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Halo:CE Anniversary Announced (MS Conf, Nov 15th 2011, $40)
- Thread starter Sanic
- Start date
The Antitype
Banned
Letters said:
IMO, it's not overpowered in the sense that it's unfair in a fire-fight.
It's unfair in the sense that it disrupts the weapon's place in the sandbox. If a weapon can maintain accuracy regardless of fire-rate, then it becomes useful across a variety of ranges.
That was the problem with the Halo: CE pistol. It was powerful up close. It was powerful at mid-range. It could keep snipers at bay at long-range.
So now you have significantly less reason to use any other weapon outside very specialized scenarios.
Bloom in Reach keeps headshot-capable weapons like the Pistol, DMR, Needler, Sniper confined to their roles in the sandbox.
Players that take them outside their intended ranges, are forced to play the odds a bit. You CAN win in a DMR spam battle at close range, but you don't have to chance it if you use stay at mid-range with it, and switch to the AR or something for short range.
CAVEAT: I think the pistol needs to be beefed a bit, because currently it's advantage at short range over a spamming DMR isn't strong enough.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
jambo said:
Might be a placeholder price like Amazon UK had earlier. What's the typical RRP over there?
Reach is a decent mp game but you can't put lipstick on a pig. (halo ce settings on Reach)
My friends and I who grew up lanning h1 back in the day aren't going to say how cool this is to have AA in CE maps with the Reach game mechanics etc, but why didn't they just do mp online with h1. I hate to be so anti-ce remake but this just sucks. I guess the campaign is there to play with friends..
My friends and I who grew up lanning h1 back in the day aren't going to say how cool this is to have AA in CE maps with the Reach game mechanics etc, but why didn't they just do mp online with h1. I hate to be so anti-ce remake but this just sucks. I guess the campaign is there to play with friends..
VGChampion
Member
CyReN said:
Exactly. My friends and I never really got into the Reach MP but Halo 1 still rivals as one of our most played games. Really missed opportunity.
And really, the closer the campaign is kept to the original the better. I don't want boarding, assasinations, etc.. in Halo 1. I can always go back to the "newer" entries if I want that. And yeah, I could go back to the original Halo 1 if I want but after wearing out three discs I don't feel like buying another one right now. That and some really weird things happen if we try playing on the 360. :/
Steelyuhas
Member
The Antitype said:
Also its advantage over that AR at any range is pretty minimal at this point. The nerf of that weapon after the beta makes no sense to me.
GarthVaderUK said:
$100, but then stores compete with each other and drive prices down to the $70s and $80s. So many people I know just order online these days
http://www.ebgames.com.au/xbox360-152594-DiRT-3-Xbox-360
http://ebgames.com.au/xbox360-153352-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-3-Xbox-360
http://ebgames.com.au/xbox360-153113-Battlefield-3-Limited-Edition-Xbox-360
http://www.ebgames.com.au/xbox360-151921-Duke-Nukem-Forever-Xbox-360
Madness
CrazedArabMan
Member
Tunavi said:
Yeah, Frankie confirmed even in here that it is the original Halo's co-op with 2 players.
Sarah_Bryant
Junior Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
Isn't that Frank O'Connor (aka Frankie aka Outer World Voice), posting in this thread? Or is it the guy from id?
Frankie pls confirm?
The Antitype
Banned
Steelyuhas said:
I don't know. At close-mid range, a pistol user that times his shots in the proper cadence (ie, in time with the bloom), usually beats an AR. It's only at really close range that the AR dominates in my experience.
But I'm hardly an Onyx level player. Only silver-gold.
Steelyuhas
Member
The Antitype said:
The fact the a magnum player that shoots 5 perfect shots "usually beats and AR" who is holding down the trigger and aiming in a general direction is sad.
The Antitype
Banned
Steelyuhas said:
Ok, if the nail four+headshot, they ALWAYS win. At close-medium range, when you have the time for perfectly-timed shots. If you miss the headshot, then you're kind of screwed.
At close-range, the AR wins.
But the AR SHOULD win at close range, otherwise it serves no purpose in the sandbox.
But yeah, I wouldn't mind a minor upgrade for the pistol damage or faster bloom recovery.
GodfatherX
Member
i love bloom, and hope it stays for H4. It finally fixes a gripe I have had since H2 and the BR
CrazedArabMan
Member
GodfatherX said:
This post makes me cry man tears for what Halo has become.
The Antitype
Banned
CrazedArabMan said:
wwm0nkey said:
I have no problem with bloom.
NullPointer
Member
Same here.The Antitype said:
The Antitype
Banned
Tunavi said:
*shrugs*
It's a mechanic that helps ensure that the weapons conform to their roles in the sandbox.
I think it works well.
But then, I thought it worked great in Shadowrun too. I've never had much of a problem with it in any game.
Thagomizer
Member
Does anyone else prefer the look of the Pelicans in the original? The texture just looks better, both aesthetically and technically.
Captain Blood
Member
343i knows that bloom is sad times and thank god for that.
The Antitype
Banned
wwm0nkey said:
I don't have a problem with it. Reach is arguably the most balanced game in the series. There are some small issues that could use some tweaking, but nothing outstandingly broken like previous games. Bloom may not be popular, but it definitely has something to do with that.
Captain Blood said:
Yes, we definitely need more weapons that can be fired at any rate, from any distance, with the same efficacy.
Screw this picking the right weapon for the job, or using each weapon properly. What we need is more weapons that can be totally versatile and completely overpowered.
See: Halo CE pistol or Halo 2 BR.
Ugh.
ElRenoRaven
Member
wwm0nkey said:
Did you just say that you want bloom in your bloom for Halo 4?
It doesn't work very well with the scoping mechanic of Halo.The Antitype said:
If someone is scoping in their DMR at you and they get the first shot off, then you are at a HUGE disadvantage. Your unscoped reticle is HUGE and their scoped reticle has pinpoint accuracy. They can spam and you have to get lucky or wait for the bloom to reset. This time they will already have spammed off 3 or 4 shots at you and all they need is the headshot to finish you off.
What's the point of bloom anyway?
NullPointer
Member
What we need is *one* weapon, that everybody spawns with, that works decently at all ranges and has a skill curve so epic that it bends light. Then reduce multiplayer to one hopper that pits the noobiest of the noobs against ten-star-ultra-generals for the best in free range donging.The Antitype said:
Balance achieved.
ElRenoRaven
Member
wwm0nkey said:
Ok. Frankie did you hear that? Make it so.
NullPointer
Member
With an ActiveBloom mini-game to let you reduce it faster.wwm0nkey said:
They could just balance it better, maybe make the the AR have bigger crosshair, but do more damage, that practically guarantees a kill from close range unless the rifle player does a really good performance (fights should not be over before they even start just because of what you have in your hands, a player should still have a chance every time, even if small, unless using a weapon that is way outside its optimal range), or perhaps something else, bloom can't be the only solution to this!!The Antitype said:
ElRenoRaven
Member
claviertekky said:
I don't either. More then anything it seems that some don't like change so much when it comes to their guns. For me I wouldn't mind seeing it go but it don't bother me either way.
The Xtortionist
Member
claviertekky said:
It isn't consistent in Halo Reach. You can spam DMR/NR all day and occasionally get kills when that should never happen. Shadowrun and CS demonstrate how bloom should ideally function in a shooter; Reach is a misstep.
The Antitype
Banned
Tunavi said:
It only takes one shot, anywhere on the body, to take a player out of zoom and nullify that advantage.
Similarly, there's no law that you have to try and kill the person shooting at you. There's cover everywhere in Reach - even where there isn't a huge object, the terrain is varied and uneven enough for players to break sight-lines fairly quickly and easily.
If I'm getting shot at by a scoped player, I'm much better off finding cover and buying some time for my shields to recharge than charging at the guy and hoping out out-gun him. And that goes for every Halo. You CAN recover from a disadvantage if you play smart and well (this is what separates Halo from games like CoD), but you can also choose discretion as the better part of valor, retreat, and reacquire in a few seconds.
As for what's the point of bloom? It helps confine each weapon to their intended role in the sandbox.
The pistol in Halo CE was overpowered because it was intended to be a mid-range weapon. But it was so powerful and so accurate, the players used it at short range and long range too. And it threw everything out of wack (although Halo:CE diehards loved it). Likewise, the sniper-rifle in Halo 2 (where players could easily no-scope) or the BR in Halo 3 (which was effective across almost all ranges, save long-range where the spread thankfully became an issue).
The DMR is only REALLY effective at mid-range, where the cadence of the bloom allows players to take 5 well-placed shots, or spam 4 and line up the 5th. At long range (where it should really only be used for keeping snipers at bay while you close the distance), you can still take accurate shots, but the spread of the bloom means that you have to take slower shots to be accurate. So the weapons damage-per-second decreases at range, and it becomes a less effect killing tool. Up close, you basically have to spam and pray. Not really effective at all against ARs or Shotguns (and ideally pistols...small balancing issue).
If the DMR is too versatile, then it prevents players from using other weapons, which decreases combat variety. It also puts everybody who is stuck with something other than the DMR at a disadvantage because there's NO range they can force the battle into where they have the upper hand. With bloom, a player with the AR can try to use grenades, the environment, and AAs to close the gap, and eventually they negate the DMRs advantage and get the upper hand.
It makes every tool in the sandbox worthwhile.
metareferential
Member
The Xtortionist said:
That's not true. If you spam, your bullets go somewhere around your actual target, so you can get a lucky shot (I'm simplifying, of course).
And from my experience, spammers just get destroyed online. On a large enough number of encounters, lucky shots are pretty much irrelevant.
It can still be annoying, that's for sure.
apocalidiot
Banned
I'm gonna join the bitchfest and say that I'm super super sad and mad that there's not gonna be Halo CE online. This has been my dream since 2005 when the 360 launched, and I still push LAN'ing for it on my buddies (last weekend actually) and I really wish I could play this sucker online. Halo PC is laggy as shit and XBC was fun, but damn. A boy can dream, can't he?
Frankie, why have you(r company) forsaken me? I remember some of my first posts on this forum were arguing with Frankie about the pistol in Halo CE... I was so psyched to finally post on GAF and do that :lol. Now he has the last laugh...
bummer
Frankie, why have you(r company) forsaken me? I remember some of my first posts on this forum were arguing with Frankie about the pistol in Halo CE... I was so psyched to finally post on GAF and do that :lol. Now he has the last laugh...
bummer
KidA Seven
Member
The Antitype said:
Bloom worked in Shadowrun because spamming wasn't effective in Shadowrun and the amount of shots to kill was lower than in Reach.
Fuck Halo Reach bloom. Love the single shot aspect of the DMR though.
KidA Seven
Member
zethren said:
So you guys enjoy the slower killing times? I would prefer the game to be a little faster.
The Antitype
Banned
The Xtortionist said:
It isn't inconsistent. Bloom works the same way, all the time. The problem is that the way it currently works doesn't completely eliminate chance kills, as you say.
Ideally, Bungie would tweak the bloom so that the bubble expanded much larger with every shot, but receded much quicker.
That way, it would take VERY few successive shots to render the weapon useless, but players that timed their shots would be able to hammer them out at a quicker pace.
KidA Seven said:
It didn't take THAT many more shots to kill with the rifle (DMR equivalent) in Shadowrun. What was it, 5 shots for elves, 7 shots for humans? Can't remember how well spamming worked. It was still possible to get lucky though.