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[Messofanego]

Because this is video games, an amalgamation of ART and tech. Caricatures like Samus Aran and Pac-Man with no human personality or identifiable ethnic backdrop, who operate as mere avatars, can be subjected to various artistic interpretations without closet racists and perservists condemning the notion and immediately branding these characters as something more in the guise of "30 years she looked this way bla bla bla" simply to validate their conservative positions.

But this is a pointless debate as Nintendo will never entertain the notion, but at least they have valid excuses as to why they'd be vehemently against the idea, which is more than I can say for some of the Metroid traditionlists in this thread. The ultimate merit of this discussion, however, is that it reveals to me there's a long way to go before we can be rid of the closet racists that still plague the VG community.

For such long-running franchises that are open to different gameplay and mechanics and design goals and other technical aspects that are quite hard to do, it's a bit telling that just changing the skin colour or background of the main character which doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things on a minute-to-minute experience basis would cause so much outrage.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Because this is video games, an amalgamation of ART and tech. Caricatures like Samus Aran and Pac-Man with no human personality or identifiable ethnic backdrop, who operate as mere avatars, can be subjected to various artistic interpretations without closet racists and perservists condemning the notion and immediately branding these characters as something more in the guise of "30 years she looked this way bla bla bla" simply to validate their conservative positions.

But this is a pointless debate as Nintendo will never entertain the notion, but at least they have valid excuses as to why they'd be vehemently against the idea, which is more than I can say for some of the Metroid traditionlists in this thread. The ultimate merit of this discussion, however, is that it reveals to me there's a long way to go before we can be rid of the closet racists that still plague the VG community.

Your username is fitting for this post.

But I'll humor you, and brush aside the severe and overreaching mass generalizations of your post. First of all, to compare Pac-man a yellow sphere to Samus, and then say that neither have an "ethnic" backdrop, just shows how desperate you are. Anyone with a brain can tell that Samus is suppose to be "white" not specifically Irish, or Polish, or Russian, or anything as the series takes place far far in the future where those countries likely no longer exist. That ambiguity however doesn't mean that her race doesn't matter, as last time I checked, it's pretty much impossible to tell someone's genetic makeup and background IRL, by just looking at them.

Secondly, I severely detest the notion that just because something is fictional that we shouldn't care to preserve what it is. The sheer irony of it all is palpable when you consider that people argue for changes like this because of the effect that these fiction characters would have if changed, yet then, like you did here, turn around and belittle anyone who would care enough to not like the change, as if you're only allowed to care about something fictional if your on the "right" side of the argument. It's just so so silly.

But, I guess I'm just a closeted racist, because I'd rather diversity adds to gaming instead of taking stuff that already exists away.

Not that the series is aiming for realism or anything (DIE IN FIRE TO SEEK MALE PERMISSION), but it was more that if they wanted her to look more alien, they have a great reason to. Spiderman also looks very human and is very not. It's one of those situations.

I'd rather Samus be a bit more alien, TBH. Chozo don't look human, so it'd be neat if some of that bled over to her.

I agree that she's probably kept more human to be more marketable, but I just prefer it that way. I mean that's what I want/expect out of Samus when I play Metroid.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Has nothing to do with lore, or her background...of which she really has none. She's an automaton, a glorified android that must somehow maintain her "ethnicity" to Metroid traditionalists. The ground argument of this 1,000-reply thread can be summarized to one point: if she ain't White, it ain't right.

Samus has been around since the NES. Why not turn Mario or Link black too.

Just make a new Metroid with a new character in the same universe, who cares then.

 

[Meesh]

Who the hell is Seamus?

Maybe the Irish Samus? Hmmmm...

 

[Madame M]

Blonde, white Samus does not have a monopoly on the name "Samus," there can be a black Samus in a new game.

Samus has been around since the NES. Why not turn Mario or Link black too.

Just make a new Metroid with a new character in the same universe, who cares then.

Samus on the NES looked nothing like modern Samus

 

[Ganondorfo]

I would react normal. I just want a new Metroid that is as good as Super/Prime and Zero Mission, its that difficult to ask?

 

[Metroxed]

Just like with the whole female Link debacle, I don't understand why some people seem so obssessed with altering existing characters in already existing franchises instead of demanding (to Nintendo or whoever) new franchises with a wider variety of representation in the main characters or new characters that fit those roles.

For example, instead of demanding Mario to become something else, I would instead say why not have another Mario-like character (like Luigi, Wario, etc.) who is black or has a different skin colour to the existing characters?

Why not ask for the the next important character in Metroid, whenever it comes, to be black instead of asking Samus especifically (and pointlessly) to be changed? I'd much prefer to see a new bountyhunter come along (either Samus' rival, or friend, or nemesis or pal) and find out that it's a black woman just as cool (if not more) as Samus, than see an existing character just changed.

Altering Samus' ethnic appearance seems forceful and something that would be done just "because" without any real effort from a narrative perspective.

Now, if we want to change it just for the sake of changing it, let's make her a black man.

 

[Madame M]

I'm confused as to who exactly is "demanding" Samus be black. The topic we've been discussing is how we would react if Samus were black. Those who have been stridently opposed are the ones coming to the topic with demands.

 

[PSqueak]

Marvel created a Black/Hispanic Spider-Man and he's even better than the original. Bring on Black Samus!

Congratulations, you unwittingly signed into team "Not black samus, but black samus like character".

 

[Immaculate]

Y'all care too much about this stuff

 

[T.O.P]

Your username is fitting for this post.

But I'll humor you, and brush aside the severe and overreaching mass generalizations of your post. First of all, to compare Pac-man a yellow sphere to Samus, and then say that neither have an "ethnic" backdrop, just shows how desperate you are. Anyone with a brain can tell that Samus is suppose to be "white" not specifically Irish, or Polish, or Russian, or anything as the series takes place far far in the future where those countries likely no longer exist. That ambiguity however doesn't mean that her race doesn't matter, as last time I checked, it's pretty much impossible to tell someone's genetic makeup and background IRL, by just looking at them.

Secondly, I severely detest the notion that just because something is fictional that we shouldn't care to preserve what it is. The sheer irony of it all is palpable when you consider that people argue for changes like this because of the effect that these fiction characters would have if changed, yet then, like you did here, turn around and belittle anyone who would care enough to not like the change, as if you're only allowed to care about something fictional if your on the "right" side of the argument. It's just so so silly.

Damn!

A new black badass bounty hunter would be fuckin awesome for the next Metroid game, i don't get the point of this thread in the slightest tho, just trying to stir shit up i guess

 

[KillLaCam]

I didn't expect this thread to last so long

 

[kodecraft]

Don't start shit, won't be no shit. This topic comes off like the ones you see in gossip sites.

And why just black? Samus could be any race of woman and still be badass.

 

[Mango The Magician]

I'm confused as to who exactly is "demanding" Samus be black. The topic we've been discussing is how we would react if Samus were black. Those who have been stridently opposed are the ones coming to the topic with demands.

I'd be ok with the scenario in the Op if it was explained that it wasn't actually Samus but someone like Lucina masquerading as Samus. If it actually was Samus herself, I'd just feel disgusted and annoyed, reboot or not, especially if Nintendo hid it from me till the very end, as then they'd have tricked me into buying something I'm not in support of.

 

[Madame M]

I'd be ok with the scenario in the Op if it was explained that it wasn't actually Samus but someone like Lucina masquerading as Samus. If it actually was Samus herself, I'd just feel disgusted and annoyed, reboot or not, especially if Nintendo hid it from me till the very end, as then they'd have tricked me into buying something I'm not in support of.

Wow, you wouldn't even buy a new Metroid over that? You sure care about the games... funny you describe that scenario as being "tricked"

 

[SmokedMeat]

They can make Samus whatever ethnicity they desire, but for the love of God, give her some personality to match. As she is right now, she's about as interesting as a sheet of cardboard.

 

[RoombaDance]

I think the idea of a modern Metroid game where the protagonist is concealed until a reveal at the end again is actually pretty neat. Whether that character would actually be Samus, or simply another character in Chozo armor, it would still be an exciting (and controversial) bait and switch. Reboots that completely recast a character and toss out the lore can actually be a bit cruel to fans of the existing character, regardless of the race issue though. It's kind of like gaslighting the fans to avoid losing name recognition of the main character, but I guess we're used to these reboots by now.

I do find it interesting though that you can change essentially anything about a character's physical appearance between iterations of a franchise, but once you start changing skin tone people go crazy.

 

[-MD-]

Really couldn't care less what color she is, I'm here to play video games.

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

You're trying to equate whitewashing with expanding diversity in games?

For Samus to be black wouldn't that be called blackwashing?
*shrugs*

The results are exactly the same.
You can't have one and ignore the other just because.

"whitewashing" should not be limited to a certain race color.

 

[LordKasual]

It's Neogaf bro.

point

I'm confused as to who exactly is "demanding" Samus be black. The topic we've been discussing is how we would react if Samus were black. Those who have been stridently opposed are the ones coming to the topic with demands.

The real discussion here seems to be whether or not randomly changing the ethnicity of an established character it is a good idea to begin with.

But people seem to have slanted the discussion into whether or not being opposed to it means that you're opposed to diversification in media.

Which, of course, is an asinine conclusion to draw. But you know how that goes.

 

[LotusHD]

For Samus to be black wouldn't that be called blackwashing?
*shrugs*

The results are exactly the same.
You can't have one and ignore the other just because.

"whitewashing" should not be limited to a certain race color.

 

[Spux666]

Sounds fine to me. The colour of her skin doesn't effect gameplay or the quality of her character. Don't be racist?

 

[Shadow Broker]

Why a reboot? Just introduce a black female main in the next Metroid game.

Whether it's in movies or in games I don't feel you need to change a Known character race when you can add to that universe or lore by creating a new character that's a different race with a new story and begining. That in my opinion is a better sense of fresh air.

To answer the question

I'm usually not ok with changing a iconic character when I feel you can create new iconic main characters to the story, universe, or lore. But if Nintendo did remake the series with a black female lead I wouldn't be bothered by it but kind of disappointed for the above reasons.


Out of the Big 3 console makers I feel Nintendo has the best shot of creating the first or widely popular Black or African American Iconic female lead because of a series like Metroid. They don't need to sneak her into a reboot to do it either.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Wow, you wouldn't even buy a new Metroid over that? You sure care about the games... funny you describe that scenario as being "tricked"

I didn't say that I wouldn't buy it, through I probably wouldn't as I refuse to support characters I like being changed for no other reason then "why not?" I was simply stating that I'd be pretty pissed off if I was tricked like how the hypothetical describes.

It wouldn't even be a good analogy to the original Metroid game where people didn't know that Samus was a woman, as Samus was a new entity, that players had just met for the first time. She's now thirty.

I think the idea of a modern Metroid game where the protagonist is concealed until a reveal at the end again is actually pretty neat. Whether that character would actually be Samus, or simply another character in Chozo armor, it would still be an exciting (and controversial) bait and switch. Reboots that completely recast a character and toss out the lore can actually be a bit cruel to fans of the existing character, regardless of the race issue though. It's kind of like gaslighting the fans to avoid losing name recognition of the main character, but I guess we're used to these reboots by now.

I do find it interesting though that you can change essentially anything about a character's physical appearance between iterations of a franchise, but once you start changing skin tone people go crazy.

Come on man. How many times do I need to link to pictures of Samus for people to stop acting like she changes drastically between games?

Gif

While I understand that there is a greater number of white character then black. Going by the logic of the thread, what would be the harm in a iconic black character, who's story doesn't emphasize that they are black, being changed to white or Asian or middle eastern in a reboot? After all, it's a reboot.

 

[Madame M]

Come on man. How many times do I need to link to pictures of Samus for people to stop acting like she changes drastically between games?

If you look closely I think you can tell she's waving at you

 

[Shadow Broker]

Blonde, white Samus does not have a monopoly on the name "Samus," there can be a black Samus in a new game.



Samus on the NES looked nothing like modern Samus

This is the only Metroid game I played and beat. I didn't know the name Samus was shared. In that case. Yeah, it really wouldn't bother me. I still feel that it can be done better then slapping the name Samus on a black or African American female but eh...

Wonder if we'll ever see the Red head Samus again.

 

[Mango The Magician]

If you look closely I think you can tell she's waving at you

Ninty characters typically don't look like their modern version in their first appearance, I don't see why this has to be explained.

 

[brandonh83]

Interesting OP... but I think it would be badass.

 

[Kinyou]

For such long-running franchises that are open to different gameplay and mechanics and design goals and other technical aspects that are quite hard to do, it's a bit telling that just changing the skin colour or background of the main character which doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things on a minute-to-minute experience basis would cause so much outrage.

I can guarantee you that there's tons of other stuff about Samus design where people would also get mad if Nintendo would change them.

People have grown attached to the character that's been established for so long, I find it odd how some people try to act like that's a strange thing. (or even call them closet racists)

 

[Messofanego]

If you look closely I think you can tell she's waving at you

How many different Samus Aran looks have we had? That would be cool if there was something different for the next Metroid, we've seen the zero suit version for so many games now.

 

[Mango The Magician]

How many different Samus Aran looks have we had? That would be cool if there was something different for the next Metroid, we've seen the zero suit version for so many games now.

I actually already made a timeline for that.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=237466221&postcount=1071

I'd personally argue that there's only one look, just different art styles around said look, but well yeah.

It's a false equivalency that ignores what you literally just said: That there is a greater number of white characters than there are black ones. One, despite the obvious controversial drama it would create, adds diversity, while the other takes it away. And then of course that can be further exacerbated if their skin color/ethnicity is an important part of that character's identity.

A "Black Samus" has never been something I've ever given any thought to (Though admittedly I wouldn't fight it if it randomly happened), so uhh, y'all continue to hash it out. But it's irksome to read posts that believe that making a PoC character White would be the exact same thing. It isn't.

But going by the logic presented in this thread, it'd be a different character as it would be a reboot. Plus, "diversity" means well diversity, so in a hypothetical series where the main character just happened to be black, and there were very few white characters, a reboot, starring a "different version" of said character as one of the few white characters in this hypothetical series, would by default be adding diversity to said series. Hell it doesn't even have to be changing it to white. Why not reboot a black character as a Pilipino?

The point is, is that diversity is perfectly fine and is something that we should have more of, but I fail to truly see why, in this case and in the case of a female Link, why it's always a matter of changing what already exists, as opposed to adding diversity to the already existing world. It always just comes off as vindictive to me, when people push to change existing characters in the name of diversity, but are unable to explain why a new character couldn't work just as well.

Also, Samus is like the only human in most Metroid games. Taking the only human in a series and changing its race, doesn't add diversity as there's still only one human. Adding a second bounty hunter who could be a close ally of Samus's who happens to be black or some other race then white would be "adding diversity" as then there would be two humans, who were diversely different from one another.

 

[LotusHD]

While I understand that there is a greater number of white character then black. Going by the logic of the thread, what would be the harm in a iconic black character, who's story doesn't emphasize that they are black, being changed to white or Asian or middle eastern in a reboot? After all, it's a reboot.

It's a false equivalency that ignores what you literally just said: That there is a greater number of white characters than there are black ones. One, despite the obvious controversial drama it would create, adds diversity, while the other takes it away. And then of course that can be further exacerbated if their skin color/ethnicity is an important part of that character's identity.

A "Black Samus" has never been something I've ever given any thought to (Though admittedly I wouldn't fight it if it randomly happened), so uhh, y'all continue to hash it out. But it's irksome to read posts that believe that making a PoC character White would be the exact same thing. It isn't.

 

[Mechanized]

Sure. Why would anyone care if she's black? I just want a new classic metroid.

 

[Screamapillar]

It wouldnt change my feelings about it one way or the other. Metroid is Metroid. Its about gameplay and atmosphere, not skin color.

 

[Madame M]

Ninty characters typically don't look like their modern version in their first appearance, I don't see why this has to be explained.

And if Samus were black, she wouldn't look like the original brunette/redhead Samus either.

I would like to see a new Metroid with 80s big hair redhead Samus.

 

[Shredderi]

 

[sugarman]

And if Samus were black, she wouldn't look like the original brunette/redhead Samus either.

I would like to see a new Metroid with 80s big hair redhead Samus.

It's gonna be all dark space punctuated by planets and over here is a cliff with a lady holding a giant fucking laser gun just, protectin'

 

[Unaha-Closp]

why would a woman having more skin pigmentation alter how I feel about a video game she was in? I would have to be a hideous ignorant racist asshole for it to I feel.

 

[Jedi2016]

Indifferent shrug.

 

[Madame M]

It's gonna be all dark space punctuated by planets and over here is a cliff with a lady holding a giant fucking laser gun just, protectin'

Exactly

 

[LinkAndEpona]

I was surprised Samus was not revealed to be green, orange, or blue skinned after Metroid Fusion since she merged with a Metroid.

True, though Metroids have a built-in evolution growth cycle, so I doubt we've seen Samus' final form and it very well could end up being black.

 

[Mango The Magician]

And if Samus were black, she wouldn't look like the original brunette/redhead Samus either.

I would like to see a new Metroid with 80s big hair redhead Samus.

I feel like you're just so desperate to prove that a black Samus can happen, that no point I make is gonna matter at this point.

Samus's identity is the blonde white woman you see in Smash, just like Mario's identity is the blue overall wearing plumber you can also see in Smash. There's nothing to be gained or proved by arbitrarily changing those designs other then controversy for the sake of controversy.

why would a woman having more skin pigmentation alter how I feel about a video game she was in? I would have to be a hideous ignorant racist asshole for it to I feel.

God the hoops some of yall have to jump through mentally to avoid the idea that some people just don't want their favorite characters changed, is outstanding.

 

[nephilimdj]

Love to have a AAA game where lead character is ethnicity and culturally is African.
I am not sure why Samus even needs a ethnic identity, just because zero and smash made her into a japan anime “babe”.

 

[L.O.R.D]

hmm,i don't know

if capcom rebooted DMC and made him black,what is the internet reaction?

 

[Madame M]

I feel like you're just so desperate to prove that a black Samus can happen, that no point I make it gonna matter at this point.

You are right, because a black Samus can happen, the creation of Metroid games is in control of Nintendo and they can use the Metroid IP however they want.

 

[Mango The Magician]

You are right, because a black Samus can happen, the creation of Metroid games is in control of Nintendo and they can use the Metroid IP however they want.

Yes, it sure is nice to dream.

 

[Madame M]

Yes, it sure is nice to dream.

How sad, you don't have to remind people we will never see another Metroid.

 

[Metroxed]

Have the next Metroid game be a side story in which you play as a black bounty hunter with a cool Power Suit. Samus is not the only one fighting against Space Pirates after all.

Or better yet, make Metroid 5 be about a new bounty hunter protagonist looking for Samus under the orders of the Galactic Federation. She can be black or any other colour.

I think writers should be able to come with nice ideas for including new more diverse characters without having to resort to rebooting or altering existing characters.

 

[Mango The Magician]

How sad, you don't have to remind people we will never see another Metroid.

Actually, I'm not 100% sold that the series is dead, I in fact could see them doing a soft reboot, BOTW style.

But the idea that they'd changed Samus's design, when they'd obviously want to use said reboot to sell existing toys, virtual console games, amiibos, and her spot in Smash and previous Smash games, is just flat out ludicrous.

...and is also the type of thing I've come to expect from GAF in recent years.

 

[Theonik]

hmm,i don't know

if capcom rebooted DMC and made him black,what is the internet reaction?

Look at when they got rid of his black hair and made him a douchebag. Now amplify this by 100.

I don't see much value in rebooting brands in this way tbh. The point of trademarks is recognition. If a new image is desired abandon the brand.