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Halo |OT 24| In Before the Locke

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Ramirez

Member
For the record, the BR isn't the problem for me.

AND I agree, but that isn't truly Halo 3..that's Halo 3 with 110% movement speed and damage without equipment and a very reduced weapon sandbox. I played a ton of Halo 3 MLG back in the day (although the foundry maps are horrendous).

Not a single Halo game on Live was great with the dev settings. It always took MLG to make them great from a competitive standpoint. I mean you dudes are still suffering through SMG/AR starts in MCC.

The BR is the problem for most people though, and yes it was random and screwy at times. I'd take shot leading though over point and shoot death machines like the DMR in Reach/4 any day of the week.

Halo 4 didn't have a single map that I would consider a classic, so that alone makes the notion of 4>3 crazy to me.
 

Madness

Member
Hey guys, this 2.5 year old game plays much better than this 7.5 year old game. Look at our expert insight. It's not like 5 years of development change, and what worked and didn't work in Halo 3 had anything to do with it right?

I think Halo 3 is just the easy punching bag, these same people saying H4 over H3 would probably prefer playing H4 over CE or H2 as well, but it's just easier to say inconsistent BR, slow movement etc.

At the time, Halo 3 may not have been Halo 2, but it was still a solid game, one that many of us played thousands of games of. The same can't be said for Halo 4, why?
 
I'd like Halo 4 more if it had descope, that alone will make me prefer 3 over 4.

When I'm tagging someone with a BR they need to re-position and rescope, not slightly move their crosshair and double tap me after eating 3 bursts.
 
Not a single Halo game on Live was great with the dev settings. It always took MLG to make them great from a competitive standpoint. I mean you dudes are still suffering through SMG/AR starts in MCC.

The BR is the problem for most people though, and yes it was random and screwy at times. I'd take shot leading though over point and shoot death machines like the DMR in Reach/4 any day of the week.

Halo 4 didn't have a single map that I would consider a classic, so that alone makes the notion of 4>3 crazy to me.

I disagree with your first point for the most part. However, I vastly prefer any other Halo on default or even team BR settings. Halo 3's Team BR is still rubbish unless you play with the modified damage and movement settings (which isn't in the MCC).

Haven is the only map I appreciate in H4.

Hey guys, this 2.5 year old game plays much better than this 7.5 year old game. Look at our expert insight. It's not like 5 years of development change, and what worked and didn't work in Halo 3 had anything to do with it right?

I think Halo 3 is just the easy punching bag, these same people saying H4 over H3 would probably prefer playing H4 over CE or H2 as well, but it's just easier to say inconsistent BR, slow movement etc.

At the time, Halo 3 may not have been Halo 2, but it was still a solid game, one that many of us played thousands of games of. The same can't be said for Halo 4, why?

Bullucks lol. Maybe for some, but not me. It's Halo CE/H2 first for me. I just really hate the feeling of Halo 3, cuz opinions.

I played A LOT of Halo 3, but even back then when it launched I was severely disappointed in the game. I still remember the day when MLG released their modifications to damage and movement and then I could cope lol(still missed CE and 2 though).
 
Not a single Halo game on Live was great with the dev settings. It always took MLG to make them great from a competitive standpoint. I mean you dudes are still suffering through SMG/AR starts in MCC.

The BR is the problem for most people though, and yes it was random and screwy at times. I'd take shot leading though over point and shoot death machines like the DMR in Reach/4 any day of the week.

Halo 4 didn't have a single map that I would consider a classic, so that alone makes the notion of 4>3 crazy to me.

I have to call bullshit. Dev settings for H2 burial mounts 1 flag/bomb, waterworks 2 flag/bomb, relic 1 flag, 2 flag The Pit, 1 Flag/bomb ivory tower, ascension or any asymmetrical maps etc the list if HUGE. All these dev settings and maps on live are the reason Halo got popular. MLG grew out of that, not the other way around. Let us be clear about that and not give rise to this shit fight once again.

It's great you love MLG and consider that the best and only way to play, good join that playlist or LAN events etc. Just don't try to claim MLG Halo is the best way to play the statistics in EVERY single Halo game online shows MLG is a good percentage in the old days and a small percentage in recent games when put against dev settings.

Crazy to me is playing just MLG settings and maps thinking it's the only way to play Halo. Come on dude BTB vehicles and 1 sided games in matchmaking with a party for me shits on MLG any day of the week. It's literally the divide of why you play Halo with who you do vs who I choose to play with. We can coexist just fine.

As for maps being better in the days of H2/3 vs. Reach/4 I can wholeheartedly agree with you on that. H5 beta maps felt more more like the former, which is good for all dev and or custom settings IMO.
 

Captain Friendo

Neo Member
I have to call bullshit. Dev settings for H2 burial mounts 1 flag/bomb, waterworks 2 flag/bomb, relic 1 flag, 2 flag The Pit, 1 Flag/bomb ivory tower, ascension or any asymmetrical maps etc the list if HUGE. All these dev settings and maps on live are the reason Halo got popular. MLG grew out of that, not the other way around. Let us be clear about that and not give rise to this shit fight once again.

It's great you love MLG and consider that the best and only way to play, good join that playlist or LAN events etc. Just don't try to claim MLG Halo is the best way to play the statistics in EVERY single Halo game online shows MLG is a good percentage in the old days and a small percentage in recent games when put against dev settings.

Crazy to me is playing just MLG settings and maps thinking it's the only way to play Halo. Come on dude BTB vehicles and 1 sided games in matchmaking with a party for me shits on MLG any day of the week. It's literally the divide of why you play Halo with who you do vs who I choose to play with. We can coexist just fine.

As for maps being better in the days of H2/3 vs. Reach/4 I can wholeheartedly agree with you on that. H5 beta maps felt more more like the former, which is good for all dev and or custom settings IMO.
Good post overall, I must say.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
This is why Halo sucks now

It's all your fault, kittens
BCK4ejt.gif
 

-Ryn

Banned
Thanks for sticking around to unruffle our jammies Frankie. Lack of split screen sucks, but you guys obviously didn't make it lightly.

On another note, sniping is hard. I keep overcompensating my shots and my screen looks like my Spartan is having a seizure in cqc sniper matches.
 

Tunavi

Banned
If you're complaining about no split screen and no lan, just play Halo 1. or 2. or 3. or 4. or Reach. or ODST. or MCC. Shit.
 

Ramirez

Member
I have to call bullshit. Dev settings for H2 burial mounts 1 flag/bomb, waterworks 2 flag/bomb, relic 1 flag, 2 flag The Pit, 1 Flag/bomb ivory tower, ascension or any asymmetrical maps etc the list if HUGE. All these dev settings and maps on live are the reason Halo got popular. MLG grew out of that, not the other way around. Let us be clear about that and not give rise to this shit fight once again.

It's great you love MLG and consider that the best and only way to play, good join that playlist or LAN events etc. Just don't try to claim MLG Halo is the best way to play the statistics in EVERY single Halo game online shows MLG is a good percentage in the old days and a small percentage in recent games when put against dev settings.

Crazy to me is playing just MLG settings and maps thinking it's the only way to play Halo. Come on dude BTB vehicles and 1 sided games in matchmaking with a party for me shits on MLG any day of the week. It's literally the divide of why you play Halo with who you do vs who I choose to play with. We can coexist just fine.

As for maps being better in the days of H2/3 vs. Reach/4 I can wholeheartedly agree with you on that. H5 beta maps felt more more like the former, which is good for all dev and or custom settings IMO.

What good are map/gametype combos if I'm stuck with an SMG/AR on some big ass map? It took years before BR starts were across all playlists and modes in the games released prior to Reach.

I'm not a MLG fan, never watched the shit, but their settings were undeniably great.

No where in my post did I say MLG was the only way to play, so your point is lost on me. Bungie's track record at objective settings was pretty poor though.
 
I really, really wish a couple of posters in here who should know better would stop calling us liars.

It makes having discussions almost impossible. We PLAINLY stated this at E3 in several interviews, and if the 117 characters in Josh's tweet aren't detailed enough then say that. The idea that we are deliberately withholding that information is ludicrous. PR 101 would tell you that will blow up in your face.

There is NO reason to lie about it and we (once the final production decision was made) planned to discuss the fact and the reasons.

So instead of this being disappointment about a beloved feature going away, it's back to the usual repetitive cycle of hatred and rage.

I've personally done AT LEAST a half dozen interviews discussing this and the whys. I've also responded to a ton of Twitter threads on the topic. I don't decide what mags and websites print.

But for the love of god, just say you don't like the decision, instead of creating a sinister narrative. I can't even imagine the purpose of "hiding" that fact. We find out which features are included and which aren't as the constantly evolving production schedule and technology shift even as we work on the game.

We have to be careful what we do and don't commit to in speech and in writing, because things change. But this isn't one of those. This was something we stated plainly and apologetically. We knew going into the commitment to the entire engine moving to a 60fps backbone, that there would be compromises, and like any project, we had to weigh the benefits against the negatives.

Of course we'd rather we could include split screen, but the collection of factors we've talked about ad-nauseum means we couldn't.

It's not a plot. It's logistics and performance and technology and schedules and a hundred other factors, but one thing it is not, is a lie or a conspiracy.

As the game gets closer to final, we'll show off more, and continue to improve it, and share everything we can, and that sometimes means not having all the detail we'd like, because things are always in progress, but please just forget this bizarre notion that this is carefully orchestrated deception. That is a nonsense.

Splitscreen can melt steel beams.

In all seriousness, it's just a huge bummer, man. I don't buy into the whole "343 are playing us for suckers"-thread that seems to be popular nowadays, game development is a harsh business and sometimes decisions have to be made. But as I said, it's just a huge, huge bummer.

Playing Halo together on the same couch is the reason a lot of my friends bought Xboxes, upgraded to 360's, and were thinking about getting One's. At least one was already on the fence, considering the state the MCC is still in, and has now decided not being able to play H5 together is enough for him not to get one.



You're certainly better than I am. I would've missed those shots and somehow exploded from a plasma pistol shot to the back afterwards.
 

Akai__

Member

Fucking lol. That was pretty cool.

I'm going to assume I can still critique 343 decisions I don't like
and praise the ones I do
?

Oh no, nevermind, I am now teh bias.

343i devs are cool people, but I'm going to critisize questionable decisions, with keeping personal attacks out of there. I'm not a fan of the witch hunting we went through with Kevin Franklin for Halo 4 and with Dan Ayoub for the MCC. That's just a pathetic and cowardly thing to do and I'm really sorry for those guys.

Split screen for example affected my brother, so that's not cool. However, I'll just play through the game 1st and watch him play through it afterwards. Easy fix in this situation, even if this doesn't fix the actual problem.

Oh, and I don't understand the link? Links to a NY Times article? :p

Oh god, this BR is hard to aim and kill people with, what a terrible game!

Halo 3 MLG was the last good Halo experience we had, you people are insane.

Not a single Halo game on Live was great with the dev settings. It always took MLG to make them great from a competitive standpoint. I mean you dudes are still suffering through SMG/AR starts in MCC.

The BR is the problem for most people though, and yes it was random and screwy at times. I'd take shot leading though over point and shoot death machines like the DMR in Reach/4 any day of the week.

Halo 4 didn't have a single map that I would consider a classic, so that alone makes the notion of 4>3 crazy to me.

What good are map/gametype combos if I'm stuck with an SMG/AR on some big ass map? It took years before BR starts were across all playlists and modes in the games released prior to Reach.

I'm not a MLG fan, never watched the shit, but their settings were undeniably great.

No where in my post did I say MLG was the only way to play, so your point is lost on me. Bungie's track record at objective settings was pretty poor though.

At least one thing we can agree on.

It's funny how every single Halo game can be improved significantly with a coupple of settings, yet Bungie and 343i were/are repeating the same mistakes for 11 years(?) now.
 
343i devs are cool people, but I'm going to critisize questionable decisions, with keeping personal attacks out of there. I'm not a fan of the witch hunting we went through with Kevin Franklin for Halo 4 and with Dan Ayoub for the MCC. That's just a pathetic and cowardly thing to do and I'm really sorry for those guys.

Split screen for example affected my brother, so that's not cool. However, I'll just play through the game 1st and watch him play through it afterwards. Easy fix in this situation, even if this doesn't fix the actual problem.

Oh, and I don't understand the link? Links to a NY Times article? :p.
Agreed on all counts, especially personal attacks.
Responsibility does generally fall on those higher up and those who choose to represent the product, so I understand being critical, but attacking them serves no one.

(linking the article was a joke about me now being biased, I work for AOL, we're kinda taking over their display ad business, like ads on the Xbox)
 

Overdoziz

Banned
lol ozzy
For every halfway decent gametype 343/Bungie manage to poop out we get a dozen 4v4 KotH on Valhalla's, 10 second flag recover timer on Midship's, or 5v5 Neutral Bomb with 5 second arm timer on Sanctuary's.
 
To look at the positive of the no split screen thing:

No guests is going to be great
everyone will be on an even playing field (no wider splitscreen FOV or lower splitscreen framerate)
Halo 5 tournaments will never have splitscreen rounds
 

willow ve

Member
To look at the positive of the no split screen thing:

No guests is going to be great
everyone will be on an even playing field (no wider splitscreen FOV or lower splitscreen framerate)
Halo 5 tournaments will never have splitscreen rounds

The biggest negative is no Halo parties. Seriously doubt you'll get 16 people to lug all of their gear (including their own personal TV) to the basement. Not that LAN even really works.
 

m23

Member
To look at the positive of the no split screen thing:

No guests is going to be great
everyone will be on an even playing field (no wider splitscreen FOV or lower splitscreen framerate)
Halo 5 tournaments will never have splitscreen rounds

I'll miss using guests as easy targets to boost my kill count.
 

blamite

Member
Vanilla Halo 4 > H4 Turbo and that's a #truthfact

(In terms of weapon balance and movement I mean, obviously vanilla ordnance was terrible and the maps were improved in Turbo as well)
 

blamite

Member
You do remember the DMR right? Right???
okay okay, there were one or two improvements. But I stand by the greater point!

I just vastly prefer the pace of gameplay the old movement speed and 5-shot BR created. Turbo to me feels like 343 pandering to a segment of the competitive community by making the game faster even though it made everything feel really slippery and hard to control.

H4 was never going to be able to be a truly successful competitive game but Turbo always just felt like greasing up a square peg to try to smash it through a round hole.
 
Any chance Reach gets remastered and added to MCC like with ODST?

Not anytime soon, more than likely. Reach represents an entirely new engine they're required to port (ODST was already using 3's comparatively and still didn't ship with Firefight), and I seriously doubt 343 could manage porting over Campaign, Firefight, Custom Games and Forge without breaking the MCC again. It's too ambitious a port job for them at this point, especially with H5G so late in development. At least with backwards-compatability coming it'll happen.
 

Montresor

Member
Oh man, slightly disappointed at the Nos but very relieved to see an overwhelming consensus among those responses. That makes my decision easy.

I'm starting MCC soon, and if there truly will not be any Reach with MCC any time soon, then I'll be sure to play MCC in this order: 1, 2, 3, ODST, play 360 version of Reach, then back to 4.
 

gAg CruSh3r

Member
Honestly, I don't mind the no split screen to a degree. I totally understand for MP to use no split screen. It will bring the best frame rate and resolution it can to the table for Halo 5. I just wish you can at lest split screen for campaign tho. I been going though most of the Halo campaigns with my wife. I would not mind if they can just drop the frame rate or anything to make it work. Even if it's just two player co-op. That just my opinion.

I'm sure we can make do with whatever 343 decides to do.
 
When I want to resume my Master Chief Saga playlist at The Armory from Halo 2, it loads up the second mission from Halo CE instead. It's always cool when your progress resets.

giphy.gif
 

dwells

Member
I was going to stay completely out of all this since everything I say gets dismissed as "salt," etc. but I'm gonna chime in once.

I'm not a fan of the witch hunting we went through with Kevin Franklin for Halo 4 and with Dan Ayoub for the MCC. That's just a pathetic and cowardly thing to do and I'm really sorry for those guys.
Is it really fair to refer to people being upset with Dan Ayoub as "witch hunting?" I mean, when you have someone promoting a game and repeatedly issuing statements which wind up being misleading or flat-out untrue, then disappearing literally days after it's revealed what a disaster the product is, only to surface months later when things die down and pretend like nothing happened so they can hype their new product.

It's pretty reasonable for people to be upset with someone who misled them into purchasing a knowingly-broken product and then dodging any sort of real accountability. Instead you've got Tashi stuck on the front lines trying to quell the storms of rightfully upset people. That's pretty shameful behavior.
 

Tawpgun

Member
I for one am glad they chose a smooth crisp, and larger single experience over compromising to splitscreen.




I used to play a lot of Halo splitscreen. It was fun back in the day. I think I tried playing Halo Reach/4 splitscreen a while back with a friend and I thought it was just annoying. You can't see shit, distracting. etc.

If you really enjoy couch co-op gaming or even couch pvp gaming there are a lot better options than Halo.

Sucks that a compromise had to be made, but I'm glad they went in the direction they did.
 
Are we expecting any new stuff out of Gamescom?

also re: split-screen: the quickening: it's times like these that make me glad Smash Bros. is the only real multiplayer game i ever play locally
 
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