challenge rivals on he track/class you just raced. Or, you can play it as a separate mode as before. Payouts are good as well.

The inaccurate comments here about this game are beyond comical and just ridiculous at this point. It's almost as if people, who don't own the game, are just making things up to complain about.

Well this info is slowly changing my opinion on the game, I have played it for a brief amount of time, but nobody has really detailed the games features, and MS/T10 kept everything secret with their embargoes, so you cannot blame the consumer for misinformation.

 

[p3tran]

Well this info is slowly changing my opinion on the game, I have played it for a brief amount of time, but nobody has really detailed the games features, and MS/T10 kept everything secret with their embargoes, so you cannot blame the consumer for misinformation.

well, you know what? if the trolls would finally SHUT THE FUCK UP, many interesting discussions about forza could take place...

 

[DesertEagle]

Hmm? He said that they are cutting prices on cars by almost 50% and increasing rewards by almost 100%.

In the Eurogamer article? All I was mentioned was a drop in one cars price by 40%

 

[Dryk]

"We wanted to make the game an accurate simulation, so we made it so only rich people can have nice cars"

 

[flyinpiranha]

Great write-up p3tran but gifted cars was one of my favorite things. It sounds like the economy is decent but I have stated MANY MANY times it isn't JUST F5 that is this issue, it is the direction it is headed.

You are a hardcore fan and if the things you love are in you seem to be OK with everything else. How do you justify a racing sim without the ring? You know damn well they would have charged for it if it wasn't for the "trolls" making noise (and they still might). You know those changes to the economy? Because of the "trolls".

Sure, F5 may be "fine" but can't you see where this is headed? LeFerrari behind a paywall? That is one of the most exotic cars out there! But they did give it to people who bought the $50 pass I guess "for free".

NBA2k14 has an abomination of a pay2win system and even defenders of that still get the "STFU lern2play" attitude.

There are trolls, there are the people that are just drive-by posters, but not all. Some of us have legitimate complaints of a series we used to hold dear and can easily see where this is headed if nobody speaks up with their voices and their wallet.

 

[QaaQer]

Having DLC and MT isn't the problem, it's when the core design of your game is changed to make them seem more attractive that is the issue.

For me, using psychological manipulation and casino style exploitation in order to bilk vulnerable people and minors out of hundreds or thousands is the issue. It is repugnant. And any game that has $120 orr $180 cars for sale is repugnant.

I also hate that it wrecks gameplay, but that is just collateral damage.

 

[QaaQer]

well, you know what? if the trolls would finally SHUT THE FUCK UP, many interesting discussions about forza could take place...

pot kettle.

 

[p3tran]

Great write-up p3tran but gifted cars was one of my favorite things. It sounds like the economy is decent but I have stated MANY MANY times it isn't JUST F5 that is this issue, it is the direction it is headed.

You are a hardcore fan and if the things you love are in you seem to be OK with everything else. How do you justify a racing sim without the ring? You know damn well they would have charged for it if it wasn't for the "trolls" making noise (and they still might). You know those changes to the economy? Because of the "trolls".

Sure, F5 may be "fine" but can't you see where this is headed? LeFerrari behind a paywall? That is one of the most exotic cars out there! But they did give it to people who bought the $50 pass I guess "for free".

NBA2k14 has an abomination of a pay2win system and even defenders of that still get the "STFU lern2play" attitude.

There are trolls, there are the people that are just drive-by posters, but not all. Some of us have legitimate complaints of a series we used to hold dear and can easily see where this is headed if nobody speaks up with their voices and their wallet.

first of all,
let me be clear in this:

I have not been happy with the inaccurate version of the ring since a loooong time.
I am VERY HAPPY that t10 DID NOT pull a po......y and serve me the same track, but with balloons.

now, about the real issues! its not the trolls that raise them. its the players.
trolls are only ...trolling, focusing on the token thing when there are other things that are important, and this isnt. (read previous page on, I have spend enough time writing down things)

we have said many times, that getting a 50euro car pass on top of a 80euro game (or 60euro + 20euro vip if you prefer), and then on top of that a triple expansion pack that is not included, and this on a day 1 system that we spend 500euro for the xbone and 450euro for the new wheel, DOES INDEED LOOK GREEDY.
I am not saying that turn10 should not be paid for their effort (I think they brought out the best day 1 game ever), I am saying here that MICROSOFT SHOULD EAT THE FUCKING COST AND SAY "THANK YOU"

but that's not the in-game microtransactions for tokens. its the price increase (60% from f4) of the pass, plus the ...multiple passes.

we have said this many times, but it always gets lost in the sea of trolling.

that being said, I have already bought the vip, the car pass, the wheel, and will probably buy the expansion packs too, depending on what they are. BUT ZERO IN-GAME MICROTRANSACTIONS
so what I say is not in ..theory.

 

[flashmouth]

They can put in as much MTs, accelerators and whatnots as they want, as long as it's totally optional and doesn't effect progressing through career - which it did, at least for me.
I made 10-12k cr per win and it didn't matter which class I was racing in, there were even bonuses already included in that number (+50% from assists and drivatar difficulty).
So I would have needed to do somewhat between 500-600 races to be able to buy the Lotus F1 or other most expensive cars. The whole game features about 400 different races, the payouts really were ridiculously low.

That was the reason for me to sell the game and my One with it, which I did only buy for FM5. The racing was fun and to me the best experience on consoles today, but the game wasn't.

I get that they had to make changes on the credit system because the car count was so low compared to FM4, otherwise you would own everything far to quick, but there was no balance. I am really glad to read about the incoming changes, they will probably make me buy the game and console again. Input triggers, Drivatars, physics engine and car sounds are a nice package, and with the overhauled credits system actually playing will get rewarding and fun.

 

[Domino792]

Sad he got caught...

.

 

[p3tran]

They can put in as much MTs, accelerators and whatnots as they want, as long as it's totally optional and doesn't effect progressing through career - which it did, at least for me.
I made 10-12k cr per win and it didn't matter which class I was racing in, there were even bonuses already included in that number (+50% from assists and drivatar difficulty).
So I would have needed to do somewhat between 500-600 races to be able to buy the Lotus F1 or other most expensive cars. The whole game features about 400 different races, the payouts really were ridiculously low.

That was the reason for me to sell the game and my One with it, which I did only buy for FM5. The racing was fun and to me the best experience on consoles today, but the game wasn't.

I get that they had to make changes on the credit system because the car count was so low compared to FM4, otherwise you would own everything far to quick, but there was no balance. I am really glad to read about the incoming changes, they will probably make me buy the game and console again. Input triggers, Drivatars, physics engine and car sounds are a nice package, and with the overhauled credits system actually playing will get rewarding and fun.

dude, they did put everything at half price as a temp solution, until they sort the things out, so really there was not a chance you got stuck or something. also, you forget adding your level up cash bonuses on top of race earnings. you ramp up quick, and the prize is bigger than any race.

anyway, I can fully understand how impulse buy and impulse sell work, and as I have said since many days ago,
I find it really funny how on earth can some business suit make a STUPID decision and affect the trajectory of a game, from "best racing game ever" to "a total scam" on perception.

I really hope suits are watching and lessons are being learned here...

 

[dark_prinny]

Greed is

Spoiler

not

good.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Empathy is great. But how about making a few changes to the in-game economy? Increase the drivitar payouts and rewards across the board. Don't force players to log in every day to earn credits.

Let's compromise.

It's sad that the word compromise has to be used in the same sentence as videogame now

virtual world, anything goes
there shouldn't be any compromise, any inconvenience any shittyness is by design

 

[Nicktals]

Came for the p3tran hissy.

Am not disappointed.

I just don't get why they have to be there? why tell me 'they're like cheats'? I'm scared for the way the industry is headed (and frankly, I hadn't realized so many AAA games had been doing stuff like this, as I mostly game Nintendo, retro, and Indie...So maybe I'm just dismayed at what gaming actually is in the AAA space.) Just get rid of them, full stop. There's no reason for them to be there as a paid option in a full price retail game.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Making a shitty thing slightly less shitty doesn't solve the problem. It's still shitty, now you're just arguing over what degree of shitty is ok.

Money should be spent on something that improves the experience, not on a threat to make the experience worse.

 

[Quixzlizx]

He should just admit that he didn't want this in the first place, but it was shoved down his throat by some Microsoft suits, or not say anything at all.

That may have caused the PR drone sitting next to him to self-destruct, however.

 

[flashmouth]

dude, they did put everything at half price as a temp solution, until they sort the things out, so really there was not a chance you got stuck or something. also, you forget adding your level up cash bonuses on top of race earnings. you ramp up quick, and the prize is bigger than any race.

Yeah, I know, but as you said, it was only temporal. Unfortunately it was announced after I had sold my bundle. But even if I'd used the discount - I had some 1.2mio cr at that time - I would have been able to buy one or two cars from a higher class (S or R would have been the next class to tackle). Let's say I can do two series of races with 10 races each in a class R car, that would have net me 10x12k each + level up bonus, which were only 15.750cr for me as a non-vip. So let's say I make 150k per series in a mini career featuring class R and another 150k for the class races, with level up that's maybe 350-400k total in a car that cost 1.6mio regularly. With normal progression I would expect to be able to buy a car of a higher class then, but in reality I would still be way-off.

So for me and my style of playing, there were a lot of ways to get stuck in the career and some cars were far from achievable in a decent amount of time.

I don't even have a problem with grinding, but it has to be rewarding.

Rivals is a great mode, had a lot of fun with it, but the payouts were also really low even if hitting top 30 times.

So thinking about the changes, I am really pumped again to make a comeback.
Is there a date yet for the update?

 

[Xanadu]

I have played the game for ten days, I have a garage of 50+ cars, all the expensive ones I wanted included, I have more than 2,5 million in cash, am level 145,
and all this without spending a dime on microtransactions.

you can thank the "trolls" for that

 

[p3tran]

you can thank the "trolls" for that

no. instead, maybe you want to read what I have written, so you can learn some things right.

 

[Xanadu]

no. instead, maybe you want to read what I have written, so you can learn some things right.

it didnt effect your earnings at all?

 

[p3tran]

it didnt effect your earnings at all?

earnings where untouched if I remember correctly, only cars at half price.

but again,

its completely illogical to say that the trolls are the ones that caused this.

 

[Xanadu]

earnings where untouched if I remember correctly, only cars at half price.

but again,

its completely illogical to say that the trolls are the ones that caused this, and not all the legitimate players...

yes as i said before wink indicates a not so serious post but of course the shit storm made them notice, and of course the legit players on fm.net

 

[QaaQer]

earnings where untouched if I remember correctly, only cars at half price.

but again,

its completely illogical to say that the trolls are the ones that caused this, and not all the legitimate players...

hey spock,

could a 'legitmate' player also be a complainer (troll)? cuz I'm pretty sure there were/are shitstorms in FM5 communities.

 

[Xanadu]

hey spock,

could a 'legitmate' player also be a complainer (troll)? cuz I'm pretty sure there were/are shitstorms in FM5 communities.

he means the trolls as the ones who dont own forza 5 (me) but with detailed negative feedback from people who have played it such as teamvvv and eurogamer, i think we had enough proof of this bullshit

 

[bud]

first of all,
let me be clear in this:

I have not been happy with the inaccurate version of the ring since a loooong time.
I am VERY HAPPY that t10 DID NOT pull a po......y and serve me the same track, but with balloons.

which track are you talking about? i'm genuinely curious.

 

[p3tran]

hey spock,

could a 'legitmate' player also be a complainer (troll)? cuz I'm pretty sure there were/are shitstorms in FM5 communities.

troll is people like you, who called me "pot & kettle" a couple of hours ago, did not reply at all to you, and now you are calling me "spock".


trolls are the ones who because they only care to troll, never cared to learn how this game actually works, and decided to make it the flagship of their whatever-"protest" for their whatever-"reasons".

as I said, this trolling is a bad service to forza players, because we want some things improved and you are causing ground level irrelevant noise.

complains in forza communities is a whole lot of different thing than the out-of-this-world post that made me read and participate in this thread. here, have a look: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=93642001&postcount=474
I dont know how this guy is not banned yet, I have seen tens or hundreds of posters getting banned for talking less than this about other developers, let alone studio heads,

but
exactly because I am not retarded -like that dude writes-, I got sick of reading retarded and stupid things about forza.
some of you people, you are ruining my gaf. and thats not cool.

which track are you talking about? i'm genuinely curious.

its a reference to forza5, since balloons, birds, choppers, all sorts of shit now exist in every track.
I would be VERY pissed if I still got the same inaccurate ring on forza 5, ported to the new machine, but "beautified" with these shit.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

wouldn't a good and fair design be (that's how I know these progression kind of racing games) that there's a way through the maze of racing series that let's you progress through the whole game without any grind if you're a slitghtly above average player (like... top 25% of players maybe)?
What I mean is:
get one slow car for free, increase the difficulty (fewer rewinds or fewer assists or harder competetive drivers, choose to drive against cars that are better than yours)... win and you get enough to buy a new car that sets you somewhere in the middle perfomance field of the next(if chosen in optimal order) racing series, tune car a little and win the series which again lets you enter the next series... and so on and so on, until you won every race in the game.

I'm only level 50+ and I used the rewards system (which gave me 3.000.000 CR) and I get about 10.000CR every day from my Drivatar racing games from my friends list... BUT there is NO progression line through this game because more expensive cars (and according racing series) don't really get you higher winnings (only because you drive more miles per minute in a faster car) and because of that a guy like me (I'm usually somewhere in the top 30-20%, but at times also top 3-5%) would have to play everything 4 times (I haven't calculated this, it's my feeling telling how things would go on from where I am) to ever finish every racing series.
For me it's like they designed a game with 8 levels where to get from level 6 to 7 you have to play the whole game again a second time and to get from level 7 to 8 you have to play the whole game again three more times.
Of course, if you're an excellent driver and have a good setup (racing chair, wheel etc.), maybe you can manage without that... but to be an above average player should mean that you can progress through a game linearly without extra-grinding. It's my opinion. I know it's still flawed, because had they put all the higher tier racing behind a DLC-wall, I could have finished the game without grind, but I still would have felt cheated, because... don't we all want to drive high-end stuff in racing series and get rewards? We paid for the game, why can't we be just the hero of our story, why do we have to be better drivers than everyone else? Should I buy a different game for that? Is Forza only for hardcore racers or people with way more money than time?

 

[Cellbomber]

Game must be pretty dire and it seems they shattered any playerbase they ever had. Only one person in here defending it. Glad I clicked the thread for the read. Definately more enjoyable than the instructions I read above on how to grind out credits on easy mode over and over.

 

[transformer]

Game must be pretty dire and it seems they shattered any playerbase they ever had. Only one person in here defending it. Glad I clicked the thread for the read. Definately more enjoyable than the instructions I read above on how to grind out credits on easy mode over and over.

Quite the opposite. The game is fantastic and not a grind at all. The comments and criticisms here are mostly fabricated and made by individuals who haven't played the game.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Game must be pretty dire and it seems they shattered any playerbase they ever had. Only one person in here defending it. Glad I clicked the thread for the read. Definately more enjoyable than the instructions I read above on how to grind out credits on easy mode over and over.

Indeed, when a player is making decisions based on 'what will get me the most XP/credits' rather than what's fun, shit is fucked up.

 

[p3tran]

wouldn't a good and fair design be (that's how I know these progression kind of racing games) that there's a way through the maze of racing series that let's you progress through the whole game without any grind if you're a slitghtly above average player (like... top 25% of players maybe)?
What I mean is:
get one slow car for free, increase the difficulty (fewer rewinds or fewer assists or harder competetive drivers, choose to drive against cars that are better than yours)... win and you get enough to buy a new car that sets you somewhere in the middle perfomance field of the next(if chosen in optimal order) racing series, tune car a little and win the series which again lets you enter the next series... and so on and so on, until you won every race in the game.

I'm only level 50+ and I used the rewards system (which gave me 3.000.000 CR) and I get about 10.000CR every day from my Drivatar racing games from my friends list... BUT there is NO progression line through this game because more expensive cars (and according racing series) don't really get you higher winnings (only because you drive more miles per minute in a faster car) and because of that a guy like me (I'm usually somewhere in the top 30-20%, but at times also top 3-5%) would have to play everything 4 times (I haven't calculated this, it's my feeling telling how things would go on from where I am) to ever finish every racing series.
For me it's like they designed a game with 8 levels where to get from level 6 to 7 you have to play the whole game again a second time and to get from level 7 to 8 you have to play the whole game again three more times.
Of course, if you're an excellent driver and have a good setup (racing chair, wheel etc.), maybe you can manage without that... but to be an above average player should mean that you can progress through a game linearly without extra-grinding. It's my opinion. I know it's still flawed, because had they put all the higher tier racing behind a DLC-wall, I could have finished the game without grind, but I still would have felt cheated, because... don't we all want to drive high-end stuff in racing series and get rewards? We paid for the game, why can't we be just the hero of our story, why do we have to be better drivers than everyone else? Should I buy a different game for that? Is Forza only for hardcore racers or people with way more money than time?

I am not forza's designer, not even a game designer, but I can tell you that making something so that it can fit like a glove to many different hands, is not an easy task.
if the top25% get bonus, then thats unfair for the 75% in that logic. right?

I have said, both in forza topics in gaf and in other, more related to turn10 places that they will have to take another look at how the system works and not works.
the reply I got is basically "its only natural that this will happen".
yesterday or the day before that, there were also official announcements about changes etc. and more stuff in the future.

forza is not only for hardcore. and if you go at t10 forums, the peple who write there -not during launch times like now, but those who stay there for the season- they are hardcore players and keep bitching about their wants for forza to become more hardcore.

but, if you see the changes that t10 did, they seem to aim to facilitate the non-core players. stuff ranging from a completely playable and enjoyable simrace game with the pad, to the latest automations that you get shown automatically liveries and presented with automatic tuning options, they all point to that.
heck, even the very begining of the game is aimed entirely at new people.
I mean, I wanted my very first race in forza 5 to be a glorious full-sim race, and instead I got this full-auto full-aid lap to do, then five more races without even giving me the chance to map my usual controls, or tune my fuckin' car ffs.

as i said, i know its hard to cater to multiple audiences at the same time, but I think t10 is one of the businesses doing the most amazing job on this.

STILL, things needs to be "balanced", just please not let us waste our time reading that dan greenwalt is the devils son because he let them token buttons appear on every transaction....

 

[Nicktals]

Hey p3tran, why are they there at all? Why not just support the 'trolls', or as I assume they'd prefer to addressed, 'the people who think this shit, no matter how it's implemented, shouldn't be in a retail game'? At worst it leads to MT being taken out...and that wouldn't be so bad, would it?

 

[Cabal]

If they really intended to not make a pseudo f2p title, they might be the most naive developer/ company ever. People are mad because it is a cash grab. It doesn't just look like a rip off, it is one.

If they wanted to make the sim guys happy, make a sim mode with all the cars unlocked or something to that extent. You don't sell cars and unlocks for hundreds of dollars then make those same unlocks incredibly tedious to get unless you want money. If their goal wasn't a free to play/micro transaction racer packaged in a 60 dollar flagship title then they failed spectacularly.