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Halo: Reach Beta Thread

T

Teknoman

Member
Lunchbox said:
get better at the game
Click to expand...

I think the only problem there is that randoms judge your skill by character level, when really it just means you've played for a long time. In older games anyway.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Mr. B Natural said:
Stuff like this rating system worries me that I'll be tired of Reach as quickly as Halo 3. Bungie's got too loud of a minority fanbase that treats this game like some psuedo-sport (which it isn't and never will be.) If anything, Halo was the definitive casual fps. Just get some friends over and play and watch the hours disappear. That's what made it such a super hit 10 years ago.

People play games for fun. Matchmaking should be fast first, and concerned about "balance" later. If I want to leave after the game because the game isn't balanced enough for my enjoyment, then I will leave on my own behalf. I don't need mr. computer to do that for me. What I need is mr. computer to get me in a game asap so i can have fun.
I don't need mr. computer to give everyone incentive to take this crap too seriously. It's a game. Don't put emphasis on what number rank I am or whatever. Being good at the game should be reward enough for being good at the game. At most, give me a pat on the back, an aesthetic reward, the ability to save my amazing "skillz" in a file when I do good. Go ahead and give me incentive to have fun...not incentive to take the game too seriously (not fun). If I want to start a league or clan and take it to the next level of competitiveness, I will.

Halo 1 is still my (and a lot of people's) favorite halo game. One thing that made it so great is that it didn't count anything. You played with your friends, you had fun. It was as competitive as you want it to be, not what bungie thinks you think it should be.

And before people say "well, you don't have to pay attention to rank/league"...yes, you kinda do. Even if you don't, too many people you play with certainly will. It's the only number that defines you when you play the game. Imagine in COD (or any game for that matter) your KDR was put right in front of your name in a matchmaking lobby and everyone else can see your stats with one button press. What would happen? People will start to take their KDR super seriously...even moreso than usual. It's completely psychological. This is Xbox Live here. People take games seriously enough without your data being flaunted. Your stats are what define you in Halo and has made it a worse game.
Click to expand...

Well everyone finds fun from different things, the amazing thing about Halo is that fact that some people can get pleasure out of making crazy maps, some can have fun messing with the physics and some can have a lot of fun treating it as a pseudo sport (which it does extremely well). Why do you say that Halo is the definitive casual FPS? The Graphics and look of the game? From a gameplay perspective Halo is very unforgiving and is very competitive, it’s also very well balanced for competition.

Just because you only enjoy the crazy side of Halo doesn’t mean that your opinion is universal. Providing the KDR and stuff just helps people who play it more competitively, they would still play just as competitively without that stuff. Halo 1 had a MLG circuit and that game didn’t show stats and have ranks.

P.S. CoD does show you stuff like your K/D ratio at a button press.
 
S

Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
Been sick again for the last couple days, so I haven't been posting right away, but I've been watching the video goodness from all the hands-on from the big sites - and good job on crashing GiantBomb for most of the day when I wanted to watch their video again yesterday - tons of mis-information and all... :lol

Gonna check out that ad now... :D
 
D

Dirtbag

Member
Saw the ad.
It wasn't what I'd consider a good ad, nor what I would consider a bad ad.

It was pretty to look at, but didn't excite me in any real way.
By comparison to the other ads they've done, it was easily the weakest of the Halo adverts.
 
K

Kapura

Banned
chess said:
It will be interesting to see how everyone's perceived opinions change after next week. The game will play a bit differently and the way ranking and MM work has mostly no relation to previous games. I look forward to discussing legitimate concerns.

ps Don't nerf the needle rifle!
Click to expand...
Overstatement. Matchmaking, as I understand it, will continue similarly to the way it has in the past, especially on the social side. There are, of course, the new social preferences of playstyle (lone wolf, team player, chatty, silent) but those are simply another layer on top of the strong Halos 2 & 3 foundation. It seems the only thing they are handling differently will be the ranking. Skill rank is no longer an arbitrary number once you get into a league. You are seeing how well you personally play compared to all of those around you. There is no cap on skill, you simply become the best of the best, the top 1% of your league.

It also appears that exp-per-playlist ranks have been transformed into an overall military rank which is based on your credits. This means that a person who loses every game, and would therefore have gotten no exp in the old system, will still earn credits and be able to rank up. It might take longer than a guy who dongs on the throngs with his trusty DMR and sidearm, but the progression is still there. Very clever.
 
P

Photolysis

Banned
Mr. B Natural said:
Stuff like this rating system worries me that I'll be tired of Reach as quickly as Halo 3. Bungie's got too loud of a minority fanbase that treats this game like some psuedo-sport (which it isn't and never will be.) If anything, Halo was the definitive casual fps. Just get some friends over and play and watch the hours disappear. That's what made it such a super hit 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

You do realise that both hardcore and casual players can have fun at the same time, right? It's not mutually exclusive.

If I want to play real competitive matches in the Arenas, and you just want to chill with some friends in a social playlist and don't really care too much about who or what you play, how does what I do impact you? Unless you have some really weird psychological condition, it shouldn't affect you in any way.

If you don't care about ratings or stats, ignore them. If you don't want to care but can't stop yourself because they're "flaunted", that's your problem.
 
B

BladedExpert

Member
Kapura said:
Overstatement. Matchmaking, as I understand it, will continue similarly to the way it has in the past, especially on the social side. There are, of course, the new social preferences of playstyle (lone wolf, team player, chatty, silent) but those are simply another layer on top of the strong Halos 2 & 3 foundation. It seems the only thing they are handling differently will be the ranking. Skill rank is no longer an arbitrary number once you get into a league. You are seeing how well you personally play compared to all of those around you. There is no cap on skill, you simply become the best of the best, the top 1% of your league.

It also appears that exp-per-playlist ranks have been transformed into an overall military rank which is based on your credits. This means that a person who loses every game, and would therefore have gotten no exp in the old system, will still earn credits and be able to rank up. It might take longer than a guy who dongs on the throngs with his trusty DMR and sidearm, but the progression is still their. Very clever.
Click to expand...

Very clever indeed. A step in the CoD direction, without having unlocks that change the game. I wonder if its enough to bring the CoD masses back to Halo though.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Photolysis said:
You do realise that both hardcore and casual players can have fun at the same time, right? It's not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Part of what's great about Halo is that it's malleable and mutable enough to offer a range of very different experiences.

...which is only a problem when people start to claim one aspect of Halo as the definitive one.
 
S

squidhands

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Exactly. Part of what's great about Halo is that it's malleable and mutable enough to offer a range of very different experiences.

...which is only a problem when people start to claim one aspect of Halo as the definitive one.
Click to expand...
Well, it's a good thing no one here does that. One big happy family.
 
N

Nutter

Member
Popeck said:
A weapon inferior to Assault Rifle.
Click to expand...
20tp5oj.jpg
 
K

Kapura

Banned
i dunno guys dual spikers is the absolute epitome of skill. With a spread like that, only true heroes can consistently kill their enemies.
 
M

Major Williams

Member
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
Every time they show a Spartan its bullshit, In the graphic novel they show a female spartan
with long hair and lipstick on same happens in the Halo anime,
The fall of Reach style Spartans just wasn't presentable enough so now the idea of being a ugly tool of war that had a life of sacrifice forced upon them has been retconned to a bunch of cool dudes and hot chick who love them some kill'n.
Click to expand...
Read the lot of replies and felt the need to address this one:

1. The female spartan in the graphic novel was retired. No regulation hair growth there.

2. The anime was purely the work of interpretation, all of the children could very well have shaved heads (or a little bit of hair), but for this surgery in the ad, a shaved head was obviously needed.

That whole detail was done relatively well I thought.

Someone's post about how we only get to see a tiny tiny part of everything that happens in the trailer is well put - I relaxed, had faith, and watched with hopeful eyes. It was not terrible, but it was not the same level of canonical, sci-fi, and dramatic effect as the previous ads had put the bar at.

We just have no frames of reference for time, motive, orders, stress, etc, so it is hard to care to be a part of Noble team.
 
D

dilatedmuscle

Member
I started playing Halo 3 again and i have been slightly gravitating to the Pistol lol i pull it out once in a while, I prolly got more kills with the pistol yesterday then the entire time ive played Halo 3. I cant wait until the gun actually becomes useful!!!
 
W

Warm Machine

Member
I don't think an ad for a game can be considered canon. That said it was well photographed and designed as an ad. My personal interpretation of the transformation as written in the books was that it was an incredibly stressfull and error prone process. The Wolverine transformation in Wolverine is more like what I was thinking but without the water and a cleaner facility.
 
StUnNeR H2K

StUnNeR H2K

Member
I usually don't make big post in here, but Mr. B Natural made a excellent post that had some points that have been sitting in the back of my mind...

Mr. B Natural said:
Stuff like this rating system worries me that I'll be tired of Reach as quickly as Halo 3. Bungie's got too loud of a minority fanbase that treats this game like some psuedo-sport (which it isn't and never will be.) If anything, Halo was the definitive casual fps. Just get some friends over and play and watch the hours disappear. That's what made it such a super hit 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

Yes I miss the Halo CE LAN party days... things were serious when we got together to play, but the atmosphere was casual. I don't like how the game is treated like a sport either, cause it does take away from the fun when you make it so competitive. I don't play video games for a competitive thrill, and the majority of console owners don't, I personally have enough competition to deal with in my job that I don't want to come home and have to deal with more of it... especially from some 10 year old kid with irresponsible parents.

Mr. B Natural said:
People play games for fun. Matchmaking should be fast first, and concerned about "balance" later. If I want to leave after the game because the game isn't balanced enough for my enjoyment, then I will leave on my own behalf. I don't need mr. computer to do that for me. What I need is mr. computer to get me in a game asap so i can have fun.
Click to expand...

Matchmaking in my opinion is what has killed gametypes like Big Team Battle due to the long wait to find a game. Everyone can complain about lag, but most of the BTB games I played were fine and only a few were really bad, due mostly to poor host selection because of a limited pool of people to pick a host from due again to the long wait for games. I was so upset to see ranked BTB go away in both Halo 2 & 3, cause when it went to social you pretty much are required to roll with a full crew or expect to have half your team quit... and the guest option is a waste of space IMO.

Mr. B Natural said:
I don't need mr. computer to give everyone incentive to take this crap too seriously. It's a game. Don't put emphasis on what number rank I am or whatever. Being good at the game should be reward enough for being good at the game. At most, give me a pat on the back, an aesthetic reward, the ability to save my amazing "skillz" in a file when I do good. Go ahead and give me incentive to have fun...not incentive to take the game too seriously (not fun). If I want to start a league or clan and take it to the next level of competitiveness, I will.
Click to expand...

I think the new system with selecting options for the type of player you are is better than the ranking, cause I do think the majority of the population or at least the ones I originally played Halo CE with play this game for FUN. Out of the 16+ people I know from my Halo CE days, not one of them still plays Halo, the Halo 2 & 3 online experience killed it for them and any attempt at a LAN party always fails because they are playing other games online.

Mr. B Natural said:
Halo 1 is still my (and a lot of people's) favorite halo game. One thing that made it so great is that it didn't count anything. You played with your friends, you had fun. It was as competitive as you want it to be, not what bungie thinks you think it should be.
Click to expand...

Halo CE was innocent... everyone who played it, enjoyed it in their own little world. XBOX Live introduced us to the assholes of the world that play video games to compensate for other short comings in their life. Yes you can avoid these people by muting them or playing with friends, but sometimes if you really have the itch to play you have to play with those people.

Mr. B Natural said:
And before people say "well, you don't have to pay attention to rank/league"...yes, you kinda do. Even if you don't, too many people you play with certainly will. It's the only number that defines you when you play the game. Imagine in COD (or any game for that matter) your KDR was put right in front of your name in a matchmaking lobby and everyone else can see your stats with one button press. What would happen? People will start to take their KDR super seriously...even more so than usual. It's completely psychological. This is Xbox Live here. People take games seriously enough without your data being flaunted. Your stats are what define you in Halo and has made it a worse game.
Click to expand...

I honeslty love the stats feature on Bungie.net. Showing stats at the end of the game is cool too (Halo CE did it at much more limited scope), but I agree with the example of throwing KDR up and what kind of affect that would have. The ranks in Halo 2/3 really killed the fun at times, ultimately keeping them hidden would be the best solution or going to a simple system like other games where your rank is more a veteran label then a skill label.


As of late I've been paying a lot of Battlefiled: Bad Company 2, and while I love the single player campaign due to the very dynamic and real-world like characters the multiplayer is why I bought the game. The huge plus to Bad Compnay mutliplayer is how fast games are pulled together, yes you keep playing with the same people over and over, but if you don't like someone on the other team or your team you just leave and spool up for another game. You have zero downtime and that makes the hours fly by and you really get lost in the games. Halo on the other hand... even in social matchmaking you have the possible 1-3 and even sometimes 5-10 min breaks between games where you are "searching" for a match. That kills the flow and ends up making people look at the clock and realize "oh crap it's midnight, I need to go to bed" or "wow... I wasted 30-45 min tonight just searching for a game to play".

I'm still going to play Halo either way. I love the gameplay and the visual style, but ultimately the amount of time I spend playing it depends on what my friends are doing. I'm not going to go dig my head in the sand and play Halo without my friends when they are playing Battlefield, CoD or whatever the flavor of the month game is.

I just hope that XBOX Live finally decides to allow the friends list size to increase, because I'm picky about who I add to my list, but most everyone else I try to add who I enjoy playing Halo with seems to have a full friends list... :(

I will add one more thing... the greatest Halo online experience I ever had was during the early access Halo 3 Beta. I was lucky enough to pick up a F&F invite and those first few days were amazing... it was like Bungie magically weeded out all the jerks and hand picked all the awesome people. When the games ended and someone just destroyed us you always heard laughs about what happen and both teams saying "great game"... that to me is what the Halo experience was all about back in the old LAN party days and it happened online!
 
C

Chinner

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
So, here's my understanding of how the Arena seasonal model works. Someone tell me where I'm off.

Arena Seasonal Division Model

Flowchart reads from left to right.
Click to expand...
looks right to me? How I figured it was once you were in a division, you would be stuck in it for that season. Playing more games will only change your position in that division, not actually move you out.
 
S

Subtervotion

Member
Halo 1 LANs were the greatest. I remember our CTF games could last hours, and every minute of that hour was fun. Custom game server list would go a long way in Halo. H2 was supposed to have one. Sometimes I want to just have fun and play Zombies. I know Bungie has a reason for not adding custom game servers, but does anyone else miss them?
 
N

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Church RvB said:
Halo 1 LANs were the greatest. I remember our CTF games could last hours, and every minute of that hour was fun. Custom game server list would go a long way in Halo. H2 was supposed to have one. Sometimes I want to just have fun and play Zombies. I know Bungie has a reason for not adding custom game servers, but does anyone else miss them?
Click to expand...

Really, who doesn't miss them? I loved Halo 1 LANs and playing over XBC, the best days of Halo for me.
 
S

Subtervotion

Member
GhaleonEB said:
So, here's my understanding of how the Arena seasonal model works. Someone tell me where I'm off.

Arena Seasonal Division Model

Flowchart reads from left to right.
Click to expand...

I don't know if anyone said this, but i believe the reason 'every game counts' is because it affects your trueskill. Which in turn means a 1700 at lvl 25 is not as good as a 1700 at lvl 50. So basically what I'm saying is, if you get three great games (1700 average) at lvl 40, then you loose a bunch of games and go down to lvl 30, and score 1800 a few times, it's not helping as much as you think it is. Could this be the case?
 
B

BenzMoney

Member
So I think I remember reading somewhere that armor abilities aren't available while you're holding an objective (flag/oddball) - can anyone confirm?

What about using Armor Lock in a KOH game while in the hill? Is that possible? What about Camo while in the hill? Is that possible? Here's hoping that Bungie doesn't allow Armor Lock and Camo loadouts on KOH games... and if they do, that Sage eventually nerfs it. :lol
 
S

Syracuse022

Member
Ghaleon, I thought Luke was saying that it had to be drastic but that if your TrueSkill (which takes into account performance on other playlists) made it clear that outlier-type performances were affecting your daily ratings, you would be lowered, as well. Hence his statement that all games have the potential to lower your standing.

It's likely just one more measure to keep kids from selling accounts. It's also just one more arrow on the flowchart, but I thought I'd point out the system as I currently understand it.

Edit: Basically what Church said above. Preach. Like I said, though, it's just one more arrow that's informing divisional placement.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Chinner said:
looks right to me? How I figured it was once you were in a division, you would be stuck in it for that season. Playing more games will only change your position in that division, not actually move you out.
Click to expand...
That's what I thought before Luke filled in some blanks for me yesterday.

LukeSmith said:
You'll see then, and you will be able to move between divisions and when it happens you'll see the icon next to your name change. We saw people drop from Gold to Bronze and people jump from Bronze to Gold during the internal alpha and beta.

It's entirely possible that when Kylej thinks he's Onyx three days in, brags about it here and then goes and generates high DPM in Grab Bag for the rest of the preseason that he comes back and is lower.
Click to expand...
So subsequent play, in addition to population shifts changing your relative standing, can affect both intra-Divisional standing and the Division you land in. Which makes sense: you don't want the first three Daily Ratings to define what Division you're in. It should be a comprehensive rating based on entire Season.
Church RvB said:
I don't know if anyone said this, but i believe the reason 'every game counts' is because it affects your trueskill. Which in turn means a 1700 at lvl 25 is not as good as a 1700 at lvl 50. So basically what I'm saying is, if you get three great games (1700 average) at lvl 40, then you loose a bunch of games and go down to lvl 30, and score 1800 a few times, it's not helping as much as you think it is. Could this be the case?
Click to expand...
Read this post:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21004772&postcount=5236

I said every game counts for TrueSkill, but only Daily Ratings - top three games on each qualifying day - affect Divisional standing. Luke corrected me to say every game affects your Division. Which breaks my understanding of how the model works completely.
 
Mizzou Gaming

Mizzou Gaming

Member
A bit off the main topic but is there any chance REACH will ship on 2 discs. The campaign on disc 1, multiplayer on disc 2.

I am no expert on compression tech and all that shit. I just call it like I see it, and I see a shit-ton of content coming along with REACH. I am still amazed they got all of HALO 3 on one disc.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
GhaleonEB said:
So, here's my understanding of how the Arena seasonal model works. Someone tell me where I'm off.

Arena Seasonal Division Model

Flowchart reads from left to right.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly how I invisioned it, but after what Luke said im not so sure. That diagram seems very logical though.

Church RvB if there was a custom game server you would probably end up in a lot of games created by hateful people who scream at everyone to follow a specific set of honour rules. A custom games browser would be horrible! It would be a lot better to just round up your friends and have a good old time lan in Halo 3, or just play only with your friends in Halo 3 custom games.
 
F

Falagard

Member
Chinner said:
looks right to me? How I figured it was once you were in a division, you would be stuck in it for that season. Playing more games will only change your position in that division, not actually move you out.
Click to expand...

From my understanding, a division is just a percentile range. So, if you're in the top 1% you're in Onyx division, if you're 2% to 10% you're in Gold, 11% to 50% you're in silver, etc. (I just made up those numbers).

In that case, you aren't stuck in a division for an entire season - it completely depends on how well you play and how well others play around you.

As a simple example - in the first hour of a new season you might be in Gold (the top 2% to 10% of all player rankings) because there wasn't much competition, but over the next few weeks you drop down to Silver.
 
C

Captain Blood

Member
Not a Jellyfish said:
Really, who doesn't miss them? I loved Halo 1 LANs and playing over XBC, the best days of Halo for me.
Click to expand...
Halo LANs were the shit but to be honest I don't think I have done more than four Halo 3 LANs since it's release.
 
O

Oozer3993

Member
BenzMoney said:
So I think I remember reading somewhere that armor abilities aren't available while you're holding an objective (flag/oddball) - can anyone confirm?

What about using Armor Lock in a KOH game while in the hill? Is that possible? What about Camo while in the hill? Is that possible? Here's hoping that Bungie doesn't allow Armor Lock and Camo loadouts on KOH games... and if they do, that Sage eventually nerfs it. :lol
Click to expand...

No holding any objective items while using an Armor Ability. You'll drop the item if you toggle the ability while holding it. I don't think there are any restrictions on what abilities you can use while in a hill. Bungie might decide to not offer Armor Lock in King of the Hill games.

P.S. Halo 1 on a college dorm LAN was gaming nirvana. Sidewinder CTF was pure bliss.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Mr. B Natural said:
(lots of stuff about Halo being fun instead of serious)
Click to expand...
This is exactly how I feel about Halo multiplayer too. Luckily I view the Arena as a giant whirling singularity that will suck all the ultra competitive players into its warm, stat-whore embrace...

... leaving all the rest of the playlists open to scrubs like me. ;p

TrueSkill is still used outside of the Arena playlists right?

I haven't kept up on every last scrap of info, but have Bungie dropped any hints of a new Firefight like mode? Co-op versus AI stuff? Or do you think that would be discussed along with campaign?
 
D

Diablohead

Member
GhaleonEB said:
So, here's my understanding of how the Arena seasonal model works. Someone tell me where I'm off.

Arena Seasonal Division Model

Flowchart reads from left to right.
Click to expand...
Good flowchart, I think a lot of people here are looking so much into it they are just confusing themselves.

And do people who say halo has lost it's casual side, don't play ranked and go play social or lan !
 
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