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I beat Resident Evil 4 for the first time. I still don't like tank controls.

I think there are a number of people who regard 'tank controls' as 'turning is sluggish', which isn't unreasonable, if a bit of a misnomer.

Maybe that's the key; Classic RE had two control traits - static cameras and sluggish turning - and both together are regarded as 'tank controls' - but for some it's just the static camera, for others it's just the sluggish turning, and for a third group it's just the combination of both those traits.
Yes

Its how one defines it,both ultimately still tank, but necessary to point out how different tank can be from "tank" just based in perspective

Gta cars drive the same in Gta 1 versus Gta 3 but certainly doesn't play the same because of the perspective difference
 

Kaleinc

Banned
Tomb Raider for PS1 the camera is the reference for movements... so it is not tank controls... the camera follow the view of your characters making the movement not looks like a tank.

Tank controls is that awkward moment when you press forward and the character go to where he is looking at even if it means to right or back.

If the camera changes with the view point is not tank controls... it is only tank controls if the camera is fixed.
If you control a real tank with a remote and stand above it the controls are tank, when you stand behind it and do the same dis is no longer tank controls.
lmao this thread
 

Javier23

Banned
Yes

Its how one defines it,both ultimately still tank, but necessary to point out how different tank can be from "tank" just based in perspective

Gta cars drive the same in Gta 1 versus Gta 3 but certainly doesn't play the same because of the perspective difference
But they still control like cars. You are being very silly ITT.
 
Yes

Its how one defines it,both ultimately still tank, but necessary to point out how different tank can be from "tank" just based in perspective

Gta cars drive the same in Gta 1 versus Gta 3 but certainly doesn't play the same because of the perspective difference

Why yes?

Static cameras aren't even a "control trait" and there are tons of tank control games where the turning isn't sluggish. Conversely there are games with "sluggish" movement and direct controls.

The distinction isn't based on movement fidelity. It's literally just about how your character controls in concordance to certain button presses.

kssXkZK.png


Goddamnit gaf, it's not that hard
 
You don't like tank controls, okay...what does that have to do with Resident Evil 4?

Edit: Fair enough, I guess technically it is tank control then.

To OP, It would be funny to see your reaction when future young Gaffer tells you ''I don't like GTA style open worlds, it's too old school and nothing like what we have today. Beat the game, still don't like it. Clunky AF.''

Yes, the game is old, very old, in fact.
It's amazing how everything still holds up so incredibly well, only people who got into gaming after 2010s would dislike the control of the game. Which is understandable, nothing wrong with that, a lot of people in my generation can't get into turn based RPG as well.

I really don't think it's fair to judge the game now with your modern gaming standards.

Everything in this world, and I mean everything, will be outdated at some point. Does that mean they stop being great? Would you stop loving your loved ones just because they are no longer in their prime? Do great people stop being great just because they have aged?

I respect your opinion, but sometimes you should treat old things with more respect.
 

Savantcore

Unconfirmed Member
Can't believe this debate is still ongoing lmao

Resident Evil 4 has tank controls and you are insane if you disagree.
 

Melchiah

Member
Re4 started the qte craze, thats why no one complained about them. To be used in that way was pretty novel. Plus it was perfect qte. They went downhill from there. Think about it. The QTE boom began only 1 generation after n64, thats a lot of years between then and now for people to grow tired of them and hate them. Also alot of years for devs to do them wrong and milk the shit out of them.

Wasn't done to death then and it wasn't everywhere in the game. RE4 knew when to use QTEs and when not to. It also gave you plenty of reaction time (Looking at you RE6).

The Krauser QTE was by far the most annoying part of RE4 for me due to the unforgivingly short time window for the button presses. It was pretty much an exercise of trial and error for me, and took me far too many tries to get through, which is why I can't consider it a perfect QTE. I also had similar, but not that severe, problems with the other QTEs in the game.

In a sense, I compare it with the rhythm puzzle in GOW3, which became an almost unsurpassable obstacle for my progress. It's also the single reason for why I never played that game through again. I've always sucked at mastering those kind of gameplay mechanics, perhaps partly due to the nerve damage in my right arm. Something like Thumper is pretty much impossible for me.
 

The Shift

Banned
Can someone confirm for me because my mind is blowing right now:

Does World of Tanks have tank controls and are those controls comparable to RE4's implementation?
 

Joohanh

Member
Can someone confirm for me because my mind is blowing right now:

Does World of Tanks have tank controls and are those controls comparable to RE4's implementation?

No, you've got it wrong. Real tanks don't have tank controls either. Tank controls mean a situation where the camera angle is fixed like RC tanks.

I just watched a document from History Channel about the development of first tanks in the beginning of 20th century. The earliest models were heavily criticized for having tank controls, thus creating the need for modern RE4 type controls that were widely implemented in WWII era tanks.
 

GametimeUK

Member
ITT: People are in denial about liking a Resident Evil with tank controls.

Page one has me second guessing my views on the Mandela Effect, is Hillary or Bernie president in this dimension by chance?
 

mindsale

Member
Yes

Its how one defines it,both ultimately still tank, but necessary to point out how different tank can be from "tank" just based in perspective

Gta cars drive the same in Gta 1 versus Gta 3 but certainly doesn't play the same because of the perspective difference


I haven't played RE4 in a while (though I played it to death back in the day), but this post absolutely nails it.

Perspective absolutely has an impact on gameplay.

I would consider RE-3 "Tank" controls (especially with their fixed camera perspectives that highlight the awkward pre-movement movement) but with a change in perspective it feels much less like I am positioning Leon then piloting him forward, even if that's exactly what I'm doing.
 
Tank controls work in RE4 because the camera is always reliably behind the character, so up moves you forward. It's pretty intuitive in that sense.

In the older games with the dynamic camera angles, it works against your intuition and therefore takes a while to get used to. I eventually got used to it, but the feeling is definitely different from RE4's.
 

Raptomex

Member
You don't like tank controls, okay...what does that have to do with Resident Evil 4?

Edit: Fair enough, I guess technically it is tank control then.

To OP, It would be funny to see your reaction when future young Gaffer tells you ''I don't like GTA style open worlds, it's too old school and nothing like what we have today. Beat the game, still don't like it. Clunky AF.''

Yes, the game is old, very old, in fact.
It's amazing how everything still holds up so incredibly well, only people who got into gaming after 2010s would dislike the control of the game. Which is understandable, nothing wrong with that, a lot of people in my generation can't get into turn based RPG as well.

I really don't think it's fair to judge the game now with your modern gaming standards.

Everything in this world, and I mean everything, will be outdated at some point. Does that mean they stop being great? Would you stop loving your loved ones just because they are no longer in their prime? Do great people stop being great just because they have aged?

I respect your opinion, but sometimes you should treat old things with more respect.
I don't think you comprehended (or read) my post. I didn't say I didn't like the game. I said I don't like tank controls. I gave the tank controls a real chance this time and Resident Evil 4 didn't change my mind about them is all. I beat the entire campaign and got used to them after a certain point and even after thirteen hours, I still didn't like them. Do I think it makes the game terrible? Absolutely not. There's nothing bad or wrong with tank controls. The controls here function properly and were responsive. In fact, RE4 is designed around them and because of that, everything in the game comes together nicely. It's still a great game.
 
This thread is like watching people who eat apples standing up instead of sitting down aggressively try to argue that because they are standing up the food is no longer an apple.
 
I feel the third person perspective is essential for a "tank controls" distinction, otherwise a classical FPS would also fall under "tank controls" Or we just agree that non tank controls move the character independent of where the character is facing.
 
I feel the third person perspective is essential for a "tank controls" distinction, otherwise a classical FPS would also fall under "tank controls" Or we just agree that non tank controls move the character independent of where the character is facing.

The perspective is irrelevant. If you close your eyes and play either game, the movement is the same. The perspective has zero to do with anything.
 
The perspective is irrelevant. If you close your eyes and play either game, the movement is the same. The perspective has zero to do with anything.
It matters because then a classical FPS can have tank controls as well (I'm almost sure Wolfenstein 3D could be considered "tank controls" with a lax definition). And I'm sure we can all agree with that's not being correct.
 

pastrami

Member
It matters because then a classical FPS can have tank controls as well.

They kind of do, in the same way Metroid Prime also has tank controls. Take Wolfenstein 3D. Your basic control option is up to move forward, down to move backwards, and left/right to turn left/right. That's tank controls. But unlike RE4, Metroid Prime and Wolfenstein 3D have button modifiers to allow for strafing. You just can't strafe and turn at the same time.

But the first Doom game allowed you to turn and strafe at the same time by having dedicated strafe buttons.
 

Raptomex

Member
It matters because then a classical FPS can have tank controls as well. And I'm sure we can all agree with don't think that's correct.
It doesn't matter. An FPS can have tank controls if the developers decide to implement them. Tank controls boil down to how the character moves. I think someone mentioned that Metroid Prime has quasi tank controls. I haven't played it in a long time, though, so I don't remember every detail about the controls. I do know you can strafe when locking on to enemies and that makes a world of difference, actually.
 
They kind of do, in the same way Metroid Prime also has tank controls. Take Wolfenstein 3D. Your basic control option is up to move forward, down to move backwards, and left/right to turn left/right. That's tank controls. But unlike RE4, Metroid Prime and Wolfenstein 3D have button modifiers to allow for strafing. You just can't strafe and turn at the same time.

But the first Doom game allowed you to turn and strafe at the same time by having dedicated strafe buttons.
That's why I think perspective has to be a factor, or at least some leeway. Cause I personally don't think "tank controls" should include classical FPS, the term was born out of a third person context.
 

kewlmyc

Member
ITT: No one can agree what tank controls actually mean

It's "JRPG" all over again.


But yeah, despite not really liking tank controls, I loved RE4. Funny what a change in camera does to tank controls.
 

tkscz

Member
The Krauser QTE was by far the most annoying part of RE4 for me due to the unforgivingly short time window for the button presses. It was pretty much an exercise of trial and error for me, and took me far too many tries to get through, which is why I can't consider it a perfect QTE. I also had similar, but not that severe, problems with the other QTEs in the game.

In a sense, I compare it with the rhythm puzzle in GOW3, which became an almost unsurpassable obstacle for my progress. It's also the single reason for why I never played that game through again. I've always sucked at mastering those kind of gameplay mechanics, perhaps partly due to the nerve damage in my right arm. Something like Thumper is pretty much impossible for me.

Then RE6 would be impossible for you. They are finicky, short timed, and everywhere. Some of them are rapid press (to almost impossible speeds) and others are timing based where the timing can be stupidly persist. Then some just pop up so fast and go away so immediately that I've gotten killed because I just didn't notice them.
 
There's a line drawn on the sand, and among many other issues it involves whether or not Metroid Prime has tank controls AND BY DARN I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT
 

RSB

Banned
LOL at all the people saying RE4 doesn't have tank controls. Of course it does.

I think a lot of people don't understand what tank controls actually are?

The controls in RE4 are mostly the same as all the previous REs. Just the camera changed.
Yep.

Anyway, if you don't like tank controls it's fine OP. Personally I love them, especially in games with fixed camera angles (they are perfect for that)
 
It matters because then a classical FPS can have tank controls as well (I'm almost sure Wolfenstein 3D could be considered "tank controls" with a lax definition). And I'm sure we can all agree with that's not being correct.

Uhm.

So okay, if I make a game....
About driving a tank....

And I make said tank control like a tank....
But you play in first person view, is it suddenly not a tank?
 
There's a line drawn on the sand, and among many other issues it involves whether or not Metroid Prime has tank controls AND BY DARN I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT

Metroid Prime GCN has quasi tank controls. Tank controls when not locked on, not tank controls when locked on.
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
It matters because then a classical FPS can have tank controls as well (I'm almost sure Wolfenstein 3D could be considered "tank controls" with a lax definition). And I'm sure we can all agree with that's not being correct.

It really doesn't. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Perspective does not change the inherent mechanics of the control scheme.

Games with Tank Controls:

-3rd-Person Isometric: Resident Evil
-3rd-Person Behind: Resident Evil 4
-1st Person: Halo CE - Go to options and pick "Legacy Controls".
-1st/3rd-Person Standard: Pick any modern game (1st or 3rd persp.) with a tank/stationary turret in it and generally when you take control of it, the control method changes to tank controls. Sometimes you can even swap perspectives, yet the controls will always remain the same.

For instance, this is me switching back and forth from Standard controls to Tank controls (Legacy) in Halo CE, using nothing but the left analog stick to press Left and Right...

https://zippy.gfycat.com/ForkedDefenselessGull.webm

Perspective does not matter.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Re4 has goddamn tank controls.

Yes, the camera implementation can change the subjective feeling of how intuitive or clumsy the controls are, but they remain tank controls.
 
The number of people on the first page who are extremely confident in expressing their complete lack of understanding as to what "tank controls" actually are has to be one of the closest and densely-packed concentrations of self-owns in recent memory

Hehe, what does "self-own" even mean?
 

Melchiah

Member
Then RE6 would be impossible for you. They are finicky, short timed, and everywhere. Some of them are rapid press (to almost impossible speeds) and others are timing based where the timing can be stupidly persist. Then some just pop up so fast and go away so immediately that I've gotten killed because I just didn't notice them.

Those sound pretty horrible. It's a good thing I skipped that one then. It would have been infuriating to be stuck with such a section, without being able to play the game through.
 
That's why I think perspective has to be a factor, or at least some leeway. Cause I personally don't think "tank controls" should include classical FPS, the term was born out of a third person context.

That actually does not matter at all. Terms can apply retroactively, it happens all the time in art. Classical FPS games do have tank controls.
 
Those sound pretty horrible. It's a good thing I skipped that one then. It would have been infuriating to be stuck with such a section, without being able to play the game through.

They've long since patched in a feature that disables the instant kill QTEs. In the PS4 version it's enabled by default. The prompt still appears and you can manually do the input to get past it faster, but if you don't do anything the game will automatically perform the QTEs for you.

The game just has an annoying abundance of "Mash buttons and waggle sticks to pull this lever or turn this handle or damage this monster or pull yourself up and so on and so on..." sequences, but most of them aren't really timing based and there's a skill that makes all QTEs much easier to perform.
 
They've long since patched in a feature that disables the instant kill QTEs. In the PS4 version it's enabled by default. The prompt still appears and you can manually do the input to get past it faster, but if you don't do anything the game will automatically perform the QTEs for you.
Auto Action Button, as it is called, was originally only available on Amateur difficulty, but it's such a good QOL improvement that it was made available on all difficulties. But Capcom being Capcom, they buried the option in a submenu of the options menu only available from the main menu, and not the ingame phone menu. They did the same thing for FOV sliders.

Frustrating QTEs and low FOV were two serious complaints of the original RE6 release, and the PS4/XBO versions fix both these issues out of the box, with the glaring exception of that stupid ice cave door QTE.

You can literally press nothing when the man shark drags Leon underwater, and all the QTEs will automatically succeed, for example. When fighting the chainsaw monster as Ada, she'll automatically swing off the train. When in the subway as Leon/Helena, you'll automatically dodge trains.

The truly bizarre thing is why it took them until the PS4/XBO versions to enable it by default. It doesn't fully solve the QTEs, but it makes them tolerable.
 
Auto Action Button, as it is called, was originally only available on Amateur difficulty, but it's such a good QOL improvement that it was made available on all difficulties. But Capcom being Capcom, they buried the option in a submenu of the options menu only available from the main menu, and not the ingame phone menu. They did the same thing for FOV sliders.

Frustrating QTEs and low FOV were two serious complaints of the original RE6 release, and the PS4/XBO versions fix both these issues out of the box, with the glaring exception of that stupid ice cave door QTE.

You can literally press nothing when the man shark drags Leon underwater, and all the QTEs will automatically succeed, for example. When fighting the chainsaw monster as Ada, she'll automatically swing off the train. When in the subway as Leon/Helena, you'll automatically dodge trains.

The truly bizarre thing is why it took them until the PS4/XBO versions to enable it by default. It doesn't fully solve the QTEs, but it makes them tolerable.

To be honest, I don't think it matters much, there weren't that many instant death QTEs, barely more than 4 and 5, if any, and just like in those games, you'd fail once and then you'd do it right.

Annoying and really excessive in 6 were the countless button mash sequences to perform mundane tasks and those are only made more tolerable with the Breakout skill.
 
I don't think you comprehended (or read) my post. I didn't say I didn't like the game. I said I don't like tank controls. I gave the tank controls a real chance this time and Resident Evil 4 didn't change my mind about them is all. I beat the entire campaign and got used to them after a certain point and even after thirteen hours, I still didn't like them. Do I think it makes the game terrible? Absolutely not. There's nothing bad or wrong with tank controls. The controls here function properly and were responsive. In fact, RE4 is designed around them and because of that, everything in the game comes together nicely. It's still a great game.

I'll give you tons of credit. When most people butt up against controls they don't like they immediately stop playing and decide that a game is bad. You understand that even if you don't like how a game controls it can still be a great game.

Outside of tank games I would never say that tank controls are good but I like them. Of all non-tank games I think the RE series has done tank controls better than any game. I remember the first time I ever touched this series was with the launch of RE: Directors Cut (non-GH edition) because my older brother was so excited to finally play the game. Despite me being completely horrified by the game I thought it looked so cool and I wanted to see some of the cool monsters I had heard about that were later in the game. After repeatedly dying on the first or second zombie I'd encounter and being totally horrified after each encounter I came to realization that I needed to learn the controls so that I could run away when I need to. I practiced for quite awhile running around in the dining room and main hall until I felt like I had it down. From that point forward tank controls became second nature to me and I grew to really like them.
 

Catalix

And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
That's why I think perspective has to be a factor, or at least some leeway. Cause I personally don't think "tank controls" should include classical FPS, the term was born out of a third person context.
Just because a term was coined much later doesn't mean it can't be applied retroactively to something when appropriate. The early FPSs weren't even called FPSs until much later. That goes for anything, like The Great War being labeled World War I long after the fact.

Genre and mechanic names evolve pretty fluidly over the years. And subgenres are created to help better categorize the more nuanced differences. Stuff like Super Mario World used to just be "platfomers", but now they're often called "2D platfomers" to help make a distinction. And 3D games like Mario 64 are still called platformers, despite the term being coined during an exclusively 2D platforming era. The different perspective didn't change what they inherently are, it just led to the creation of more subgenres.

RE4 is similar, but with its mechanics. It uses the same type of character mobility as the classics (tank controls), but now the subcategory would be "over-the-shoulder" instead of "fixed cinematic" cameras.
 

Raptomex

Member
I'll give you tons of credit. When most people butt up against controls they don't like they immediately stop playing and decide that a game is bad. You understand that even if you don't like how a game controls it can still be a great game.

Outside of tank games I would never say that tank controls are good but I like them. Of all non-tank games I think the RE series has done tank controls better than any game. I remember the first time I ever touched this series was with the launch of RE: Directors Cut (non-GH edition) because my older brother was so excited to finally play the game. Despite me being completely horrified by the game I thought it looked so cool and I wanted to see some of the cool monsters I had heard about that were later in the game. After repeatedly dying on the first or second zombie I'd encounter and being totally horrified after each encounter I came to realization that I needed to learn the controls so that I could run away when I need to. I practiced for quite awhile running around in the dining room and main hall until I felt like I had it down. From that point forward tank controls became second nature to me and I grew to really like them.
I think the biggest reason I don't like them is because they don't make sense for a character, realistically. Like in this type of situation, who wouldn't move and reload at the same time? Why can't he move and shoot? Why can't the man strafe? Is he incapable? I mean I get the point that the controls create the tension and whatnot but it just doesn't make sense. When I put that aside, though, I can enjoy it. Now if I'm actually operating a tank in a game, I'm cool with it.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
To be honest, I don't think it matters much, there weren't that many instant death QTEs, barely more than 4 and 5, if any, and just like in those games, you'd fail once and then you'd do it right.

Annoying and really excessive in 6 were the countless button mash sequences to perform mundane tasks and those are only made more tolerable with the Breakout skill.
I'm replaying RE6 on PC thanks to humble bundle and I'm trying to appreciate the action mechanics as much as possible but the campaign (started on Leon's) still just sucks. I turned on the auto QTE option and was dismayed to find it doesn't do anything for the constant enemy grab QTEs or tedious environmental interactions.
 
I turned on the auto QTE option and was dismayed to find it doesn't do anything for the constant enemy grab QTEs
If enemies are grabbing you, especially constantly you're not dodging/countering properly. Basically any physical attack from an enemy can be dodged/countered. All leaping enemies have clear tells, allowing you to time the counter correctly. I'm not saying "git gud", but rather that the game is punishing you, and you're supposed to learn a lesson from that -- in theory.
 
Well are you arguing a point or just semantics then?
I'm arguing if we're all okay with retroactively calling tank controls in some FPS. Personally, I don't like that idea, I'm way too biased on that regard. It's a slippery slope, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.
 
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