TheHollowNight
Member
On a side note, Dan Greenawalt's beard is magnificent in person. I'm sure Turn 10 will do the right thang.
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Greenawalt: "Disappointed in myself" from fan reaction; want to win fans back [Forza]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Another way to look at this:
Over the years Forza has seen 5 releases, each offering an experience slightly honed and improved over the last. Over time, fans of this series have invested $50, $60, $60, $60 and $60 to enjoy these games, totaling over $250 (omitting recommended steering wheel accessories that never transfer to new consoles and the cost of consoles themselves). While better than ever, the fact remains that racing realistic cars around realistic tracks perhaps isn't as novel and exciting as it once was for some players, especially since the previous games they purchased are still sitting there, ready to be played if desired. And so the sales for the series seem to have remained relatively flat.
To tie this entire thing back into cars, T10 can go two ways. They can try to continue to innovate and deliver exceptional games at exceptional values, fostering a rabid and excited fanbase. Or they can go the way of GM and find new ways to nickel and dime their customers as they piss them off more and more. Didn't turn out so well for GM once the accountants were running the show, did it?
So he's claiming we misread their intentions, huh? I don't think so. I think we've caught them with their pants down ... standing knee-deep in a puddle of greed.
This kind of dishonesty makes me like their shit even less.
Dan, you can win me back if you completely throw out all that microtransaction crap. Until then, I'll stay clear of the Forza franchise.
This kind of dishonesty makes me like their shit even less.
Dan, you can win me back if you completely throw out all that microtransaction crap. Until then, I'll stay clear of the Forza franchise.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Why does money even have to come into the picture?
1. Play the campaign legitimately, earning cars as you go. Don't make unlocking all the cars a massive grind. (I like carrot on a stick stuff, so give me something else to strive for, like unlocking a variety of cosmetic car items.)
2. For people who can't wait, enable a cheat code to unlock all the cars; but this disables earning achievements and trophies. Why should you be rewarded for taking a shortcut? The people who don't care about playing the campaign aren't going to care about earning campaign achievements anyway.
You can have your cake and eat it too, but don't expect to get credit for baking it as well, when you "bought it" with cheat codes.
1. Play the campaign legitimately, earning cars as you go. Don't make unlocking all the cars a massive grind. (I like carrot on a stick stuff, so give me something else to strive for, like unlocking a variety of cosmetic car items.)
2. For people who can't wait, enable a cheat code to unlock all the cars; but this disables earning achievements and trophies. Why should you be rewarded for taking a shortcut? The people who don't care about playing the campaign aren't going to care about earning campaign achievements anyway.
You can have your cake and eat it too, but don't expect to get credit for baking it as well, when you "bought it" with cheat codes.
TheContact
Member
What an INCREDIBLY lame* statement
*replace lame with something more vulgar
where? i play forza 5 all the time and i havn't seena patch yet???
back ground downloading maybe?
Mechanized
Member
Then maybe... I don't know... remove the grind?
flamingotripod
Member
No games use cheat codes anymore except GTA 5 I think
Nymphae
Banned
So we need MT's to save us from ourselves? That's bullshit, there are codes in plenty of games and I am never tempted to use them. And who cares if everyone uses cheats to unlock cars in their single player game?
demosthenes
Member
Lol. Accountants don't make decisions to N&D people.
Probably that initial download. It wasn't really a normal patch though, it was a "we released an incomplete game to meet deadlines, so here is the rest of it!"
Seriously, what ever happened to cheat codes. Don't tell me it's some how different or better than free to play when both are most often about saving time.
Why is this thread still going?
They're making major changes this coming week and there are still people posting in here that seem to have missed the other thread. The changes show that Dan does not want to force MTs (even though they NEVER were in the first place in my experience), and that Dan and T10 are willing to make major changes for some fans.
Go figure, this thread only got to 3 pages.
They're practically removing the work I expect in a sim racer from the sounds of it. It should make those that are upset happy. I suspect some of those "upset/angry" people never intended to play the game in the first place.
I didn't want them to remove the "grind" in career by throwing out money. Wish changing free-play was all they had done.
They're making major changes this coming week and there are still people posting in here that seem to have missed the other thread. The changes show that Dan does not want to force MTs (even though they NEVER were in the first place in my experience), and that Dan and T10 are willing to make major changes for some fans.
Go figure, this thread only got to 3 pages.
They're practically removing the work I expect in a sim racer from the sounds of it. It should make those that are upset happy. I suspect some of those "upset/angry" people never intended to play the game in the first place.
I didn't want them to remove the "grind" in career by throwing out money. Wish changing free-play was all they had done.
AdventureRacing
Member
Reading his thought process behind these practices actually makes me dislike them even more not less. Also MS have this really weird way of apologizing for things where they almost passive aggressively blame the consumer for not understanding what they were doing. The only people who read this PR will see right through that bullshit and it will just end up hurting them more, they'd be better off saying nothing than this type of thing.
flyinpiranha
Member
Why do you keep asking this? They got caught with their hand in our wallets and are now backpedaling. It's clear as fucking day. I applaud them saving face and backpedaling before it started getting more traction in the media. Good on them.
Basically:
Gutted basic expectations from previous games (reward cars, free drive, store front, lack of car choice in arcade/online)
Added MT to make it easier to access the above
Fans called them out on bullshit
They had to backpedal their greedy tactics
Now you want us to just forget? Sorry, I can't do that. Just like NBA2k14, if they handed out a bunch of their Virtual Currency for "free" for the people "having issues" it wouldn't change the fact that they did it. There is no fucking way they didn't know EXACTLY what they were doing.
"Oh shit, we were caught, maybe we were a little too greedy? Give them some shit, quick! Before it hits Kotaku!"
Out of everything, reward cars pisses me off, same with arcade having cars locked. And the LeFerrari being locked behind a paywall. Do I own F5? No, I owned every other Forza game though and played and loved them, have a pretty (now worthless) wheel setup for them specifically.
Fuck this practice.
walltowall
Member
Do you own an Xbox one?
I'm sure he likes having a job to go to everyday.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The only thing worse than someone trying to fleece you is someone lying to your face about it while he's doing it.
Liar
Liar
flyinpiranha
Member
No, I was waiting to see the dust settle. Not supporting my $600 wheel, MT in the one game pushing me to purchase it, and wanting to see where they go with online DRM after the "180" has kept me from going over.
Are you genuinely asking or is this a "you wouldn't have bought it anyway" question? I have purchased all the Forza games and wheel setups for them, season passes and DLC as well as the CE of some editions. I'm a fan. I'm a disgruntled fan.
Extra cars not on the disk. It's like the second disk for F4
Facism
Member
should it matter if he owns one or not? The ability to take all the information available and form a theory or idea should be enough. I don't own one but i'm still interested in how these situations play out in the face of precedent and their effects on future efforts when it comes to the xbox format.
LeeRoyBrown
Banned
It's not about money.
.....
Ok fine we took cheat codes and now you have to pay for them.
.....
Ok fine we took cheat codes and now you have to pay for them.
ExFalsoQuodlibet
Member
"That felt like it was not making the car exclusive enough for those who are willing to pay"
LOL
Either stupid or dishonest: is it "exclusive enough" to buy a game for 60 dollars up front?
LOL
Either stupid or dishonest: is it "exclusive enough" to buy a game for 60 dollars up front?
Caayn
Member
Then why did you do the following:
- Remove rewards for leveling up (gift cars)
- Remove the ability to gift cars
- Remove the ability to play with every car in free-play
- Increase the price of Micro-transactions by a ridiculously huge amount.
I don't really have a problem with the ingame economy, just the above which are weird decisions that should never have been made if he truly meant what he said.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
uncledonnie
Banned
I'm assuming that's a rhetorical question. Amazing that the Forza OT is not filled with a similar bunch of bitter, outraged gamers.
synchronicity
Member
Absolutely. Just so much bull shit.
synchronicity
Member
Absolutely. Just so much bull shit.
Do they really think people are this stupid? I guess they must.
Edit: Sorry DP.
GenericUser
Member
Can someone who lives near greenwalt visit him and give him a good hard kick to the nuts? Even when he tries to apologize, he still manages to insult gamers on the highest level.
Funny thing about all this microtransaction nonsense. We were already warned over a year ago.
Look Mr Greenawalt, if you wanna tell us how hard it is for developers lately, how you have to find new ways to make money in order to stay in business, go right ahead.
People will call you out on your bullshit, because that's what it is, but it'll be a hell of a lot better than blatantly lying as you did right there.
Shit like "time savers", in-game currency or XP boosters have no purpose other than taking advantage of rich and/or stupid people.
If the whole idea was to save people's time, you would've just put in cheat codes.
Disgusted. The next Forza game will have to be a fucking masterpiece for me to even consider looking at it.
keltickennedy
Member
Exactly. For those "disposable income" players, why not just release a version of the game or dlc that would have all the cars unlocked for an additional cost? The main game should keep a reasonable unlock system for all the cars as well. Fuck off if those other players don't feel like their bought cars are "premium" enough.
immortal-joe
Member
This is the same shit I heard about the DRM policy, we "misinterpreted" the message, "misunderstood" their purpose.
GO. FUCK. YOURSELF.
GO. FUCK. YOURSELF.
IISANDERII
Member
...and we wanted access to that.
Also funny how they implement all these things for only "a small group of players" but "it's not about making more money".
turnbuckle
Member
Exactly. If someone kicks you in the nuts then apologizes for it...well, they still kicked you in the nuts.
They knew exactly what they were doing. To have any sympathy at all for these devs and publishers looking to extract as much money at the expense of game design is ridiculous. It's insulting.
This sentimental apology after-the-fact is offensive. No apology is ever needed; they just have to knock this shit off full-stop and quit making bullshit excuses. They think we're idiots. Some are more forgiving than others, some are more addicted than others, but there has to be enough people who can see through this crap to cause developers to cut this shit out.
Nuke MTs from the games completely. Add on content, DLC, that stuff can at least be justified (some is terrible, some is great). But putting a price on gamer's time? It needs to go, it absolutely needs to go.
I was thinking the same as I was reading the OP.
"You guys didn't understand our goals" "Gamers didn't understand our awesome DRM" Blah blah blah
Waldo Lydecker
Member
This guy just keeps insulting us...
I wouldn't ever buy a Forza game, even if it's a masterpiece, because I know the creator is such an unsympathetic douchebag. Just like I can't listen to Wagner.
I wouldn't ever buy a Forza game, even if it's a masterpiece, because I know the creator is such an unsympathetic douchebag. Just like I can't listen to Wagner.
Its PR. Don't take it so seriously.
Imagine if Nintendo hid those gold "do the level for you" tanooki suits in Super Mario 3D World behind a microtransaction or allowed users to pay money for those green stars that unlock levels instead of having to seek them out.
It seems wrong doesn't it? That's because it is. It changes the way the game is designed. It changes the experience. It changes everything!
It seems wrong doesn't it? That's because it is. It changes the way the game is designed. It changes the experience. It changes everything!
turnbuckle
Member
No offense, but you've defended a lot of the shittier things going on so far in this new gen. Forza and BF4 specifically. You throw a few bones at the people upset, appear somewhat understanding, but in general you spend a lot of energy telling people that find what's going on as offensive to relax, quit complaining, accept that this is where things are going, etc.
