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[BadWolf]

I'm replaying RE6 on PC thanks to humble bundle and I'm trying to appreciate the action mechanics as much as possible but the campaign (started on Leon's) still just sucks. I turned on the auto QTE option and was dismayed to find it doesn't do anything for the constant enemy grab QTEs or tedious environmental interactions.

This has been a thing in the series since classic RE.

 

[potatohead]

But they still control like cars. You are being very silly ITT.

Um no not at all, I'm being very reasonable actually. Perspective makes a world of difference in a control scheme.

Tank in classic RE feels way different because of the fixed isometric perspective. It's the same reason it's harder to drive in GTA classic versus 3D games (aside from the not being able to see in front of you as much). Or why the driving games in Toy Story are pretty difficult compared to say driving in some other behind-the-car view driving game for SNES.

Whether or not this thread or OP likes tank even behind the camera is another thing, I personally enjoy the RE4 systems, and yea it definitely feels way different than playing RE1-3 because of over the shoulder and of course free aim.

I haven't played RE4 in a while (though I played it to death back in the day), but this post absolutely nails it.

Perspective absolutely has an impact on gameplay.

I would consider RE-3 "Tank" controls (especially with their fixed camera perspectives that highlight the awkward pre-movement movement) but with a change in perspective it feels much less like I am positioning Leon then piloting him forward, even if that's exactly what I'm doing.

Thx bro

 

[johannesbergcrantz]

The reason I got interested here is I guess that I never have had an issue with the re4-controls beyond what could be attributed to me "sucking" at the game. I never once stopped thinking, -this feels like what controlling a tank must feel like. And so.. its not. Its turning, running, turning, running. Tank-controls are for tanks. Haha.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

This has been a thing in the series since classic RE.

To be fair, the issue is that RE6 adds a second layer to QTEs.

Wiggle/WASD tapping. Same as other games.

Followed by, sometimes, a "hit button when bar is in correct position". The purpose of this second QTE is to perform a counter-attack against the enemy who grabbed you.

However, it's bizarre that the wiggling got so much attention because all they did was try to help players by showing an icon. Same as those icons that flash when an enemy is about to melee attack you, cuing the player to counter. In RE1/2/3/4/5/etc, when the player got grabbed, they still had to wiggle the stick or press a button rapidly to break free. I guess the difference is that those games didn't have leaping enemies or enemy attack countering that is thinly explained and a fair few players struggle to grasp.

I remember the Giant Bomb guys who played RE6 had no clue how to counter melee attacks. They didn't realise that raising your gun makes you defenseless against physical attacks. So they ran around with their guns raised and got grabbed every 5 seconds.

 

[trejo]

RE4 absolutely, 100%, no doubt about it, has tank controls. What the hell is wrong with some of you people.

It's also still one of the greatest games ever made.

 

[Prime crotch]

To be fair, the issue is that RE6 adds a second layer to QTEs.

Wiggle/WASD tapping. Same as other games.

Followed by, sometimes, a "hit button when bar is in correct position". The purpose of this second QTE is to perform a counter-attack against the enemy who grabbed you.

However, it's bizarre that the wiggling got so much attention because all they did was try to help players by showing an icon. Same as those icons that flash when an enemy is about to melee attack you, cuing the player to counter. In RE1/2/3/4/5/etc, when the player got grabbed, they still had to wiggle the stick or press a button rapidly to break free. I guess the difference is that those games didn't have leaping enemies or enemy attack countering that is thinly explained and a fair few players struggle to grasp.

I remember the Giant Bomb guys who played RE6 had no clue how to counter melee attacks. They didn't realise that raising your gun makes you defenseless against physical attacks. So they ran around with their guns raised and got grabbed every 5 seconds.

Capcom also screwed up by not communicating well enough all of RE6's intricacies, the timed context button prompts, for instance, all look very similar and indistinguishable at times.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

To be fair, the issue is that RE6 adds a second layer to QTEs.

Wiggle/WASD tapping. Same as other games.

Followed by, sometimes, a "hit button when bar is in correct position". The purpose of this second QTE is to perform a counter-attack against the enemy who grabbed you.

However, it's bizarre that the wiggling got so much attention because all they did was try to help players by showing an icon. Same as those icons that flash when an enemy is about to melee attack you, cuing the player to counter. In RE1/2/3/4/5/etc, when the player got grabbed, they still had to wiggle the stick or press a button rapidly to break free. I guess the difference is that those games didn't have leaping enemies or enemy attack countering that is thinly explained and a fair few players struggle to grasp.

I remember the Giant Bomb guys who played RE6 had no clue how to counter melee attacks. They didn't realise that raising your gun makes you defenseless against physical attacks. So they ran around with their guns raised and got grabbed every 5 seconds.

This reminds me of something...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344667

RE6 is a game that's a lot better once you know how to deal with it, which won't be your first run.

 

[Duallusion]

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I played RE4 when it first came out for the GC and I adored it. I spent the whole weekend playing it and loved every second of it. Fast-forward 12 years and I'm playing it on Steam with the Xbox One Elite controller and I can't figure any of the shit out. The controls are so beyond atrocious. Shooting is a mess, moving around sucks, and the button mapping is dumb as hell. RT to aim? A to shoot? How did I play that game so many years ago?

And, yes, RE4 has tank controls.

 

[Magnus]

RE4 basically does have tank controls just from an over the shoulder perspective.

Yeah, this. What's with all the people saying otherwise in the thread? First page is hilarious.

It's not just tank controls if it's a fixed perspective camera. Tank controls refers to having to stop to draw and aim, without a separate stick for aiming.

 

[Randam]

Tomb Raider for PS1 the camera is the reference for movements... so it is not tank controls... the camera follow the view of your characters making the movement not looks like a tank.

Tank controls is that awkward moment when you press forward and the character go to where he is looking at even if it means to right or back.

If the camera changes with the view point is not tank controls... it is only tank controls if the camera is fixed.

Guys, come on.

A tank controls like a tank. No matter if you are sitting in it, or when you stand behind it.

Tank controls refers to having to stop to draw and aim, without a separate stick for aiming.

No. Tanks can aim while moving and they always could.
Tanks can't strafe to the side. That's all.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I didn't like RE4 because of the controls, I really tried to force myself to enjoy the game but I just couldn't. RE6 was bloated as hell but at least it controlled well so I enjoyed it much more.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I wonder if the confusion is coming from people that assume that the characters are inside of a tank (like a fish tank), and you're observing them running around or something?

I dunno. I legitimately can't grasp what people think "tank controls" could mean besides "controls like a tank."

 

[Dead Man Typing]

This poor thread.

I wouldn't enjoy the RE4 controls in most games. They are horribly limiting.
But they're also perfect for RE4 and RE5.

One day someone will make another game designed around the RE4 Wii Edition controls. You could sort of do it with the joycon motion aiming but it wouldn't be the same. Need a new super accurate pointing device in the future.

 

[Z O N E]

Just adding a visual reference to your post.

https://youtu.be/VNbSymXvZLY

For people who still aren't getting it, here are some visuals.

-This is what happens when you press Left in a game with tank controls:
https://fat.gfycat.com/SmugEnormousBlackandtancoonhound.webm

-This is what happens when you press Left in a game without tank controls:
https://fat.gfycat.com/DishonestChubbyAmericancreamdraft.webm

This. ^

Whoever said they're not tank controls clearly don't know what tank controls actually are.

 

[Aizo]

More shockingly, how do so many people have absolutely no clue what an isometric perspective is?

Totally right. I saw someone mention it in another post and parroted it without thinking. I meant to say static camera angles.

 

[Char Aznable]

*This* doesn't make sense.

THIS the reason, i up to this date i'm unable to play older RE titles

 

[potatohead]

*This* doesn't make sense.

This is the shitty regular non-tank scheme. You can't turn that fast with the tank scheme.

THIS the reason, i up to this date i'm unable to play older RE titles

The above gifs are versions of RE controls made for players like you so it plays like a regular action adventure where all the controls are camera relative and you can also spin around way faster.

And it's really only your loss to miss out on games like these.

 

[Paragon]

THIS the reason, i up to this date i'm unable to play older RE titles

Those are examples of the new camera-relative controls ("2D" in Silent Hill games), not the classic character-relative 'tank' controls. ("3D" in Silent Hill games)
Character-relative controls are how those games are meant to be played, because holding up always makes your character run forward instead of running "up" on the screen, which changes the direction you're moving when the camera changes.
By default the 'HD' releases use camera-relative controls when using the analog stick, and character-relative controls when using the d-pad - though there is an option to lock it to character-relative controls when using the analog stick.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

Those are examples of the new camera-relative controls ("2D" in Silent Hill games), not the classic character-relative 'tank' controls. ("3D" in Silent Hill games)
Character-relative controls are how those games are meant to be played, because holding up always makes your character run forward instead of running "up" on the screen, which changes the direction you're moving when the camera changes.

You keep running in a straight line until you release the analogue stick. Essentially the relative directions stay locked while you are moving. So if you hold UP to run forward, and the camera angle changes, you'll keep running in the direction you were going. I don't know whether it invented this, but RE2 N64 by Angel Studios was the first RE title with this system.

 

[encephalon]

Leon still controls like an "rc car," which is the Japanese term for the controls in the original games. RE4 isn't even the first game to take the control method and put the camera behind the player's back. Siren did it a year or so earlier.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

Conker's Bad Fur Day was released four years before RE4 and let you do this.

 

[gelf]

You keep running in a straight line until you release the analogue stick. Essentially the relative directions stay locked while you are moving. So if you hold UP to run forward, and the camera angle changes, you'll keep running in the direction you were going. I don't know whether it invented this, but RE2 N64 by Angel Studios was the first RE title with this system.

I always hated that system with fixed cameras because when I need to change direction after a camera change I get really confused. Suddenly I'm doing something like holding left to go up and if say I want to change to go down my mind wants me to press right instead of down because it's the opposite of what I'm currently holding. It fucks with my mind in a way that tank style up is always forwards doesn't.

 

[Paragon]

You keep running in a straight line until you release the analogue stick. Essentially the relative directions stay locked while you are moving. So if you hold UP to run forward, and the camera angle changes, you'll keep running in the direction you were going. I don't know whether it invented this, but RE2 N64 by Angel Studios was the first RE title with this system.

Well yes, it does that until you make any slight corrections to your movement - which is the problem.
I remember seeing it happen a lot in some areas of the game in the Giant Bomb Quick Looks for the HD re-releases for example - not just some GIFs intentionally trying to make it look bad.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

Well yes, it does that until you make any slight corrections to your movement - which is the problem.
I remember seeing it happen a lot in some areas of the game in the Giant Bomb Quick Looks for the HD re-releases for example - not just some GIFs intentionally trying to make it look bad.

I'd argue that has more to do with people unfamilar with the system's quirks. There is no perfect solution, TBH. But with practice, this one works fine enough. The root cause of the issues is sudden camera angle changes instead of organic camera movement. In some early RE titles, you could have 3/4 camera angles for a single room.

Also, if you make "slight" corrections to movement, you'll keep moving in the same direction, but change angle slightly.

If you rotate the stick to the "correct" position in response to a camera angle change, which is quite obviously not what you're supposed to do, your character won't respond as expected. You have to release the stick to reset the coordinates.

 

[Paragon]

I'd argue that has more to do with people unfamilar with the system's quirks. There is no perfect solution, TBH. But with practice, this one works fine enough. The root cause of the issues is sudden camera angle changes instead of organic camera movement. In some early RE titles, you could have 3/4 camera angles for a single room.

I don't think there's anything wrong with what the Resident Evil games do with the camera angles if you're using character-relative movement. (as designed) It only becomes a problem with camera-relative movement.
The dramatic camera angles are part of what makes the games interesting.
Here's a short example from the Giant Bomb video. (09:17) That sort of thing doesn't happen with 'tank' controls.
I do wonder if some of the problem that people have with 'tank' controls is not actually the control scheme, but that they have difficulty visualizing the 3D space they're in when the camera changes. Some people seem to get hopelessly lost because they don't or can't internalize the mansion layout for example.

 

[Dr. Carroll]

The dramatic camera angles are part of what makes the games interesting.

You can have dramatic camera angles without locking the camera in place and cutting between cameras. See Fear Effect 2, for example. Or some sections of Parasite Eve II, with the moving camera.

Here's a short example from the Giant Bomb video. (09:17) That sort of thing doesn't happen with 'tank' controls.

While this is true, the problem here is the player jerking the stick in various directions trying to compensate instead of letting go of the stick, resetting the relative coordinates, and then moving.

I do wonder if some of the problem that people have with 'tank' controls is not actually the control scheme, but that they have difficulty visualizing the 3D space they're in when the camera changes. Some people seem to get hopelessly lost because they don't or can't internalize the mansion layout for example.

That's part of it, but they also suck for general 3D movement, particularly when combat is involved. Fear Effect with tank controls is "kill me now" grade terrible. The second game added 3D controls, which was a godsend.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

I think the biggest reason I don't like them is because they don't make sense for a character, realistically. Like in this type of situation, who wouldn't move and reload at the same time? Why can't he move and shoot? Why can't the man strafe? Is he incapable? I mean I get the point that the controls create the tension and whatnot but it just doesn't make sense. When I put that aside, though, I can enjoy it. Now if I'm actually operating a tank in a game, I'm cool with it.

This is a really narrow minded approach to game design. Controls in a video game dont need to reflect reality. If it's fun, if it suits the mood, if it achieves what it sets out to than it's valid.

 

[Keihart]

But RE4 doesn't have tank controls OP, that's all the RE before it.

Edit: nvm, beated a thousand times lol

 

[Raiden]

The game is designed around these controls, having the ability to strafe and shoot would kill the gameplay.

 

[loganclaws]

But RE4 doesn't have tank controls OP, that's all the RE before it.

Edit: nvm, beated a thousand times lol

Wow I feel like reaching out through the internet and punching the next person who says RE4 doesn't have tank controls.

 

[Keihart]

Wow I feel like reaching out through the internet and punching the next person who says RE4 doesn't have tank controls.

But it doesn't , "tank controls" is not a description but a name given to a scheme of controls, wich are usually asociated with classic survival horror games . If OP thinks RE4 is an example of what "tank controls" are, he is mistaken.

Is like saying that a point and click game has to be explicitly about just point and clicking when the reality is that the term was born to define a specific style of games, it's not just describing the game in question.

So yeah, OP has not experienced "tank controls" but tank like controls.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Wow I feel like reaching out through the internet and punching the next person who says RE4 doesn't have tank controls.

Remember RE5 DLC with Chris and Jill you can activate a mode that plays like the classic RE games? That's tank control. The default RE 5 control is RE4 based, not tank control

 

[Nemon]

But it doesn't , "tank controls" is not a description but a name given to a scheme of controls, wich are usually asociated with classic survival horror games . If OP thinks RE4 is an example of what "tank controls" are, he is mistaken.

Is like saying that a point and click game has to be explicitly about just point and clicking when the reality is that the term was born to define a specific style of games, it's not just describing the game in question.

So yeah, OP has not experienced "tank controls" but tank like controls.

Yes. It is a name given to a scheme of controls. RE4 controls exactly the same as the old RE:s with a new camera perspective and some new aiming mechanics.
Its tank controls. Damn, i thought this was this was known.

 

[loganclaws]

Yes. It is a name given to a scheme of controls. RE4 controls exactly the same as the old RE:s with a new camera perspective and some new aiming mechanics.
Its tank controls. Damn, i thought this was this was known.

Thank you! Holy shit guys it's not rocket science. RE4 controls exactly like the first Resident Evil but the camera is fixed behind the shoulder. Just stop.

The camera location doesn't define the control scheme.

 

[c0Zm1c]

But it doesn't , "tank controls" is not a description but a name given to a scheme of controls, wich are usually asociated with classic survival horror games . If OP thinks RE4 is an example of what "tank controls" are, he is mistaken.

Is like saying that a point and click game has to be explicitly about just point and clicking when the reality is that the term was born to define a specific style of games, it's not just describing the game in question.

So yeah, OP has not experienced "tank controls" but tank like controls.

It's precisely a description, otherwise why would it even be called "tank controls"? It describes how the character moves, alike a tank. So RE4 does indeed have tank controls.

 

[Necron]

Conker's Bad Fur Day was released four years before RE4 and let you do this.

Conker's Bad Fur Day was way ahead of its time. Shame it came out at the very end of the N64's life cycle. Copies of that game are going for insane prices nowadays.

 

[tesqui]

Conker's Bad Fur Day was released four years before RE4 and let you do this.

I have to wonder if someone on the RE team got the idea from this game. It's just too similar to be a coincidence.

 

[Drain You]

RE4 has tank controls. The Japanese version even has classic camera angles at one point.

Sorry to quote a post all the way from the second page, but does anyone know what this means? I tried looking it up and can't seem to find anything about differences like that between the Japanese version and others. Only thing I can think of is maybe he's thinking of the prerelease scrapped versions of Re4?

Also I really thought I was taking crazy pills when yall said Re4 didn't have tank controls.

 

[milkham]

Sorry to quote a post all the way from the second page, but does anyone know what this means? I tried looking it up and can't seem to find anything about differences like that between the Japanese version and others. Only thing I can think of is maybe he's thinking of the prerelease scrapped versions of Re4?

Also I really thought I was taking crazy pills when yall said Re4 didn't have tank controls.

from another post in the thread, someone said the parts where you control Ashley have fixed camera angles in the japanese version.

 

[Bookman]

It's been nine pages with the exact same posts. Soon there will be someone saying that re4 dosent have tank controls and it will all start again. Is there any way to define exactly what tank controls are? Can we vote? And does it really matter in this specific thread? I mean if you would argue that there has to be a certain camera angle for it to be called tank controls you are just nitpicking and I think you understand what op means.


And also: off course its tank controls. Are you nuts? Have you played it?

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

This is the shitty regular non-tank scheme. You can't turn that fast with the tank scheme.

I know, that was my point. Read the post I made the response to.

 

[Semajer]

Sorry to quote a post all the way from the second page, but does anyone know what this means? I tried looking it up and can't seem to find anything about differences like that between the Japanese version and others. Only thing I can think of is maybe he's thinking of the prerelease scrapped versions of Re4?

Also I really thought I was taking crazy pills when yall said Re4 didn't have tank controls.

In the Japanese versions of RE4 the section where you control Ashley has classic camera angles. You can see it in this video from 2:22: https://youtu.be/EvhxuOekFvQ?t=142

IIRC the Japanese version has no decapitations and less tit wobble compared to the non-German international releases.

 

[Ascheroth]

It's been nine pages with the exact same posts. Soon there will be someone saying that re4 dosent have tank controls and it will all start again. Is there any way to define exactly what tank controls are? Can we vote? And does it really matter in this specific thread? I mean if you would argue that there has to be a certain camera angle for it to be called tank controls you are just nitpicking and I think you understand what op means.


And also: off course its tank controls. Are you nuts? Have you played it?

Goddamnit gaf, it's not that hard

How this debate is still going boggles my mind.

 

[Drain You]

from another post in the thread, someone said the parts where you control Ashley have fixed camera angles in the japanese version.

In the Japanese versions of RE4 the section where you control Ashley has classic camera angles. You can see it in this video from 2:22: https://youtu.be/EvhxuOekFvQ?t=142

IIRC the Japanese version has no decapitations and less tit wobble compared to the non-German international releases.

Very interesting! Thank you both, my favorite game of all time and I never knew. Might have to see how much a JP copy is going for on Ebay now.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

The camera difference during Ashley's section is pretty weird nowadays. Like, back then they probably changed it due to player feedback, but you'd think at one point they'd either decide on one camera setting across all regions for all future releases, or, better yet, they let you switch between fixed and behind-the-shoulder cam at the press of a button.

But to still keep it strictly seperated between Japan (Classic RE camera) and the rest of the world with every new release is pretty weird.

 

[Semajer]

The camera difference during Ashley's section is pretty weird nowadays. Like, back then they probably changed it due to player feedback, but you'd think at one point they'd either decide on one camera setting across all regions for all future releases, or, better yet, they let you switch between fixed and behind-the-shoulder cam at the press of a button.

But to still keep it strictly seperated between Japan (Classic RE camera) and the rest of the world with every new release is pretty weird.

I'm hoping the HD project will be able to implement something like this.

 

[Bluemongoose]

Alright so basically I understand what the other peeps are saying.

When I refer to tank controls I generally mean top down where forward is forward and can mean up/down/left/right instead of just face forward, using the isometric view.

But I see how you mean third person with tank controls. The perspective change makes the controls feel much different than what I would say are the traditional tank controls using an isometric view.

Same, but different. Definitely very different experiences even if both are technically tank style.

I concur, sir.

 

[ghostjoke]

Still going?

*twitch*

 

[Wolf Akela]

I'm hoping the HD project will be able to implement something like this.

This was exactly what they were going to do with RE4 initially, but they settled for what we have. The constant camera angle change prolly didn't feel good over time. You can see this in older RE4 vids (eg hookman)