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[ibyea]

Yeah, I'm just highlighting the problem of letting one women speak for all. A lot of women like scantily clad women, and even the ones aimed at males. Their existence is not shitty for all women.

Also, I think it is important to look at Twilight. As far I've seen, it has been skewered by feminists, but you cannot deny it has massive appeal with women.

How would feminists react to a game with a similar plot and themes? Would they have the same complaints? Would they try to prevent it from being released as is? In doing so, they'd deprive the market of a game that would attract more women.

Not all women identify as femisists. If you are doing market research, you should listen to feminists, but you cannot just take their word alone.

The argument is not that shitty stories that still entertain people are not allowed. Furthermore, if one changed Twilight so that the romance didn't suck, it still would appeal to the same people, except that the story doesn't suck.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

There are many games that feature women zombies. Bethesda's games obviously have women enemies but not sure if that'd qualify as FPS. Bioware's stuff... actual military women? I do not know about that, I can think of ARMA where you can play as a woman character.

Metal Gear Solid 4 has women enemies in a military setting. I don't know what makes it so unappealing beyond double standards that people are trying to combat.

But of course, I don't think anyone should be off limits when given the proper context (or even without it depending on the purpose of the work). I wouldn't be opposed to fighting child soldiers either if those were the types of games I played.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I like Zelda.

But she's pretty useless.

Part of why I love Hyrule Warriors is she finally gets to kick some arse in game.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I like Zelda.

But she's pretty useless.

I wouldn't say that after the 16 bit era.

Ocarina of Time: VERY active role
Wind Waker: Active role prior to

Spoiler

transformation

(which I won't defend)
Twilight Princess: Active role
Skyward Sword: Okay, I'll give you that one.

Also, Hyrule Warriors.

 

[zeldablue]

I saw on twitter that the co-founder of The Astronauts (Vanishing of Ethan Carter devs) Adrian Chmielarz posted a piece about Anita. He seems to have a lot of criticism towards her work.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/top-ten-critiques-of-feminist-frequency-726979b690f1

I wish he would summarize what each video/article was about. :C

Part of why I love Hyrule Warriors is she finally gets to kick some arse in game.

I was very reluctant to play as her. But yeah, she's really great. I think I like Impa more though.

I wouldn't say that after the 16 bit era.

Ocarina of Time: VERY active role
Wind Waker: Active role prior to

Spoiler

transformation

(which I won't defend)
Twilight Princess: Active role
Skyward Sword: Okay, I'll give you that one.

Also, Hyrule Warriors.

I love Zelda in Ocarina of Time and Spirit Tracks. I can hardly stand her in the other titles.

 

[Cyrano]

I can't really disagree with much on that list. As a stickler for animation the one about people moving realistically is a definite big one. If someone is getting shot at they're not going to be sashaying their hips unless they're a crazy person.

I saw on twitter that the co-founder of The Astronauts (Vanishing of Ethan Carter devs) Adrian Chmielarz posted a piece about Anita. He seems to have a lot of criticism towards her work.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/top-ten-critiques-of-feminist-frequency-726979b690f1

I was dying laughing by the time he got to the second reason. Alternate reality? Is this guy for real?

 

[BobbyRobby]

Games similar to that already exist, but they tend to fly under the radar so barely anyone even notices - check out the entire Otome game genre. However, if they were just like Twilight, and they were more prominent, why wouldn't they garner the same kinds of criticism?

However, your assumption that feminists would try to keep it from being released is completely unfounded. How much effort was put into stopping the release of Twilight or Fifty Shades of Grey? Or towards the films? You're basically talking about an illusionary issue.

I don't think they'd prevent it from getting released. I think it's possible they may have some influence over it.

More than anything it is an example of feminist and nainstream female taste not matching up.

It depends if your goal is more women in gaming or more feminist women in gaming. If you want the former, you have to account for non-feminist women's taste which at times clashes with feminists.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Metal Gear Solid 4 has women enemies in a military setting. I don't know what makes it so unappealing beyond double standards that people are trying to combat.

But of course, I don't think anyone should be off limits when given the proper context (or even without it depending on the purpose of the work). I wouldn't be opposed to fighting child soldiers either if those were the types of games I played.

Child solders on the enemy side...yeah that could be one hella emotional game if done right. That's got to be one of the top ten targets no one outside a sociopath would want to pull the trigger on.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I love Zelda in Ocarina of Time and Spirit Tracks. I can hardly stand her in the other titles.

If you say so, but she does have agency in the plot beyond being a damsel in distress like she was in LTTP and earlier games.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I love how we're treating the word 'feminist' and 'feminism' like it's not inherent to all of the female gender. It would be like attributing 'masculinity' to just some men. You know, the bad ones.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I wouldn't say that after the 16 bit era.

Ocarina of Time: VERY active role
Wind Waker: Active role prior to

Spoiler

transformation

(which I won't defend)
Twilight Princess: Active role
Skyward Sword: Okay, I'll give you that one.
Also, Hyrule Warriors.

What part of OoT and Twilight Princess has her in active roles? She doesn't really do anything in either game. Unless you count showing up out nowhere to teach you a song and giving her life up for Midna. I mean I guess that's nice and all.

Spirit Tracks has her in a truly active role as your side kick and secondary playable character. But then again, they had to kill her off to do that cause apparently she's more useful as a ghost

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Child solders on the enemy side...yeah that could be one hella emotional game if done right. That's got to be one of the top ten targets no one outside a sociopath would want to pull the trigger on.

Well, Kojima is going to try it out in MGS5. If he goes through with it and you can potentially kill child soldiers.....then Kojima would be one of the only developers playing all the cards available to him(Frog Soldiers/BatB Unit/Meryl in MGS4 being probably one of the only times a female soldier is done right).

Can we crown Kojima as the equality king?

 

[Galactic Fork]

1)Yeah, I'm just highlighting the problem of letting one women speak for all. A lot of women like scantily clad women, and even the ones aimed at males. Their existence is not shitty for all women.

2)Also, I think it is important to look at Twilight. As far I've seen, it has been skewered by feminists, but you cannot deny it has massive appeal with women.

How would feminists react to a game with a similar plot and themes? Would they have the same complaints? Would they try to prevent it from being released as is? In doing so, they'd deprive the market of a game that would attract more women.

3)Not all women identify as femisists. If you are doing market research, you should listen to feminists, but you cannot just take their word alone.

1) It's not the existence, but the frequency. Before you say, "but it says'Dress female characters as something other than sex objects'" this means that it shouldn't be the default they go to and at least try to have a decent reason, because yes, so much reduction to sex objects is shitty for women (even those who like scantily clad women) because it sends the message that is a woman's purpose (especially in a climate where it is often felt there needs to be a purpose in order to make a character a woman).

2) You're working under the assumption that the details feminists objected to are what made it popular. Perhaps the sales would have been better. It would have won over the feminists. And Hunger Games sold significantly more than Twilight, with fewer books.
3) Can you expand on your point here?