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Halo |OT 24| In Before the Locke
- Thread starter Fracas
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wesleyshark
Banned
The end of the world and the end of Halo. Or something haha.
Tha Robbertster
Member
http://gematsu.com/2015/06/microsoft-announces-gamescom-2015-plans
They apparently will have a stand where Halo 5 is playable.
I'm not defending Dan Ayoub for disappearing and for not talking to us. I'm referring to the posts and tweets he had to deal with. Anywhere else on this forum, people would have been banned for the shit he had to deal with, but just not on HaloGAF. You have all the right to be upset, because they delivered a broken product, but you can also do that while staying reasonable. Devs getting attacked personally or even getting death threats (and yes I saw those on Twitter and other Forums) shouldn't be an acceptable way to communicate your disappointment. And I truly believe 343i is very sorry how the MCC turned out, but they have to prove themselves by fixing the MCC completely and releasing an other awesome game with no issues at all. If they do that, I will give them the benefit of the doubt again. Until then, I'm not really a fan of them. I'm having really mixed feelings about H5 and a huge problem with the direction H5 is headed MP wise, but that's a completely different story, which I already explained several times.
If you think 1 man is responsible for all the issues the MCC had, then you might be delusional, but that's just my opinion on that matter. Just ask yourself, what you would do in his situation. Ask yourself how you would deal with people literally shitting on you.
IIRC, the development split was the following:
- Saber Interactive was responsible for H2A graphics. No issues.
- Ruffian Games was responsible for porting the games. They didn't do the best job, but the campaigns worked at least.
- United Front was responsible for the UI. Poor job, as the UI had some real issues.
- Blur Studios was responsible for the CGI cutscenes for H2A and H5.
- Certain Affinity was responsible for the maps. Poor job in my eyes.
- 343i was responsible for the netcode, which didn't work a very long time. It was also their responsibilty, that the game would actually work as a complete package and they failed.
I completely understand people who are frustrated over these things. Hell, I was one of the dumb people pre-ordering this mess and I was heavily disappointed, but I don't sign up on these forums or on Twitter to single out devs and attacking them. The only thing I should have done is request a refund for it, but I didn't and that's my (or even better OUR) mistake. People should send a message to devs, but the general audience doesn't care enough unfortunately. They won't stop pre-ordering games.
TLDR version:
User 73706
Banned
The MCC was an endeavor carried out by hundreds of people from multiple companies. Trying to attack a single guy with laser-focus - whose job it is to serve as a mouthpiece for a first-party company within one of the largest companies on Earth, mind you - isn't going to accomplish anything. It's no better than all of that shit that gets pulled with Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn.
CRIMSONxSERAPH
Neo Member
So to avoid all the venomous comments entirely, because all the negativity here directed at 343 would make an electron blush...
What happened to Game Informer's June 29 post? I need my H5 fix, pronto!
Edit:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/29/ask-us-your-halo-5-guardians-questions-for-our-special-edition-podcast.aspx
This is the only Halo-related post I could find on GI from yesterday.
What happened to Game Informer's June 29 post? I need my H5 fix, pronto!
Edit:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/29/ask-us-your-halo-5-guardians-questions-for-our-special-edition-podcast.aspx
This is the only Halo-related post I could find on GI from yesterday.
TS x Massacre
Member
We're just at that point in the cycle. We should be used to it by now
The Real Napsta
Member
Halo 3 just feels like mud compared to any other halo. I think people don't put in the time to get used to it anymore.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
wesleyshark
Banned
surprises and tears
We're definitely in the Trolling Disappointment and Nitpicking stages right now, with a side of Ignorance and Surprises and Tears. Good grief. This cycle is hilariously accurate.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Good post.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Pretty much this. It's seriously unlikely that any one person can fairly be made to carry the blame for the whole thing, and if there was, it's unlikely to be Dan. He's just the most visible target.
They absolutely aren't, and there's no defending them. Sadly, they happen a lot across a variety of industries because there's a lot of really maladjusted people out there with the perception of anonymity on the internet.
Are they really, though? Saying you're sorry and feeling bad is one thing, but it kind of rings hollow when you don't have any refund or recall program and instead are sitting on top of hundreds of millions of dollars from severely disappointed fans with no recourse. Mix in the poor communication, constant attempts to redirect focus onto Halo 5 and generate further profits, an abysmal job patching the game (it's been nearly eight months now), and so on, and it's hard to see any sort of sincerity in the apologies.
I absolutely don't think he's responsible for the problems entirely. However, he is an executive producer, hype man, and public face of the game before the launch making promises like "fastest and fairest matchmaking system." So when he disappears entirely merely days after the game comes out and is revealed to be a mess, it's unacceptable.
Dealing with difficult times is part of the job, and owning responsibility when your project goes bad is part of life. I've been there. Certainly nowhere near that scale, but I've had things ship to major customers and have issues, I've had projects not hit deadlines, etc. And when it happens, you face the music, own the problem, and you deal with it. Even when that means carrying a work phone around for pretty much the sole purpose of getting chewed out at 3AM.
It's awful, but that's the way it goes. You don't get to run away from it, and you certainly don't get to surface when things died down as if nothing ever happened and you weren't burying your head in the sand for the past several months. I wouldn't, and if I ever did I would be out of a job.
He doesn't deserve to be blamed or targeted for MCC being the disaster it was, no. Personally, my issue with him isn't that the game is broken. It's that he disappeared immediately after launch when it became apparent that the game was broken. That's behavior that's worthy of drawing criticism.
I don't know, I've never even really cared about blaming singular individuals for these kinds of things as opposed to the company altogether, but I'm pretty sure the executive producer in charge of the game, and the one tasked with being the public face of both marketing the game, and promoting it can be blamed. I mean if Episode VII is junk, you're going to blame either JJ Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy or Lawrence Kasdan, you're not going to say, well Industrial Light and Magic did the CGI etc.
At the end of the day, this was a 343 project, with Dan Ayoub as executive producer on the project leading the helm, they are the ones who contracted out to these companies, and the ones who are supposed to take what the companies did and put it onto a disc and make sure it works.
I don't mean this as an insult, I really don't, but you are being incredibly narrow sighted in your view about what makes a good halo game for all that buy and enjoy halo games. You will likely never get the perfect halo game, and neither will I. Not because the developers don't listen, not because the developers don't get halo, but because very few of us can agree on what is best for the franchise.
I'm sure this is an obvious point, but let's try to keep it in mind folks.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Agreed. When you're playing it in combination with all the other games it feels like trash, but if you take the time to get used to it it feels fine.
There's a reason we played Halo 3 for so many years: it's a good fucking game.
Yeah you could probably poll just HaloGAF and you'd get a variety of things we would differ on. Some hate sprint, some like it. Some like AR/pistol starts, others adamantly love BR starts. Plus, we have the CE fans who don't like 2, 3, Reach, the Halo 2 fans who hare Halo 3, the Halo 3 fans who like it the best etc.
Though I'm sure we all can agree ADS is one of the worst things to happen
wesleyshark
Banned
Though I'm sure we all can agree ADS is one of the worst things to happen
I wasn't a believer in ads until I started playing Destiny... Was converted over time and now I can't ever go back to hip firing. Feels so awkward.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Halo 3 could have been Reach or Halo 4 and it would have been just as popular at the time.
zzz
Yeah you could probably poll just HaloGAF and you'd get a variety of things we would differ on. Some hate sprint, some like it. Some like AR/pistol starts, others adamantly love BR starts. Plus, we have the CE fans who don't like 2, 3, Reach, the Halo 2 fans who hare Halo 3, the Halo 3 fans who like it the best etc.
Though I'm sure we all can agree ADS is one of the worst things to happen
Nope, I love ads as presented in 5 but not destiny --- get the fuck outta here with that
. Don't think it's needed for all guns though, but I'm sure there are plenty that played the beta and loved scoping with a smg
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
4v4 H2/3 objective games at launch and most of life were all BR starts if my memory serves correctly, CE all pistol and 1flag/bomb/clan were BR starts too. BTB/social and slayer were the ones lacking BR starts at various times with Halo 3, also around times when population started to nose dive I think.
As for MLG comments you heavily imply that by writing off dev settings across all games.
Anyhow it's not always bad when the BR isn't around, spawn killing sucks but I think H5 beta made real progress with the points we are discussing.
I'm the first to raise my hand about maps and gametypes like you post, I'm not a fan of koth, grifball or flag indicators etc. When you look back at population, settings and playlist management it's clear why they shift things around. The same settings dwindle and they have to mix things up.
Stockpile worked and was fun but never rivalled bomb or flag. Ricochet however is awesome and with the right match ups is one of my favourite additions. Locking that behind paid map DLC was a major mistake, again we see H5 making real progress here.
I was referring to things like playlist management and gametype setting mistakes that are being constantly repeated and not how Bungie/343i can please everybody. Not sure if wanting a dedicated playlist, where for example BR starts are standard, is narrow sighted? I can't imagine, that people truly enjoy playing AR/SMG starts on BTB maps, for example. Especially if the other team has trapped you down with BR's and you can't move out of your base anymore.
As far as the "perfect Halo game" goes... I know it's impossible to please everybody, but you can help people enjoying the game more by simply giving people more playlists with the desired maps and gametypes. I'm still waiting for the Halo 3 Hardcore playlist addition and if I get that, I'm going to be pleased.
Just a coupple of examples what I exactly mean:
- Halo 3 was improved with MLG settings.
- Halo Reach was improved with Slayer Pro and Zero Bloom settings.
- Halo 4 was improved with Legendary settings.
- etc.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
That's the thing with this round of salt, no-one is blaming a single individual. It all started when I stated that 343 witholds information.
No worries. I'm not the best when it comes to writing english texts. It's not my native language, so I catch myself explaining what I meant afterwards pretty often.
gzus.
pls stay away from Halo
RE: MCC
Yes it was a bunch of shit duct taped together. But you do have to keep in mind 343/MS were responsible for bringing it all together. As a producer of the game, that is on you to make sure it comes together. If you find out a certain division or person under you was slacking, you fix it or get someone else.
Their current explanation is that there were issues that weren't seen until MCC was out in the wild. Development will always be somewhat of a secret. And I don't mean to call out 343 on misleading us on that. But its VERY questionable due to how deep the bugs were. And the fact that pre release builds of the game were fucking up on LAN merely weeks before launch.
As a producer the game is your responsibility so yes, while you didn't write the code that fucked it up, you were responsible for making sure that it meets quality. So any qualms about MCC rightfully should be aimed at Ayoub and his lack of communication has been disappointing.
Wish 343 would be more clear on what exactly went wrong and why.
Welfare
Member
Oh shit that might be the biggest positive for no splitscreen.
TS x Massacre
Member
Yeah, and if I recall correctly that set some harsh limits on Forge
Well we are supposed to be getting that post mortem from Frank, but how can we trust a man who can't even grow his own hair?
You mean you can use glass now?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
in Reach if a playlist wanted Forge maps the rule is it had to be dropped from 4 split to 2 split. The community was so small for 4-split compatible maps that I can't remember if any nondevForge made it into a 4-split playlist.
They also favored dev and 4-split maps in the voting to win in a tie by putting them first on the list
4 slightly changed it up with a similar rule, but they put the more split screen friendly maps at the top of the voting list and the more intense ones lower. So the community was basically "choose your own framerate"
This is also why some playlists in Reach and 4 never got nondevForge maps, because they had high 4-split populations.
Forerunner
Member
wesley plz
Reach Forge DA GOAT.
If we can have a return to form along those lines, I can ALMOST forgive 343 entirely for this lack of split-screen drama.
Had to chime in here too
GTFO
If 60fps is important and integral now, how can they make sure someone's map won't have sections that literally drop it to 30 or whatnot? Obviously they have that meter, but how could someone gauge whether their map is giving them a consistent and locked 60 frames, if that's what they're going for.
I'd imagine it'd be similar to before, your map has to be performant, just your floor is a lot higher now.
Refuge was submitted and pushed. Sometimes the luck of the draw doesn't go your way : p
The thing is they out right said it's a performance issues. It's not like BTB where they are putting more focus on something else, I'm salty about that. The no split-screen according to them hinders the game. If Spilt-Screen is hurts the games performance, then what can 343 do. We know Halo 5 was going to be 60fps before we even know the name of the game.
I'm guessing that it trying to replace a dev-created map didn't do it any favors either.
I think people are disappointed that the engine can't handle split screen and 60 FPS or that other sacrifices weren't made to make it possible. Other 60 FPS games have managed to include splitscreen modes (e.g. CoD), so it's not as if there's some magical limitation that says 60 FPS games can't have a split screen mode. People are just bummed that the game can't handle it and the decision was to put the resources elsewhere rather than focusing on changing/improving/whatevering things to make it possible.
Disappointed is fair nothing wrong with that I also grew up on Splitscreen. I can't be mad, because I don't know what issues they ran into.
wesleyshark
Banned
Not sure if sarcastic or not? Lol.
Either way... ADS is fantastic. From a FPS perspective, it just makes sense to have in a game released in 2015.
Edit: ah. Not sarcastic haha.
Had to chime in here too
Zeouterlimits
Member
You never got it?
Or maybe you opened it and it expired? I think they do that.
Forerunner
Member
Not sure if sarcastic or not? Lol.
Either way... ADS is fantastic. From a FPS perspective, it just makes sense to have in a game released in 2015.
Edit: ah. Not sarcastic haha.
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