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[entremet]

Searched and I didn't see this posted. The link includes full audio of the talk.

http://kotaku.com/how-anita-sarkeesian-wants-video-games-to-change-1688231729/+marchman

By Stephen Totilo

For the last three years, Anita Sarkeesian has been talking about how women are treated in games and has slammed the widespread sexism she sees in the portrayal of female game characters. She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios. Her supporters cheer the idea that her influence may transform the medium; her critics fear that. They both infer a lot from her analysis of games, but at her NYU talk she left no ambiguity. She spelled out what she wants to see done, what she thinks game developers should think about doing differently.

Her list was brand new. "You get to be my guinea pigs," she said as she took to the podium in front of a couple hundred developers, game design students and gamers, "to see how this all works."

Near the start of her talk, she apologized for being sick and said it was the first time she'd been ill in two years. She fought back a bad cough throughout an hour-long presentation but frequently elicited applause or laughter as she spoke. This was a friendly and game-savvy crowd.

Totilo posted the eight things mentioned in the talk in the comments:

Shorter version, if you just want the list of the list of what she says are "Eight things developers can do to make games less shitty for women", paraphrased from my notes... not that a lot of this pertain to action games and probably make more sense if you're thinking about first and third-person shooters, the Arkham games, and stuff like that:

• Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
• "Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
• Have female characters of various body types
• Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
• Include more female characters of color.
• Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
• Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
• Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

 

[Nephtes]

This article was so long and her ideas were buried deep within the walls of its text...

The bulleted list she wants is actually not terrible.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I wish we heard more from women who are actually in the field.

 

[Ogimachi]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Whatever I was trying to reply to just disappeared along with most of this page.

 

[Aeana]

If your idea for contributing to this thread is to make a drive-by snipe about Anita herself, move on.

 

[Mael]

Can we stop discussing shit and talk about the article?

 

[Finale Fireworker]

The article is way, way too long and not good to read.

But the things she asks for are also really feasible and basic and I'm confused why people saying representations of unsexualized women is a bad idea above me. Like, what?

Animating women no differently than men is no different from something like the Last of Us does. People saying its stripping women of their femininity are assuming she is saying something she is not.

And people ALSO need to realize that her requests aren't saying games like Shantae and Bayonetta can never exist. It means OTHER representing need to exist too. Which they largely do not.

Edit: From below.

I respect her right to say whatever she wants, and I hate how gamers have attacked. i even agree with her on some things That said, her list comes across as a bit extreme. Instead of suggestions she comes across as demands.

So what if she's demanding? People who campaign for progress always demand it. They don't make "suggestions."

What she is asking for isn't censorship, and she isn't criticizing artists, she is asking artists to create different and healthier depictions of women.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

 

[KingGondo]

I wish we heard more from women who are actually in the field.

Isn't part of the problem that women are vastly underrepresented in the industry?

Besides, women like Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn have offered their suggestions too.

 

[SkeptiMism]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here?

Non-profit doesn't mean no salary.

 

[sir_roflcopter]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here?

that's your misogyny and male privilege talking right there. /s


Her ideas aren't inherently awful. She just tends to really stretch it when looking for evidence in video games to support them. Most people firmly entrenched in a worldview are like that.

Her producer is a loony tho.

 

[FriendlyGoat]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here?

This might surprise you, but people involved in nonprofits can still take home salaries.

 

[Slightly Live]

People who don't make games shouldn't be telling the people who make games how to make games, no matter the intent.

If she wants to see a difference, she should get her hands dirty and make the difference herself, lead by example.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I wish we heard more from women who are actually in the field.

I'm not sure badmouthing your workplace is the best thing to do to keep your job...

Still, there's plenty of anonymous reports from women developpers, and non-anonymous from ex-devs...

People who don't make games shouldn't be telling the people who make games how to make games, no matter the intent.

If she wants to see a difference, she should get her hands dirty and make the difference herself, lead by example.

Are you fucking serious? So no more game reviews, no movie critics, nothing? That's a... peculiar way of looking at things.

 

[Primethius]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

Pretty sure you can have a salary and still be a non profit.

 

[Vice]

The changes she suggests themselves are pretty sensisble. More realistic animations and less sexual grubting during combat for women aren't going to earth shattering differences, but work out well for the way women in games are presented.

 

[thewhitehawk]

I wish we heard more from women who are actually in the field.

Do you mean the ones who spoke out and in return received death threats and had to abandon their homes?

Or are you referring to the ones who are afraid to speak due to the way that female game developers are perceived by a very vocal, and very toxic, part of our community?

I think that some women have been speaking out, more so than ever before, as far as I can recall. If more women aren't speaking out, it's because of the reception of these first brave few.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

I work for a non-profit and they pay their employees. Non profit does not mean volunteer work.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

(Sorry Aeana, posted at the same time ^^)

Reading article now. And trying very hard not to click those annotated comments because I feel my IQ dropping every time...

Edit: thanks, Vince! Good summary.

 

[JeTmAn81]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

Taking a salary isn't the same as making a profit. Even people who run charities have to make a living.

 

[sir_roflcopter]

Pretty sure you can have a salary and still be a non profit.

Definitely...but the lack of follow through on the initial KS promises is kinda meh.

 

[entremet]

Added the 8 points of the talk. Totilo added that summary in the article on Kotaku.

 

[jschreier]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

This isn't really something that's up for debate. It's legally registered as a non-profit organization. This should help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization

 

[Mesoian]

Article is a basic synopsis of what she's been saying in her videos. More inclusion, more representation, don't struggle quite so hard to make women different from men when it comes to vocations, be careful when it comes to sexual violence, more body types all around instead of super model with weapons.

The one thing I didn't agree with was things like certain animations or designs for men and women being the same. I think that goes a little too far in removing femininity from characters in attempts at making them the same as everyone else. There's nothing wrong with a female character considering herself to be female, acting like a woman, even in times of crisis. The idea of paving over the idea of sexes and genders isn't the way to be more inclusive.

But yeah, Sarkessian business as usual. Kind of surprised that this was the thing Kotaku chose to cover.

 

[Ralemont]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

Good list. Everything there would be great.

 

[SkeptiMism]

People who don't make games shouldn't be telling the people who make games how to make games, no matter the intent.

If she wants to see a difference, she should get her hands dirty and make the difference herself, lead by example.

So nobody in this forum, or the world for that matter, should criticize any game? Because that's very, very similar.

 

[Angelus Errare]

ITT: People don't know what nonprofits are and how they work.

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

Great list through and through. I imagine some will still see this as an attack on their precious. They're idiots.

I hope much if not all of that list comes to fruition but knowing the videogame industry...we'll get like 2 at the most sprinkled over the course of years.

 

[RedRooster]

People who don't make games shouldn't be telling the people who make games how to make games, no matter the intent.

If she wants to see a difference, she should get her hands dirty and make the difference herself, lead by example.

Those who can, do. Those who can't....

But her list has nothing on it that I couldn't do without in a game. Its fine.

 

[Apath]

I see nothing wrong or unreasonable about the summarized points. Not only sounds fair, but will also go a long way towards making games more enjoyable.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I respect her right to say whatever she wants, and I hate how gamers have attacked her. i even agree with her on some things That said, her list comes across as a bit extreme. Instead of suggestions she comes across as giving demands.

"Don't make the enemies or villains hyper-sexualized," she said, "because again it creates a scenario in which violence against women is gendered and infused with elements of titillation. Violence against female characters should never be sexy."

I'm sorry, but if I'm a character designer and I'm paid for my views and my perspective I draw what I want within reason. This quote sounds very absolutist imo.

And I always side with the artists on this stuff, if you don't like don't buy it.

my 2 cents

 

[Opto]

Darn that Sarkeesian and her modest requests!

 

[Gestault]

Awesome (and well deserved) shout-out for Never Alone:

She praised Never Alone, a game featuring a female character from an Alaskan tribe. "It should not be too much to ask for for representations of people of color whose cultural backgrounds are acknowledged and woven into their character in ways that are honest and validating."

 

[besada]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here? Is this official or Stephen Totilo's input? Genuine question, I had no idea this was considered "non-profit".

I suspect you don't understand how non-profit organizations work, then. Non-profit organizations pay their employees salary. The difference between them and for-profit organizations is that beyond salary, excess profits are put back into the primary goal of the non-profit, rather than being distributed to shareholders.

Feminist Frequency is a registered U.S. non-profit charity that pays its workers salaries. And the number of videos put out in any calendar year have no bearing on that.

 

[The Kid]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here?

Non-profit means that her business organization does not pay out money to shareholders and pursue some sort of charitable endeavor (which promoting education of feminist studies clearly meets). Her receiving a salary has absolutely nothing to do with her nonprofit status from a legal perspective. Now there are laws (especially in the tax exempt world) that prevent people in nonprofit exempt organizations from taking excessive salaries. Even if those laws apply to her organization, considering she is the face of Feminist Frequency and likely does most if not all the work of the organization, I imagine whatever salary she takes is entirely reasonable.

 

[Moff]

all of them are good points to move the medium forward

 

[Mesoian]

Those who can, do. Those who can't....

Complain on Neogaf

 

[BennyBlanco]

"She's done this through a series of online videos for her non-profit, Feminist Frequency, and in lectures at conferences and even at some game studios."

Didn't she take half of the KS funds as salary and release only 2 episodes in 2014? What is the concept of profit being rejected here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)_organization

It's an educational not for profit. People are allowed to draw a salary, and they don't have to pay fed tax on the donations as I understand it. They also have their own patreon style donation system on their webpage.

 

[Nanashrew]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

Good list and I agree with them.

 

[Servbot24]

Sounds like a list of requests that any random decent person would have.

 

[TheSlySoul]

all of them are good points to move the medium forward

Indeed.
I like the bullets more than her videos honestly.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

I don't understand the bolded, does she mean to not have ass shots in cutscenes?

 

[Divvy]

Nope, can't argue with any of her points. They are all more than reasonable

 

[SpokkX]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

Is there really any intelligent person that would not agree?

I approve 100% at least

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

Some of those are really obvious, but it's an excellent list of things devs should try to do.

I have issues with Sarkeesian's video series, but this is a good list.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Here's the list:

Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, not orgasmic
Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies

Very reasonable.

R.I.P. Bayonetta

Pretty decent list, but I don't see the big deal with this one. There is nothing wrong with making characters look attractive - especially in fantasy universes.

 

[iMax]

Kind of a shame that this list needs to be compiled, really. These things should be a given.

 

[sir_roflcopter]

I respect her right to say whatever she wants, and I hate how gamers have attacked her. i even agree with her on some things That said, her list comes across as a bit extreme. Instead of suggestions she comes across as giving demands.



I'm sorry, but if I'm a character designer and I'm paid for my views and my perspective I draw what I want within reason. This quote sounds very absolutist imo.

And I always side with the artists on this stuff, if you don't like don't buy it.

my 2 cents

Really don't have much of a problem with the act of offering suggestions. It's the rage from people who assiduously follow her work when a dev or company doesn't fall in line that irks me. The GTA bashing that resurrects itself every few months is pretty amusing.

 

[MCN]

People who don't make games shouldn't be telling the people who make games how to make games, no matter the intent.

Welp, time to close down NeoGAF, then.

 

[Cat Party]

All 8 of those suggestions are no-brainers and won't detract from the games being made. We've already started to see improvement in all these categories recently. Except maybe body type variety. That's gonna be hard to change.