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How do Atheist societies approach death?

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MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
I came from a religious family so I look at it like this. Once we're dead whatever beliefs we had don't matter. They only matter to those left behind and if it eases the pain of the living to believe the dead are somehow still in some for of existence then that's ok.

I'm what a Secular Apathiest or something?
Religion should not be used to influence a society, and I don't know if god exists or not and it doesn't really matter. Which goes deeper into what do you mean by a God? Technically, I'm a God to my cat and to women but I don't abuse that power.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
MidgarBlowedUp said:
I came from a religious family so I look at it like this. Once we're dead whatever beliefs we had don't matter. They only matter to those left behind and if it eases the pain of the living to believe the dead are somehow still in some for of existence then that's ok.

I'm what a Secular Apathiest or something?
Religion should not be used to influence a society, and I don't know if god exists or not and it doesn't really matter. Which goes deeper into what do you mean by a God? Technically, I'm a God to my cat and to women but I don't abuse that power.
Click to expand...

I'll give you a tip. No cat is seeing you or anyone else as a god. Those fuckers were once treated as gods themselves, they will never forget that.

Ants are the example you were looking for.

And yes, the whole heaven or hell thing completely falls apart once you think for a second more past getting there. Enternal sufferring? Fuck that. I'm going to make it my mission to take down Satan with my infinite time and infinite respawns. I might get tortured for millions of years at a time, but little by little my power level will rise. It'll be epic.
 
P

patapuf

Member
Monocle said:
I don't get this. The meaning is in the experiences themselves. It's weird to reduce the full range of human experience to perfect = boring, and difficult = miserable.

Struggles often lead to meaningful outcomes. And if you get tired of something in your long life, you can try something different. An extended lifespan would give you more time to pursue fulfilling experiences.
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I agree with you, i don't see struggles as a negative or pure misery.

However i wasn't looking at the afterlife as merely an extended lifespan, but an eternal one. Will i still have meaningful struggles in a 1000 years? 10'000? a million? Does anything still have weight and meaning in the face of infinity? I don't think so.

Others may disagree of course.
 
A

Amikami

Banned
Correctomundo said:
Speak for yourself. I find death to be a more depressing thing for those who can't accept it as an unavoidable aspect of reality. I grew up on a ranch. Death was a common, almost daily thing. It's always been there, and it honestly doesn't scare or sadden me in the slightest.

My fiance's mother died a few years ago. We were there with her in the room as she died. I could easily see the pain her other family members were experiencing, but it wasn't her death that caused me the slightest twitch - it was the pain those family members were in that made an impact on me. I can remember a clear moment when I could feel my fiance's utter pain, and it was well after the actual death of her mother. Her death did not impact me at all. I've seen that.

It doesn't frighten me to not exist. That old Mark Twain quote comes to mind. I keep saying this in every one of these threads, but I look forward to my death. I've never died before.

To me, death is just... there. Always has been. Nothing to be afraid of.
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You don't have to be afraid of death, but generally, the pain of a loved one dying is not caused by knowing that someone is dying, but the thought of them not being in your life anymore. I think it's a weird reaction to feeling pain only because you saw it in your wife. Just comes off as you not being as close mother in law. God forbid your wife were to pass, but if she did, don't you think there would be pain from this? Honestly just curious and not trying to negate or argue your feelings.
 
Biff

Biff

Member
I subscribe to death = eternal nothingness.

However, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm holding on to the hope of medical immortality.

Maybe I'm naive but I truly believe we are far enough along the exponential curve of technology that life-extending medicine will become a reality in my life. My goal, in the meantime, is to earn enough money to eventually be able to afford it.

I want to see what the world is like in 2200. I already struggle to imagine 2100. Another 100 years beyond then? I can't even hazard a guess, but I know I want to see it.

Perhaps this viewpoint is just as sad as someone believing in heaven... Holding on to hope of something that we currently have no evidence to support. Man could I be disappointed 60 years from now, lol.
 
Razzorn34

Razzorn34

Member
Yeah, pretty basic. I'll die and that's it. There is nothing after that, nor do I want there to be. I'll try my best to go without any regrets.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
I like to think about the laws of physics and how energy cannot be destroyed, so even when you die, the energy that helped you live, that made you you, will continue on in some manner or another throughout the universe until the end of time.
 
Correctomundo

Correctomundo

Member
Amikami said:
You don't have to be afraid of death, but generally, the pain of a loved one dying is not caused by knowing that someone is dying, but the thought of them not being in your life anymore. I think it's a weird reaction to feeling pain only because you saw it in your wife. Just comes off as you not being as close mother in law. God forbid your wife were to pass, but if she did, don't you think there would be pain from this? Honestly just curious and not trying to negate or argue your feelings.
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Perhaps, except that I've had close family and friends die before, and had the same lack of "pain". I'm numb to it. It happens. It sucks that they are no longer in your life, but everything I grew up learning about death isn't negated. It happens, it's completely normal, it's inevitable, and frankly, it provides context and meaning to things.

Lothar said:
This line reminds me of Ivan Drago from Rocky. "If he dies, he dies." It's unfathomably cold. Wow.
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Sorry you feel that way about it. It isn't meant to be cold. Just reflects how positively rote it has become for me. I'm not insensitive. Just not impacted.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
JoeM86 said:
I like to think about the laws of physics and how energy cannot be destroyed, so even when you die, the energy that helped you live, that made you you, will continue on in some manner or another throughout the universe until the end of time.
Click to expand...
We're all just like star dust, man.
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
Just like there can be no dark without light, or nothing without something, it's only the existence of pain, suffering, hunger, boredom, fear, that gives way to the emotions that we actually live for. Our lives are defined by our mortality, and everything in this universe is programmed to die. Including the universe itself, based on our current knowledge of physics. If everything was eternal, would anything be beautiful?

This is why I do not believe in the concept of Heaven (eternal happiness). It is logically impossible...at least, to a human mind. The only way to remove the opposites that define "good" emotions is to become indifferent to either of them. The way our brains are designed...a mortal life is the only way to even have a fulfilling life.


As for what happens when you die...my current beliefs is that the concept of non-existence is nothing more than an uncomfortable illusion.

You've already experienced effective "non-existence" for 15 billion years, and yet here you are. Your consciousness is a collection of...thought patterns? Everything about you is recycled and replaced, nothing belongs to "you" except your collection of memories from a very specific perspective. If you remove that which anchors your perspective...who is it to say that the result is non-existence? You are returning to the "normal" state of matter, that which you were before your birth. It will no longer be a "human" perspective of course, but that didn't matter to "you" before it suddenly did, just like your loss of consciousness during sleep didn't bother you when you woke up. Who's to say you wont "exist" in some other capacity (or multiple capacities) again, the same way you seemingly popped into the [very oddly] specific existence you're experiencing now?

*adjusts glasses, smokes pipe*
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
There's a running current in this thread that is somehow keeping it from doing something that's more interesting than what each of us thinks about what death is. The title is phrased in such a way that it steers towards that more interesting stuff, specifically how would a society build a canon around death the same way we have a western/christian/modern canon about death and how that canon becomes evident in the many ways we approach death in the many aspects of our quotidian lives. Like, many are quick to point out that death is the endpoint of our existence, but i'm sure they're more than ok with carrying on with the cultural practices that we've earned via our christian roots (for example), namely specific funeral proceedings, specific coffin practices, etc.

The more interesting question here is not what death is, but how would a fundamentally atheistic society build cultural practices and values that reflect their atheistic nature? That's something i've been thinking a lot about lately, and i think i've even made some posts to that effect, which is what an atheistic culture would look like. Like, gastronomically, artistically, all that stuff. And recently i've come to think that the practice of being an atheist inherently requires the process of reframing our cultural heritage in a way that reflects that atheism and constructs on it instead of absentmindedly continuing practices that atheism conflicts with, to in essence create an atheistic identity that's something more than just a kind of theological denialism and become an actual counter culture with, you know, actual culture.
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
John Kowalski said:
There's a running current in this thread that is somehow keeping it from doing something that's more interesting than what each of us thinks about what death is. The title is phrased in such a way that it steers towards that more interesting stuff, specifically how would a society build a canon around death the same way we have a western/christian/modern canon about death and how that canon becomes evident in the many ways we approach death in the many aspects of our quotidian lives. Like, many are quick to point out that death is the endpoint of our existence, but i'm sure they're more than ok with carrying on with the cultural practices that we've earned via our christian roots (for example), namely specific funeral proceedings, specific coffin practices, etc.

The more interesting question here is not what death is, but how would a fundamentally atheistic society build cultural practices and values that reflect their atheistic nature? That's something i've been thinking a lot about lately, and i think i've even made some posts to that effect, which is what an atheistic culture would look like. Like, gastronomically, artistically, all that stuff. And recently i've come to think that the practice of being an atheist inherently requires the process of reframing our cultural heritage in a way that reflects that atheism and constructs on it instead of absentmindedly continuing practices that atheism conflicts with, to in essence create an atheistic identity that's something more than just a kind of theological denialism and become an actual counter culture with, you know, actual culture.
Click to expand...

I kind of feel like if Atheism took hold and a real culture was developed around it, then it would just replace religious symbols and imagery with scientific ones that more or less convey the same feeling and ideas. Like, instead of a cross being worshiped, it would be an atom. Or something. Atheists aren't immune from existential thoughts, and it would be kind of hard to develop a culture around just attacking others.

I don't think it would look all that different than something like Buddhism at its core, really.
 
G

Grug

Member
LordKasual said:
I kind of feel like if Atheism took hold and a real culture was developed around it, then it would just replace religious symbols and imagery with scientific ones that more or less convey the same feeling and ideas. Like, instead of a cross being worshiped, it would be an atom. Or something. Atheists aren't immune from existential thoughts, and it would be kind of hard to develop a culture around just attacking others.

I don't think it would look all that different than something like Buddhism at its core, really.
Click to expand...

Atheism is just a lack of belief in a theistic god. It's not a philosophy.

Humanism is a p[philosophy however, and is perfectly compatible with atheism.
 
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