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Guild Wars 2 Press Beta [Prepurchase Is Live]

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gunbo13

Member
I'll chime in real quick on performance stuff.

The performance issues were pretty much across the board. We were told up front that a lot of optimization still needed to be done, and they were aware of most of the FPS drops and said they would absolutely be addressing them in later builds.

i7-2600K
2 GTX580s in SLI
8GB RAM

Performance varied all over the place. In certain areas, I could get 70-80 FPS on highest settings. One notch down, I was generally averaging around 30-40 FPS in most places in the world. Water reflections made it tank, and in WvWvW, when everyone was throwing spells and abilities around, FRAPS was reporting 12-15 FPS in general.

Game was only running in DirectX9, no current option to use 10 or 11.
Yea, that's a pretty beastly rig to only get 12-15fps. And the 30-40fps was about what was noticable for most of PvE/PvP from the videos.

How about the cities on the highest settings? I mean WvW is due to the amount of activity but those cities have an immense level of detail.
 

Trey

Member
A couple of negative thoughts that stood out for me: crafting is "meh", the fact there wasn't Sylvari or Asura & lastly it's not all seamless. The really have the PR up there.

Other than that, I'm trying really hard not to let the media's negative views get to me. Every game has its problem especially at launch... it does seem like a step back though. Either that or the media at the time, wasn't allowed to talk about the slowdowns or whatever during the convention demo's they were given previously.

Before this passed weekend, they were playing on dedicated machines that were optimized to run the game flawlessly.

Now they're playing on their own private computers, so there will be a lot more variability that Anet will have to account for down the road.
 

Aerox

Neo Member
Yea, that's a pretty beastly rig to only get 12-15fps. And the 30-40fps was about what was noticable for most of PvE/PvP from the videos.

How about the cities on the highest settings? I mean WvW is due to the amount of activity but those cities have an immense level of detail.

The cities were kind of all wildcards -- I could go from amazing FPS to not-great, and I couldn't figure out what particular in the cities were causing drops. It didn't seem to be any one particular thing causing the FPS loss (unlike with the water issue, where it was obvious).
 

Aerox

Neo Member
Before this passed weekend, they were playing on dedicated machines that were optimized to run the game flawlessly.

Now they're playing on their own private computers, so there will be a lot more variability that Anet will have to account for down the road.

Funny quote from some of the devs this weekend -- apparently almost every dev at the company except one dude currently plays on a machine running a 9800 or something very close to it. They said they wanted to make sure it ran at a basic level before diving into the higher end stuff.
 

gunbo13

Member
The cities were kind of all wildcards -- I could go from amazing FPS to not-great, and I couldn't figure out what particular in the cities were causing drops. It didn't seem to be any one particular thing causing the FPS loss (unlike with the water issue, where it was obvious).
Sounds like they made changes to the engine since gamescom and they are still fine-tuning (water issue being a prime example). That would explain the A->B difference. Thanks for the feedback, that clears up a lot.
 

Retro

Member
A couple of negative thoughts that stood out for me: crafting is "meh", the fact there wasn't Sylvari or Asura & lastly it's not all seamless.

Crafting is a big concern of mine too; the videos I've seen are people dumping items somewhat randomly into the crafting window to see if it says they Match. I'm not expecting something like Vanguard's crafting system (still the best I've seen), but it's a bit of a disappointment. The nice thing about MMOs though is that they can be updated later, and if the crafting system turns out to be a snooze fest, they might overhaul it later.

Not being able to play the Sylvari or Asura is kind of a disappointment, but it doesn't affect the final product. I would love to know why they were left out though.

The seamless world is a bit of a disappointment as well, but the alternatives are strange border transitions (World of Warcraft suffers from this greatly) or spending a shitload of time getting regions that connect to transition into one another. That least one would be ideal but probably expensive... I was hoping ANet would rise to the challenge, but I guess not. Still, pretty damn good.
 

Jira

Member
I'll chime in real quick on performance stuff.

The performance issues were pretty much across the board. We were told up front that a lot of optimization still needed to be done, and they were aware of most of the FPS drops and said they would absolutely be addressing them in later builds.

i7-2600K
2 GTX580s in SLI
8GB RAM

Performance varied all over the place. In certain areas, I could get 70-80 FPS on highest settings. One notch down, I was generally averaging around 30-40 FPS in most places in the world. Water reflections made it tank, and in WvWvW, when everyone was throwing spells and abilities around, FRAPS was reporting 12-15 FPS in general.

Game was only running in DirectX9, no current option to use 10 or 11.

Good to hear that they openly acknowledged it and are fixing it.
 
I'm thinking that is medium. It looks like it is around 25-40fps maybe? It does much better inside then outside with the lush garden.

Stupid UT grabs below.
Top = Slideshow which is probably HQ
Bottom = Mike B's likely medium run


Yes, they are day and night (no pun indended). But you should be able to see the difference in detail. This means that if ANET can get modern hardware to do the HQ @ a high FPS, it will be a wonder to see.

he responded to his black citadel tour video that he was using fraps to capture the video and that the game runs fine without it.
 

Jira

Member
Funny quote from some of the devs this weekend -- apparently almost every dev at the company except one dude currently plays on a machine running a 9800 or something very close to it. They said they wanted to make sure it ran at a basic level before diving into the higher end stuff.

Which 9800 are we talking about here? An old ATI 9800 or the 9800 GTX from 2008?
 

gunbo13

Member
he responded to his black citadel tour video that he was using fraps to capture the video and that the game runs fine without it.
Really, everyone should just put "captured with fraps" in their UT description. But I think we are getting clearer answers now so no matter. There is still some definite work to be done so a public beta might be really iffy. A 60fps HQ Lion's Arch is way too important to miss.

Does anyone think that they could just implement a GvG battle using a custom WvW map? Two keeps and all you have to do is take over the other team's. I don't get why they had to purely go towards 5v5 arena cap point shit. Call it KvK for keep vs keep. And if you can support the ridiculous player count of WvW just make it like 12v12. Day 1 for that. I just don't get it.
 

timkunedo

Member
gawd all of the videos and info are amazing. I'm just worried i'm going to need to hurry up and build my new pc before this hits. I want to play on max setting dangit.
 

Proven

Member
Ok, I'm tired of all this Mesmer hate so I'm going to link an interview. The Mesmer was my favorite class in Guild Wars 1, and this interview put all my worries to rest.

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/g...wars-2-39-s-mysterious-mesmer-profession.aspx

We’re trying to keep a lot of what was there with the first mesmer in Guild Wars 1. We felt it was a pretty iconic profession for us.

The big things that he does to carry over that tradition – the Guild Wars 1 mesmer controlled the resources of the game. There was energy, skill interrupting, and all that stuff. The mesmer manipulated and controlled those resources. That was how he fit into the puzzle.

Guild Wars 2’s mesmer does a very similar thing but in a very different way, as the game is very different. The game is a lot about positioning and seeing things in the world and movement. The mesmer does that in a Guild Wars 2 way. The best way to describe that is through his main mechanic, which is these illusions that he summons. In Guild Wars 1, we had hexes. You just put them on guys, and they just sat on their interface. They didn’t know what it was unless they moused over it and read it.

In Guild Wars 2, you summon these illusions in the world. It’s stuff that you actually have to deal with. At the same time, it means that everyone can deal with it, and everyone can look around and see what the mesmer is doing, but they don’t necessarily know what it is. A lot of these illusions are just clones of the mesmer that look exactly like him, and you have to attack them to find out whether or not they’re real. Then you have ones that are a little bit more specific called phantasms. They do something special. For example, on the great sword there’s a phantasm that spins around with a big purple great sword in his hand and cripples guys. He forces you to deal with him. He creates a situation that you have to deal with.
 

Jira

Member
I'd be very surprised if it ran on an ATI 9800, given how old that card is...

... then again the original WoW would run on an ATI 9600.

Only reason I asked is because they've said they run on GPUs so old they have to get them from ebay. Though now that this new info has come out about them running 9800s, it coincides with that old GPU bit. The 9800 GTX can't be bought new and came out in 2008. So that is likely the min spec baseline for GPUs.
 

LProtag

Member
Wonder if this will work on my 2-3 year old Macbook Pro... though by the time it's out hopefully I'll have a new computer.

Also my Windows partition died anyway, blargh.

Now to delve into videos and ignore my writing for the day!
 
I was pretty disappointed with the game after playing at gamescom 2010 and 2011. Some of the videos in this thread are quite impressive, though. I am getting a very strong Dark Age of Camelot RvR vibe from the WvW footage. If they get that right and don't mess up the combat, I am ready to eat my own words and love the game in the end.
 

Retro

Member
Destructoid has a pretty good article up that skips over the basics and just talks about the experience. The comments about WvWvW are interesting;

Destructioid said:
As I joined the fight, I was told we were grouping en masse to try to take back a Green keep near one of our own castles. I met up with my team at the front gate, which we were trying to batter down to no effect. Looking at the map, we realized that the Green team owned almost every supply camp across all four areas, and that the damage we were doing was quickly being repaired by someone inside the keep. Technically, with enough time, we would have eventually been able to wear it down, but a Green scout had alerted his team that we were assaulting the keep, and we ended up being driven off by a defense squad.

As we tried to regroup, we realized we needed to take back the supply camps. Our commander noted that the Green team seemed to consistently travel in one single pack; because they could theoretically be attacked by two teams at once, this wasn't necessarily a bad move. We figured, though, that we could use this to our advantage. We decided to attack another Green structure -- this time a tower -- but we peeled off two small teams of four (one of which I joined) to go try to take back the supply camps while Green was distracted by this new assault.

It worked. For the next hour, my small group ran across all four maps, liberating supply camps and taking down any Green caravans we saw along the way. Currently, you are only notified that one of your structures is under attack if you are near it, although you can look at the map and see who controls each point. If you watch the map carefully, you can see that you're losing ground, but you won't know anything about the size of the force or which direction they're heading in next unless you have players scouting the area. Green apparently did not do this, as we were able to take all but one supply camp for Red.

With their supply lines cut off, Green had a much harder time defending their points. We all grouped back up, and went on a rampage across Green's home territory, capturing four or five towers and keeps before we were eventually located and repelled. I logged out that night in pretty good spirits, convinced that we had put ourselves in a great position, until I logged back in Sunday morning and found that Blue had mounted a huge comeback overnight, taking virtually all of the territory we had previously won. Oops. (source)

Protecting supply lines, scouting, defense squads, distractions.... and these are game journalists! That's like getting info on real-world combat from embedded reporters... if embedded reporters didn't need journalism degrees and could barely tie their shoes, that is.

I'd be very surprised if it ran on an ATI 9800, given how old that card is...

... then again the original WoW would run on an ATI 9600.

I have a toaster I bought at K-mart on clearance for $5 four years ago that runs WoW.

Ok, I'm tired of all this Mesmer hate so I'm going to link an interview. The Mesmer was my favorite class in Guild Wars 1, and this interview put all my worries to rest.

I wonder if any development time was spent on stuff like illusionary terrain. Maybe create a rock that appears solid but isn't (good for hiding troops, though I suppose the stealth field does the same thing) or a pool of lava or something that could either be real or fake. I'd also love to see Mesmers with some kind of deceptive 'map editing' ability that can make an objective in PVP look like it's safe or under attack when it actually isn't, to misdirect enemy forces.
 

Fishious

Member
Wow, so much to take in. I've watched a few videos already (though many on youtube are loading veeery slowly) and I have to say the game's looking good. I'm most excited for stuff like details on the trait system, but I'll probably wait for someone to transcribe those since it's a hassle to watch the videos. So far I've found the impressions and videos from enthusiast sites to be better than those from general gaming sites.

I'm sure the GW2 fans have an advantage since they've been following the game and already know the gameplay (at least theoretically) whereas the other guys may not know all about switching weapons in combat or dodging. Still some of their basic blunders confound me.
 
I'll concur with there being some optimization issues.

My system currently is:

i7-920 @ 3.7 GHz
3GB Radeon HD 7950
12 GB RAM

FPS ranged from the mid 20s to high 50s depending on the area.
Played mostly Charr, my system was chugging in the Black Citadel.
Hell, I had to apply a pre-release gfx driver hotfix to keep the game from crashing every 5-10 minutes.
When it works, it's beautiful, but they have some technical mopping up to do on the back end.
Even lowering the options really didn't help much.
 

Jira

Member
Wow, so much to take in. I've watched a few videos already (though many on youtube are loading veeery slowly) and I have to say the game's looking good. I'm most excited for stuff like details on the trait system, but I'll probably wait for someone to transcribe those since it's a hassle to watch the videos. So far I've found the impressions and videos from enthusiast sites to be better than those from general gaming sites.

I'm sure the GW2 fans have an advantage since they've been following the game and already know the gameplay (at least theoretically) whereas the other guys may not know all about switching weapons in combat or dodging. Still some of their basic blunders confound me.

Here's how the new Trait system works:

The small traits are locked into the specific line, however each large trait can be swapped out. There's 7 large traits per line totaling 35 large traits and adding in the small traits you have 50 total for each class. Putting points into a line gives you statistical bonuses that reflect that line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18z7lKQvaOw&feature=player_embedded
 

Negaiido

Member
I'll concur with there being some optimization issues.

My system currently is:

i7-920 @ 3.7 GHz
3GB Radeon HD 7950
12 GB RAM

FPS ranged from the mid 20s to high 50s depending on the area.
Played mostly Charr, my system was chugging in the Black Citadel.
Hell, I had to apply a pre-release gfx driver hotfix to keep the game from crashing every 5-10 minutes.
When it works, it's beautiful, but they have some technical mopping up to do on the back end.
Even lowering the options really didn't help much.

If the highest graphics card (7950) of ATI can't handle this game properly then I would say that "some optimization issues" is an understatement.
 

Jira

Member
What doesn't make sense is how all throughout 2011 the game ran butter smooth at conventions, not a damn hiccup and I've seen A LOT of footage to say the least. They must be doing some kind of changes to the engine that are in flux and causing these issues because they demo the game on lesser systems than some people had in Beta and performance was fine. It really is likely a byproduct of engine changes, drivers, and recording video.
 

gunbo13

Member
Ok, I'm tired of all this Mesmer hate so I'm going to link an interview. The Mesmer was my favorite class in Guild Wars 1, and this interview put all my worries to rest.
Yea, we get it. But illusions, shatters, and phantasms are just fancy delivery methods. With the removal of hexes they are causing conditions, damage, and buffs. Elementalists can do that free and actively. So the mesmer's real gimmick is the actual illusions. However, there is some play with the general skills. Mesmers can actively remove boons, which can be pretty damn helpful against a Guardian camper. And Mass Invisibility is pretty cool.

They just don't feel as unique as they did in GW1. Guardian, Necro, and Ele all seem far more interesting to play.
Protecting supply lines, scouting, defense squads, distractions.... and these are game journalists! That's like getting info on real-world combat from embedded reporters... if embedded reporters didn't need journalism degrees and could barely tie their shoes, that is.
Conceptually it is great. The only issues are the ones I brought up. The alliance meta where its like all the strong kids are ganging up on people in dodge-ball. And the waving or "zerg rush" as everyone is labeling it. ANET will have sort of some say with both but the former will be tougher. Though, I think it would be hilarious if things got political with the alliances and server holding.
It really is likely a byproduct of engine changes, drivers, and recording video.
I'd say engine changes.
 

Alchemy

Member
What doesn't make sense is how all throughout 2011 the game ran butter smooth at conventions, not a damn hiccup and I've seen A LOT of footage to say the least. They must be doing some kind of changes to the engine that are in flux and causing these issues because they demo the game on lesser systems than some people had in Beta and performance was fine. It really is likely a byproduct of engine changes, drivers, and recording video.

Demo machines are all the same pieces of hardware, the beta was rolled out to a huge group of gamers that all have varying hardware set ups. Its way easier to optimize software for one specific set of hardware then it is to get it working on a huge range of machines. I bet the game runs fine on development hardware too.

In the beta environment the devs don't know everyone's set up or driver configuration. This is one of the reasons that alphas and betas are so valuable to devs.
 

etiolate

Banned
Having gone through the Mesmer videos, I'm rather worried about the class. It doesn't look like it feels like a Mesmer. There was little attention being paid to what the foe was doing and countering it. It was just repeating the same 1,2,3 skillbar press. The illusions look unreliable. They pop up somewhat randomly, so you can't accurately place them and they do not avoid aoe at all. They look like a crippled mechanic, which is troubling because its supposed to be the core mechanic of the class. It just doesn't look Mesmery. It looks like a lot of abilities similar to the other classes + an illusion pop, and those illusions look like a handicapped mechanic.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
I have been checking youtube for some videos today. So far I'm not sure what to think. Some aspects of the game look great. Like the environments, the way they handle abilities based on weapons. But then I see PVP vids that look pretty lame or animations that look bad (like the running animations of a few races).

Is there any way to try this game before buying it when it comes out?
 

Vano

Member
If they changed the engine is understandable the problems, if they said that they know the problems then is a good sign, using this closed beta experience to fix back end and drivers problems, support for new cards and more.

In the second vid, when his character loses her clothes, you can see her reflection in the ice. I thought that was a nice touch.

The ice thing. Not the clothes thing. But that was good too.

Those videos are awesome, one of thing i will enjoy the most will be explore those cities, so much details and touch all over the place. I liked in the Black Citadel video the touch of the Charr walking in two legs and then in four after he fell from a ledge.

Oh and i love how the cities are so populated, doesn't feel like a desert or just a Players Hub, feels and looks like a real city.
 

Helmholtz

Member
I have been checking youtube for some videos today. So far I'm not sure what to think. Some aspects of the game look great. Like the environments, the way they handle abilities based on weapons. But then I see PVP vids that look pretty lame or animations that look bad (like the running animations of a few races).

Is there any way to try this game before buying it when it comes out?
Beta news is supposed to be released this week, so we'll have a better idea of when the beta weekends start and how to get into them.
 

Sent

Member
I have been checking youtube for some videos today. So far I'm not sure what to think. Some aspects of the game look great. Like the environments, the way they handle abilities based on weapons. But then I see PVP vids that look pretty lame or animations that look bad (like the running animations of a few races).

Is there any way to try this game before buying it when it comes out?

There will be some sort of open beta.

Here is some decent PVP - mesmer perspective (go to 8:30 for a good 1v1 fight): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0WX4Cc7TFs

45 minutes of WvWvW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzQCi7c0DuY
 

Fishious

Member
Here's how the new Trait system works:

The small traits are locked into the specific line, however each large trait can be swapped out. There's 7 large traits per line totaling 35 large traits and adding in the small traits you have 50 total for each class. Putting points into a line gives you statistical bonuses that reflect that line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18z7lKQvaOw&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the explanation, but I should have been more specific. I already read the article at necrobator, watched that video, and one other about traits. I'm itching to know what sort of traits each profession has, but I don't have the patience to watch each profession trait video so I'll just wait until someone transcribes those into a more easily digestible format. Regardless, anyone who hasn't seen that video should check it out along with the accompanying article.
 

Proven

Member
Having gone through the Mesmer videos, I'm rather worried about the class. It doesn't look like it feels like a Mesmer. There was little attention being paid to what the foe was doing and countering it. It was just repeating the same 1,2,3 skillbar press. The illusions look unreliable. They pop up somewhat randomly, so you can't accurately place them and they do not avoid aoe at all. They look like a crippled mechanic that is the core the class. It just doesn't look Mesmery. It looks like a lot of abilities similar to the other classes + an illusion pop, and those illusions look like a handicapped mechanic.

For one thing, a lot of these videos are in the starting areas, where there's a lot of leeway. I haven't seen anyone really play Mesmer well in any PvP or WvW videos yet, if at all. The Mesmer is one of the light armor classes, and even in GW1 his abilities tended to be indirect. Everyone is being drawn to him for now because of the flashy and a couple of easy to spam abilities, but you're going to be more flimsy than a sheet of paper coming up against a real threat. People don't know how to play, and the main difference is that people casually playing Mesmer in GW1 gave up sooner.
 

ShaneB

Member
My god, information overload, so much stuff.

Just commenting on the performance issues, I really hope everything gets straightened out. The big draw to me for this was how they had the mindset to make sure this runs on just about everything, which all MMO's should strive for, if they want the biggest audience possible.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Man, I'm very hesitant on whether I should do a blackout and not read this or just read it all. Arg.... So hard to decide.
 

Fishious

Member
All Ranger Pets (including aquatic):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXM_ZsNwKWg

I'm surprised by the small owl/eagle/raven pets, looks like you kind kind of go a "Falconer" kind of route. Also, there's some gnarly looking spiders in there (and a whip scorpion).

Awesome stuff. I plan on maining ranger so it's nice to see what the pets are like (at least aesthetically). I wasn't terribly thrilled with the aquatic pets until the armor fish. That thing is simply massive. I must have it.
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
Man, I'm very hesitant on whether I should do a blackout and not read this or just read it all. Arg.... So hard to decide.

Better to be informed of everything now rather than being blindsided by something in the future imo.
 

Jira

Member
This year sure is filled with great games!

Is there any detailed videos on combination attacks yet?

Do you mean cross profession combos? If so I highly doubt much of the press even knew of the existence of them let alone how to pull some of them off. The press generally wallows in their own spit and aren't very good gamers. Takes them a long time to grasp basic mechanics let alone any substantial ones.
 

Sophia

Member
Are people still complaining over lack of elementalist videos?

Ele PvP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMrpolYQvag (He uses a dagger!)

Bless you.

*watches*

Edit: YUP OKAY I'M SOLD. Elementalist for sure.

Edit 2: The guy playing that is awful tho. Almost as awful as the IGN guys. I mean you have a healing spell as your fifth water ability and you flat out don't use it in a PvP scenario, instead waiting on the abiltiy on CD? Wat?
 

gogojira

Member
I have a couple questions for anyone who's played or is knowledgeable on the subject (currently at work so filters kill most gaming sites, though GAF isn't flagged for some reason).

Do we have any idea how large the map is? Guild Wars 2 looks fantastic but I'm wondering how big in scope the world is, and if it feels like an actual large world. For comparisons sake, I felt like Rift was way too small.

And what about the cities. I'm starting to get the impression that they are instanced. Are they not large hubs for the player base? When I say hubs, I mean like Freeport in EQ where they're a central location for trading, etc.

They look really damn grand, so it'd be a shame for them to only be personal instances. Thanks for any help.
 
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