Quote
Member
Great summary.
I don't recall any of this Far Zenith stuff. It was something on the Odyssey ship that was destroyed, or is there a chance it's around Siris?
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Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
I don't recall any of this Far Zenith stuff. It was something on the Odyssey ship that was destroyed, or is there a chance it's around Siris?
I was speculating on it that the Odyssey made it after all and that the humans there where responsible for sending the signal that caused the issues with Gaia:
Ohhhh, that makes sense.
Maybe Odyssey didn't explode after all.
It could, but iirc in the hologram you see the signal coming from somewhere other then Earth. Have to rewatch it to be sure though.
I watched it again and it looks like its coming from above. I hope there's more evidence to be found in other datapoints hinting at what it could be.
Not sure but after entering the hunters lodge in meridian, right away I scanned some glyphs that basically predicted the future. It was stuff I had yet to do possibly a glitch? Sorry if this isn't the place to ask I assumed it was a spoiler considering it kind of spoiled me.
Yeah it's a glitch. :/
Darn, thanks for the reply though. Found it a bit funny since it details exactly what's gonna happen. ^~^
CarbonFire
Member
When Aloy finds Elisabet at the end just sitting outside in her suit in front of her home definitely gave me some feels.
Well she said she wanted to go home and she did
I wonder how she was able to make it there without being killed by the machines before she got there.
Hush now, its feels time, no sense in bringing logic into this
Honestly the best I could come up with is she hid until the swarm passed, and went undetected because she was in an environmental suit and the swarm was looking for biomass to consume.
andythinkpad
Member
When Aloy finds Elisabet at the end just sitting outside in her suit in front of her home definitely gave me some feels.
Well she said she wanted to go home and she did
I wonder how she was able to make it there without being killed by the machines before she got there.
I assume she wears a Ironman suit and can fly.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
It still blows my mind that someone at Faros industries went 'yeah, okay, let's make these super-nigh-uncrackable robots, armed to the teeth with modern weaponry, also able to self-replicate/perpetuate AND have a giant swarm mentality capable of operating independently.
Like, did they never have a terminator movie in that universe?
I did somehow miss the signal for re-activating the infected HADES being extra-terrestrial, though. I thought it was more implied that it came from somewhere else outside of the Colorado/Utah area.
But I suppose that makes more sense with regards to the derangement (and the more deadly robot dinos and sabertooth-i-mean-Ravagers) being more recent, rather than way back when the original inhabitants were released 700 years ago.
However, when exactly does HADES get 'infected' by the glitch in the system, then? If all the machines should have been dormant through GAIA's cracking the code for shut off during the 700 year time period, it's just that random extra-terrestrial signal that re-introduced the 'glitch' into being, and just so happened to infect HADES?
I'll have to re-watch the holo of GAIA explaining why she self-destructed due to HADES getting infected, I think. The timing feels weird, there.
Like, did they never have a terminator movie in that universe?
I did somehow miss the signal for re-activating the infected HADES being extra-terrestrial, though. I thought it was more implied that it came from somewhere else outside of the Colorado/Utah area.
But I suppose that makes more sense with regards to the derangement (and the more deadly robot dinos and sabertooth-i-mean-Ravagers) being more recent, rather than way back when the original inhabitants were released 700 years ago.
However, when exactly does HADES get 'infected' by the glitch in the system, then? If all the machines should have been dormant through GAIA's cracking the code for shut off during the 700 year time period, it's just that random extra-terrestrial signal that re-introduced the 'glitch' into being, and just so happened to infect HADES?
I'll have to re-watch the holo of GAIA explaining why she self-destructed due to HADES getting infected, I think. The timing feels weird, there.
CarbonFire
Member
Who has time to watch 70-year-old "movies"? They're not even on holovid!
And the answer? Hubris. In this corporate-run dystopic future that predates Zero Dawn, the corporations are basically running things (as is often the case with future dystopias). No time for oversight when there's profit to be made. Years of living in an automated future dulled the looming threat of rogue machines.
The swarm mentality was not expressly designed afaik, just a side-effect of them needing biomass as fuel, and the Horus being able to pump out Corruptors at a precipitous rate. I suppose the Horus would have had to be making other Horus though, because otherwise they could have stopped the "plague" by just nuking every Horus on the planet.
UnluckyKate
Member
So what are the Wichita Salient ?
In the first ruins you visit as kid Aloy and later on, it's looks like a Fallout Vault shelter and they say the Wichitia Salient failed so they are doomed, they will open the door for the one who wants to take their chance out there, and close it after, and all the other took pills to suicide.
From this, I though, its a salt (salient ?) based machine treating water or recycling air something essential to surival of the shelter.
But much later, in the Maker's End or Grave Hoard mission, you find a text about Zero Dawn and they say that Wichitia Salient falled (is it a place ? town ? location ? Line of defense ?) but it's okay becasue they just barely finished Zero Dawn.
So I'm confused.
We know there were Fallout like Shelters, the Elysium first, but other, they mention Fortune 5 vaults, etc...
Edit : also, I totally not understood what are the metal flowers ? They appears after the Derangement ?
Edit 2 : When Lizzy was with Faro in his office discovering the glitch, she, at some points mentions that " it's not a glitch" meaning it was deliberate coding or malware ?
It didn't say it exploded. I understand it as an internal leak. Maybe they all died when they tried to engage the drive but the ship made it and ping once it arrived...
In the first ruins you visit as kid Aloy and later on, it's looks like a Fallout Vault shelter and they say the Wichitia Salient failed so they are doomed, they will open the door for the one who wants to take their chance out there, and close it after, and all the other took pills to suicide.
From this, I though, its a salt (salient ?) based machine treating water or recycling air something essential to surival of the shelter.
But much later, in the Maker's End or Grave Hoard mission, you find a text about Zero Dawn and they say that Wichitia Salient falled (is it a place ? town ? location ? Line of defense ?) but it's okay becasue they just barely finished Zero Dawn.
So I'm confused.
We know there were Fallout like Shelters, the Elysium first, but other, they mention Fortune 5 vaults, etc...
Edit : also, I totally not understood what are the metal flowers ? They appears after the Derangement ?
Edit 2 : When Lizzy was with Faro in his office discovering the glitch, she, at some points mentions that " it's not a glitch" meaning it was deliberate coding or malware ?
It didn't say it exploded. I understand it as an internal leak. Maybe they all died when they tried to engage the drive but the ship made it and ping once it arrived...
wapplew
Member
Just finished, what a fascinating sci-fi story.
At first I worry about how they make a sequel almost every questions and answered. No more mystery hook.
Now I think the world itself is sufficient, lots of potential. One of the most interesting video game world.
So Gaia created Thunderjaw or what? She feel sad about Dino extinction, that's why she make them?
At first I worry about how they make a sequel almost every questions and answered. No more mystery hook.
Now I think the world itself is sufficient, lots of potential. One of the most interesting video game world.
So Gaia created Thunderjaw or what? She feel sad about Dino extinction, that's why she make them?
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
As I understand it (could definitely be wrong, though), the 'new' prehistoric-like enemies which have been sequentially showing up (especially ones with weapons on them) are part of the automated system's response after GAIA's self-destruction, though I don't know for sure if it's stated that this is due to either a response to the threat of HADES and the Corruptors showing up again, or just a general breakdown of what constitutes 'safe' machine building as GAIA's limiters on Hephestaeus are gone.
A salient is a fortification. So in Wichita, Kansas there must have been a last-ditch effort to hold back the swarm, but their fortification was overrun. I assume the first bunker you find was working on part of the project, but they weren't able to evacuate to a safer place, like Elysian, in time.
I wonder what happened to all the other subsystems of GAIA?
Conscience Falls
Member
There's actually a data log- not sure if it was written or audio- that ponders this exact thing. Something along the lines of "How could we possibly have come to this point after over a hundred years of pop culture obsession with the subject warning us."
Further, Gaia mentions feeling "Great and deep remorse" with the disappearance of Megafauna on earth. Thus, it's possible designs like the Thunderjaw were created by Gaia but not produced until after her disappearance due to the logical constraints inherent with trying to heal the earth with something as destructive as a robot T-rex.
I kinda thought that the Thunderjaw was basically a big earth mover used for decontaminated soil - it has big scoops that make up its jaws. Maybe they wandered around early on during the initial terraforming process and were decommissioned before humans were released.
They showed the Snapmaw was basically a huge water purifier and I think the birds were atmospheric cleaners.
Conscience Falls
Member
That would make a lot of sense, I'm still trying to fit everything into place but that would make sense to me. The ion (I assume it's ion) focus blasts acting the way they do would explain that to an extent. The Snapmaw I do remember seeing and fits in with her original plan in my mind so I imagine it was one of the originals.
Hush now, its feels time, no sense in bringing logic into this
Honestly the best I could come up with is she hid until the swarm passed, and went undetected because she was in an environmental suit and the swarm was looking for biomass to consume.
But...but...mah logic.
I could see that was what happened though. That's believable.
Lol. Honestly that would of been cool if she did.
it caught me off guard
Vanasha, lawd have mercy
------
Also, I wonder if her suit was designed with minimal gaps so they couldn't even sense her. Less than 2 mm?
I just really want to know if Apollo is able to be recovered at all through Gaia. Like she has to know a lot of that stuff right?
Finished this (with a platinum) today so I can finally join the discussion. Feel free to skip this madness as it is a lot!
I'm typically not a guy who focuses on story in a game, but this one sunk its hooks in me pretty quickly. Probably my favorite lore since the Resistance franchise.
Thoughts:
- Game looks AMAZING, even on the regular PS4!
- The variation of environments are insane!
- This is the first time I've thoroughly used Photo Mode in a game. The time of day tweak is great and really shows off the lighting engine.
- While initial concerned pre-release, I was surprised at the amount and variety of robot creatures. (Man, those Glinthawks were sure a pain in groups!)
- The progression of the machines was great. The first time I fought a scrapper was hectic. The first time I fought a group of snapmaws was even crazier. Then, Thunderjaws and Stormbirds!
- Sylens seems to be driven solely by the desire to acquire knowledge. I don't necessarily see him as evil. Although he is a lot like a modern day Faro, who keeps pushing technology and keeps adding danger and chaos into the world because of it.
Complaints:
- While I enjoyed the varied ammo options, I would have liked more weapon and armor options. It'd be nice to be able to switch to any ammo type with the same bow. I ended up favoring a bow with damage/tear/fire (because of those damn Glinthawks!) and rarely used freeze/shock/corruption. Tearblast arrows were nice, but the Tearblaster or Rattler got little use, and the tripcaster phased its way out later in the game so that I could use the blast sling.
- I never used the consumable traps, favoring the tripcaster instead.
- Playing almost all the side quests firsts, the characters were sometimes oblivious to my progress. For instance, the Hunters Challenge people kept telling me about the Lodge despite my membership.
- The Shadow Carja were confused by a slightly different costume with a mask? Could there have been a way to avoid the 'you HAVE to wear this armor' in Sunfall?
-Sometimes Aloy understood technology. Sometimes she was oblivious. I feel like she happened upon a whole other world far beyond her society's knowledge and was quick to grasp most of it. I guess she had Elizabet's intellegence, but still the elderly today struggle with the foreignness of a basic PC.
Questions:
I didn't collect/listen to or read every datalog, but I feel like I got most of them. Still, there are a lot of lingering questions that are either unanswered or I just missed:
1. What exactly was the first glitch with Faro's machines?
2. Why would they be so foolish to not include a backdoor to correct problems?
3. Machines that consume bio-mass was a good idea? Another weird decision. Why not something less destructive like solar power? One positive, if the rogue machines destroy all life, they run out of an energy source, so that's kind of a fail-safe.
4. Knowing how bad you bungled the entire project, and how dire the situation got, why would you then erase the history of that mistake from existence, as well as all other knowledge by destroying Apollo? Wouldn't it be better for the future to know not to make that mistake again?
5. Why was a mentally deranged lunatic put in charge of creating Hades? What were Travis' qualifications? Is he at fault for Hades actions and motives?
6. Why would GAIA allow Hades to invade her protocols if unwarranted? How exactly did a foreign signal accomplish taking over Hades and destroying GAIA? Where does something that advanced come from?
7. Where did existing humanity come from? How did repopulation occur? I believe Sylens mentioned that he wasn't from Project Zero Dawn...?
8. What are the blue things on Slyens' arms and chin?
9. Geographically and logistically, everything seems a bit weird. I assume the bunkers were built for Project Zero Dawn. Why various small bunkers housing the separate branches of GAIA instead of one large bunker? If the branches were dependent upon GAIA, wouldn't it be smarter to keep them together? I assume early machines built the multiple Cauldons themselves? What exists outside the area we explored? Did the single Spire communicate with the entire planet?
10. What killed or stopped the dormant machines: the corruptors, the behemoths that were unearthed at the end, whatever those giant tentacle creatures are called? Those giants are all atop mountains - so an Ice Age? Or at some point was all biomass completely destroyed and everything ran out of energy? If so, how would a new set of machines be created? Are the Cauldrons somehow self-sustaining? Don't they require materials collected by the machines? Do they communicate with GAIA to gain intel on the state of the world and created machines accordingly?
11. Scientifically, how does GAIA remain operational for so long? Self-sustaining power of some sort?
12. What gives the foreign signal or Hades the intelligence to attempt to take over GAIA? How does it acquire information from GAIA, like the fact that GAIA created a contingency plan with creating Aloy?
Granted a lot of these questions can just be answered with: It's science fiction. It's the future. But they give the sequel a lot of places to go and leaves many questions to answer.
There are a lot of great philosophical/existentialist debates with the story. It really made me contemplate what I'd do if I created killer machines. Or what I'd do with the entirety of human knowledge. Or how interesting it is that humanity could theoretically be wiped from existence and have to start over from basically the caveman days.
So stoked for a sequel! It's taken longer than expected, but I think we're looking at this generation's first amazing new IP!
I didn't even think about the practicality of the more dangerous robot types.
I'm typically not a guy who focuses on story in a game, but this one sunk its hooks in me pretty quickly. Probably my favorite lore since the Resistance franchise.
Thoughts:
- Game looks AMAZING, even on the regular PS4!
- The variation of environments are insane!
- This is the first time I've thoroughly used Photo Mode in a game. The time of day tweak is great and really shows off the lighting engine.
- While initial concerned pre-release, I was surprised at the amount and variety of robot creatures. (Man, those Glinthawks were sure a pain in groups!)
- The progression of the machines was great. The first time I fought a scrapper was hectic. The first time I fought a group of snapmaws was even crazier. Then, Thunderjaws and Stormbirds!
- Sylens seems to be driven solely by the desire to acquire knowledge. I don't necessarily see him as evil. Although he is a lot like a modern day Faro, who keeps pushing technology and keeps adding danger and chaos into the world because of it.
Complaints:
- While I enjoyed the varied ammo options, I would have liked more weapon and armor options. It'd be nice to be able to switch to any ammo type with the same bow. I ended up favoring a bow with damage/tear/fire (because of those damn Glinthawks!) and rarely used freeze/shock/corruption. Tearblast arrows were nice, but the Tearblaster or Rattler got little use, and the tripcaster phased its way out later in the game so that I could use the blast sling.
- I never used the consumable traps, favoring the tripcaster instead.
- Playing almost all the side quests firsts, the characters were sometimes oblivious to my progress. For instance, the Hunters Challenge people kept telling me about the Lodge despite my membership.
- The Shadow Carja were confused by a slightly different costume with a mask? Could there have been a way to avoid the 'you HAVE to wear this armor' in Sunfall?
-Sometimes Aloy understood technology. Sometimes she was oblivious. I feel like she happened upon a whole other world far beyond her society's knowledge and was quick to grasp most of it. I guess she had Elizabet's intellegence, but still the elderly today struggle with the foreignness of a basic PC.
Questions:
I didn't collect/listen to or read every datalog, but I feel like I got most of them. Still, there are a lot of lingering questions that are either unanswered or I just missed:
1. What exactly was the first glitch with Faro's machines?
2. Why would they be so foolish to not include a backdoor to correct problems?
3. Machines that consume bio-mass was a good idea? Another weird decision. Why not something less destructive like solar power? One positive, if the rogue machines destroy all life, they run out of an energy source, so that's kind of a fail-safe.
4. Knowing how bad you bungled the entire project, and how dire the situation got, why would you then erase the history of that mistake from existence, as well as all other knowledge by destroying Apollo? Wouldn't it be better for the future to know not to make that mistake again?
5. Why was a mentally deranged lunatic put in charge of creating Hades? What were Travis' qualifications? Is he at fault for Hades actions and motives?
6. Why would GAIA allow Hades to invade her protocols if unwarranted? How exactly did a foreign signal accomplish taking over Hades and destroying GAIA? Where does something that advanced come from?
7. Where did existing humanity come from? How did repopulation occur? I believe Sylens mentioned that he wasn't from Project Zero Dawn...?
8. What are the blue things on Slyens' arms and chin?
9. Geographically and logistically, everything seems a bit weird. I assume the bunkers were built for Project Zero Dawn. Why various small bunkers housing the separate branches of GAIA instead of one large bunker? If the branches were dependent upon GAIA, wouldn't it be smarter to keep them together? I assume early machines built the multiple Cauldons themselves? What exists outside the area we explored? Did the single Spire communicate with the entire planet?
10. What killed or stopped the dormant machines: the corruptors, the behemoths that were unearthed at the end, whatever those giant tentacle creatures are called? Those giants are all atop mountains - so an Ice Age? Or at some point was all biomass completely destroyed and everything ran out of energy? If so, how would a new set of machines be created? Are the Cauldrons somehow self-sustaining? Don't they require materials collected by the machines? Do they communicate with GAIA to gain intel on the state of the world and created machines accordingly?
11. Scientifically, how does GAIA remain operational for so long? Self-sustaining power of some sort?
12. What gives the foreign signal or Hades the intelligence to attempt to take over GAIA? How does it acquire information from GAIA, like the fact that GAIA created a contingency plan with creating Aloy?
Granted a lot of these questions can just be answered with: It's science fiction. It's the future. But they give the sequel a lot of places to go and leaves many questions to answer.
There are a lot of great philosophical/existentialist debates with the story. It really made me contemplate what I'd do if I created killer machines. Or what I'd do with the entirety of human knowledge. Or how interesting it is that humanity could theoretically be wiped from existence and have to start over from basically the caveman days.
So stoked for a sequel! It's taken longer than expected, but I think we're looking at this generation's first amazing new IP!
I didn't even think about the practicality of the more dangerous robot types.
Some of these were answered in data logs.
1. The implication was that Faro introduced the "glitch" himself so he could make even more money manufacturing weapons for humans to fight the machines. Sobeck threatens to expose him. He assumed there would be a backdoor to shut things down if the machines went rogue, but he was wrong.
2. He didn't want competitors hacking his machines. They talked about corporations fighting turf wars all over the world using machines.
3. "What could go wrong?"
4. He didn't want the new humans to have knowledge so that they couldn't repeat his mistake. He wanted to keep them "pure".
5. No idea
6. The signal overrode protocols and that's all that's known right now. Sobeck could override all of GAIA and her subsystems so someone else could conceivably have those codes too - my guess is Ted since he already demonstrated he can take over bunker controls and purge Apollo.
7. The humans came from the cradle facilities after the earth was repaired enough for them to survive. One of the creepiest parts of the game is learning that all those people were basically trapped in a pre-school for like 20 years until they ran out of food and had to be released outside - with no knowledge of anything. Thanks Ted!
8. Don't know. I assume HADES taught him how to enhance himself - or he's actually an Alpha level clone with some smarts.
9. I guess they thought a distributed system was safer. I think Hephaestus controlled the cauldrons. There are supposedly lots of cradle facilities all over the globe so lots of other tribes. There might just be one Spire since it was so close to GAIA but who knows.
10. GAIA sent a signal to deactivate the war machines - which makes me wonder if she could do that, why didn't Sobeck have her do it in the first place. I don't know, maybe she had to figure out how to do it. The metal devils are control units for the Swarm. They were shut down along with all the other war machines until HADES escaped into one. The cauldrons were supposed to produce machines based on what the terraforming needs were at the time.
11. Probably whatever she blew up her mountain with.
12. They are self-learning AIs. HADES doesn't know about Aloy until he sees her through that other guy's Focus.
Oh, and my husband made the comment that they are all idiots for giving Ted not only a place on the project but also top level access codes to everything. Because the one guy who fucked up the entire planet is the one you want to entrust that stuff to.
Elitist1945
Member
I believe at the time of GAIA's creation it wasn't possible to figure out a way to crack the code or whatever to shut down the machines, and that the machines would consume all biomass before it could be figured out. So they gave the mission to GAIA or another AI/facility since they'd be able to do it over time since they wouldn't die and would survive long after humanity.
That's what I thought, but it's odd they didn't already have AIs that could crack the war machines. Then in a year, they create one that can do it - someday. But whatever. I'm nit-picking.
kinda like how we got a man to the moon in the 60's when it seemed impossible, if you have enough money and brainpower problems can be solved in a hurry. I also doubt Gaia solved the code that quickly. I dunno if there was a note or log somewhere that gave any hint to that.
Elitist1945
Member
The present day also takes place, what, 1000 years after the machine's went rogue? Who knows how long it took GAIA to crack the code to shut down the machines.
Vincent Alexander
Member
The code they used was a polyphasing something something, so it was always changing and hard to crack. They said it would take at least 50 years to crack. One of the logs in the first areas is an audio log where the creator of the code gets in an argument with whomever orderee him to make it...maybe it was with Ted? It was the first internal discovery of the glitch, and the creator gets defensive saying "you told me no backdoor! And that it had to be uncrackable" or something.
Also, I don't think Hades corruption came from space. Hades itself wasn't an AI, and whatever did it turned it into a fully aware AI. My guess is the AI that ran the war machines did it...a kind of Skynet. They talked about special AI thay militaries would purchase to run the machines, like buying a brain for all your war machines. They said the AI was always learning, growing, and getting better. Surely many of those AI are still out there.
Also, machines eating biomass for energy was a last resort, Ted states. Only to be used if all other sources of energy aren't viable. We can possibly imagine that the machines could still harvest solar. Maybe just not enough? Or not as much as biomatter. Who knows.
That is my ramble.
didn't they estimate it would take them ~50 years? So probably something around there. What would be interesting is to see if Earth had to be remade more than once.
Basically I really wanna hear from Gaia
STILLethal
Member
Theory:
-Last scene we see Sylens saying "Your Masters for example, the ones that sent out the signal that woke you. Knowledge has its rewards, don't you think?"
-Odyssey never failed
-They were the 1s that sent the "alien signal" to awake Hades and ordered him to do the job he was designed for so they can come back to Earth
-"Knowledge has its rewards" Odyssey has the alpha-bulid of Apollo, they have the knowledge
-Horizon 2 = survivors (or the people that evolved from them) of Odyssey, who are far advanced now, come back to Earth and something something something
-Either that or Aliens.jpg
-Last scene we see Sylens saying "Your Masters for example, the ones that sent out the signal that woke you. Knowledge has its rewards, don't you think?"
-Odyssey never failed
-They were the 1s that sent the "alien signal" to awake Hades and ordered him to do the job he was designed for so they can come back to Earth
-"Knowledge has its rewards" Odyssey has the alpha-bulid of Apollo, they have the knowledge
-Horizon 2 = survivors (or the people that evolved from them) of Odyssey, who are far advanced now, come back to Earth and something something something
-Either that or Aliens.jpg
It was mentioned somewhere that turning off the machines would require a level of access that would take 50 years to achieve by means of hacking. Meanwhile, the world was going to end in months or weeks.
Edit: I've found maybe 3/4 of the game's logs. Is there any mention that maybe some (or hopefully) all of Apollo's info could be recovered? Or any mention of redundancy measures that, say, only GAIA or Elisabet could make use of?
why would they want the earth completely destroyed again though? if they had the tech to activate hades they had to have had the tech to see that the ecosystem was looking good.
I don't doubt your theory, though.
I haven't found anything that even hints that Apollo could be recovered, but I haven't found everything yet. They have to get GAIA repaired somehow because the terraforming system is degrading so maybe she can repair Apollo too.
Vincent Alexander
Member
2) Ted specifically asked something that was near uncrackable with absolutely no backdoor. In a datalog, the creator of this code was grumpy with Ted when he revealed to Ted (I think he revealed to Ted) that there was a glitch, because Ted kept asking him to fix it, get in through backdoor, etc.
3) They said them eating biomatter was a last resort, so it is possible they had a multitude of other methods to gather energy.
4) Ted was afraid that knowledge without wisdom was dangerous. Simply giving the new humans the knowledge would lead them to do terrible things again, and he didn't trust the wisdom to not do wrong with the information could be passed on simply through machines---machines that were the downfall of us all in the first place (he believed). Better to live in darkness.
5) Travis actually did a great job with Hades, because he specifically noticed that Hades sometimes didn't give control back to Gaia when it needed to. He also noted very interestingly that sometimes he made Hades too weak, and Gaia would pretend to not be in control to make Hades happy, and would still be manipulating things behind-the-scenes.
6) My only guess is something that advanced came from the AIs that already existed before Gaia to run the war machines, since they are constantly learning. They would have years extra over Gaia, so they could theoretically be smarter. And Gaia herself had no real protection from outside influence, as far as we know. She could be a pretty defenseless AI. Honestly, I find this to be a great weak point of Elizabet. They built all these subroutines, but never had a subroutine protector of Gaia.
10) The machines went dormant because they ran out of anything to eat. Their fuel went kaput and the atmosphere was completely gone, so they went into hibernation. Hades signal to them in the end is what brings wakes them from sleep mode. He uses the same tower (the spire) that was going to be used to broadcast the signal to shut the machines down.
Also, you see Aloy playing with her Focus a ton when she was a kid. It would make less sense to me if she discovered it as an adult and became adept with it. Also, we never really know what the thing is teaching her. Or what she is learning from it. There was the training montage of her younger, and during one part we see her resting in the cave...Fost looks over, and she has a wall of text up that she is zooming through. One more thing to help make sense why she was so good with it...Gaia asks Elizabet what she would like her daughter to be like (paraphrasing) if she had one, and Elizabet tells her she would like her to be, above all else, curious. Aloy had that in spades, which is why she played with her focus so much. And more than likely learned so much so well.
I personally don't think the signal came from space from this crew that survived, but I 100% believe they survived and Elizabet lied. One of the biggest reasons I think that is because Sylens is looking at that massive war machine, so I simply connect the dots in my head that he is talking about whatever AI used to run a massive thing like that. I still feel it was pre-Gaia war AI that made that signal. I think I'm going to boot up my PS4 to listen to the data log specifically about the AI that Faro created.
Yeah...I don't think it could be recovered. The data was completely wiped. It was a mere subroutine then, whereas Gaia was a whole AI that...umm...well...I honestly still don't understand how Gaia can be rebuilt. lol
I hope there's some way for humanity to recover the knowledge that was lost. Not only is it such a tragic loss (the very idea of it has stuck with me and got fully under my skin), but to regain that knowledge could prove very interesting in terms of the setting and gameplay possibilities in the sequels we can assume are coming. Each game could display a significant leap in technology from what was seen in its predecessor (or this could be done within the games, but that might be prohibitively expensive to develop), all within Aloy's lifetime.
Thanks. I did listen to a lot of these, or read about them, but they still leave a lot of room for questions.
4. The problem I have with this is it just seems to contradict all (real world) rational, human thought. We try to archive everything for the sake of humanity and history. It seems insane to just hit the reset button and lose so much good progress towards science, knowledge, and technology just because of one major mistake. Unless taught via the Cradles, people would have to relearn to make fire or create drugs to fight diseases. Life expectancy takes a huge step backwards. I don't think I'd ever make that choice, but I'm also not a power hungry trillionaire.
5. I think Travis was one of the most interesting and ambiguous characters. I loved that datalog that said something like, "I've modified my definition of deranged to include that if it comes from Travis I know it is deranged."
7. Sylens said something like he wasn't from where Aloy was. He could have meant just not from that specific cradle, or maybe there's more to it. With his unique appearance (the blue rings) and his abilities to modify/harness technology like the focuses and Hades maybe he isn't a human created from the cradle. I don't know if we met all 12 of the people who worked on Zero Dawn, but we didn't meet anyone who he was obviously cloned from. I need to dig further into the branches of GAIA and the personnel.
10. I missed this one. Odd. Still don't get how Hades manages to escape.
12. I wonder how he was actively looking. Voice recognition? Appearance? I'd assume he pulled Elizabet's info from somewhere within GAIA, so just how much other information could he possess? In theory, he could have stole all of the other AI's collective knowledge/protocols, essentially making him GAIA.
As for Ted having clearance, he'd be valuable consultant since he created the problem, but more importantly, when you have trillions of dollars that you can funnel into a project, you're probably gonna have high level clearance. I don't think Zero Dawn gets off the ground without his support. Seeing as how he didn't have enough control with the machines, he'd want control of this new project.
I also wonder if the guy responsible for the vantage point drops plays a larger role.
PuppetMaster
Member
Overall pretty happy with the story. It answered most pressing questions.
Over explaining the AI stuff is going to get them in trouble. Am glad they are mostly keeping it at a high level. That tech lvl should basically be explained as magic from our perspective.
But the ONE thing I reallt wish they had, is just one cut scene explaining HOW Aloy was moved from the birthing machine thingy to outside the door of the vault inside the temple. As far as I know this is never explained. Theresa just says they found here at the door and that was that. Some THING must have physically brought her there. WHO?
Over explaining the AI stuff is going to get them in trouble. Am glad they are mostly keeping it at a high level. That tech lvl should basically be explained as magic from our perspective.
But the ONE thing I reallt wish they had, is just one cut scene explaining HOW Aloy was moved from the birthing machine thingy to outside the door of the vault inside the temple. As far as I know this is never explained. Theresa just says they found here at the door and that was that. Some THING must have physically brought her there. WHO?
STILLethal
Member
They don't want to deal with the tribes, the machines, or the people there, maybe they're scared or are so evolved that they don't want to deal with anything that's already on Earth. They want to reclaim what's theirs, or at least think it is theirs, and just continue their evolution without any back ends. Idk, I'm just typing random chit right now lol
Yeah would be really interesting, they come through and bring some alien machines with them as well haha, would be interesting af
wapplew
Member
Lost of knowledge is tragic, lost of animal DNA too.
Earth become nothing at some point, maybe this new world is not the first Gaia attempt too, that really haunt me quite a bit.
Vincent Alexander
Member
For the question about why the code was so hard to crack, here is the beginning of the log where Ted is asking his "Code Expert" to crack it:
10) Hades existed on a network, so when that network was cut off from Gaia's explosion, he didn't necessarily escape---he was simply trapped, spread out wherever he was on the network at the time it came apart.
12) Hades was inside of Gaia (or messing around her) when Gaia set the plan into motion to make Aloy, which is why he corrupted the alpha registry to stop her from being able to get access to anything. Then Gaia got depressed for a moment when she realized this, then said fuck it...you'll find a way. I know Elizabet, and she won't give up.
There were servitors inside, so my guess is simply that one of them carried her out.
4) I think we're supposed to think that Ted has genuinely lost his mind with guilt, on top of other things, and is falling apart. Elizabet was one of the only people who kept him in check, and possibly sane, as one of the data logs revealed. He kept himself away from all the alphas, and in one short data log is talking to a passed away Elizabet about "addition through subtraction" and that he's discovered the answer. I think he just lost his marbles with guilt.
10) Hades existed on a network, so when that network was cut off from Gaia's explosion, he didn't necessarily escape---he was simply trapped, spread out wherever he was on the network at the time it came apart.
12) Hades was inside of Gaia (or messing around her) when Gaia set the plan into motion to make Aloy, which is why he corrupted the alpha registry to stop her from being able to get access to anything. Then Gaia got depressed for a moment when she realized this, then said fuck it...you'll find a way. I know Elizabet, and she won't give up.
PuppetMaster
Member
I thought the vantage point guy IS Ted
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