Well it does get tiring seeing outrage about something every single day, I can't say I blame him.
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Greenawalt: "Disappointed in myself" from fan reaction; want to win fans back [Forza]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Well it does get tiring seeing outrage about something every single day, I can't say I blame him.
Can someone please just tell me why even the racecar games are MMOs now? Why do I have to grind XP to make a car go vroom. I presumably paid $60 for the racecar game specifically to distract myself from the lingering feelings of self-flagellation not to watch a bar slowly fail to progress.
dark_chris
Member
Its stupid and completely and utterly ridiculous to make a racing game having grind shit like that. Its not cool.
Make challenges and shit, but nope, they flaunt their greed by putting paying cars.
Screw them and the other games that do this.
Make challenges and shit, but nope, they flaunt their greed by putting paying cars.
Screw them and the other games that do this.
DesertEagle
Neo Member
Empathy is great. But how about making a few changes to the in-game economy? Increase the drivitar payouts and rewards across the board. Don't force players to log in every day to earn credits.
Let's compromise.
Let's compromise.
ElectricBanquet
Member
If I had spent a lot of time and energy convincing myself that the MT system in Forza 5 is actually a good thing for gamers I'd probably have trouble understanding why other people don't see it the same way that I do as well.
flyinpiranha
Member
"First they came ... " and all that.
It's not until people are directly affected that we will start seeing uproar. It's also not until we see more exposure, more underhanded tactics revealed, and somebody with a modicum of press awareness (although this is starting to happen) get the word outside of "whiny forum goers".
We were warned, and we knew some form of MT was coming. I can accept that, other revenue streams are fine. It's when the core functionality of the game is changed to compensate for this that I wasn't expecting (shame on me). I was expecting it like many other games, extra DLC, Season Passes, cosmetic stuff ... but this is straight up F2P methodology being applied here.
There is a balance to always be found. The biggest issue is that with most things price/value are at FACE value. You know you will only spend $15 on a movie, or $20 on a dinner ... with games you take a gamble because now we don't even know what they are removing or adding. Media outlets aren't telling us shit. I NEVER realized the extent of the VC/online bullshit in NBA2k14 until AFTER I purchased it. With Forza I waited (luckily enough because of the MS 180 DRM debacle) and I can see waiting is going to be the only way to fully research at this point.
Well, in the two big sim racers (and arcade racers to a point) you have a progression. I had no problem with the progression and "grinding" (read; driving) in the games. For the most part you always had Arcade or Free Drive modes to try out most any car in the game, but I think having to "unlock" cars in the Career mode is fine. Nobody starts as an F1 racer. You slowly get sponsorships, etc ... I mean, progression is in every game (even Mario Kart had the higher classes locked until you beat the previous cups). So I don't think the actual game style is the problem. It's the fact that they CHANGED the game style in order to push microtransations that is the problem.
Having DLC and MT isn't the problem, it's when the core design of your game is changed to make them seem more attractive that is the issue.
Raven77
Member
I fully expect to see games specifically advertising "micro-transaction free" by next fall. The companies that get burned will reap what they sow, and other companies sitting on the sidelines will jump on the chance to show potential customers that they are not partaking in these practices.
IVIEDICATED
Banned
Bu bu but he said "its not about the money" well why design the game around people "with disposable income"?
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Hopefully they've learned a thing or two from this...
....probably not though...
Either way, I'm still skipping this one.
....probably not though...
Either way, I'm still skipping this one.
turnbuckle
Member
It gets tiring seeing developers do this shit every day. It gets tiring hearing people say they're ok with what's going on. It gets tiring hearing people say this is what's going to happen, saying anything is pointless.
A lot of stuff gets tiring. Telling people to not care about this is the worst. I'm not telling him or you or anyone in particular that you need to care, so why should people need to tell people specifically that they shouldn't?
Hmm? He said that they are cutting prices on cars by almost 50% and increasing rewards by almost 100%.
nssdigitalchumps
Member
Kind of like an early 80s arcade mentality -- make the game so incredibly difficult that you'll keep paying to play it.
Except this time you pay to move forward instead of earning it the old fashion way.
Regardless of perception, it's a bad trait for developers to adopt. People will turn on them, make no mistake.
Except this time you pay to move forward instead of earning it the old fashion way.
Regardless of perception, it's a bad trait for developers to adopt. People will turn on them, make no mistake.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Note how he says "himself", as if it was his idea...
IISANDERII
Member
I think Dan Greenwalt has sat in too many Microsoft meetings.
#brainwashed
#brainwashed
IISANDERII
Member
For many people, that's not nearly enough because even if all this microbullshit is eliminated, how long until it's unleashed again next time?
Any future game designs which are honest will be accompanied by skepticism that this is just bait to lure in more gamers so that they will have a greater number of people to fleece in the future.
Trust isn't such an easy thing to rebuild.
Well the PS3 Lost me as a customer for almost the entire Generation because of their inability to not try and screw the consumer. They won me back with the PS4. Now Xbone has lost me for this Gen so far and with antics like this, Apologies or not, MS may never get me back.
I was such a Fan of Forza last Gen. Too bad they did not see the issues coming.
I was such a Fan of Forza last Gen. Too bad they did not see the issues coming.
HueyFreeman
Banned
It must be frustrating. His whole spiel about how nothing came down from on high just seems outright dishonest given the similarities with the general XBO launch line up, but I'm sure there's no way he can talk about things like that.
I can't imagine the team wasn't able to look at this situation and entirely anticipate this response, or that that was their desired effect - Forza's a hardcore audience paying for a dedicated console then full price for a dedicated game, why the fuck would you want F2P mechanics in there, regardless of whether or not "that's the way the worlds going?"
I appreciate he's trying to make right, but he's just obviously torn in two directions here, and I don't think he's negotiating it very well in this interview.
I can't imagine the team wasn't able to look at this situation and entirely anticipate this response, or that that was their desired effect - Forza's a hardcore audience paying for a dedicated console then full price for a dedicated game, why the fuck would you want F2P mechanics in there, regardless of whether or not "that's the way the worlds going?"
I appreciate he's trying to make right, but he's just obviously torn in two directions here, and I don't think he's negotiating it very well in this interview.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I've heard stories from more than a few devs of having to say things such as this as per contract or the like. It's a very tasteless situation.
joecanada
Member
Great points.. I didn't mind battlefield 3 if people wanted to unlock stuff I could earn in a couple of hours by buying it, go ahead.. but if you expand the grind to 100 hours, 200 hours, then stfu, it's obvious you are catering to a pay crowd
That's why I cheated in gta online, the grind was a joke.
That's the problem with the MT's. They don't make the MT's around the game, but make the game around the MT's.
Look at Valve with Dota 2, F2P game and the MT's are only for cosmetics and compendium tickets.
I think you need to express yourself better.
trolling is one thing, what you are doing here is another!!
---------------------
I CALL OUT ALL OF YOU FOR TROLLING FORZA, MANY/MOST WITHOUT EVEN HAVING THE SYSTEM OR GAME!
I have played the game for ten days, I have a garage of 50+ cars, all the expensive ones I wanted included, I have more than 2,5 million in cash, am level 145,
and all this without spending a dime on microtransactions.
I understand many people have the need to troll hard on forza, but there are some borders for that too.
below are 10 pics from my garage, with only some of the expensive cars i have already gotten.
and by the way, the lotus f1, the most expensive car the one that caused the riots, i already got TWO times. until t10 decided to gift one, I had already gathered the credits needed and had bought myself one.
so
enjoy the pics, and from now on please find another game to collectively TROLL
Pstran you dont get it, its the fact they put them in at all thats the problem. First step.
Agree, I know I wont buy them.
Agree, I know I wont buy them.
answer me the below three questions
-do you have forza 5?
-do you have forza 4?
-how many cars were gifted to you in forza 4 that you NEVER cared to drive with?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Honestly I wouldn't pay attention to what Dan Greenawalt says. He's a PR joke. So many interviews where he has embarrassed himself. He's getting better though......slowly.
better than your favorite game designer, for sure!
there IS a point, which after we pass, trolling DOES become annoying.
Say what now?
When did this happen?
Buy PS3, buy games, insert games in console, play.
I had both a 360 and a PS3 from day one, I don't remember Sony doing anything outrageous.
This.. Entire thread will probably ream him, but this shit likely comes from higher up. And his ridiculous explanation reads like a guy that wants to say "Yeah that shit sucks and I knew you all wouldn't like it" but he likely cannot say that if he wants a job tomorrow.
GUYS!!
other than the game looking CHEAP by bringing up an option to pay in tokens in every transaction,
the whole microtransaction scheme DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH GAME PROGRESSION!!!
my stats and my pics above are the proof, even for the fuckin' blind amongst us!
Can EVERYBODY understand this so nobody spends time on stupid and false things?
other than the game looking CHEAP by bringing up an option to pay in tokens in every transaction,
the whole microtransaction scheme DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH GAME PROGRESSION!!!
my stats and my pics above are the proof, even for the fuckin' blind amongst us!
Can EVERYBODY understand this so nobody spends time on stupid and false things?
Exquisite. So they are concerned about people who don't have enough time to grind the car they want, but they are even more concerned about getting money from those guys. Instead of, you know, allowing people to get them for free*
I don't know why putting a barrier is a good thing. Also, didn't he say a couple of paragraphs above that there wasn't a paywall here? So, is there or isn't there a paywall/barrier?
*free as in "$60"
eso76
Member
Might be pr but I feel sorry for the guy.
I really like him when he doesn't go full pr mode, he likes what he does and is passionate about his job.
Industry needs more greenawalts and less people forcing devs to meet deadlines.
I still think T10 could have managed their time and resources in a more efficient way, but they probably learned a lesson and will be less arrogant with fm6 launch, like they were for fm4.
I really like him when he doesn't go full pr mode, he likes what he does and is passionate about his job.
Industry needs more greenawalts and less people forcing devs to meet deadlines.
I still think T10 could have managed their time and resources in a more efficient way, but they probably learned a lesson and will be less arrogant with fm6 launch, like they were for fm4.
Yes i have owned all forza's and as for gifting cars it was not about being gifted them i used to gift cars to people on my friends list who couldnt afford a certain car or wanted a certain car just because a feature or someone else play style does not matter to you does not mean our views are in the low minority
You're completely missing the point.
QuicheFontaine
Member
GUYS!!
Game progression isn't the only thing to consider. The inclusion of microtransactions certainly appears to have affected game design. IMO Seanspeed said it best:
Haunted
Member
This is absolutely a possibility. Still, as long as we don't have anyone (anonymous source, investigative journalists) to pinpoint those truly responsible, someone will have to take the blame for these unbelievable missteps.
Greenwalt is the guy at the helm, so he takes the flak. Part of the job description.
transformer
Member
At least he can drive them at 60 fps in 1080p, with very good mechanical damage modeling, and AI that actually races and doesn't have weird catchup logic and abides by the same physics as the user. Oh, and it sounds like a car as well. I'm sure everyone has their preferences and this is just my opinion, but I'll take the aforementioned aspects that are done very well in Forza 5 over poorly implemented night racing and changing weather.
transformer
Member
I haven't seen sales figures, but last time I checked there were over 500k times posted on a leader board in the game.
qa_engineer
Member
Buscemi doesn't look like a crazy hobo in that gif.
Who the hell are you kidding here?
Here is your (and your employee's) thought process: You wanted to sell a 60 dollar game with micro transactions, you wanted to both nickel and dime and you wanted the more standard 60 bones for your game.
If he was really disappointed, he would remove every item in the store, tuned the game back to F4 and F3 levels and left it alone.
"Misread our intentions" Actions speak far louder than words. You intentions are crystal clear. (And yes so are Polyphony Digital's, if anyone even wants to entertain that this is somehow only a attack on Microsoft or Xbox One or whatever)
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Between 185k and 200k in NPD.
I really love racing with seanspeed, and he knows his forza well
BUT
- about car unlocks as you level up, I said above, no gifted cars (most of us did not really use the giftd cars anyway), but money instead.
i am level 145, I get about 30-40k each time I level up.
- manufacturer affinity IS NOT GONE. instead of discounts to parts, it gives an extra percentage multiplier on EVERY race winnings, up to 25% extra of total.
- free play since day 1 people have discovered a way to choose any car they want. it is a bug most probably, but its still there.
THE BIG POSITIVE CHANGE HERE, IS THAT NOW IN FREE PLAY YOU GET TO MAKE A RACE EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT IT (TRACK/LAPS/NO. OF OPPONENTS/DIFFICULTY)
AND THE GAME PAYS YOU FOR IT. BEFORE IT PAYED NOTHING ON FREE PLAY. so, if you want to make money, just go free play, put the indy round course with a fucking fast car, huge laps, full difficulty, full roster, and gain as much as 500k/hour. do you guys read this? I would really HATE to write this again...
ALSO, ANOTHER GREAT NEW THING WITH FREE PLAY, IS THAT YOU CAN PICK UP YOUR STOCK, OEM CAR, WITHOUT A SINGLE UPGRADE, AND THE GAME WILL MATCH WHATEVER CARS ARE EQUAL OR CLOSE TO IT.
SO NO MORE NEED TO GET A BRAND NEW CAR,. AND GO TO UPGRADE IT TO THE TOP OF THE LEVEL SO IT CAN BE COMPETITIVE.
OEM CARS ARE MUCH BETTER DRIVEN AND EXPERIENCED THIS WAY. AND ABLE TO WIN WITH STOCK AND GET PAID TOO.
- Wrong again here. there is selling of all these things, only this time it is done under an automated system that they already stated since the first fucking week that they are watching it real close and getting ready to make all enhancements necessary
- and the last point Sean makes, the one about ALWAYS been presented with the choice to use game currency or real money, I already said that OTHER THAN MAKING THE GAME LOOK CHEAP, IT DOES NOTHING TO THE GAME ITSELF!
a lot of you guys really prefer to just be up at arms, instead of learning what the fuck you are at arms about, and if it is worthy or not.
I trully believe that there are many of you guys, that just got carried away by the trolls.
I hate MT's too, but forza is not the game to make an example out of.
forza DOES needs some things to be improved. mainly they have to do with online implementation of stuff, so my guess is that at system level thingschanged and they had to change accordingly.
PLEASE DO US FORZA 5 PLAYERS A FAVOR, AND STOP MAKING GROUND LEVEL NOISE ON IRRELEVANT THINGS, SO TURN10 WILL FOCUS ON WHATS RELEVANT FOR US, THE PLAYERS.
Nathan_Drake
Member
p3tran...
good god damn.
good god damn.
FunnyBunny
Member
p3tran...
Out of curiosity, how many hours have you played during the past 10 days?
Out of curiosity, how many hours have you played during the past 10 days?
enough to be 100% sure and 100% correct in EVERYTHING I wrote about how this game works.
Caayn
Member
Bravo p3tran, nice post.